jakobe & Dick were bad picks

[Los_29]

You guys are haters man

homer glasses. Scottie is 4th at best right now.
Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Franz, Austin Reaves could surpass him too

i wouldn't say reaves yet

but guys liek Franz, Giddey ahead of him have shown they can carry the offensve of their team which is pretty signficant

Giddey got traded for Caruso because he was nearly unplayable in the playoffs. Scottie has his faults but he would never be unplayable in meaningful games.

Franz is a fantastic player but I think people also forget how bad of a three point shooter he is. I have never seen Franz carry the offense of their team. Magic have been a quite atrocious offensive team so he can’t be carrying them very well.

[Jadoogar]

You guys are haters man

homer glasses. Scottie is 4th at best right now.
Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Franz, Austin Reaves could surpass him too

i wouldn't say reaves yet

but guys liek Franz, Giddey ahead of him have shown they can carry the offensve of their team which is pretty signficant

Reaves is averaging 30/5/9 this year. Obviously small sample size but i don't think it's outrageous to suggest he might end up better.

[brownbobcat]

Reaves is averaging 30/5/9 this year. Obviously small sample size but i don't think it's outrageous to suggest he might end up better.

There were some people on this board last year who thought Poeltl was better than Reaves, I don't know what to tell you.

[anotherhomer]

homer glasses. Scottie is 4th at best right now.
Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Franz, Austin Reaves could surpass him too

i wouldn't say reaves yet

but guys liek Franz, Giddey ahead of him have shown they can carry the offensve of their team which is pretty signficant

Giddey got traded for Caruso because he was nearly unplayable in the playoffs. Scottie has his faults but he would never be unplayable in meaningful games.

Franz is a fantastic player but I think people also forget how bad of a three point shooter he is. I have never seen Franz carry the offense of their team. Magic have been a quite atrocious offensive team so he can’t be carrying them very well.

giddey is a good but flawed player which limits upside

in the same way, IQ and RJ are both good players but flawed which critically limit the ceiling of the team

[PushDaRock]

Reaves is averaging 30/5/9 this year. Obviously small sample size but i don't think it's outrageous to suggest he might end up better.

There were some people on this board last year who thought Poeltl was better than Reaves, I don't know what to tell you.

This board seems to hate anyone that's not a plus defender so it's not surprising.

[YogurtProducer]

Barnes and Mobley are very equal to me now. I think the passing is really important for transition offense and the lower turnover rate can't be overlooked.

I'd accept Mobley for Barnes in a heartbeat still I think.

[Raps in 4]

Barnes and Mobley are very equal to me now. I think the passing is really important for transition offense and the lower turnover rate can't be overlooked.

I'd accept Mobley for Barnes in a heartbeat still I think.

I probably would too because he's an easier piece to slot into any roster. A defense-first big who doesn't need the ball is always valuable. But I do also think Mobley is massively overrated. He's a super role player who isn't being asked to run an offense.

[Boselecta]

People especially on this forum seriously overrate draft picks. But I get it, they’re basically like lottery tickets. You buy into the hope, even though deep down you know the odds are terrible. In reality, the chances of landing even a solid starter outside the top 10 are extremely low. Guys like Jakobe and Dick are exactly what you’d expect from those picks if you’re being realistic average players, not franchise changers.

[ATLTimekeeper]

homer glasses. Scottie is 4th at best right now.
Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Franz, Austin Reaves could surpass him too

i wouldn't say reaves yet

but guys liek Franz, Giddey ahead of him have shown they can carry the offensve of their team which is pretty signficant

Giddey got traded for Caruso because he was nearly unplayable in the playoffs. Scottie has his faults but he would never be unplayable in meaningful games.

Franz is a fantastic player but I think people also forget how bad of a three point shooter he is. I have never seen Franz carry the offense of their team. Magic have been a quite atrocious offensive team so he can’t be carrying them very well.

But that was at age 21, and only for one round. Giddey's raised his level of play significantly in Chicago and while it's still not a long enough stretch to trust, if this is indeed his level he's very much on par with Barnes (and Wagner).

Also, I don't think you can slam Wagner for Orlando's weak offense. Historically their offense is much better with him on than off. That is 'carrying.'

[nikster]

i wouldn't say reaves yet

but guys liek Franz, Giddey ahead of him have shown they can carry the offensve of their team which is pretty signficant

Giddey got traded for Caruso because he was nearly unplayable in the playoffs. Scottie has his faults but he would never be unplayable in meaningful games.

Franz is a fantastic player but I think people also forget how bad of a three point shooter he is. I have never seen Franz carry the offense of their team. Magic have been a quite atrocious offensive team so he can’t be carrying them very well.

But that was at age 21, and only for one round. Giddey's raised his level of play significantly in Chicago and while it's still not a long enough stretch to trust, if this is indeed his level he's very much on par with Barnes (and Wagner).

Also, I don't think you can slam Wagner for Orlando's weak offense. Historically their offense is much better with him on than off. That is 'carrying.'

How meaningful is carrying when theyve still been terrible overall. Last year was his breakout year statistically and they were 27th by offensive rating. 22nd year before. They added Bane now and are still sitting at 20th

[anotherhomer]

Giddey got traded for Caruso because he was nearly unplayable in the playoffs. Scottie has his faults but he would never be unplayable in meaningful games.

Franz is a fantastic player but I think people also forget how bad of a three point shooter he is. I have never seen Franz carry the offense of their team. Magic have been a quite atrocious offensive team so he can’t be carrying them very well.

But that was at age 21, and only for one round. Giddey's raised his level of play significantly in Chicago and while it's still not a long enough stretch to trust, if this is indeed his level he's very much on par with Barnes (and Wagner).

Also, I don't think you can slam Wagner for Orlando's weak offense. Historically their offense is much better with him on than off. That is 'carrying.'

How meaningful is carrying when theyve still been terrible overall. Last year was his breakout year statistically and they were 27th by offensive rating. 22nd year before. They added Bane now and are still sitting at 20th

it's amazing how realgmers are in denial how guys like Algerun, Franz and Giddey has leapfrogged Barnes

Barnes is a really good player but the ability to carry the offense on a winning team isn't something insignficant.

[Boogie!]

[*]

But that was at age 21, and only for one round. Giddey's raised his level of play significantly in Chicago and while it's still not a long enough stretch to trust, if this is indeed his level he's very much on par with Barnes (and Wagner).

Also, I don't think you can slam Wagner for Orlando's weak offense. Historically their offense is much better with him on than off. That is 'carrying.'

How meaningful is carrying when theyve still been terrible overall. Last year was his breakout year statistically and they were 27th by offensive rating. 22nd year before. They added Bane now and are still sitting at 20th

it's amazing how realgmers are in denial how guys like Algerun, Franz and Giddey has leapfrogged Barnes

Barnes is a really good player but the ability to carry the offense on a winning team isn't something insignficant.

I mean I guess Barnes is exactly who he was scouted to be… the issue is we all expected/ wanted offensive improvement because the organization/pr team started hyping him up as the franchise cornerstone but unfortunately his skillset is what it is. Again if he can have a more reliable 3 point shot that he uses as a weapon (not just an occasional, I’m feeling good today let me jack up a couple) but to the point where he’s a threat that defenses are afraid to leave him open, it’ll expand his offensive game much more.

The main thing that disappoints me about him offensively is that his playmaking/ passing isn’t as elite as it was hyped up to be either. He’s definitely good in that regard. He does have natural instincts… but he also still makes a bunch of dumb passes/ decisions that you wouldn’t expect from someone that’s supposed to be this elite playmaker.

Also, his defense hasn’t been as elite as expected either. He’s not really great 1 on 1, doesn’t play the passing lanes for steals, doesn’t take charges or block ahots at an elite rate. Again he’s pretty good jack of all trades type guy, but not necessarily this franchise altering/cornerstone piece that’s gonna make your team a contender on his own.

That being said none of the top draft picks from that class are really superstars tbh, and I would still put Barnes in the same tier as all of them (Cade, mobley, Wagner, green) so we did well considering the options.

[anotherhomer]

[*]

How meaningful is carrying when theyve still been terrible overall. Last year was his breakout year statistically and they were 27th by offensive rating. 22nd year before. They added Bane now and are still sitting at 20th

it's amazing how realgmers are in denial how guys like Algerun, Franz and Giddey has leapfrogged Barnes

Barnes is a really good player but the ability to carry the offense on a winning team isn't something insignficant.

I mean I guess Barnes is exactly who he was scouted to be… the issue is we all expected/ wanted offensive improvement because the organization/pr team started hyping him up as the franchise cornerstone but unfortunately his skillset is what it is. Again if he can have a more reliable 3 point shot that he uses as a weapon (not just an occasional, I’m feeling good today let me jack up a couple) but to the point where he’s a threat that defenses are afraid to leave him open, it’ll expand his offensive game much more.

The main thing that disappoints me about him offensively is that his playmaking/ passing isn’t as elite as it was hyped up to be either. He’s definitely good in that regard. He does have natural instincts… but he also still makes a bunch of dumb passes/ decisions that you wouldn’t expect from someone that’s supposed to be this elite playmaker.

Also, his defense hasn’t been as elite as expected either. He’s not really great 1 on 1, doesn’t play the passing lanes for steals, doesn’t take charges or block ahots at an elite rate. Again he’s pretty good jack of all trades type guy, but not necessarily this franchise altering/cornerstone piece that’s gonna make your team a contender on his own.

That being said none of the top draft picks from that class are really superstars tbh, and I would still put Barnes in the same tier as all of them (Cade, mobley, Wagner, green) so we did well considering the options.

The jack of all trades aaron Gordon is the problem....thats why im not against trading scottie

[brownbobcat]

I mean I guess Barnes is exactly who he was scouted to be… the issue is we all expected/ wanted offensive improvement because the organization/pr team started hyping him up as the franchise cornerstone but unfortunately his skillset is what it is. Again if he can have a more reliable 3 point shot that he uses as a weapon (not just an occasional, I’m feeling good today let me jack up a couple) but to the point where he’s a threat that defenses are afraid to leave him open, it’ll expand his offensive game much more.

The main thing that disappoints me about him offensively is that his playmaking/ passing isn’t as elite as it was hyped up to be either. He’s definitely good in that regard. He does have natural instincts… but he also still makes a bunch of dumb passes/ decisions that you wouldn’t expect from someone that’s supposed to be this elite playmaker.

Also, his defense hasn’t been as elite as expected either. He’s not really great 1 on 1, doesn’t play the passing lanes for steals, doesn’t take charges or block ahots at an elite rate. Again he’s pretty good jack of all trades type guy, but not necessarily this franchise altering/cornerstone piece that’s gonna make your team a contender on his own.

That being said none of the top draft picks from that class are really superstars tbh, and I would still put Barnes in the same tier as all of them (Cade, mobley, Wagner, green) so we did well considering the options.

I don't think the door is closed yet on Barnes' potential, but the progression of his technical skills has been disappointing. I always think about what Darko said a few years ago:

.

If you're really good at one thing in the NBA, you gonna find your contract, you gonna survive in this league.

If you're really good at two things, you are a heck of a player. If you're really good at three things – you are an All-Star. If you think you are really good at four things, you're probably out of the league and playing in Europe.

[Boogie!]

I mean I guess Barnes is exactly who he was scouted to be… the issue is we all expected/ wanted offensive improvement because the organization/pr team started hyping him up as the franchise cornerstone but unfortunately his skillset is what it is. Again if he can have a more reliable 3 point shot that he uses as a weapon (not just an occasional, I’m feeling good today let me jack up a couple) but to the point where he’s a threat that defenses are afraid to leave him open, it’ll expand his offensive game much more.

The main thing that disappoints me about him offensively is that his playmaking/ passing isn’t as elite as it was hyped up to be either. He’s definitely good in that regard. He does have natural instincts… but he also still makes a bunch of dumb passes/ decisions that you wouldn’t expect from someone that’s supposed to be this elite playmaker.

Also, his defense hasn’t been as elite as expected either. He’s not really great 1 on 1, doesn’t play the passing lanes for steals, doesn’t take charges or block ahots at an elite rate. Again he’s pretty good jack of all trades type guy, but not necessarily this franchise altering/cornerstone piece that’s gonna make your team a contender on his own.

That being said none of the top draft picks from that class are really superstars tbh, and I would still put Barnes in the same tier as all of them (Cade, mobley, Wagner, green) so we did well considering the options.

I don't think the door is closed yet on Barnes' potential, but the progression of his technical skills has been disappointing. I always think about what Darko said a few years ago:

.

If you're really good at one thing in the NBA, you gonna find your contract, you gonna survive in this league.

If you're really good at two things, you are a heck of a player. If you're really good at three things – you are an All-Star. If you think you are really good at four things, you're probably out of the league and playing in Europe.

It’s his 5th year, again his potential is based on his ability to shoot. That’s pretty much it. I don’t understand the concept of being good at 4 things meaning you’re out of the league within the context of that quote. Is he saying you’re delusional if you think you’re good at 4 things? Because he doesn’t use the concept of personal perception for the first 3.

[brownbobcat]

It’s his 5th year, again his potential is based on his ability to shoot. That’s pretty much it. I don’t understand the concept of being good at 4 things meaning you’re out of the league within the context of that quote. Is he saying you’re delusional if you think you’re good at 4 things? Because he doesn’t use the concept of personal perception for the first 3.

Shooting is very important, but it isn't the only thing that has lacked significant technical improvement. Footwork, ballhanding, passing accuracy (to your point about playmaking).

The point Darko was making was that if you overestimate your abilities at the NBA level, you probably won't embrace/know your role in the league. Now, obviously Barnes is a good player and in no danger of exiting the league any time soon - but it's worth noting Darko wasn't just speaking in generalities, but about Barnes specifically.

You cannot be extremely good at everything. That's a problem I'm having because he's [Barnes] good at multiple things. We have to find 2 or 3 of those things that he's gonna really take a jump to the next level and become an All-Star player, which I believe he is

[PushDaRock]

It’s his 5th year, again his potential is based on his ability to shoot. That’s pretty much it. I don’t understand the concept of being good at 4 things meaning you’re out of the league within the context of that quote. Is he saying you’re delusional if you think you’re good at 4 things? Because he doesn’t use the concept of personal perception for the first 3.

Shooting is very important, but it isn't the only thing that has lacked significant technical improvement. Footwork, ballhanding, passing accuracy (to your point about playmaking).

The point Darko was making was that if you overestimate your abilities at the NBA level, you probably won't embrace/know your role in the league. Now, obviously Barnes is a good player and in no danger of exiting the league any time soon - but it's worth noting Darko wasn't just speaking in generalities, but about Barnes specifically.

You cannot be extremely good at everything. That's a problem I'm having because he's [Barnes] good at multiple things. We have to find 2 or 3 of those things that he's gonna really take a jump to the next level and become an All-Star player, which I believe he is

Never saw that Darko quote before, it's good that they are aware of this.

[nikster]

But that was at age 21, and only for one round. Giddey's raised his level of play significantly in Chicago and while it's still not a long enough stretch to trust, if this is indeed his level he's very much on par with Barnes (and Wagner).

Also, I don't think you can slam Wagner for Orlando's weak offense. Historically their offense is much better with him on than off. That is 'carrying.'

How meaningful is carrying when theyve still been terrible overall. Last year was his breakout year statistically and they were 27th by offensive rating. 22nd year before. They added Bane now and are still sitting at 20th

it's amazing how realgmers are in denial how guys like Algerun, Franz and Giddey has leapfrogged Barnes

Barnes is a really good player but the ability to carry the offense on a winning team isn't something insignficant.

Nothing to do with Barnes, Franz was clerley better than him last year (gap looks closer this year tho). Being able to carry the offense for a 27th ranked offenses is fairly insignificant imo. They were a winning team because of elite defense. Their offense sucked.

[anotherhomer]

It’s his 5th year, again his potential is based on his ability to shoot. That’s pretty much it. I don’t understand the concept of being good at 4 things meaning you’re out of the league within the context of that quote. Is he saying you’re delusional if you think you’re good at 4 things? Because he doesn’t use the concept of personal perception for the first 3.

Shooting is very important, but it isn't the only thing that has lacked significant technical improvement. Footwork, ballhanding, passing accuracy (to your point about playmaking).

The point Darko was making was that if you overestimate your abilities at the NBA level, you probably won't embrace/know your role in the league. Now, obviously Barnes is a good player and in no danger of exiting the league any time soon - but it's worth noting Darko wasn't just speaking in generalities, but about Barnes specifically.

You cannot be extremely good at everything. That's a problem I'm having because he's [Barnes] good at multiple things. We have to find 2 or 3 of those things that he's gonna really take a jump to the next level and become an All-Star player, which I believe he is

Never saw that Darko quote before, it's good that they are aware of this.

i remember Darko mention something like that in his first year, they eventually have to figure out what are the 3 areas to focus on for Barnes.

[Los_29]

But that was at age 21, and only for one round. Giddey's raised his level of play significantly in Chicago and while it's still not a long enough stretch to trust, if this is indeed his level he's very much on par with Barnes (and Wagner).

Also, I don't think you can slam Wagner for Orlando's weak offense. Historically their offense is much better with him on than off. That is 'carrying.'

How meaningful is carrying when theyve still been terrible overall. Last year was his breakout year statistically and they were 27th by offensive rating. 22nd year before. They added Bane now and are still sitting at 20th

it's amazing how realgmers are in denial how guys like Algerun, Franz and Giddey has leapfrogged Barnes

Barnes is a really good player but the ability to carry the offense on a winning team isn't something insignficant.

But they aren’t carrying the offense because Magic’s offense stinks. That’s the whole point. I wouldn’t say the best defensive player on the worst defensive team is carrying the defense. It’s absurd. lol.