Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Brinbe]

we just gotta hope scottie is able to to actually stay healthy and available. in past seasons everytime he would go on a nice run and look like he's figuring things out he'd run into one of his patented hand or leg injuries which would unfortunately throw him off again. but aside from the super-hot shooting from 3 he isn't doing anything that isn't replicable over the long-term. last season was all about pushing his comfort zone in a developmental season and now they're serious about winning so they're dialing in on the things he does well.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think he should be optimized. His strength is adaptability, so efficiency isn't the be all and end all to the team's success. It's only important if he's soaking up a lot of possessions trying to self-create. We know the 3PT% will drop. He will level out. He just can't go back to taking awful shots.

All-star is definitely on the table considering his defensive responsibilities and profile within the league.

[tsherkin]

I don't think he should be optimized. His strength is adaptability, so efficiency isn't the be all and end all to the team's success. It's only important if he's soaking up a lot of possessions trying to self-create. We know the 3PT% will drop. He will level out. He just can't go back to taking awful shots.

All-star is definitely on the table considering his defensive responsibilities and profile within the league.

I think he definitely needs to be optimized to a certain extent, because he isn't good enough to produce points at an acceptable level otherwise. His versatility is less so offensive and more so in the breadth of his contribution through rebounding and defense, which has nothing to do with whether or not he is optimized on O.

Shot selection is key, but so is all this passing support he's been receiving and ensuring he doesn't do too much self-creation. And the middle game should rebound a little as the season wears on; he's got a good 4 years of establishing that he's better than this in those spaces.

[everdiso]

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[Appostis]

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Way way waaaaay too early to say if it's a real important or just data noise..

But if it's real.. team is damn close to being a real post season threat.

IQ being 80% of the player he's paid to be and a couple of the young guys making a jump and the team is off to the races.

[Tha Cynic]

Who knows how long it will last but unsurprisingly Barnes has been carrying this team so far this season. Most of the rest of the team has largely been a negative for most of this season other than RJ and Shead.

Just let the dude play his game. He’s the last person who you need to tell to limit things.

[HiJiNX]

Who knows how long it will last but unsurprisingly Barnes has been carrying this team so far this season. Most of the rest of the team has largely been a negative for most of this season other than RJ and Shead.

Just let the dude play his game. He’s the last person who you need to tell to limit things.

I agree with you.

I think the issue is that what Barnes does well is hard to track in the stat sheet. There’s no stat that really measures defensive disruptiveness and getting the ball up the court quickly to make sure the opposing defence can’t set itself up. It’s really the little things with him. He’s not gonna be a scintillating scorer on a lot of nights, but giving him the ball allows him to lead and create advantages with his facilitating. And I think a lot of fans simply see some awkward shot attempts and allow that to be their impression of him instead of seeing all of the little things that add up to overall impact when he’s involved and allowed to be the engine.

[PushDaRock]

Who knows how long it will last but unsurprisingly Barnes has been carrying this team so far this season. Most of the rest of the team has largely been a negative for most of this season other than RJ and Shead.

Just let the dude play his game. He’s the last person who you need to tell to limit things.

lol what? A lot of guys have been really good for us. Ingram is at 61 TS% and soaking up all the difficult shots when things get bogged down in the half court. Gradey also at 61 TS% and one of the best NRTG's on the team. Mamu has been incredible for us so far. RJ and Shead have been really good as well.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Currently +12 DFG, which is awful at volume and still bad at +8 over the 4 game win streak. His impact on court won't show up in tangible net positives until that normalizes. My guess is this is the end result of being noisy active on defense and not being in great position to create misses, as well as the early extreme size mismatches (especially without Poeltl).

I touched on this in another thread, but on offense he is not really the kind of player that should be optimized to efficiency. He's a networker on offense, not a hub, not a finisher. Doing a little of everything is messy, but imo it helps destabilize the opposition's gameplan. A good example is him just randomly deciding to post-up Porzingis and nailing that hook over him. It was such a low percentage shot, but I felt like it was a key 'stop the bleeding' moment for both him and the team.

[tsherkin]

I think the issue is that what Barnes does well is hard to track in the stat sheet. There’s no stat that really measures defensive disruptiveness and getting the ball up the court quickly to make sure the opposing defence can’t set itself up.

There's some of that. There is a collection of little defensive stats which tend to help paint him in a better light, though I agree, I think the eye test is his best friend at the moment. He does a lot of small things which are good and aren't traditionally tracked in a box score.

He advances the ball upcourt off a DRB well, either with a quick dribble or a pass. And he seems to be moving well. He also seems to be picking his spots better, though I wish he'd have been a little more aggressive in the first half against the Hawks.

I think we're all squared away that he isn't a transcendent scorer, and that's fine, though we can hope some of this 3pt improvement will carry forward. If he can be a league-average efficiency guy on 18 ppg with his defense and his connecting passing, he becomes a very, very valuable part of our team. I've generally liked the way he's played so far this year, especially before the Hawks game.

Looking forward to the Sixers game to see how he bounces back.

[Raps in 4]

Who knows how long it will last but unsurprisingly Barnes has been carrying this team so far this season. Most of the rest of the team has largely been a negative for most of this season other than RJ and Shead.

Just let the dude play his game. He’s the last person who you need to tell to limit things.

I agree with you.

I think the issue is that what Barnes does well is hard to track in the stat sheet. There’s no stat that really measures defensive disruptiveness and getting the ball up the court quickly to make sure the opposing defence can’t set itself up. It’s really the little things with him. He’s not gonna be a scintillating scorer on a lot of nights, but giving him the ball allows him to lead and create advantages with his facilitating. And I think a lot of fans simply see some awkward shot attempts and allow that to be their impression of him instead of seeing all of the little things that add up to overall impact when he’s involved and allowed to be the engine.

Impact metrics capture that stuff reasonably well. Lowry was consistently a top-15 player according to RPM/RAPM while counting stats made him out to be a bum.

[HiJiNX]

I think the issue is that what Barnes does well is hard to track in the stat sheet. There’s no stat that really measures defensive disruptiveness and getting the ball up the court quickly to make sure the opposing defence can’t set itself up.

There's some of that. There is a collection of little defensive stats which tend to help paint him in a better light, though I agree, I think the eye test is his best friend at the moment. He does a lot of small things which are good and aren't traditionally tracked in a box score.

He advances the ball upcourt off a DRB well, either with a quick dribble or a pass. And he seems to be moving well. He also seems to be picking his spots better, though I wish he'd have been a little more aggressive in the first half against the Hawks.

I think we're all squared away that he isn't a transcendent scorer, and that's fine, though we can hope some of this 3pt improvement will carry forward. If he can be a league-average efficiency guy on 18 ppg with his defense and his connecting passing, he becomes a very, very valuable part of our team. I've generally liked the way he's played so far this year, especially before the Hawks game.

Looking forward to the Sixers game to see how he bounces back.

Haha I think the eye test has always been his best friend. There probably isn’t a lot statistically that indicates he’s the best player on what appears to be a pretty good team so far, yet when you watch you can see how he changes momentum in our favour just by…being active or whatever. Such an interesting player.

[tsherkin]

Haha I think the eye test has always been his best friend. There probably isn’t a lot statistically that indicates he’s the best player on what appears to be a pretty good team so far, yet when you watch you can see how he changes momentum in our favour just by…being active or whatever. Such an interesting player.

And lo, he was pretty good in the Sixers game. Didn't light things up like a beast, but hit some timely shots, played some excellent defense. We choked the game away like punks, but he played reasonably well. Fairly absent in the 4th when we really needed him, but pretty good through 3. And tbf, BI and Gradey sucked a lot of ass in the 4th as well, and RJ didn't light it up either, so that wasn't all on Scottie.

He still wasn't super assertive, but he had some good plays on either end. It was definitely a lot better than the Atlanta game.

He is an interesting player, as you say. I think we are all clear at this stage that he isn't That Guy (TM) as a scorer, but he does a lot of different things which are useful. He's kind of like... I want to say he's kind of like a bridge between Iggy and Draymond, you know?

[anotherhomer]

Haha I think the eye test has always been his best friend. There probably isn’t a lot statistically that indicates he’s the best player on what appears to be a pretty good team so far, yet when you watch you can see how he changes momentum in our favour just by…being active or whatever. Such an interesting player.

And lo, he was pretty good in the Sixers game. Didn't light things up like a beast, but hit some timely shots, played some excellent defense. We choked the game away like punks, but he played reasonably well. Fairly absent in the 4th when we really needed him, but pretty good through 3. And tbf, BI and Gradey sucked a lot of ass in the 4th as well, and RJ didn't light it up either, so that wasn't all on Scottie.

He still wasn't super assertive, but he had some good plays on either end. It was definitely a lot better than the Atlanta game.

He is an interesting player, as you say. I think we are all clear at this stage that he isn't That Guy (TM) as a scorer, but he does a lot of different things which are useful. He's kind of like... I want to say he's kind of like a bridge between Iggy and Draymond, you know?

he's a kyle lowry type player....can impact the game in a lot of ways.....
not an all-star but good player

[tsherkin]

he's a kyle lowry type player....can impact the game in a lot of ways.....
not an all-star but good player

Lowry was a lot better offensively, was a 6-time consecutive All-Star and made an All-NBA 3rd Team.

I'd LOVE if Scottie could get himself to that level of play, that level of consistency. Lowry was a bulldog; you never questioned his effort, or if he was locked in. Scottie, his focus drifts, his aggression ebbs and flows seemingly at random... I don't really see a Lowry comparison.

But Scottie's good. When he's locked in, he's absolutely an All-Star-level player. We'll see what he looks like as the season wears on and how well he can maintain competent to good 3pt shooting (he's been great early, but we're less than 10% of the way through the season, after all). Love the defense, and I liked earlier on when he seemed to be more aggressive about using his body. He's strong af, and when he decides he wants to, he can really abuse that power quite well.

[HiJiNX]

he's a kyle lowry type player....can impact the game in a lot of ways.....
not an all-star but good player

Lowry was a lot better offensively, was a 6-time consecutive All-Star and made an All-NBA 3rd Team.

I'd LOVE if Scottie could get himself to that level of play, that level of consistency. Lowry was a bulldog; you never questioned his effort, or if he was locked in. Scottie, his focus drifts, his aggression ebbs and flows seemingly at random... I don't really see a Lowry comparison.

But Scottie's good. When he's locked in, he's absolutely an All-Star-level player. We'll see what he looks like as the season wears on and how well he can maintain competent to good 3pt shooting (he's been great early, but we're less than 10% of the way through the season, after all). Love the defense, and I liked earlier on when he seemed to be more aggressive about using his body. He's strong af, and when he decides he wants to, he can really abuse that power quite well.

The intriguing thing about Scottie is when he’s fully locked in he looks like a superstar. But you only get that for a quarter at a time, usually not in the same game and sometimes not even in the same week. If he can just bring that focus every game he becomes a very dynamic guy. He’s just a little too deferential or averse to the responsibility or…something. He’s like the ultimate rhythm player. When he’s got the flow he’s really got the flow. When he doesn’t, you can forget he’s even on the floor. Very mercurial. Hopefully like Lowry he learns consistency as he matures.

[tsherkin]

The intriguing thing about Scottie is when he’s fully locked in he looks like a superstar.

I don't know if I'd go quite that far, but he definitely looks as if his ceiling is way higher than what we can get out of him on anything resembling a consistent basis, for sure. Very dynamic, as you say. Very mercurial. Very much talented enough to be worth a little more patience, especially now that we have some of the right sort of pieces to help ease the game for him.

[James_Raptors]

He's absolutely the best player on this current roster.
Bi is a nice , as a (sometimes) tunnel vision sniper. But he's soft defender and a liability on that end of the court, He's simply not a multi-dimensional talent like Scottie.

[anotherhomer]

he's a kyle lowry type player....can impact the game in a lot of ways.....
not an all-star but good player

Lowry was a lot better offensively, was a 6-time consecutive All-Star and made an All-NBA 3rd Team.

I'd LOVE if Scottie could get himself to that level of play, that level of consistency. Lowry was a bulldog; you never questioned his effort, or if he was locked in. Scottie, his focus drifts, his aggression ebbs and flows seemingly at random... I don't really see a Lowry comparison.

But Scottie's good. When he's locked in, he's absolutely an All-Star-level player. We'll see what he looks like as the season wears on and how well he can maintain competent to good 3pt shooting (he's been great early, but we're less than 10% of the way through the season, after all). Love the defense, and I liked earlier on when he seemed to be more aggressive about using his body. He's strong af, and when he decides he wants to, he can really abuse that power quite well.

The intriguing thing about Scottie is when he’s fully locked in he looks like a superstar. But you only get that for a quarter at a time, usually not in the same game and sometimes not even in the same week. If he can just bring that focus every game he becomes a very dynamic guy. He’s just a little too deferential or averse to the responsibility or…something. He’s like the ultimate rhythm player. When he’s got the flow he’s really got the flow. When he doesn’t, you can forget he’s even on the floor. Very mercurial. Hopefully like Lowry he learns consistency as he matures.

Would agree scottie isnt at lowry level but he has more upside for sure

[faitaccompli]

Lowry was a lot better offensively, was a 6-time consecutive All-Star and made an All-NBA 3rd Team.

I'd LOVE if Scottie could get himself to that level of play, that level of consistency. Lowry was a bulldog; you never questioned his effort, or if he was locked in. Scottie, his focus drifts, his aggression ebbs and flows seemingly at random... I don't really see a Lowry comparison.

But Scottie's good. When he's locked in, he's absolutely an All-Star-level player. We'll see what he looks like as the season wears on and how well he can maintain competent to good 3pt shooting (he's been great early, but we're less than 10% of the way through the season, after all). Love the defense, and I liked earlier on when he seemed to be more aggressive about using his body. He's strong af, and when he decides he wants to, he can really abuse that power quite well.

The intriguing thing about Scottie is when he’s fully locked in he looks like a superstar. But you only get that for a quarter at a time, usually not in the same game and sometimes not even in the same week. If he can just bring that focus every game he becomes a very dynamic guy. He’s just a little too deferential or averse to the responsibility or…something. He’s like the ultimate rhythm player. When he’s got the flow he’s really got the flow. When he doesn’t, you can forget he’s even on the floor. Very mercurial. Hopefully like Lowry he learns consistency as he matures.

Would agree scottie isnt at lowry level but he has more upside for sure

Keep in mind that Lowry wasn't at this level at age 24.

We don't know what prime Scottie Barnes looks like.