Free Noa.

[Rose2Boozer]

Solid first game for Noa Essengue. I want them to just leave him there and let him run. He should be brought back to the senior squad after the All Star break. I will be focusing on Noa's shooting, finishing, and rim protection. Let the kid play basketball.

[ChiTownHero1992]

Solid first game for Noa Essengue. I want them to just leave him there and let him run. He should be brought back to the senior squad after the All Star break. I will be focusing on Noa's shooting, finishing, and rim protection. Let the kid play basketball.

100% agree, I don't care if he goes for 50 a night for the next month, i want to see him get a good amount of minutes in the G-League, get comfortable with the play style so he can just seamlessly slide into the rotation post-all-star break rather than be rushed up and sit on the bench for 90% of the game.

[Chi town]

Billy has said on ball reps for Noa is the need.

Good to see him in DHO and PNRs.

[Indomitable]

Solid first game for Noa Essengue. I want them to just leave him there and let him run. He should be brought back to the senior squad after the All Star break. I will be focusing on Noa's shooting, finishing, and rim protection. Let the kid play basketball.

Exactly,let him get use to playing in the system

[dougthonus]

I’d like to see Noa’s stuff. Unlike some, none of this concerns me and I think it all makes a lot of sense if they do it right. I’d like to see how they are using him.

I'm totally aligned with you that him being in the G-League is not a representation of his skill level.

That said, I don't think playing in the G-League is the "right thing".

The offense isn't going to run like an NBA offense
His role won't be like it will be in the NBA
He won't start building bonds with his NBA teammates / coaches (and all the pieces that come with that)
He won't practice against NBA caliber players
The teammates are largely trying to show out so they can get a call up to a league making 10x as much money (be NBA or Europe)

This isn't what teams do for prospects whom are ready to contribute on their NBA rosters. I think Noa can contribute today and think he would develop faster and better contributing today vs going to the G-League.

FWIW, I don't think the org is lying about anything they say about Noa, I think they certainly believe those things. It's very different than what 98% of player's in his position are doing, and I don't think it's better.

I don't think it will matter so much in the long run one way or the other. The time frame is short in terms of his overall development as an NBA player, and I don't think it's going to make him regress or anything. I do think he'd develop faster and more in line with what we want on the main roster though, but the margins are probably not _that_ big either way.

[GoBlue72391]

Crazy to read people saying "Leave him in the G League until X date."

I recall a lot of people saying the same thing about Matas early on last year. Imagine if we actually did that. What a clusterfck that would have been.

No, just no. Do not leave him in the G League until the trade deadline or whatever date. That's ridiculous. Play him in NBA games ASAP.

If they want to give him another few G League games, fine, but he should be getting some form of playing time at the NBA level by the end of the month at the absolute latest.

[DuckIII]

G League has never been beneficial for anyone. It's a waste for NBA level players.

The G-League is a mixed bag. Our own roster last year provides a perfect illustration. We had Matas, who spend a year in the G that ended up tanking his draft stock thank god. And we had Caruso who made his bones in the G and earned his way up to the NBA and then became an elite winning role player.

Every situation is unique. Some guys will benefit, some won't.

[DuckIII]

Honest question, in the last 25 years has there been a top 12 pick that received DNP-CD through his first ten games?

The better question is whether that question is relevant to anything beyond the parameters of the question itself. Does the answer mean anything?

[Chi town]

Noa on a month to month program.

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[DuckIII]

Solid first game for Noa Essengue. I want them to just leave him there and let him run. He should be brought back to the senior squad after the All Star break. I will be focusing on Noa's shooting, finishing, and rim protection. Let the kid play basketball.

Here's what they should do: Exactly what they think is best for developing him into the type of player they are trying to create, whether that included GL stints or playing him 35 minutes a game while Okoro rots on the bench.

None of us know even a tiny fraction of the information the organization has. And for all the emotional groaning Bulls fans engage about player development, our team has plenty of players who were developed in different ways and it by and large has turned out quite well.

Coby was brought along more slowly.

Ayo was thrown into the fire.

Pat was gifted a starting role due to roster construction.

Matas was brought along slowly despite there being plenty of room in the rotation for him to play a lot more than he did, especially early.

Terry and Phillips don't really matter, but in my opinion Dalen Terry has become about as good as he can hope to be. Its not his fault he's not a real NBA player, but he's certainly improved during his time here.

If anything, the recent example of failure with Pat, who showed plenty of talent but was played as an afterthought with no genuine opportunity to work on his on-ball skills at the NBA level due to roster construction. Sound like a familiar situation with Noa? Perhaps they learned from Pat.

Its just absurdly premature to be concerned with or critical of any of this. There's not one single thing anyone can point to that would suggest what the Bulls are doing is unwise or won't work, 10 games into this dude's career. Everyone needs a xanax.

[dougthonus]

The G-League is a mixed bag. Our own roster last year provides a perfect illustration. We had Matas, who spend a year in the G that ended up tanking his draft stock thank god. And we had Caruso who made his bones in the G and earned his way up to the NBA and then became an elite winning role player.

Every situation is unique. Some guys will benefit, some won't.

Was the G-League beneficial for Caruso, like did he become a better player by being in the G-League vs if he had made an NBA roster right away or was the G-League a necessary step for him because no team was initially willing to take a chance on him? Those are two different things. I don't think the Caruso case really applies to a 1st round draft choice. There have certainly been other players that worked up through the G-League, but that doesn't mean that was their optimal development path, most of them were forced into it due to lack of alternatives.

In terms of Matas, I would guess that the Bulls view his time in the G-League as highly useful to his development and view his development path last year as a model to replicate and would look at him today and say "see how well this worked?" in terms of him doing some early G-League stints and not getting as much NBA action early on.

They're now perhaps doubling down even more on that model, thinking we shouldn't have played Matas at all early and let him cut his teeth in the G-League more and then be ready for the NBA.

We only get to see it play out in one direction. Maybe Matas would have been better simply playing more in the NBA right away, maybe not, maybe it had nothing to do with either and was just due to team direction change post Zach and switching to a more up tempo Giddey led offense. That's the tough thing about this discussion to a point is that there really isn't all that much data and thus it's really hard to get a causal relationship formed.

Most of us (including me) are mostly arguing on our prior beliefs, conventional wisdom, and theoretical ideas.

[DuckIII]

Honest question, in the last 25 years has there been a top 12 pick that received DNP-CD through his first ten games?

Not sure but we need to remember b he plays for the Bulls and Billy in the coach.

Matas averaged 8 minutes per game in his first 15 games. It’s clearly their preferred method.

But he played Pat 23+ from Day 1. Fans should find this to be a positive, reassuring sign. It means that BD - like any coach who has any idea how to develop players - understands that each situation and player is different and there is no one right way.

[DuckIII]

Was the G-League beneficial for Caruso, like did he become a better player by being in the G-League vs if he had made an NBA roster right away or was the G-League a necessary step for him because no team was initially willing to take a chance on him?

How could we know? Did you see the statement I was responding to? Which was that the G-League never helps anyone. Noa could stay in the G-League for two months, come in and look like a stud 3 weeks later with the Bulls, and people could just say "well, no way to know if the crappy GL actually helped, he probably could have just being doing this for us since October."

Those are two different things. I don't think the Caruso case really applies to a 1st round draft choice. There have certainly been other players that worked up through the G-League, but that doesn't mean that was their optimal development path, most of them were forced into it due to lack of alternatives.

Is someone arguing that Noa in the GL is "optimal"? And if anyone were to make that argument, it would be BS because how could they possibly know?

That's the tough thing about this discussion to a point is that there really isn't all that much data and thus it's really hard to get a causal relationship formed.

I agree. Then why are people arguing it? Just let it play out. There's nothing inherently concerning about any of this 10 games into a player's career.

[Red Larrivee]

Honest question, in the last 25 years has there been a top 12 pick that received DNP-CD through his first ten games?

Not sure but we need to remember b he plays for the Bulls and Billy in the coach.

Matas averaged 8 minutes per game in his first 15 games. It’s clearly their preferred method.

But he played Pat 23+ from Day 1. Fans should find this to be a positive, reassuring sign. It means that BD - like any coach who has any idea how to develop players - understands that each situation and player is different and there is no one right way.

Also, Terry never exceeded 10 minutes in a game until February of his rookie season. There were a lot of DNPs in that stretch before. Obviously, this ended up being very foreshadowing, but it still shows they're taking rookies on a personalized approach. I prefer that over just tossing anyone out there into the rotation. Charlotte did that with a similarly raw player in Salaun last year and it did nothing for him.

[DuckIII]

The offense isn't going to run like an NBA offense
His role won't be like it will be in the NBA
He won't start building bonds with his NBA teammates / coaches (and all the pieces that come with that)
He won't practice against NBA caliber players
The teammates are largely trying to show out so they can get a call up to a league making 10x as much money (be NBA or Europe)

1. No kidding. Because in the GL they are focusing on him playing on-ball and making decisions, which will be zero % of the Bulls offense. Its exactly the point for the assignment, as the Bulls have publicly stated and then did last night. What is your criticism of that, specifically?

2. No kidding again. His role will be vastly different, which again is why they sent him down there.

3. Who cares? Its 10 games into his career and we aren't contenders. He won't even be playing with a number of these guys by the time it really matters anyway.

4. Since the reason they have him down there is to get comfortable with greater responsibility operating with the ball, having him do that against Okoro and Williams with his training wheels on isn't the best idea, to say the least. Moreover, the Bulls have limited practice time in season. They aren't going to spend a bunch of it creating non-game scenarios that won't be part of this year's strategy at all. Unless Noa advances through this progression to the point that later in the season it becomes possible (albeit incredibly unlikely anyway)

5. That's a good thing. They'll defend him hard as hell.

I think Noa can contribute today and think he would develop faster and better contributing today vs going to the G-League.

I think he can contribute today as well. But what he contributes today is more or less meaningless to me. Its what he will contribute later after being properly developed that matters. You have a preference for how to develop him, fine. But that's not the same thing as what the Bulls are doing as being improper or meaning anything whatsoever about how they view Noa.

It's very different than what 98% of player's in his position are doing, and I don't think it's better.

I'd like to see this list. I can't think of one single rookie in this draft "in his position" and I bet if I took the time to drill down into the last 10-15 years of drafts, which I won't, I suspect I'd find very few comps there as well.

[Ice Man]

Most of us (including me) are mostly arguing on our prior beliefs, conventional wisdom, and theoretical ideas.

Until somebody performs a well-designed study about the various approaches to NBA development, with proper data and statistics, your comment applies to all.

[jnrjr79]

Honest question, in the last 25 years has there been a top 12 pick that received DNP-CD through his first ten games?

Not sure but we need to remember b he plays for the Bulls and Billy in the coach.

Matas averaged 8 minutes per game in his first 15 games. It’s clearly their preferred method.

But he played Pat 23+ from Day 1. Fans should find this to be a positive, reassuring sign. It means that BD - like any coach who has any idea how to develop players - understands that each situation and player is different and there is no one right way.

I think it's also possible that the big minutes handed out to Pat have served as a sort of internal cautionary tale for the org, causing them now to want to develop draft picks more slowly. Yes, Ayo was given minutes early, but I think he's distinguishable because 1) he's a 2nd rounder and therefore theoretically less important, and 2) he was old/had lots of college experience.

If the Bulls had Cooper Flagg, I'm sure they'd be playing him now, but they seem to be pretty cautious these days with guys that are raw.

[dougthonus]

1. No kidding. Because in the GL they are focusing on him playing on-ball and making decisions, which will be zero % of the Bulls offense. Its exactly the point for the assignment, as the Bulls have publicly stated then did last night. What is your criticism of that, specifically?

2. No kidding again. His role will be vastly different, which again is why they sent him down there.

It doesn't prepare him for his role with the NBA team which likely not be doing that. Nor does it particularly develop that attribute for high end competition playing that role against low end players. If he is going to eventually be an on-ball player, getting some on-ball reps in practice against NBA teams will help him now.

I do learning and development for people all the time as one of my responsibilities in my role. If I send someone to go train on Python in an environment completely unlike my own, then don't actually reinforce that training in my environment immediately, the training is a waste. Getting Noa on ball reps in the G-League isn't all that useful to begin with, but it's even less useful if you are going to bring him up into the NBA then ask him to play totally differently.

You aren't preparing him for the road ahead. Maybe he will eventually be an on-ball guy, but you then want to focus your development of that skill closer to when you expect to actually use it. Most guys probably develop the majority of their offensive skills in the off-seasons then look to apply them in the game.

Having him develop his team defense skills and reading opposing offenses and developing his chemistry and rotations against NBA caliber offenses with his NBA teammates seems like a vastly more useful thing for him to develop at this point in time.

Which is why I said, I don't think our front office is lying, but I don't think it's the correct thing to do. I've mentored probably 50+ young professionals in their careers, and I would never take the path like this. My experience is obviously not on the basketball court, but the principle of you train people in what they can apply right away so the skills get drilled in and stick feels quite applicable to me.

3. Who cares? Its 10 games into his career and we aren't contenders. He won't even be playing with a number of these guys by the time it really matters anyway.

I suspect he'll be playing with a good chunk of these guys for the next four years.

4. Since the reason they have him down there is to get comfortable with greater responsibility operating with the ball, having him do that against Okoro and Williams with his training wheels on isn't the best idea, to say the least. Moreover, the Bulls have limited practice time in season. They aren't going to spend a bunch of it creating non-game scenarios that won't be part of this year's strategy at all. Unless Noa advances through this progression to the point that later in the season it becomes possible (albeit incredibly unlikely anyway)

I think that reason is fundamentally bad because it is mismatched with how he will be used in the NBA, nor do I think the G-League is the best way to develop offensive skills (or even a good way) or to fit into an NBA offense, and developing them against sub par players isn't going to translate, then quickly abandoning all that practice to not really use those skills meaningfully when you get to the NBA makes the scenario worthless.

5. That's a good thing. They'll defend him hard as hell.

I don't think the G-League has a reputation of defending hard as hell. They have a reputation of extraordinarily selfish, non-team oriented play.

I think he can contribute today as well. But what he contributes today is more or less meaningless to me. Its what he will contribute later after being properly developed that matters. You have a preference for how to develop him, fine. But that's not the same thing as what the Bulls are doing as being improper or meaning anything whatsoever about how they view Noa.

No, there's no way to know if what the bulls are doing is improper, but:
1: It's not what teams do generally
2: I have described in great length why I think it is improper with specific examples
3: I don't find any of the counter arguments compelling, and think my counters to those arguments are more compelling

As I stated though, I don't think this is a binary scenario. If what I would prefer is in fact better by say 20%, then doing 20% better on development for 3 months probably has an overall very miniscule effect on the end outcome.

I'd like to see this list. I can't think of one single rookie in this draft "in his position" and I bet if I took the time to drill down into the last 10-15 years of drafts, which I won't, I suspect I'd find very few comps there as well.

I don't define "in his position" as some incredibly unique thing like you do. There's nothing super unique about his position to me. He's a raw, athletic prospect that is young and needs to add muscle. I think there are many players like that every year.

Again, it's not a huge deal, but I don't think this is the right thing or will speed his development any, but I don't think it's a doomsday scenario either. TBH, I'd rather have him stay at the advocate center and work with a player development coach individually all day than go to the G-League.

[MrSparkle]

For some reason this FO has to re-invent the wheel in the strangest ways. 45 rookies have played an NBA game so far, out of 59 drafted. Of course the Bulls’ 12th pick is the only (healthy) 1st rounder in the league to not get a minute…. Despite injuries and a league-worst bench PF rotation of Pat, Terry, Phillips.

In the entire history of the NBA, good lottery picks joined the team and learned on the road, regardless whether they were 18, 20, or 23. For some reason, the guy with pro Euro experience is going to benefit playing in the G-League over competing with Patrick and Terry for their undeserved minutes.

[jnrjr79]

1. No kidding. Because in the GL they are focusing on him playing on-ball and making decisions, which will be zero % of the Bulls offense. Its exactly the point for the assignment, as the Bulls have publicly stated then did last night. What is your criticism of that, specifically?

2. No kidding again. His role will be vastly different, which again is why they sent him down there.

It doesn't prepare him for his role with the NBA team which likely not be doing that. Nor does it particularly develop that attribute for high end competition playing that role against low end players. If he is going to eventually be an on-ball player, getting some on-ball reps in practice against NBA teams will help him now.

I do learning and development for people all the time as one of my responsibilities in my role. If I send someone to go train on Python in an environment completely unlike my own, then don't actually reinforce that training in my environment immediately, the training is a waste. Getting Noa on ball reps in the G-League isn't all that useful to begin with, but it's even less useful if you are going to bring him up into the NBA then ask him to play totally differently.

You aren't preparing him for the road ahead. Maybe he will eventually be an on-ball guy, but you then want to focus your development of that skill closer to when you expect to actually use it. Most guys probably develop the majority of their offensive skills in the off-seasons then look to apply them in the game.

Having him develop his team defense skills and reading opposing offenses and developing his chemistry and rotations against NBA caliber offenses with his NBA teammates seems like a vastly more useful thing for him to develop at this point in time.

Which is why I said, I don't think our front office is lying, but I don't think it's the correct thing to do. I've mentored probably 50+ young professionals in their careers, and I would never take the path like this. My experience is obviously not on the basketball court, but the principle of you train people in what they can apply right away so the skills get drilled in and stick feels quite applicable to me.

3. Who cares? Its 10 games into his career and we aren't contenders. He won't even be playing with a number of these guys by the time it really matters anyway.

I suspect he'll be playing with a good chunk of these guys for the next four years.

4. Since the reason they have him down there is to get comfortable with greater responsibility operating with the ball, having him do that against Okoro and Williams with his training wheels on isn't the best idea, to say the least. Moreover, the Bulls have limited practice time in season. They aren't going to spend a bunch of it creating non-game scenarios that won't be part of this year's strategy at all. Unless Noa advances through this progression to the point that later in the season it becomes possible (albeit incredibly unlikely anyway)

I think that reason is fundamentally bad because it is mismatched with how he will be used in the NBA, nor do I think the G-League is the best way to develop offensive skills (or even a good way) or to fit into an NBA offense, and developing them against sub par players isn't going to translate, then quickly abandoning all that practice to not really use those skills meaningfully when you get to the NBA makes the scenario worthless.

5. That's a good thing. They'll defend him hard as hell.

I don't think the G-League has a reputation of defending hard as hell. They have a reputation of extraordinarily selfish, non-team oriented play.

I think he can contribute today as well. But what he contributes today is more or less meaningless to me. Its what he will contribute later after being properly developed that matters. You have a preference for how to develop him, fine. But that's not the same thing as what the Bulls are doing as being improper or meaning anything whatsoever about how they view Noa.

No, there's no way to know if what the bulls are doing is improper, but:
1: It's not what teams do generally
2: I have described in great length why I think it is improper with specific examples
3: I don't find any of the counter arguments compelling, and think my counters to those arguments are more compelling

As I stated though, I don't think this is a binary scenario. If what I would prefer is in fact better by say 20%, then doing 20% better on development for 3 months probably has an overall very miniscule effect on the end outcome.

I'd like to see this list. I can't think of one single rookie in this draft "in his position" and I bet if I took the time to drill down into the last 10-15 years of drafts, which I won't, I suspect I'd find very few comps there as well.

I don't define "in his position" as some incredibly unique thing like you do. There's nothing super unique about his position to me. He's a raw, athletic prospect that is young and needs to add muscle. I think there are many players like that every year.

Again, it's not a huge deal, but I don't think this is the right thing or will speed his development any, but I don't think it's a doomsday scenario either. TBH, I'd rather have him stay at the advocate center and work with a player development coach individually all day than go to the G-League.

Two things I'd say about this:

1) I don't know how important it is to prepare Noa for his "role," which if I understand your post here, is basically a rotational backup player. The Bulls obviously hope he becomes more than that, so I do not know how much importance I'd put on preparing him for it, even if that's what he'll be in the short-term. Basically every NBA player had a huge role at a lower level of basketball and learned to adapt to whatever they have in the NBA. Is this any different than Essengue being a star player in college or whatever?

2) I'm just not all that convinced it'll make much of a difference if he's playing in the rotation by the end of the season regardless of which approach you take. Does 5 minutes a night in the NBA for the next couple of months develop him better than bigger minutes in the G League (while still practicing some with his NBA squad)? I have no strong opinion.