2025-26 Lineup Thread -- How's it shakin out?

[doclinkin]

CJ
TJ
Bilal
George
Sarr

Bub
Cam
Middleton
Champagnie
Vuk

Puts one unrepentant gunner with each line up (TJ,Cam). One PG type. One glue guy. One vet mentor. One finesse Big. One hyperathlete.

Front line has a small ish back court but all the length up front with our 3 best defenders. High power offense in the double guard attack but a lack of rebounding which helps us in the tank stakes.

The Bmore paisans can show off their chemistry in the 2nd line. Cam surrounded by the BBIQ stars of the team. All the rebounding in this line will help us stop the bleeding if not fight back to victory. Bub gets experience running the show instead of riding shotgun next to CJ. Whitmore gets challenged to play the Bilal role of on-ball stopper against the opponents best attacker.

[nate33]

CJ
TJ
Bilal
George
Sarr

Bub
Cam
Middleton
Champagnie
Vuk

Puts one unrepentant gunner with each line up (TJ,Cam). One PG type. One glue guy. One vet mentor. One finesse Big. One hyperathlete.

Front line has a small ish back court but all the length up front with our 3 best defenders. High power offense in the double guard attack but a lack of rebounding which helps us in the tank stakes.

The Bmore paisans can show off their chemistry in the 2nd line. Cam surrounded by the BBIQ stars of the team. All the rebounding in this line will help us stop the bleeding if not fight back to victory. Bub gets experience running the show instead of riding shotgun next to CJ. Whitmore gets challenged to play the Bilal role of on-ball stopper against the opponents best attacker.

I think Kispert makes the 10-man rotation ahead of Champagnie when everyone is healthy. I think the coaches will value his smarts and off-ball gravity to help make things easier for the youngsters of offense. I realize that this will detract from the defense and rebounding, but that's a feature not a bug. It'll help the tank while not looking like we are trying to tank. Champagnie is the 11th man and gets into the rotation if any non center gets hurt.

Beyond that, I think this is more or less how things will shake out, though there is probably a competition between George and Whitmore for the 5th starter, and a competition between Bagley and Vukcevic for backup center. I agree that it makes sense for McCollum to start and Middleton to come off the bench to stabilize the 2nd unit.

[doclinkin]

I think Kispert makes the 10-man rotation ahead of Champagnie when everyone is healthy. I think the coaches will value his smarts and off-ball gravity to help make things easier for the youngsters of offense. I realize that this will detract from the defense and rebounding, but that's a feature not a bug. It'll help the tank while not looking like we are trying to tank. Champagnie is the 11th man and gets into the rotation if any non center gets hurt.

Also pumps up Kispert’s numbers if we are selling him off. That said in my head Kispert was the replacement for Middleton in the 2nd line up for nights when he needs rest. And TJ in the 1st line to keep him from wearing down given his practice habits magnified by an 82 game season.

Basically I had an 11 player rotation with Kispert as the back up gunner on deck. I think he looks worse in the rotations if the wheels fall off the defense when he’s subbed in. Likewise Middleton has to work harder and looks older if players are blowing past either/both on a switch. If they’re on the floor together I’d want them with the front line length or else it craters their perceived value. I bet.

Beyond that, I think this is more or less how things will shake out, though there is probably a competition between George and Whitmore for the 5th starter, and a competition between Bagley and Vukcevic for backup center. I agree that it makes sense for McCollum to start and Middleton to come off the bench to stabilize the 2nd unit.

With Bilal out I think George seizes a starting role as our most indispensable defender, team player, and glue guy. Given they are preaching defense first I think Kyshawn exemplifies the concept. His added size over the summer means he’s become pretty much our only real PF. Too versatile in that they’ve slotted him in 1-4 so far. With added size he may see time at 5. Keefe will find a role for him in every line.

Truth to tell if there’s competition at forward I expect it will be between Cam and Bilal. Cam will flash and excite in preseason. It might be tough for Bilal to take back the starting role.

I just expect chemistry between Bub and Cam to look good. By contrast I have doubts about the synergy between TJ and Cam. Plus CJ. Too many high usage guys at once. Dropping Cam to the 2nd line solves the problem. You just want a near even split between the 2 squads until you auction off the vets.

Plus I think Sarr plays with both lines unless TV takes a real leap forward. Marvin is a placeholder not a developmental prospect. Doesn’t need the minutes to get better and they’ve already shipped him off once. TV is an X factor. Could be good if those numbers he flashed are real. I think they play him enough to find out. If he loses games for us, so much the better.

[dckingsfan]

Maybe look at it in a different light? Games played. Are we likely to seem more than 50 games played by any of Khris Middleton, Marvin Bagley and CJ McCollum? Will Bilal and Sarr not be taking games off due to their nagging injuries? Will there not be another unexpected injury somewhere along the line.

If you look at the season and not the opening day starting lineup, this team is going to need to run at least 12 deep. Plenty of PT for Champagnie, Vuk and Cam (if Keefe so chooses).

Then the question (IMO) is does Keefe play the best players (playing at that time) or does he have different marching orders like last year?

[payitforward]

Last year, at 23, Justin Champagnie played 1350 minutes & was absolutely terrific. Posted a .601 efg% along with 10.3 rebounds per 40 minutes. By far the best numbers on the team & among the best of any small forward in the league.

You don't think there's any chance they're thinking about his development too, do you? Along w/ the other young guys?

[dobrojim]

If we want to win games, JC is probably better than
CK. But they may be thinking strategically and need
to market CK for trade. JMO. JC is making a fraction
of what CK makes. And plays more effective D.

[dckingsfan]

Last year, at 23, Justin Champagnie played 1350 minutes & was absolutely terrific. Posted a .601 efg% along with 10.3 rebounds per 40 minutes. By far the best numbers on the team & among the best of any small forward in the league.

You don't think there's any chance they're thinking about his development too, do you? Along w/ the other young guys?

Sounds like a player this FO would trade

[leswizards]

If it were up to me this is how I would handle the Wizards rotation:

First, I would pull Kris and CJ aside and tell them that they are both high priced veterans who are capable of playing better. Unfortunately, until they start playing better, their minutes might be curtailed.

Second, I would divide the Wizards into three groups. The first group would consist of Bagley, Champagnie, Sarr, Gill and Kispert. The five players in this group would all get 30 mpg. 3 of these 5 players would be on the court at all times. And for 6 minutes per game, 4 of the 5 players would be on the court. The second group would be Kris, CJ and Keyshawn. 42 minutes per game would be allocated to these 3 players to be divided based upon who is playing best that night. The final group would consist of Keyshawn (again), Malaki, Watkins, Riley, Tristan, Tre, Bilal, Cam, Bub, AJ and Sharife. 48 minutes per game would be allocated to this group. (With the exception of Keyshawn), no more than 1 player from this group would ever be on the floor at any time. Minutes will be given to those players who play well.

I doubt doing this would add any significant amount wins. However, it would make the games more competitive and add value to the experience that the young players are getting.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If it were up to me this is how I would handle the Wizards rotation:

First, I would pull Kris and CJ aside and tell them that they are both high priced veterans who are capable of playing better. Unfortunately, until they start playing better, their minutes might be curtailed.

Second, I would divide the Wizards into three groups. The first group would consist of Bagley, Champagnie, Sarr, Gill and Kispert. The five players in this group would all get 30 mpg. 3 of these 5 players would be on the court at all times. And for 6 minutes per game, 4 of the 5 players would be on the court. The second group would be Kris, CJ and Keyshawn. 42 minutes per game would be allocated to these 3 players to be divided based upon who is playing best that night. The final group would consist of Keyshawn (again), Malaki, Watkins, Riley, Tristan, Tre, Bilal, Cam, Bub, AJ and Sharife. 48 minutes per game would be allocated to this group. (With the exception of Keyshawn), no more than 1 player from this group would ever be on the floor at any time. Minutes will be given to those players who play well.

I doubt doing this would add any significant amount wins. However, it would make the games more competitive and add value to the experience that the young players are getting.

I like it !!

[nate33]

If it were up to me this is how I would handle the Wizards rotation:

First, I would pull Kris and CJ aside and tell them that they are both high priced veterans who are capable of playing better. Unfortunately, until they start playing better, their minutes might be curtailed.

Second, I would divide the Wizards into three groups. The first group would consist of Bagley, Champagnie, Sarr, Gill and Kispert. The five players in this group would all get 30 mpg. 3 of these 5 players would be on the court at all times. And for 6 minutes per game, 4 of the 5 players would be on the court. The second group would be Kris, CJ and Keyshawn. 42 minutes per game would be allocated to these 3 players to be divided based upon who is playing best that night. The final group would consist of Keyshawn (again), Malaki, Watkins, Riley, Tristan, Tre, Bilal, Cam, Bub, AJ and Sharife. 48 minutes per game would be allocated to this group. (With the exception of Keyshawn), no more than 1 player from this group would ever be on the floor at any time. Minutes will be given to those players who play well.

I doubt doing this would add any significant amount wins. However, it would make the games more competitive and add value to the experience that the young players are getting.

I don't understand the rotation.

Are you seriously giving Gill, Champagnie, Kispert and Bagley 30 minutes a game a piece? How are you even giving Bagley and Sarr 30 minutes unless you play Sarr 12 minutes a game at PF? That leaves just 36 PF minutes available. Gill takes 30 of them, leaving just 6 leftover. Champagnie takes those 6 minutes plus 24 minutes at SF, leaving only 24 total SF minutes.

Just to do our best to make it work, let's assume Kispert plays all of his 30 minutes at SG. That leaves 18 free SG minutes and 24 free SF minutes available for a total of 42 leftover SG/SF minutes available. So all of Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton will get to split just 42 total minutes. And the 48 available PG minutes are going to get split among McCollum, Carrington, Tre, AJ and Cooper.

So in a tank year where we are prioritizing developing young players, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Bilal will each get about 8 minutes a game, and Carrington, Tre and AJ will each get about 12. While at the same time, veterans like Bagley and Gill, who are obviously not part of the future, will each play 30.

[leswizards]

If it were up to me this is how I would handle the Wizards rotation:

First, I would pull Kris and CJ aside and tell them that they are both high priced veterans who are capable of playing better. Unfortunately, until they start playing better, their minutes might be curtailed.

Second, I would divide the Wizards into three groups. The first group would consist of Bagley, Champagnie, Sarr, Gill and Kispert. The five players in this group would all get 30 mpg. 3 of these 5 players would be on the court at all times. And for 6 minutes per game, 4 of the 5 players would be on the court. The second group would be Kris, CJ and Keyshawn. 42 minutes per game would be allocated to these 3 players to be divided based upon who is playing best that night. The final group would consist of Keyshawn (again), Malaki, Watkins, Riley, Tristan, Tre, Bilal, Cam, Bub, AJ and Sharife. 48 minutes per game would be allocated to this group. (With the exception of Keyshawn), no more than 1 player from this group would ever be on the floor at any time. Minutes will be given to those players who play well.

I doubt doing this would add any significant amount wins. However, it would make the games more competitive and add value to the experience that the young players are getting.

I don't understand the rotation.

Are you seriously giving Gill, Champagnie, Kispert and Bagley 30 minutes a game a piece? How are you even giving Bagley and Sarr 30 minutes unless you play Sarr 12 minutes a game at PF? That leaves just 36 PF minutes available. Gill takes 30 of them, leaving just 6 leftover. Champagnie takes those 6 minutes plus 24 minutes at SF, leaving only 24 total SF minutes.

Just to do our best to make it work, let's assume Kispert plays all of his 30 minutes at SG. That leaves 18 free SG minutes and 24 free SF minutes available for a total of 42 leftover SG/SF minutes available. So all of Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton will get to split just 42 total minutes. And the 48 available PG minutes are going to get split among McCollum, Carrington, Tre, AJ and Cooper.

So in a tank year where we are prioritizing developing young players, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Bilal will each get about 8 minutes a game, and Carrington, Tre and AJ will each get about 12. While at the same time, veterans like Bagley and Gill, who are obviously not part of the future, will each play 30.

Wizzy is wrong. You don't really get that much better with NBA minutes. You get better by doing thousands of drills in practice, watching film, lifting weights, and getting stronger and more athletic. That takes time and physical maturity.

It's important to get some on-the-court minutes just to get a sense of the speed of the game and how good the competition is, but you don't really improve in a linear relationship with minutes played. I don't think playing 3000 minutes in a season is all that much of an advantage over playing 1200. But 1200 regular rotation minutes is certainly better than 150 garbage time minutes exclusively in blowouts.

[nate33]

If it were up to me this is how I would handle the Wizards rotation:

First, I would pull Kris and CJ aside and tell them that they are both high priced veterans who are capable of playing better. Unfortunately, until they start playing better, their minutes might be curtailed.

Second, I would divide the Wizards into three groups. The first group would consist of Bagley, Champagnie, Sarr, Gill and Kispert. The five players in this group would all get 30 mpg. 3 of these 5 players would be on the court at all times. And for 6 minutes per game, 4 of the 5 players would be on the court. The second group would be Kris, CJ and Keyshawn. 42 minutes per game would be allocated to these 3 players to be divided based upon who is playing best that night. The final group would consist of Keyshawn (again), Malaki, Watkins, Riley, Tristan, Tre, Bilal, Cam, Bub, AJ and Sharife. 48 minutes per game would be allocated to this group. (With the exception of Keyshawn), no more than 1 player from this group would ever be on the floor at any time. Minutes will be given to those players who play well.

I doubt doing this would add any significant amount wins. However, it would make the games more competitive and add value to the experience that the young players are getting.

I don't understand the rotation.

Are you seriously giving Gill, Champagnie, Kispert and Bagley 30 minutes a game a piece? How are you even giving Bagley and Sarr 30 minutes unless you play Sarr 12 minutes a game at PF? That leaves just 36 PF minutes available. Gill takes 30 of them, leaving just 6 leftover. Champagnie takes those 6 minutes plus 24 minutes at SF, leaving only 24 total SF minutes.

Just to do our best to make it work, let's assume Kispert plays all of his 30 minutes at SG. That leaves 18 free SG minutes and 24 free SF minutes available for a total of 42 leftover SG/SF minutes available. So all of Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton will get to split just 42 total minutes. And the 48 available PG minutes are going to get split among McCollum, Carrington, Tre, AJ and Cooper.

So in a tank year where we are prioritizing developing young players, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Bilal will each get about 8 minutes a game, and Carrington, Tre and AJ will each get about 12. While at the same time, veterans like Bagley and Gill, who are obviously not part of the future, will each play 30.

Wizzy is wrong. You don't really get that much better with NBA minutes. You get better by doing thousands of drills in practice, watching film, lifting weights, and getting stronger and more athletic. That takes time and physical maturity.

It's important to get some on-the-court minutes just to get a sense of the speed of the game and how good the competition is, but you don't really improve in a linear relationship with minutes played. I don't think playing 3000 minutes in a season is all that much of an advantage over playing 1200. But 1200 regular rotation minutes is certainly better than 150 garbage time minutes exclusively in blowouts.

That was referring to guys who aren't good enough to deserve minutes. You don't forcefeed guys who are totally unable to play until they improve the basic skills in drills. But Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are well beyond that point. They are probably the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team and are unquestionably better than Gill, Bagley, Kispert and Champagnie.

Also, my post talks about some regular rotation still being helpful to development. Young guys don't need 3000 minutes, but 1200 is better than 150. You are proposing that two of our best current players get roughly 600 minutes in the season.

[leswizards]

I don't understand the rotation.

Are you seriously giving Gill, Champagnie, Kispert and Bagley 30 minutes a game a piece? How are you even giving Bagley and Sarr 30 minutes unless you play Sarr 12 minutes a game at PF? That leaves just 36 PF minutes available. Gill takes 30 of them, leaving just 6 leftover. Champagnie takes those 6 minutes plus 24 minutes at SF, leaving only 24 total SF minutes.

Just to do our best to make it work, let's assume Kispert plays all of his 30 minutes at SG. That leaves 18 free SG minutes and 24 free SF minutes available for a total of 42 leftover SG/SF minutes available. So all of Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton will get to split just 42 total minutes. And the 48 available PG minutes are going to get split among McCollum, Carrington, Tre, AJ and Cooper.

So in a tank year where we are prioritizing developing young players, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Bilal will each get about 8 minutes a game, and Carrington, Tre and AJ will each get about 12. While at the same time, veterans like Bagley and Gill, who are obviously not part of the future, will each play 30.

Wizzy is wrong. You don't really get that much better with NBA minutes. You get better by doing thousands of drills in practice, watching film, lifting weights, and getting stronger and more athletic. That takes time and physical maturity.

It's important to get some on-the-court minutes just to get a sense of the speed of the game and how good the competition is, but you don't really improve in a linear relationship with minutes played. I don't think playing 3000 minutes in a season is all that much of an advantage over playing 1200. But 1200 regular rotation minutes is certainly better than 150 garbage time minutes exclusively in blowouts.

That was referring to guys who aren't good enough to deserve minutes. You don't forcefeed guys who are totally unable to play until they improve the basic skills in drills. But Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are well beyond that point. They are probably the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team and are unquestionably better than Gill, Bagley, Kispert and Champagnie.

Also, my post talks about some regular rotation still being helpful to development. Young guys don't need 3000 minutes, but 1200 is better than 150. You are proposing that two of our best current players get roughly 600 minutes in the season.

That is false on many levels. Per my rotation both Bilal and Keyshawn could get 30 mpg. All they have to do is play well.

[payitforward]

If it were up to me this is how I would handle the Wizards rotation:

First, I would pull Kris and CJ aside and tell them that they are both high priced veterans who are capable of playing better. Unfortunately, until they start playing better, their minutes might be curtailed.

Second, I would divide the Wizards into three groups. The first group would consist of Bagley, Champagnie, Sarr, Gill and Kispert. The five players in this group would all get 30 mpg. 3 of these 5 players would be on the court at all times. And for 6 minutes per game, 4 of the 5 players would be on the court. The second group would be Kris, CJ and Keyshawn. 42 minutes per game would be allocated to these 3 players to be divided based upon who is playing best that night. The final group would consist of Keyshawn (again), Malaki, Watkins, Riley, Tristan, Tre, Bilal, Cam, Bub, AJ and Sharife. 48 minutes per game would be allocated to this group. (With the exception of Keyshawn), no more than 1 player from this group would ever be on the floor at any time. Minutes will be given to those players who play well.

I doubt doing this would add any significant amount wins. However, it would make the games more competitive and add value to the experience that the young players are getting.

Glad you decided not to take a year off!

[nate33]

That was referring to guys who aren't good enough to deserve minutes. You don't forcefeed guys who are totally unable to play until they improve the basic skills in drills. But Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are well beyond that point. They are probably the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team and are unquestionably better than Gill, Bagley, Kispert and Champagnie.

Also, my post talks about some regular rotation still being helpful to development. Young guys don't need 3000 minutes, but 1200 is better than 150. You are proposing that two of our best current players get roughly 600 minutes in the season.

That is false on many levels. Per my rotation both Bilal and Keyshawn could get 30 mpg. All they have to do is play well.

No. That is false. Assuming they don't play PG, there are only 42 total minutes available for Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton to share at the rest of the wing positions. Even if Whitmore, Riley and Middleton get 0 minutes (which is absurd on its face), Bilal and Kyshawn only get 21 a piece.

[leswizards]

That was referring to guys who aren't good enough to deserve minutes. You don't forcefeed guys who are totally unable to play until they improve the basic skills in drills. But Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are well beyond that point. They are probably the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team and are unquestionably better than Gill, Bagley, Kispert and Champagnie.

Also, my post talks about some regular rotation still being helpful to development. Young guys don't need 3000 minutes, but 1200 is better than 150. You are proposing that two of our best current players get roughly 600 minutes in the season.

That is false on many levels. Per my rotation both Bilal and Keyshawn could get 30 mpg. All they have to do is play well.

No. That is false. Assuming they don't play PG, there are only 42 total minutes available for Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton to share at the rest of the wing positions. Even if Whitmore, Riley and Middleton get 0 minutes (which is absurd on its face), Bilal and Kyshawn only get 21 a piece.

The Wizards pg play has been atrocious this year. I am perfectly comfortable with experimenting with other players just as long their play merits minutes at the pg. Riley has only played garbage minutes this season, yet you are worked up over this rotation because you assume that it means no minutes for will et Al.

[leswizards]

That was referring to guys who aren't good enough to deserve minutes. You don't forcefeed guys who are totally unable to play until they improve the basic skills in drills. But Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are well beyond that point. They are probably the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team and are unquestionably better than Gill, Bagley, Kispert and Champagnie.

Also, my post talks about some regular rotation still being helpful to development. Young guys don't need 3000 minutes, but 1200 is better than 150. You are proposing that two of our best current players get roughly 600 minutes in the season.

That is false on many levels. Per my rotation both Bilal and Keyshawn could get 30 mpg. All they have to do is play well.

No. That is false. Assuming they don't play PG, there are only 42 total minutes available for Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton to share at the rest of the wing positions. Even if Whitmore, Riley and Middleton get 0 minutes (which is absurd on its face), Bilal and Kyshawn only get 21 a piece.

I don’t know why you are so worked up over this. First, it is never going to happen. Second, you are going to get your way in terms of the rotation. Third, you will keep arguing about how great the wizards young talent is.

All the while, teams like the hornets and the 76ers will continually blow the wizards out by 40 points over a 24 minute stretch making the rest of the game irrelevant and making the Wizards look like the Washington Generals.

[nate33]

That is false on many levels. Per my rotation both Bilal and Keyshawn could get 30 mpg. All they have to do is play well.

No. That is false. Assuming they don't play PG, there are only 42 total minutes available for Bilal, Kyshawn, Whitmore, Riley and Middleton to share at the rest of the wing positions. Even if Whitmore, Riley and Middleton get 0 minutes (which is absurd on its face), Bilal and Kyshawn only get 21 a piece.

The Wizards pg play has been atrocious this year. I am perfectly comfortable with experimenting with other players just as long their play merits minutes at the pg. Riley has only played garbage minutes this season, yet you are worked up over this rotation because you assume that it means no minutes for will et Al.

I'm worked up over the rotation because it makes no sense. It plays a bunch of veteran big men when the clear weakness of the team is ballhandling and playmaking and the clear goal of the team is to develop young players for the future.

I have no problems with the general idea that the team should perhaps lean on its veterans a bit more because maybe there are too many young guys playing at once and it's leading to systemic failure. (I don't really agree with the idea, but it's not unreasonable.)

But if that's your focus, then we should be leaning on the veterans who actually know how to play, and that's CJ and Middleton. We shouldn't be playing Gill at all. And we shouldn't be force-feeding Bagley any more than the 18 minutes he needs to play to back up Sarr because it pushes a bunch of other guys out of their natural position. And we should still give a significant workload to our younger players who actually do know how to play, like Kyshawn and Bilal.

Your philosophy is self-contradicting. On one hand, you seem to want to play more vets to try instill more order in the rotations and limit the mistakes, which I can totally understand. But on the other hand, you are saying to hell with traditional roles and skillsets. Just throw Bilal Coulibaly in at PG because you can't fit him anywhere else. And that will surely disrupt the order of a veteran lineup and add a lot more mistakes.

[payitforward]

...Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are ...unquestionably better than ...Champagnie....

Without seeking a pointless argument, please explain the basis of this "unquestionable" judgment? Especially in the case of Bilal, who simply has not put up good numbers.

Please understand, I am genuinely puzzled. To me, it's literally obvious that what Champagnie accomplished in his 1350 minute season established him as, literally, an outstanding NBA player.

To put it another way, I can't come up with a player who produced at his level over that many minutes yet didn't have an outstanding multi-year career (barring injuries of course). Can you think of one?

Now, obviously, as compared to e.g. a lottery pick, it's much less likely that a guy who goes undrafted, like JC, or who is picked late in R2, will wind up being really good. But, of course, it can't be impossible. & it does happen.

[nate33]

...Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly are ...unquestionably better than ...Champagnie....

Without seeking a pointless argument, please explain the basis of this "unquestionable" judgment? Especially in the case of Bilal, who simply has not put up good numbers.

Please understand, I am genuinely puzzled. To me, it's literally obvious that what Champagnie accomplished in his 1350 minute season established him as, literally, an outstanding NBA player.

To put it another way, I can't come up with a player who produced at his level over that many minutes yet didn't have an outstanding multi-year career (barring injuries of course). Can you think of one?

Now, obviously, as compared to e.g. a lottery pick, it's much less likely that a guy who goes undrafted, like JC, or who is picked late in R2, will wind up being really good. But, of course, it can't be impossible. & it does happen.

I'm not going to rehash the same argument I've had with you a dozen times. I'll be brief:

- Defense matters, even though it mostly doesn't show up in the box score. Bilal is our best perimeter defender, better than Champagnie.
- Champagnie doing a fine job as a 5th option role player, usually against backups, is not the same thing as being thrust into a featured role against starters and a scouting report. In leswizards' scenario, Champagnie will be most likely be starting alongside three among Kispert, Gill, Bagley and Sarr, plus one extra player who may or may not even be a PG. Champagnie will be asked to do a lot more shot creation and playmaking in that lineup and he has not really demonstrated an aptitude for that, as much as I love his rebounding.

But even if you want to argue that Champagnie is every bit as good as Kyshawn and Bilal, it doesn't change the arguments I'm making about the absurdity of leswizards' proposed rotation. Champagnie isn't my problem. I would not stand in the way of him getting more minutes, particularly if they are coming at the expense of Whitmore, Carrington or Middleton.