Which did you find more entertaining, Peak Kobe or Peak Curry?

[tsherkin]

I totally get if someone finds Peak Curry more entertaining than Peak Kobe — no issue there.

But can we at least recognize that the results of this poll are probably skewed? Prime Kobe was nearly 20 years ago, and alot of the people voting now likely weren’t watching basketball back then. I’m not saying that in an “old head who knows better” kind of way — just pointing out that when it comes to entertainment, people naturally lean toward the players they actually saw play.

There is that, though the counterpoint would be that the demographic on these forums skews old enough that a lot should remember Kobe as well. It's an interesting thought to consider, though, because even still, you do have recency bias.

Like, I watched Kobe's entire career, but I'm going back over a dozen years to his last good season. My last memory of Kobe's career was him shooting a billions to hit 60 in his final game on 6/21 from 3... and then I have to remind myself that he was actually CRUSHING it in the 4th quarter and I'm mainly remembering the first half, you know? It's a long time ago. One last heater on his way out the door.

So yeah, worth considering!

[dhsilv2]

I totally get if someone finds Peak Curry more entertaining than Peak Kobe — no issue there.

But can we at least recognize that the results of this poll are probably skewed? Prime Kobe was nearly 20 years ago, and alot of the people voting now likely weren’t watching basketball back then. I’m not saying that in an “old head who knows better” kind of way — just pointing out that when it comes to entertainment, people naturally lean toward the players they actually saw play.

As OG15 just noted earlier, over 60% of this forum is over 35. In terms of people who are the "right age" to be super Kobe fans vs Curry fans. This forum is actually about as biased as any place on the internet for Kobe.

That isn't to say there isn't a recency bias perhaps taking place too. But if anywhere online would skew to Kobe, it's here.

[Ito]

Neither.. Kobe wasn’t entertaining he was feared but his peak years he was a chucker.. and we was or I was watching LeBron run things in the East.. and Curry, well I was watching Kyrie break ankles..

But to answer the question while curry not the player Kobe is you can say those ridiculous threes attempts and makes would top Kobe even if he’s the better player .. but curry had to go against Bron and the Cavs which helped.. Kobe was part of another lakers vs Celtics show in a way and I wasn’t interested in those Boston teams I only liked Rondo and btw artest saved Kobe just like kyrie saved LeBron and that doesn’t ever get talked about

Then again, young Kobe was entertaining early on and during the three peat not the post Shaq kobe I barely watched those Lakers

[nate33]

There is nothing more entertaining in the history of basketball than Steph Curry on a roll. It brings me more joy than anything I've ever seen on a basketball court.

The next-best things are the ATG passers like Nash, Jokic, Bird or Magic orchestrating beautiful team basketball by seeing the court in ways that nobody else does.

I find the great individual scorers, like Kobe, Jordan, Durant, etc. to be a little less thrilling.

[Optms]

There is nothing more entertaining in the history of basketball than Steph Curry on a roll. It brings me more joy than anything I've ever seen on a basketball court.

The next-best things are the ATG passers like Nash, Jokic, Bird or Magic orchestrating beautiful team basketball by seeing the court in ways that nobody else does.

I find the great individual scorers, like Kobe, Jordan, Durant, etc. to be a little less thrilling.

Curry going off is identical to Kobe going though. The only difference was Curry did it from 3 while Kobe used all parts of the court. So more parity. If you like Curry on a roll then I'm not sure why you wouldn't like Kobe. That is why I'm such a huge Curry fan, reminded me a lot of Kobe.

[nate33]

There is nothing more entertaining in the history of basketball than Steph Curry on a roll. It brings me more joy than anything I've ever seen on a basketball court.

The next-best things are the ATG passers like Nash, Jokic, Bird or Magic orchestrating beautiful team basketball by seeing the court in ways that nobody else does.

I find the great individual scorers, like Kobe, Jordan, Durant, etc. to be a little less thrilling.

Curry going off is identical to Kobe going though. The only difference was Curry did it from 3 while Kobe used all parts of the court. So more parity. If you like Curry on a roll then I'm not sure why you wouldn't like Kobe. That is why I'm such a huge Curry fan, reminded me a lot of Kobe.

Obviously, this is all subjective. But I just get more joy out of an undersized guy making crazy, high arching, 3's with that quick release to be more entertaining than a big strong athletic wing being able to rise over defenders to get his shot off.

[Effigy]

Curry easily. The big problem with Kobe is he just was trying so hard to be Jordan and we just had seen Jordan. And he wasn't as good, obviously. Certainly not as efficient. We'd never seen anything like Curry.

[TheGeneral99]

Easily peak Curry.

Kobe was an all-time great but he gets so overrated. Peak Kobe was an assassin but he was an iso-heavy chucker who took a ton of horrible shots and was relatively inefficient.

Peak Curry was the most exciting player since prime Jordan...I've never seen a guy like that complete dominate the NBA...the Warriors were blowing out teams by 30 every game and Curry sat a ton of 4th quarters.

[dantas]

Curry was the most revolutionary player, with his three-point shots that changed the dynamics of the game, but around 2007, 2008, Kobe had a different aura, with a sequence of four games with over 50 points (with 54% FG and four wins), the 81-point game (60% FG), it seemed like at any moment he would do something truly extraordinary, break some scoring record. Besides that, I preferred watching Kobe's post moves.

[WarriorGM]

This question is unfair to Kobe.

We are probably witness to peak Jokic who has been amazing.

We are seeing what a peak Doncic might be like. Again amazing.

We are seeing glimpses of what Wembanyama might be able to do. Might go without parallel in NBA history.

Nevertheless in the future when you are going to be talking to kids relating stories of what you witnessed back in the day Curry doing his thing may still end up being the most singular experience to brag about.

[Old_Blue]

Curry easily. The big problem with Kobe is he just was trying so hard to be Jordan and we just had seen Jordan. And he wasn't as good, obviously. Certainly not as efficient. We'd never seen anything like Curry.

Kobe didn't want to be Jordan. Kobe wanted the FAME that Jordan achieved. To this end, Kobe forced a ton of dumb shots throughout his career. The proof is in the pudding. Kobe never had a season where he shot .470 or higher and finished with only 1 MVP award. Meanwhile, Jordan had 10 seasons where he shot .480 or higher (missing a total of only 7 games during those 10 seasons) and finished with 6 MVP awards.

The more relevant question is - Which did you find more entertaining, Peak MJ, Peak Curry or Peak Magic (who was, in fact, the greatest backcourt player in Lakers history)? Kobe doesn't even belong in the discussion.

[tsherkin]

Easily peak Curry.

Kobe was an all-time great but he gets so overrated. Peak Kobe was an assassin but he was an iso-heavy chucker who took a ton of horrible shots and was relatively inefficient.

No he wasn't. Leastwise, not until he was old and post-Achilles tear. For the decade of his prime, he was a +3% rTS player, which isn't "relatively inefficient" at all. He wasn't as efficient as Reggie or Ray Allen, or prime MJ for sure, but he was still an efficient scorer. And that's before you consider volume.

It's okay to prefer Curry. Hell, as I said earlier, I do too.

It is not okay, however, to perpetuate old myths which have been thoroughly debunked

Kobe didn't want to be Jordan. Kobe wanted the FAME that Jordan achieved. To this end, Kobe forced a ton of dumb shots throughout his career. The proof is in the pudding. Kobe never had a season where he shot .470 or higher and finished with only 1 MVP award. Meanwhile, Jordan had 10 seasons where he shot .480 or higher (missing a total of only 7 games during those 10 seasons) and finished with 6 MVP awards.

This isn't a super-valid criticism, because Kobe's a 4.1 3PA/g player on his career and Jordan was at 1.7. Kobe's a career 47.9% 2FG shooter and played 20 seasons to MJ's 15 (in 2 of which, 86 and 95, he played under 20 games).

Kobe shot 47%+ 2FG in 13 different seasons. Jordan's a career 51.0% 2FG player, and 49.7% FG. It's not hard to argue that he was BETTER, but Kobe was playing a different style of game, in a different era. Jordan shot 46.5% FG in his final season with Chicago, and 48.2% 2FG. That's Kobe territory. 99-14, Kobe averaged 48.5% 2FG.

Context matters.

[Raps in 4]

Peak Curry. He was a significantly better and more entertaining offensive player. A large part of Kobe's impact came from his defense. His offense was quite ugly at times.

[Effigy]

Curry easily. The big problem with Kobe is he just was trying so hard to be Jordan and we just had seen Jordan. And he wasn't as good, obviously. Certainly not as efficient. We'd never seen anything like Curry.

Kobe didn't want to be Jordan. Kobe wanted the FAME that Jordan achieved. To this end, Kobe forced a ton of dumb shots throughout his career. The proof is in the pudding. Kobe never had a season where he shot .470 or higher and finished with only 1 MVP award. Meanwhile, Jordan had 10 seasons where he shot .480 or higher (missing a total of only 7 games during those 10 seasons) and finished with 6 MVP awards.

The more relevant question is - Which did you find more entertaining, Peak MJ, Peak Curry or Peak Magic (who was, in fact, the greatest backcourt player in Lakers history)? Kobe doesn't even belong in the discussion.

Magic was before my time (and before the time of most of the people here). I started following the league right around the time of his comeback. I even was at his last regular season game, but he was a PF in that game. Not exactly vintage Magic.

[TheGeneral99]

Easily peak Curry.

Kobe was an all-time great but he gets so overrated. Peak Kobe was an assassin but he was an iso-heavy chucker who took a ton of horrible shots and was relatively inefficient.

No he wasn't. Leastwise, not until he was old and post-Achilles tear. For the decade of his prime, he was a +3% rTS player, which isn't "relatively inefficient" at all. He wasn't as efficient as Reggie or Ray Allen, or prime MJ for sure, but he was still an efficient scorer. And that's before you consider volume.

It's okay to prefer Curry. Hell, as I said earlier, I do too.

It is not okay, however, to perpetuate old myths which have been thoroughly debunked

Kobe didn't want to be Jordan. Kobe wanted the FAME that Jordan achieved. To this end, Kobe forced a ton of dumb shots throughout his career. The proof is in the pudding. Kobe never had a season where he shot .470 or higher and finished with only 1 MVP award. Meanwhile, Jordan had 10 seasons where he shot .480 or higher (missing a total of only 7 games during those 10 seasons) and finished with 6 MVP awards.

This isn't a super-valid criticism, because Kobe's a 4.1 3PA/g player on his career and Jordan was at 1.7. Kobe's a career 47.9% 2FG shooter and played 20 seasons to MJ's 15 (in 2 of which, 86 and 95, he played under 20 games).

Kobe shot 47%+ 2FG in 13 different seasons. Jordan's a career 51.0% 2FG player, and 49.7% FG. It's not hard to argue that he was BETTER, but Kobe was playing a different style of game, in a different era. Jordan shot 46.5% FG in his final season with Chicago, and 48.2% 2FG. That's Kobe territory. 99-14, Kobe averaged 48.5% 2FG.

Context matters.

Not sure why you are comparing Michael Jordan at nearly 35 years old to Kobe.

[Old_Blue]

Peak Curry. He was a significantly better and more entertaining offensive player. A large part of Kobe's impact came from his defense. His offense was quite ugly at times.

Bingo. The funniest thing is when you hear someone suggest that Kobe was a great 3 point shooter - because he had the one night when he made 12 of them. On his career though, dude was a .329 shooter from beyond the arc. That's not just ugly. That number is by far the lowest three point percentage among all players with 1500+ career threes. Meanwhile, Steph's got a .423 career average on threes. No comparison.

[tsherkin]

Not sure why you are comparing Michael Jordan at nearly 35 years old to Kobe.

That was only one part of what I said. But the point was that in 98, Jordan's athleticism was similar to Kobe's, and the pace of the game had slowed down to a level very different than earlier in Jordan's career, more in-line with what Kobe saw through the bulk of his prime (and slower, even, than in 98 in the 3-peat years).

[dhsilv2]

Easily peak Curry.

Kobe was an all-time great but he gets so overrated. Peak Kobe was an assassin but he was an iso-heavy chucker who took a ton of horrible shots and was relatively inefficient.

No he wasn't. Leastwise, not until he was old and post-Achilles tear. For the decade of his prime, he was a +3% rTS player, which isn't "relatively inefficient" at all. He wasn't as efficient as Reggie or Ray Allen, or prime MJ for sure, but he was still an efficient scorer. And that's before you consider volume.

It's okay to prefer Curry. Hell, as I said earlier, I do too.

It is not okay, however, to perpetuate old myths which have been thoroughly debunked

Removing the last few seasons as i wanted to focus a bit more on history I pulled the top 50 scoring per 100 seasons all time. Obviously after 1974. All the seasons fell from 82-21 the way I did this.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player   PTS   Season   TS%+
Stephen Curry   42.5   2015-16   124
Karl Malone*   40.64   1989-90   117
Kevin Durant   41.77   2013-14   117
Giannis Antetokounmpo   39.3   2018-19   115
Stephen Curry   43.98   2020-21   115
Michael Jordan*   40.03   1988-89   114
Shaquille O'Neal*   39.6   1998-99   114
Isaiah Thomas   42.44   2016-17   113
Michael Jordan*   42.73   1989-90   113
Michael Jordan*   42.68   1990-91   113
Karl Malone*   39.99   1996-97   112
Kevin Durant   39.36   2009-10   112
Michael Jordan*   43.55   1987-88   112
Shaquille O'Neal*   40.07   1997-98   112
Giannis Antetokounmpo   40.06   2020-21   111
James Harden   43.52   2019-20   111
James Harden   42.26   2017-18   111
Joel Embiid   44.15   2020-21   111
LeBron James   40   2009-10   111
James Harden   48.21   2018-19   110
Giannis Antetokounmpo   44.23   2019-20   109
LeBron James   40.81   2008-09   109
Michael Jordan*   39.4   1991-92   109
Tracy McGrady*   42.01   2002-03   109
Bernard King*   42.3   1984-85   108
Shaquille O'Neal*   39.97   1994-95   108
Kobe Bryant*   39.71   2006-07   107
Michael Jordan*   42.48   1995-96   107
Dominique Wilkins*   39.42   1992-93   106
LeBron James   39.4   2005-06   106
Michael Jordan*   41.76   1996-97   106
Carmelo Anthony*   41.36   2012-13   105
Dwyane Wade*   41.8   2008-09   105
LeBron James   39.58   2007-08   105
Michael Jordan*   43   1992-93   105
Bradley Beal   39.64   2019-20   104
George Gervin*   42.4   1981-82   104
Kawhi Leonard   39.47   2019-20   104
Kobe Bryant*   45.63   2005-06   104
Luka Dončić   41.53   2019-20   104
Michael Jordan*   46.43   1986-87   104
Luka Dončić   39.9   2020-21   103
Bradley Beal   40.33   2020-21   102
DeMarcus Cousins   39.56   2016-17   102
Michael Jordan*   39.95   1997-98   102
Allen Iverson*   39.67   2005-06   101
Kobe Bryant*   39.56   2010-11   101
Russell Westbrook   44.8   2016-17   100
Russell Westbrook   41.08   2014-15   100
Dominique Wilkins*   40.5   1987-88   99


There's only a singular season under TS%+ of 100 and the average is 108.

So saying Kobe with a +3 TS%+ wasn't a chucker is kinda misleading. As volume goes up, TS% goes up historically. It's not a smooth natural curve but that's been the over all trend.

So among guys who are all time volume scorers Kobe's on the lower end. Though he's not by any stretch the worst.

[Old_Blue]

The very fact that Kobe supporters are resorting to cherry picking his career - if you remove his first several seasons and remove his last several seasons and look only at specific offensive categories - tells you everything you need to know about the validity of their argument. In contrast, nobody needs to make any excuses for MJ's or Steph's or, for that matter, Magic's career.

[benson13]

There will never be anything quite as entertaining as watching defenses scramble because of Steph's movement or seeing three defenders run at him because he has mistakenly gotten open while on fire. The guy could end a close game in three possessions.