Ridiculous the amount of games missed in recent years with advanced medical knowledge

[migya]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

[AussieBuck]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

Maybe take off the rose coloured glasses and compare the pace and intensity of games?

[frica]

The heavy lateral movement that characterizes the modern game is a lot heavier on the joints than the game of yesteryear.

[penbeast0]

I think the modern game is indeed much more movement heavy with the pace and space offensive revolution replacing the post or double post offense as the dominant paradigm.

I also think that with the money and the teams of advisors, players think of themselves more as economic assets rather than part of a team to a much greater extent and are much less likely to play hurt and risk permanent injury.

Of course, teams have always used forms of load management, thus the stories about Wilt and Russell sitting in the stands while their teams practiced to allow their joints to rest. I think teams are less likely to do this today after the Iverson "practice" issues and the like.

[Owly]

It looks very fake as well.

I don't know what this means.

Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is.

But surely this is a peril of cross era comparison. A worker able to leverage better tools could perhaps do more work in 3 days than one from much further back does in 5. So there's a fair argument you need to start with being aware of era norms.

Personally my impressions and thoughts are

1) Of course playing more, over playing less - if all else is equal - will be positive. Happier fans, better chance of the team winning etc.

2) the game today is more physically demanding. A circa (or greater than) 40mpg regular season player is a player who is probably playing with significant fatigue and thus not optimized and with significant injury risk.

3) I hate seeing broken down players (and other humans, but we're talking basketball here). Watching Larry Bird in pain at the back end of his career feels sad. And these people have to live with their bodies. They're well compensated and they choose to sign the contracts but I'd prefer not to see (or think of) them "broken" after we've finished watching them. And not in a "so I just choose not so see it" sort of way.

4) Not a big thing and one thing in isolation doesn't decide a series, but I hate when all the talk of a playoffs - at the time or in player conversation context on here - is about injuries. If playoffs is going to be the big thing teams really should prioritize it.

5) Having a very long regular season and a playoffs doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. People took a while and there are other incentives (e.g. selling tickets) but teams have caught on that RS winning isn't valued anything like playoff winning. For as long as things are as they are load management makes a ton of sense. Easy to say after the fact but in some instances maybe being more aggressive might have been better, might saying "We'll seek - without any significant injuries - to play Embiid 28mpg for 50 games - circa 1400 RS minutes ... and hopefully have a reasonably healthy, well-tuned but not overloaded superstar ready for the playoffs" make sense? It's not a guarantee and maybe it gets ugly if it doesn't stop injuries, and maybe he doesn't want to do it or maybe it causes resentment from other players, maybe fans hate it (in part because they don't know this timeline).

6) I think the MVP threshold and similar were a bad means of making the RS matter to players. It potentially creates friction between team and player, ignored a historical precedent somewhat significantly below the threshold (Walton) and somewhat misses the point. Regular season wins aren't cherished. NBA Cup too ... seems like something that made it worse, it and RS aren't important enough on their own (where cup cultures exist they are separate) to warrant more games (correctly) but (in my opinion) it just further says ... these games don't matter in and of themselves so we've made up a new trophy.

7) I don't know that there's a simple solution to RS games don't feel valuable to the basketball side of teams. And you never see all the consequences of changes in advance. But to throw something out ... if you can get buy-in for fewer RS games (may mean less money though if they're better and more prestigious) truly even schedule (at least within each conference - could go 4x against only in-conference rivals? cut travel?). 58 games. Make a big deal of RS (conference?) champions. Have a trophy, have coverage, have videos, make it clear that over a big sample this team was the best. Give that a little bit of time to breathe. Not a lot, just a little bit. Then go to the playoffs. Maybe the money doesn't work. But I think you have to at least consider this type of thing if you don't like a diluted product.

[Djoker]

Prior to the 2023-24 season, the NBA put in a 65-game minimum to be eligible for All-NBA Teams and major awards like MVP. And the last two seasons there was much less load management but it seems this season, the players are back to sitting out a ton of games.

[Ol Roy]

Not just missed games, but less minutes per game.

[RCM88x]

Advanced medical knowledge:

Playing less (especially in meaningless regular season games) reduces chances for injury.

[kcktiny]

RS winning isn't valued anything like playoff winning

Because half the team make the playoffs.

There are 6 divisions - have just 6 teams make the playoffs, with the teams with the top 2 W-L records getting 1st round byes.

There would be a lot less load management and a lot less players ducking games (like back-to-backs) knowing you have to win your division to make the playoffs.

[migya]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

Maybe take off the rose coloured glasses and compare the pace and intensity of games?

The older eras were much more intense and had more pace. Go watch past games.

[dcstanley]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

Maybe take off the rose coloured glasses and compare the pace and intensity of games?

The older eras were much more intense and had more pace. Go watch past games.

Much more intense, huh?

[tsherkin]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

So, this isn't really how "advanced medical knowledge" works (referencing the thread title).

The physical stresses from the tempo and aggressive lateral movement of today's game are different than in ages past. That's not something that medicine can just magically go away. There's a reason we're seeing these Achilles injuries and so forth.

We have surgeries that work better, we have better training regimens and the like, but the joints these guy have are the same. And the taller guys who are stressing their joints are putting new stressors that guys in ages past didn't have. The game has a LOT more movement than it used to, beyond the baseline to baseline runs.

Guys missing games sucks, no doubt. But some guys are more or less durable than others, and the fundamental nature of the game has changed, too.

And then the idea that "older eras were much more intense and had more pace" is off. The pace was certainly higher, but they were doing less. There was a lot more running straight up and down for baseline jumpers, and considerably less action in the key. And then in the later 90s and early 2000s, you had a lot of set action where you were in the halfcourt waiting for basic things to happen. Less over impact on the players.

It's just not useful or contextually-valid to compare the earlier eras to know and complain that "advanced medical knowledge" should be solving this problem.

[tsherkin]

RS winning isn't valued anything like playoff winning

Because half the team make the playoffs.

There are 6 divisions - have just 6 teams make the playoffs, with the teams with the top 2 W-L records getting 1st round byes.

There would be a lot less load management and a lot less players ducking games (like back-to-backs) knowing you have to win your division to make the playoffs.

That'd be an interesting idea, honestly.

The league will never go for it, nor would owners, because it'll screw revenue, but it would make a tonal difference in the RS, for sure.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Eliminating back to backs is an easy first step

[ReggiesKnicks]

RS winning isn't valued anything like playoff winning

Because half the team make the playoffs.

There are 6 divisions - have just 6 teams make the playoffs, with the teams with the top 2 W-L records getting 1st round byes.

There would be a lot less load management and a lot less players ducking games (like back-to-backs) knowing you have to win your division to make the playoffs.

That'd be an interesting idea, honestly.

The league will never go for it, nor would owners, because it'll screw revenue, but it would make a tonal difference in the RS, for sure.

It would also lead the more tanking teams since there isn't a Play-In or Post-Season to play for. Imagine having 12-14 teams blatantly tanking.

The Play-In has been the best major change to the post-season since the NBA got rid of 5-game series.

The only way to curtail missed games is to provide more incentive to the regular season. The NBA is already doing this and my expectations are the NBA will keep tying monetary value to the regular season in order to incentivize players to play meaningful basketball.

There is also an incredibly complex and complicated political aspect which most people, kcktiny included, seem to omit when discussing these changes.

The NBA is a business capitalizing on basketball and is a league owned by money hungry Billionaires who frankly shouldn't exist from a philosophical level in a society yet control the major aspect of the society in the USA. The idea that the NBA would sacrifice revenue for "the integrity of the game" is unfortunately unrealistic given the current state of the USA and where it has been headed since the late 1970s.

The players and owners both want the same thing, more money. They want more revenue, which in turn requires more games. That's the bottom line of something that we will never see change under Silver and the current ownership group(s). In fact, what many people are discussing or recommending would fall flat to any MBA student or graduate: Why would a business actively make decisions to directly lower their revenue? That's basic business 101.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Eliminating back to backs is an easy first step

This is a great start. It also requires a longer season, though I'm not sure how much longer (Maybe 1 month?).

[penbeast0]

So make two changes.
(a) Only 8 teams make the playoffs, the winners of each division and the two best records outside if the playoffs.
(b) Change the draft so the best records outside the playoffs pick first to incentivize regular season winning not losing. With that few playoff teams, teams won't tank preferring the #9 spot rather than the #8 unless it's a truly extraordinary situation.

Bad teams will play younger players to develop them instead of older vets and will slowly get better rather than having #1 picks on the worst teams. May not work but what we have now isn't working either if you don't like tanking.

[kcktiny]

There is also an incredibly complex and complicated political aspect which most people, kcktiny included, seem to omit when discussing these changes. The NBA is a business capitalizing on basketball... The idea that the NBA would sacrifice revenue for "the integrity of the game" is unfortunately unrealistic

Thank you for that scholarly insight.

But the question was how to get players to play in more games.

The Play-In has been the best major change to the post-season since the NBA got rid of 5-game series.

How is adding even more playoff teams going to address the issue of getting players to play in more games?

[Warspite]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

Maybe take off the rose coloured glasses and compare the pace and intensity of games?

You think that because they play slower and more lackadaisically that they are more injury prone? Interesting take.

[dcstanley]

Seems like many players, particularly stars are missing lots of games again. With the increased medical knowledge and processes in recent years it makes no sense. It's likely alot of preserving players, can only think of for possible playoff good health and longer careers, but that doesn't lead to better results, better investment and better fan (the ones financing it) experience. Certainly does no good for comparison with players from other eras, regardless of how good the stats may look. A worker turning up 3 days in a 5 day working week is not the asset another that's there almost every day is. It looks very fake as well.

Maybe take off the rose coloured glasses and compare the pace and intensity of games?

You think that because they play slower and more lackadaisically that they are more injury prone? Interesting take.

You can't possibly believe this. Players didn't even have to guard beyond the three point line in previous eras.