It was a nice run, Jokic

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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#241 » by Rubios » Sat Nov 8, 2025 11:42 pm

prime1time wrote:Teams that play PnR offense with 3-point shooters spacing the floor and a rim runner and let guys just accumulate a ton of stats like Giannis and Doncic, put up more advance stats but Wemby is a player that must be double teamed. And he's commanding double teams all over the floor. I might be in the minority but I'd rather have a player that must be double teamed than a PnR maestros like Doncic and Giannis. For one their stats are inflated and two, the offenses isn't as efffective in the playoffs. Wemby commanding double teams and building an offensive scheme will translate in the playoffs.

This is the same reason I'd rather have prime Shaq than Giannis. Or Prime Hakeem than Doncic. Yeah Giannis and Doncic have better stats, but the ability to catch the ball and require a double team to be stopped. Yeah, ability to whip the ball for an open 3 or throw a lob or get an open floater/easy layup looks nice but it's an inefficient way to play basketball.


Giannis won a ring. Was LeBron-esque without Middleton losing in 7 vs the Celtics the following year. Then, injury, another injury, until last season's 1st round loss vs Pacers playing probably his best series so far. Bucks were just that bad, but he put a masterpiece.

Doncic took the '22 Mavs to the WCF. Every team, every play, doubles on Luka.
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#242 » by HotRocks34 » Sat Nov 8, 2025 11:53 pm

Jokic isn't double teamed?

If Jokic were single teamed, he would annihilate the league.

A couple of years ago Philly used PJ Tucker vs Jokic with Embiid guarding the rim and the variety of gimmick defenses he's faced has only grown since then.

Wemby is just starting to encounter gimmick defenses.

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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#243 » by guynumber45 » Sun Nov 9, 2025 12:29 am

Outside of the first game of the season where Jokic decided to uncharacteristically chuck up 13 3s, Big Jok has been averaging 25/12/13 on 78% TS. The dude is ridiculous.

Wemby is on his way to take the throne, but he's still got a ways to go on offense before that happens
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#244 » by Hook_Em » Sun Nov 9, 2025 4:43 am

Best player on the planet still.
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#245 » by AleksandarN » Sun Nov 9, 2025 4:48 am

guynumber45 wrote:Outside of the first game of the season where Jokic decided to uncharacteristically chuck up 13 3s, Big Jok has been averaging 25/12/13 on 78% TS. The dude is ridiculous.

Wemby is on his way to take the throne, but he's still got a ways to go on offense before that happens


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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#246 » by prime1time » Sun Nov 9, 2025 7:43 am

Duke4life831 wrote:Havent watched any Denver games this year yet, so this is straight up box score lurking. But my god Jokic is 1st in the NBA in rebounds per game, assists per game (leading by almost 2 assists per game) and hes not even top 10 in turnovers, hell he's barely top 50 in turnovers (47th). He's 1st in TS% when you compare him against other high volume scorers. And on top of all of that, he's putting up those ridiculous offensive numbers without even being top 30 in the league when it comes to Time Per Possession.

He's the most complete offensive player to ever play the game. And he has shown zero signs of slowing down, if anything he is getting better each year. And there is nothing about his game that shouldnt age very well. Nothing about his game relies on any kind of vertical athleticism or quick burst athleticism. If you sat there and told me right now that say at the age of 36 he will be just as good as when he was say 28, I wouldnt second guess that at all.

The funny thing is, Wemby has been viewed as the guy that is going to be the example for "player X just was born at the wrong time because he has to play when Wemby played." While in reality, we could end up saying, "Wemby got real unlucky because he came around during prime Jokic, that's just some bad luck."

Jokic fans live in their own bubble. Jokic has only won one championship. And as I've broken down before unlike every other top 15/20 player he really doesn't make conference finals. Conversations about offense are tailor made for Jokic because he hides on defense. Jokic lost to SGA last year and - checks notes - the Anthony Edwards/Rudy Gobert T-Wolves 2 years ago. Jokic benefited from an all time easy run to the NBA finals and he plays a type of basketball that does not work in the playoffs. I like the Spurs and Wemby over the Nuggets this year and going forward it's just gioing to get worse.

And there is nothing about his game that shouldnt age very well. Nothing about his game relies on any kind of vertical athleticism or quick burst athleticism. If you sat there and told me right now that say at the age of 36 he will be just as good as when he was say 28, I wouldnt second guess that at all.

I think Jokic fans really are allergi to thinking about defense. Jokic's defense is mediocre at best now. At 36 he'll be a cone. The way to beat the Nuggets is obvious. Make Jokic play defense. Pressure the guards and force Jokic to be the primary ball handler. Force Jokic to be active every minute he's on the floor.

Eventually in the biggest moments the true Jokic comes out. A guy who relaxes and hides on defense to put up gaudy numbers on offense. If Wemby doesn't end up with more championships than Jokic I'd be stunned.
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#247 » by prime1time » Sun Nov 9, 2025 7:44 am

Hook_Em wrote:Best player on the planet still.

If he's the best player on the planet why doesn't he win more in the playoffs?
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#248 » by AleksandarN » Sun Nov 9, 2025 7:57 am

prime1time wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Havent watched any Denver games this year yet, so this is straight up box score lurking. But my god Jokic is 1st in the NBA in rebounds per game, assists per game (leading by almost 2 assists per game) and hes not even top 10 in turnovers, hell he's barely top 50 in turnovers (47th). He's 1st in TS% when you compare him against other high volume scorers. And on top of all of that, he's putting up those ridiculous offensive numbers without even being top 30 in the league when it comes to Time Per Possession.

He's the most complete offensive player to ever play the game. And he has shown zero signs of slowing down, if anything he is getting better each year. And there is nothing about his game that shouldnt age very well. Nothing about his game relies on any kind of vertical athleticism or quick burst athleticism. If you sat there and told me right now that say at the age of 36 he will be just as good as when he was say 28, I wouldnt second guess that at all.

The funny thing is, Wemby has been viewed as the guy that is going to be the example for "player X just was born at the wrong time because he has to play when Wemby played." While in reality, we could end up saying, "Wemby got real unlucky because he came around during prime Jokic, that's just some bad luck."

Jokic fans live in their own bubble. Jokic has only won one championship. And as I've broken down before unlike every other top 15/20 player he really doesn't make conference finals. Conversations about offense are tailor made for Jokic because he hides on defense. Jokic lost to SGA last year and - checks notes - the Anthony Edwards/Rudy Gobert T-Wolves 2 years ago. Jokic benefited from an all time easy run to the NBA finals and he plays a type of basketball that does not work in the playoffs. I like the Spurs and Wemby over the Nuggets this year and going forward it's just gioing to get worse.

And there is nothing about his game that shouldnt age very well. Nothing about his game relies on any kind of vertical athleticism or quick burst athleticism. If you sat there and told me right now that say at the age of 36 he will be just as good as when he was say 28, I wouldnt second guess that at all.

I think Jokic fans really are allergi to thinking about defense. Jokic's defense is mediocre at best now. At 36 he'll be a cone. The way to beat the Nuggets is obvious. Make Jokic play defense. Pressure the guards and force Jokic to be the primary ball handler. Force Jokic to be active every minute he's on the floor.

Eventually in the biggest moments the true Jokic comes out. A guy who relaxes and hides on defense to put up gaudy numbers on offense. If Wemby doesn't end up with more championships than Jokic I'd be stunned.

You like to compare jokic to the top 15 players of all time. Yet Jokic has never had the supporting cast like the rest of the top 15 players of all time. Heck he hasn’t had an all NBA defensive player on his team nor has he had a current Allstar player on his team. Kobe has Shaq and vice versa. Magic had Kareem. Curry had KD Draymond Green. Lebron had how many great players. Context is lacking with your arguments
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#249 » by CodeBreaker » Sun Nov 9, 2025 8:44 am

Jokic is top 3 ever
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#250 » by KokoKaizer » Sun Nov 9, 2025 9:10 am

prime1time wrote:
Hook_Em wrote:Best player on the planet still.

If he's the best player on the planet why doesn't he win more in the playoffs?


Maybe, just maybe, 'cause it's a team sport ?
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#251 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Sun Nov 9, 2025 10:38 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Havent watched any Denver games this year yet, so this is straight up box score lurking. But my god Jokic is 1st in the NBA in rebounds per game, assists per game (leading by almost 2 assists per game) and hes not even top 10 in turnovers, hell he's barely top 50 in turnovers (47th). He's 1st in TS% when you compare him against other high volume scorers. And on top of all of that, he's putting up those ridiculous offensive numbers without even being top 30 in the league when it comes to Time Per Possession.

He's the most complete offensive player to ever play the game. And he has shown zero signs of slowing down, if anything he is getting better each year. And there is nothing about his game that shouldnt age very well. Nothing about his game relies on any kind of vertical athleticism or quick burst athleticism. If you sat there and told me right now that say at the age of 36 he will be just as good as when he was say 28, I wouldnt second guess that at all.

The funny thing is, Wemby has been viewed as the guy that is going to be the example for "player X just was born at the wrong time because he has to play when Wemby played." While in reality, we could end up saying, "Wemby got real unlucky because he came around during prime Jokic, that's just some bad luck."


Jokic shooting .966 from 0-3 is a pretty amazing stat too.

and at least for one of those misses he took the offensive rebound
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#252 » by nomansland » Sun Nov 9, 2025 10:58 am

I'm not sure how many exactly but a lot, if not most of his triple doubles this season have happened in 3 quarters. Insane.
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#253 » by HotRocks34 » Sun Nov 9, 2025 11:05 am

Let's take a look at the latest xRAPM data. I think this is basically the old ESPN RPM calculation or something similar.

Total xRAPM
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Offense xRAPM
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Defense xRAPM (lower # better)
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Jokic leads in Total and Offense, and is 6th in the league in Defense.

Wemby is tops in defense and 6th in Total.

Wemby's Defense is about twice that of Jokic, but Jokic's Offense is about five times that of Wemby.
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#254 » by HotRocks34 » Sun Nov 9, 2025 11:27 am

Wemby is out of the top 5 in the BBREF MVP tracker and is now behind Austin Reaves and Tyrese Maxey.

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Wemby can keep working on his offense to improve his overall impact. He looked good at the start of the year but yesterday he seemed to regress to last season's mode in taking 9 threes of his 19 FGA. Obviously the talent is there but it takes time to develop. And Fox coming back could take some offensive focus away from Wemby, too.
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#255 » by BelgradeNugget » Sun Nov 9, 2025 11:37 am

It was is a nice run, Jokic
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#256 » by HotRocks34 » Sun Nov 9, 2025 11:38 am

Wemby has hit a bit of a rough patch while Jokic is thriving at the moment.

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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#257 » by -Luke- » Today 6:20 am

Jokic said: "Hold my Kruskovac!"
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#258 » by bkkrh » Today 6:31 am

-Luke- wrote:Jokic said: "Hold my Kruskovac!"


Think he thought "Well 1st place in Assists and Rebounds, now lets start to catch up to Giannis :lol: ."
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#259 » by Sgt Major » Today 9:42 am

Great thread
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Re: It was a nice run, Jokic 

Post#260 » by Hans1984 » Today 9:49 am

Lol it's still Jokics turn.
Wemby got a long way to go.

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