Where do you rank Kawhi in your all-time list?

[3ddman23]

In a way, he is the luckiest player of all time. Had he not been drafted to the Spurs or traded to the Raptors who had a roster perfectly suited for him, he could very likely be another Brandon Roy. His quad/knee was always a ticking time bomb and he landed in the right places to win rings. He could have very easily been a 0 time champ with a couple DPOY awards and that's it in a different universe

That said, while he is a persona non-grata to Spurs fan, it is hard to deny his resume. He is at worst a top 30 player all-time

That's just the name of the game that completely gets over looked when rating players... So much lucky is needed for player success. We would all be singing a different song for a player like mcgrady if Duncan actually leaves and goes to Orlando. But it didn't happen. Butterfly effect. One small changes the outcome drastically for something(although Duncan to Orlando wouldn't have been a small change, you get what I'm saying lol).

[MrIrrelevant]

After the Aspiration saga, I have zero positive feelings towards Kawhi. He is a greedy cheat who is purely selfish. He barely even played either. I’ll always respect his peak performance but I can’t in good conscience put him in the top 25 or even 30 all time taking his career as a whole.

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

The RealGM site when it did its top 100 rankings from 2023 had him at 34, below the following players. I cannot put him over any of them, because I hate Kawhi Leonard and everything his greedy selfish personality stands for. So #34 all time it is.

1. LeBron James
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Michael Jordan
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Magic Johnson
11. Steph Curry
12. Larry Bird
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Jerry West
15. Oscar Robertson
16. George Mikan
17. David Robinson
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Karl Malone
20. Chris Paul
21. Julius Erving
22. Kevin Durant
23. Moses Malone
24. Steve Nash
25. Giannis Antetokounmpo
26. Nikola Jokic
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Charles Barkley
29. James Harden
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Bob Pettit
32. Scottie Pippen
33. John Stockton

Interesting list - I think he's generally better than 27-33 on that list. I would say around 25 makes a lot of sense. Kawhi is like the anti-Harden.

[Effigy]

He's in the Bill Walton tier. Incredible player who you can't totally accurately rank due to injury

[Message Boar]

Sheesh, that's a hard one. He's probably somewhere between 25 and 40 all time I guess?

[Stan]

I've got him top 30, but he had the talent to be top 15.

[hagredionis]

Somewhere around 50.

[itrsteve]

At his prime he was my favorite player to watch, such a complete player.

With that being said "all-time" is a lot. I could see him in the top 40's

[Blame Rasho]

He's in the Bill Walton tier. Incredible player who you can't totally accurately rank due to injury

This is likely the best post here because you are exactly correct.

[The Laker Kid]

Exactly at # 79

[Tacoma]

If he could have won 1 more chip, I would have put him up there with Dirk and Paul Peirce, but since he hasn't, its making the Toronto chip look more like a fluke.

Not following your chip logic at all.

Why does he need one more chip to be up there with Dirk & Pierce? Kawhi already has one more chip than both, so if chips is a key factor as you seem to be saying, then Kawhi has already has more chips and FMVP's then both and so by your chip logic he should already be ahead of both.

And how does him not winning a 3rd chip make the Toronto chip look more like a fluke? Kawhi is a great player but not a leader. Both @TO and @SA, Kawhi was surrounded with really good veteran leaders (Duncan/Parker in SA and Lowry/Gasol in TO) providing an effective foundation enabling Kawhi to do on the court what he does best & win. In LA, he was expected to be the leader which he's not good at, so he failed in LA. It's no fluke.

[Mister Ze]

He had one of the best finals runs in NBA history; ~30/9/4 with around 50% FG% going through Embiid/Giannis/Curry. If he stayed healthy he would have flirted with top 10 all time because there's not many lock-down defenders who are also the best offensive players on the court.

With that being said he's outside the top 20 cause greatness requires consistency.

[Johnny Firpo]

If he could have won 1 more chip, I would have put him up there with Dirk and Paul Peirce, but since he hasn't, its making the Toronto chip look more like a fluke.

Not following your chip logic at all.

Why does he need one more chip to be up there with Dirk & Pierce? Kawhi already has one more chip than both, so if chips is a key factor as you seem to be saying, then Kawhi has already has more chips and FMVP's then both and so by your chip logic he should already be ahead of both.

And how does him not winning a 3rd chip make the Toronto chip look more like a fluke? Kawhi is a great player but not a leader. Both @TO and @SA, Kawhi was surrounded with really good veteran leaders (Duncan/Parker in SA and Lowry/Gasol in TO) providing an effective foundation enabling Kawhi to do on the court what he does best & win. In LA, he was expected to be the leader which he's not good at, so he failed in LA. It's no fluke.

He's very obviously prioritizing winning as the man, and even though Kawhi won the 2014 finals MVP, he was very obviously not the man there. DIrk also has an MVP over him, and like a tremendous amount of longevity advantage. Honestly, not sure how Pierce factors into this, I have outside of the top 30, and Dirk inside the top 20. Just a totally different tier. Kawhi is between the two, around the 25th, I think.

[dhsilv2]

35-45 range seems pretty reasonable without listing everyone out.

[Mattatron]

After the Aspiration saga, I have zero positive feelings towards Kawhi. He is a greedy cheat who is purely selfish. He barely even played either. I’ll always respect his peak performance but I can’t in good conscience put him in the top 25 or even 30 all time taking his career as a whole.

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

The RealGM site when it did its top 100 rankings from 2023 had him at 34, below the following players. I cannot put him over any of them, because I hate Kawhi Leonard and everything his greedy selfish personality stands for. So #34 all time it is.

1. LeBron James
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Michael Jordan
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Magic Johnson
11. Steph Curry
12. Larry Bird
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Jerry West
15. Oscar Robertson
16. George Mikan
17. David Robinson
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Karl Malone
20. Chris Paul
21. Julius Erving
22. Kevin Durant
23. Moses Malone
24. Steve Nash
25. Giannis Antetokounmpo
26. Nikola Jokic
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Charles Barkley
29. James Harden
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Bob Pettit
32. Scottie Pippen
33. John Stockton

Lol.

[FarBeyondDriven]

After the Aspiration saga, I have zero positive feelings towards Kawhi. He is a greedy cheat who is purely selfish. He barely even played either. I’ll always respect his peak performance but I can’t in good conscience put him in the top 25 or even 30 all time taking his career as a whole.

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

way more

MJ
Bird
Magic
Kareem
Lebron
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
KD
Steph
Giannis
Jokic
West
Havlicek
Hakeem
Russell
Oscar
Cousy
Dr. J
Pippen
Robinson
Thomas
Moses
Stockton
KG
Dirk
Baylor
Mikan
Walton
Wade
Barkley
McHale
Cowens
AD
Frazier
Barry
Pettit

Debatable

Iverson
Nash
Drexler
Ewing
Gervin

[DimesandKnicks]

In a way, he is the luckiest player of all time. Had he not been drafted to the Spurs or traded to the Raptors who had a roster perfectly suited for him, he could very likely be another Brandon Roy. His quad/knee was always a ticking time bomb and he landed in the right places to win rings. He could have very easily been a 0 time champ with a couple DPOY awards and that's it in a different universe

That said, while he is a persona non-grata to Spurs fan, it is hard to deny his resume. He is at worst a top 30 player all-time

Works both ways

[infinite11285]

After the Aspiration saga, I have zero positive feelings towards Kawhi. He is a greedy cheat who is purely selfish. He barely even played either. I’ll always respect his peak performance but I can’t in good conscience put him in the top 25 or even 30 all time taking his career as a whole.

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

The RealGM site when it did its top 100 rankings from 2023 had him at 34, below the following players. I cannot put him over any of them, because I hate Kawhi Leonard and everything his greedy selfish personality stands for. So #34 all time it is.

1. LeBron James
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Michael Jordan
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Magic Johnson
11. Steph Curry
12. Larry Bird
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Jerry West
15. Oscar Robertson
16. George Mikan
17. David Robinson
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Karl Malone
20. Chris Paul
21. Julius Erving
22. Kevin Durant
23. Moses Malone
24. Steve Nash
25. Giannis Antetokounmpo
26. Nikola Jokic
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Charles Barkley
29. James Harden
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Bob Pettit
32. Scottie Pippen
33. John Stockton

You couldn't put Kawhi over James Harden, Chris Paul, Patrick Ewing, Steve Nash, Giannis, or Karl Malone? I'd slot Kawhi comfortably into any of those spots.

[infinite11285]

After the Aspiration saga, I have zero positive feelings towards Kawhi. He is a greedy cheat who is purely selfish. He barely even played either. I’ll always respect his peak performance but I can’t in good conscience put him in the top 25 or even 30 all time taking his career as a whole.

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

way more

MJ
Bird
Magic
Kareem
Lebron
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
KD
Steph
Giannis
Jokic
West
Havlicek
Hakeem
Russell
Oscar
Cousy
Dr. J
Pippen
Robinson
Thomas
Moses
Stockton
KG
Dirk
Baylor
Mikan
Walton
Wade
Barkley
McHale
Cowens
AD
Frazier
Barry
Pettit

Debatable

Iverson
Nash
Drexler
Ewing
Gervin

Please tell me there's another AD not named Anthony Davis.

[DavidSterned]

SF version of Bill Walton for me. Kawhi does have a slightly better NBA resume, although Walton spent a few of his best years in college where he'd probably have been a pro in Kawhi's era. But in the overall sense they're very similar. Easily both have top 30-35 NBA peaks, but total career value-wise they're a good deal lower.

[Homer38]

SF version of Bill Walton for me. Kawhi does have a slightly better NBA resume, although Walton spent a few of his best years in college where he'd probably have been a pro in Kawhi's era. But in the overall sense they're very similar. Easily both have top 30-35 NBA peaks, but total career value-wise they're a good deal lower.

This is a very good comparaison....The only difference,Kawhi won a FMVP when he was a role player in 2014