Shams:Mavericks fire Nico Harrison

[doogie_hauser]

Wasn't there a rumour of Nico initially offering Luka to the Bucks for Giannis (which was flatly declined)
?

At any case, it is no secret the Mavs owners were not willing to give/pay Luka the max extension ?

I refuse to believe the conspiracy theory of the Lakers being gifted Luka on behalf of Silver, whose agenda has been for parity and smaller market teams to succeed

Also The Mavs only won/got Cooper Flagg cause they won a pre lotto coin toss with Chicago.

Nico's big blunder was not asking for Reaves and a couple of future unprotected firsts from the Lakers along with AD (and whoever else they got in the deal)

That would have been a bit more palatable for Mavs fans

[Dan Z]

Right, like any billionaire is going to sign off on making themselves look like idiots as a matter of normal backroom dealings.

They way people just assume that everyone involved with the Mavs in the deal was getting something valuable enough to have their reputation ruined to me smacks of not being able to actually put themselves in the shoes of the people they are looking to evaluate.

Nobody wants to be a hated idiot in the eyes of their customers, and it’s very very unlikely you could ever convince anyone with money and power to do it unless you can threaten with actual violence.


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Then Nico shouldve said he'd do the deal, but only if he gets a deal too. X amount if he's fired down the road.

I say this because his firing is no surprise. Everyone here saw it coming. Now he won't get another GM job.

But I mean, what would you have to be offered in order to destroy a career that allows you to be rich, famous, and the Man in almost all rooms you would walk into?

Short of a very specific blackmail threat, what would make it worth it?


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If ownership is forcing your hand you either have to resign or should do something like what I'm suggesting. I don't know Nico's finances, but maybe a severance package in the millions? Enough that he can retire or semi-retire if he wants too.

At least I'd try for that because, like you said, this tanks his career. And again it's no surprise.

[mademan]

I mean he clearly did...because it happened. He leveraged the moves he made that got them to a finals, played up the narratives that people were talking about at that time, and duped a dumbass family that has no basketball knowledge whatsoever into doing something they regretted as soon as they understood what they did.

There isn't one conspiracy theory that makes more sense than that.

That's crazy. Luka is the team, making this a financial decision that goes far beyond Nico. The people that pay billions for a team are the ones deciding to trade one of the biggest stars in the NBA.

Nico may push for it, but on court decisions are overruled all the time by financial ones. Nico doesnt have the power to trade the star, especially coming off a finals appearance. That's insane. Im not a conspiracy guy generally, but its hard to convince me this was just a stupid guy who duped everyone else in the organization into doing something this stupid and duped the money people into trading one of the most exciting players in the league. And then the universe gave them the 1st overall pick

You're acting like Dumont saw Luka that way when he very clearly did not. We have an abundance of evidence that he's an idiot who knows nothing about basketball. So your whole premise falls apart. Nico did have that power because everyone was raving about his moves of picking up Kyrie, Gafford, PJ, DJJ and Lively. Combine that with the fact that Dumont knows nothing about basketball, he leaned on "the basketball guy", which was Nico. The only part that I think was possibly rigged was the #1 pick, and even then, that had to have come well after the fact. You're looking at this like a fan, not a billionaire who doesn't know jack **** about basketball.

You dont need to know much to know that stars sell. I cant think of a situation in the history of the league where someone up and traded a star on a winning team without weeks/months/years of build up, because teams dont trade stars unless they have to. Stars sell. Bigger the star, more eye's, more sales, more $$$. You dont need to know anything about basketball to know this.

This trade was without precedent for like 5 different reasons. Trading a star who didnt ask out on a winning team, trading intra conference to a team fighting against you for playoff positioning, trading in secret instead of letting market dictate price, trading a guy with availability issues for an older guy with more availability issues, trading one of the biggest names and exciting player in the game who wants be on your team...

It goes beyond being a dumb trade. It just does not make sense in any realm, whether on court or financially. Ive seen many dumb moves in the NBA that are dumb on their face but have some logic behind them (take Knicks/Magic trading half a decade of picks for sub stars). This has no logic to it. Conspiracy just seems more plausible to me.

[Broadcaster]

I refuse to believe the NBA’s narrative no matter how many times they try to reinforce it. Hearing Adam Silver talk about integrity makes me sick. I think he’s full of ****. You can smell how much this reeks from a mile away.

[Dan Z]

Wasn't there a rumour of Nico initially offering Luka to the Bucks for Giannis (which was flatly declined)
?

At any case, it is no secret the Mavs owners were not willing to give/pay Luka the max extension ?

I refuse to believe the conspiracy theory of the Lakers being gifted Luka on behalf of Silver, whose agenda has been for parity and smaller market teams to succeed

Also The Mavs only won/got Cooper Flagg cause they won a pre lotto coin toss with Chicago.

Nico's big blunder was not asking for Reaves and a couple of future unprotected firsts from the Lakers along with AD (and whoever else they got in the deal)

That would have been a bit more palatable for Mavs fans

Nico should've shopped Luka around the league and then take the best offer (that is if he's being forced to trade him). That's what the majority of GMs would do.

The Mavs are currently paying AD on a 3 year 175 million dollar contract. Luka is on a 3 year 161 million. Paying Luka shouldn't be an issue, unless they just didn't want him.

[Ambrose]

That's crazy. Luka is the team, making this a financial decision that goes far beyond Nico. The people that pay billions for a team are the ones deciding to trade one of the biggest stars in the NBA.

Nico may push for it, but on court decisions are overruled all the time by financial ones. Nico doesnt have the power to trade the star, especially coming off a finals appearance. That's insane. Im not a conspiracy guy generally, but its hard to convince me this was just a stupid guy who duped everyone else in the organization into doing something this stupid and duped the money people into trading one of the most exciting players in the league. And then the universe gave them the 1st overall pick

You're acting like Dumont saw Luka that way when he very clearly did not. We have an abundance of evidence that he's an idiot who knows nothing about basketball. So your whole premise falls apart. Nico did have that power because everyone was raving about his moves of picking up Kyrie, Gafford, PJ, DJJ and Lively. Combine that with the fact that Dumont knows nothing about basketball, he leaned on "the basketball guy", which was Nico. The only part that I think was possibly rigged was the #1 pick, and even then, that had to have come well after the fact. You're looking at this like a fan, not a billionaire who doesn't know jack **** about basketball.

You dont need to know much to know that stars sell. I cant think of a situation in the history of the league where someone up and traded a star on a winning team without weeks/months/years of build up, because teams dont trade stars unless they have to. Stars sell. Bigger the star, more eye's, more sales, more $$$. You dont need to know anything about basketball to know this.

This trade was without precedent for like 5 different reasons. Trading a star who didnt ask out on a winning team, trading intra conference to a team fighting against you for playoff positioning, trading in secret instead of letting market dictate price, trading a guy with availability issues for an older guy with more availability issues, trading one of the biggest names and exciting player in the game who wants be on your team...

It goes beyond being a dumb trade. It just does not make sense in any realm, whether on court or financially. Ive seen many dumb moves in the NBA that are dumb on their face but have some logic behind them (take Knicks/Magic trading half a decade of picks for sub stars). This has no logic to it. Conspiracy just seems more plausible to me.

Well, the evidence points the other direction, and that's what matters to me.

[thelead]

Imagine Nico being caught up in a gambling issue and the trade was how he paid off his debt…

You all know with everything going on, this wouldn’t be all that shocking

Edit: for the record, this is just my imagination making stuff up

Perfectly fine to recognize that gambling related blackmail can be a way to manipulate someone in Nick’s position.

Just a problem when we blow right past incompetence to assume malevolence as the only explanation .

Is it far fetched to think bosses might get so pissed off at a fat diva that they want him gone regardless of the effect on the bottom line? Yes, that’s normal boss behavior actually.

Is it far fetched to think a particular boss might convince himself that getting of said fat diva is what’s best for the bottom line? Yes, that’s normal boss behavior too.

Sometimes I wonder how young people are here. I tend to think they can’t be that young else they’d be on some larger social media site, but if people don’t have experience working within vocational hierarchies yet, it frankly makes sense that they would underestimate how much ego goes into them and the bad the decision making can be while still being business as usual.


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Why couldn't it be both? also, I did say that this was completely made up by my imagination. I didn't think imagination died after growing into adulthood

And for the record, I think forums are a great place to have these conversations. This isn't Congress. These discussions don't have to be so serious.

[mademan]

You're acting like Dumont saw Luka that way when he very clearly did not. We have an abundance of evidence that he's an idiot who knows nothing about basketball. So your whole premise falls apart. Nico did have that power because everyone was raving about his moves of picking up Kyrie, Gafford, PJ, DJJ and Lively. Combine that with the fact that Dumont knows nothing about basketball, he leaned on "the basketball guy", which was Nico. The only part that I think was possibly rigged was the #1 pick, and even then, that had to have come well after the fact. You're looking at this like a fan, not a billionaire who doesn't know jack **** about basketball.

You dont need to know much to know that stars sell. I cant think of a situation in the history of the league where someone up and traded a star on a winning team without weeks/months/years of build up, because teams dont trade stars unless they have to. Stars sell. Bigger the star, more eye's, more sales, more $$$. You dont need to know anything about basketball to know this.

This trade was without precedent for like 5 different reasons. Trading a star who didnt ask out on a winning team, trading intra conference to a team fighting against you for playoff positioning, trading in secret instead of letting market dictate price, trading a guy with availability issues for an older guy with more availability issues, trading one of the biggest names and exciting player in the game who wants be on your team...

It goes beyond being a dumb trade. It just does not make sense in any realm, whether on court or financially. Ive seen many dumb moves in the NBA that are dumb on their face but have some logic behind them (take Knicks/Magic trading half a decade of picks for sub stars). This has no logic to it. Conspiracy just seems more plausible to me.

Well, the evidence points the other direction, and that's what matters to me.

There's no evidence. We're on the outside, we cant actually see. We make deductions based off of circumstantial stuff, and we come to different conclusions.

[doogie_hauser]

Wasn't there a rumour of Nico initially offering Luka to the Bucks for Giannis (which was flatly declined)
?

At any case, it is no secret the Mavs owners were not willing to give/pay Luka the max extension ?

I refuse to believe the conspiracy theory of the Lakers being gifted Luka on behalf of Silver, whose agenda has been for parity and smaller market teams to succeed

Also The Mavs only won/got Cooper Flagg cause they won a pre lotto coin toss with Chicago.

Nico's big blunder was not asking for Reaves and a couple of future unprotected firsts from the Lakers along with AD (and whoever else they got in the deal)

That would have been a bit more palatable for Mavs fans

Nico should've shopped Luka around the league and then take the best offer (that is if he's being forced to trade him). That's what the majority of GMs would do.

The Mavs are currently paying AD on a 3 year 175 million dollar contract. Luka is on a 3 year 161 million. Paying Luka shouldn't be an issue, unless they just didn't want him.

There was rumours that Luka was very belligerent towards the Mavs Health and Conditioning staff, but that might have been leaked by the Mavs owners or Nico himself.

[thelead]

I refuse to believe the NBA’s narrative no matter how many times they try to reinforce it. Hearing Adam Silver talk about integrity makes me sick. I think he’s full of ****. You can smell how much this reeks from a mile away.

Anyone that talks about integrity and then, metaphorically, gets in bed with gambling organizations can F off.

[CS707]

You're acting like Dumont saw Luka that way when he very clearly did not. We have an abundance of evidence that he's an idiot who knows nothing about basketball. So your whole premise falls apart. Nico did have that power because everyone was raving about his moves of picking up Kyrie, Gafford, PJ, DJJ and Lively. Combine that with the fact that Dumont knows nothing about basketball, he leaned on "the basketball guy", which was Nico. The only part that I think was possibly rigged was the #1 pick, and even then, that had to have come well after the fact. You're looking at this like a fan, not a billionaire who doesn't know jack **** about basketball.

You dont need to know much to know that stars sell. I cant think of a situation in the history of the league where someone up and traded a star on a winning team without weeks/months/years of build up, because teams dont trade stars unless they have to. Stars sell. Bigger the star, more eye's, more sales, more $$$. You dont need to know anything about basketball to know this.

This trade was without precedent for like 5 different reasons. Trading a star who didnt ask out on a winning team, trading intra conference to a team fighting against you for playoff positioning, trading in secret instead of letting market dictate price, trading a guy with availability issues for an older guy with more availability issues, trading one of the biggest names and exciting player in the game who wants be on your team...

It goes beyond being a dumb trade. It just does not make sense in any realm, whether on court or financially. Ive seen many dumb moves in the NBA that are dumb on their face but have some logic behind them (take Knicks/Magic trading half a decade of picks for sub stars). This has no logic to it. Conspiracy just seems more plausible to me.

Well, the evidence points the other direction, and that's what matters to me.

There's really no evidence one way or the other but it's odd that you believe the pick was potentially rigged but not the trade. I mean, why would the league rig the pick if they didn't owe the Mavs anything? The fact that Dallas didn't do the obvious and put him up for the highest bidder is something that can't really be explained away. Even basketball idiots still want a good return and to not help their main competitors.

[Anticon]

Wasn't there a rumour of Nico initially offering Luka to the Bucks for Giannis (which was flatly declined)
?

At any case, it is no secret the Mavs owners were not willing to give/pay Luka the max extension ?

I refuse to believe the conspiracy theory of the Lakers being gifted Luka on behalf of Silver, whose agenda has been for parity and smaller market teams to succeed

Also The Mavs only won/got Cooper Flagg cause they won a pre lotto coin toss with Chicago.

Nico's big blunder was not asking for Reaves and a couple of future unprotected firsts from the Lakers along with AD (and whoever else they got in the deal)

That would have been a bit more palatable for Mavs fans

Nico should've shopped Luka around the league and then take the best offer (that is if he's being forced to trade him). That's what the majority of GMs would do.

The Mavs are currently paying AD on a 3 year 175 million dollar contract. Luka is on a 3 year 161 million. Paying Luka shouldn't be an issue, unless they just didn't want him.

There was rumours that Luka was very belligerent towards the Mavs Health and Conditioning staff, but that might have been leaked by the Mavs owners or Nico himself.

Even if this were true, the situation wasn't anywhere close to requiring a trade. They had a lot that could be done to address that problem - or at least try to.

[Decipher]

Imagine Nico being caught up in a gambling issue and the trade was how he paid off his debt…

You all know with everything going on, this wouldn’t be all that shocking

Edit: for the record, this is just my imagination making stuff up

Perfectly fine to recognize that gambling related blackmail can be a way to manipulate someone in Nick’s position.

Just a problem when we blow right past incompetence to assume malevolence as the only explanation .

Is it far fetched to think bosses might get so pissed off at a fat diva that they want him gone regardless of the effect on the bottom line? Yes, that’s normal boss behavior actually.

Is it far fetched to think a particular boss might convince himself that getting of said fat diva is what’s best for the bottom line? Yes, that’s normal boss behavior too.

Sometimes I wonder how young people are here. I tend to think they can’t be that young else they’d be on some larger social media site, but if people don’t have experience working within vocational hierarchies yet, it frankly makes sense that they would underestimate how much ego goes into them and the bad the decision making can be while still being business as usual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why couldn't it be both? also, I did say that this was completely made up by my imagination. I didn't think imagination died after growing into adulthood

And for the record, I think forums are a great place to have these conversations. This isn't Congress. These discussions don't have to be so serious.

We work harder than Congress and are better informed

[Ambrose]

You dont need to know much to know that stars sell. I cant think of a situation in the history of the league where someone up and traded a star on a winning team without weeks/months/years of build up, because teams dont trade stars unless they have to. Stars sell. Bigger the star, more eye's, more sales, more $$$. You dont need to know anything about basketball to know this.

This trade was without precedent for like 5 different reasons. Trading a star who didnt ask out on a winning team, trading intra conference to a team fighting against you for playoff positioning, trading in secret instead of letting market dictate price, trading a guy with availability issues for an older guy with more availability issues, trading one of the biggest names and exciting player in the game who wants be on your team...

It goes beyond being a dumb trade. It just does not make sense in any realm, whether on court or financially. Ive seen many dumb moves in the NBA that are dumb on their face but have some logic behind them (take Knicks/Magic trading half a decade of picks for sub stars). This has no logic to it. Conspiracy just seems more plausible to me.

Well, the evidence points the other direction, and that's what matters to me.

There's no evidence. We're on the outside, we cant actually see. We make deductions based off of circumstantial stuff, and we come to different conclusions.

We have loads of evidence Nico hated Luka.

We have evidence that Nico has a massive ego.

We have evidence Nico and Pelinka are good friends.

We have evidence that Nico loves AD.

We have evidence Dumont knows nothing about basketball.

We have evidence that it is common for less-basketball oriented owners to defer to GMs or advisors all the time. Hell, look at New Orleans literally right now.

These all point one way.

[mademan]

Well, the evidence points the other direction, and that's what matters to me.

There's no evidence. We're on the outside, we cant actually see. We make deductions based off of circumstantial stuff, and we come to different conclusions.

We have loads of evidence Nico hated Luka.

We have evidence that Nico has a massive ego.

We have evidence Dumont knows nothing about basketball.

We have evidence that it is common for less-basketball oriented owners to defer to GMs or advisors all the time. Hell, look at New Orleans literally right now.

These all point one way.

Again, you dont need to know anything about basketball to know about trading popular stars in a star driven league. Nico can hate Luka all he wants, but Luka's bringing in the money, and that matters more than anything else.

[Doctor MJ]

Then Nico shouldve said he'd do the deal, but only if he gets a deal too. X amount if he's fired down the road.

I say this because his firing is no surprise. Everyone here saw it coming. Now he won't get another GM job.

But I mean, what would you have to be offered in order to destroy a career that allows you to be rich, famous, and the Man in almost all rooms you would walk into?

Short of a very specific blackmail threat, what would make it worth it?


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If ownership is forcing your hand you either have to resign or should do something like what I'm suggesting. I don't know Nico's finances, but maybe a severance package in the millions? Enough that he can retire or semi-retire if he wants too.

At least I'd try for that because, like you said, this tanks his career. And again it's no surprise.

A severance package worth millions would mean more if we weren’t talking about a guy already worth millions who would have all sorts of evidence of the conspiracy.

To me this is a situation where the cost of an effective bribe would have been astronomically big to the point it’s not realistic.

Like, if you can’t expect to bribe a guy with an offer of $10 mill - which I don’t think would have tempted a working NBA GM to kill his career in normal circumstances - are you seriously going to offer him $100 mill? Hard for me to imagine.

I could imagine offering him minority ownership in another circumstance - but why would you want minority ownership on a team you just to a bribe to ruin?

I can also always imagine blackmail and violence - but no one has offered any evidence for anything like that to this point.

Short of that, to me the simplest explanation is that Nico disliked Luka’s attitude and thought extremely highly of AD who he already knew, and convinced himself that his emotional preferences were justified for basketball reasons.


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[TheHartBreakKid]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned in this thread already, but if I was a Mavs fan, I would be furious. Mavs were better off atleast rolling another year with him, and terminating him in the summer. Doing it now just screams incompetence by ownership.

[Ambrose]

You dont need to know much to know that stars sell. I cant think of a situation in the history of the league where someone up and traded a star on a winning team without weeks/months/years of build up, because teams dont trade stars unless they have to. Stars sell. Bigger the star, more eye's, more sales, more $$$. You dont need to know anything about basketball to know this.

This trade was without precedent for like 5 different reasons. Trading a star who didnt ask out on a winning team, trading intra conference to a team fighting against you for playoff positioning, trading in secret instead of letting market dictate price, trading a guy with availability issues for an older guy with more availability issues, trading one of the biggest names and exciting player in the game who wants be on your team...

It goes beyond being a dumb trade. It just does not make sense in any realm, whether on court or financially. Ive seen many dumb moves in the NBA that are dumb on their face but have some logic behind them (take Knicks/Magic trading half a decade of picks for sub stars). This has no logic to it. Conspiracy just seems more plausible to me.

Well, the evidence points the other direction, and that's what matters to me.

There's really no evidence one way or the other but it's odd that you believe the pick was potentially rigged but not the trade. I mean, why would the league rig the pick if they didn't owe the Mavs anything? The fact that Dallas didn't do the obvious and put him up for the highest bidder is something that can't really be explained away. Even basketball idiots still want a good return and to not help their main competitors.

I could see Silver giving it them because the fanbase had basically revolted. I mean there's that story that Stern asked Shaq where he wanted to go, and I wouldn't put it past Silver to think giving Dallas #1 was right for the league. It's pretty hard to say they had #1 rigged from the start, because it was impossible to tell Dallas would be a lottery team. AD and Kyrie were both healthy and they were like 29-24 when the trade happened.

[Marvin Martian]

To each his own brother. Believe what you like. Feeling smart has nothing to do with it. No matter how many shady things happen in pro sports, you guys will just hand wave it away as random rogue actors.

Funny how the conspiracy deniers are the ones who don't actually have evidence to support their position because all of their sources are coming from the people that have 0 incentive to tell the truth.

I’m honestly not sure what “evidence” you’d be looking for here given that I’m largely arguing that we should start by taking seriously what those involved said they were doing.

Like, your conspiracies could potentially get evidence if and when these people start coming out and saying “I was lying the whole time”, but on the anti-conspiratorial side, what would the equivalent even be? One of the people involved saying “yeah, I stand by what I already said” won’t work because you’ve already decided they’re lying, so what else is there?

Of course, I’d say that’s actually the rub:

The beauty of being a conspiracy theorist is never having to admit you’re wrong, because anything that indicates you’re wrong is just part of the conspiracy.

Me? If and when actual conspiratorial evidence comes out, I’ll learn something.

But you’ve created a worldview that will successfully keep you from ever learning a truth that gets in the way of your beliefs.


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And why should anyone do that, knowing that they don't have any incentive to tell you the truth.

On top of that, the conspiracy theorists have not been proven wrong yet, while the deniers have already been debunked twice. One for believing the BS that Luka was fat and unmotivated and the second for believing that DAL won the trade and they were going to win multiple championships.

This came from the people you want to take seriously

[Ambrose]

There's no evidence. We're on the outside, we cant actually see. We make deductions based off of circumstantial stuff, and we come to different conclusions.

We have loads of evidence Nico hated Luka.

We have evidence that Nico has a massive ego.

We have evidence Dumont knows nothing about basketball.

We have evidence that it is common for less-basketball oriented owners to defer to GMs or advisors all the time. Hell, look at New Orleans literally right now.

These all point one way.

Again, you dont need to know anything about basketball to know about trading popular stars in a star driven league. Nico can hate Luka all he wants, but Luka's bringing in the money, and that matters more than anything else.

You keep saying this and not once have I considered this a valid counter. If anything, this exact thing proves your theory makes no sense. If Luka's bringing in the money, and they know that, which you're suggesting, then you're proposing the owners saw that and still decided to actively give away their own money. Completely illogical.