Who's higher on your All Time List: Tim Duncan or Magic

[Meat]

Magic is the clear-cut Greatest Point Guard of all-time, and that's saying a lot because Point Guard is an extremely deep position.
Whereas Duncan is not the clear-cut greatest anything of all-time, PF or C, he's not the clear-cut GOAT of either.

curry is the greatest pg of all time and duncan is easily the best pf of all time,

[Meat]

I have Duncan at 5 and Magic at 8. Maybe it's different if Magic didn't retire at 31 or 32 while still mvp caliber.

WhoM do you rate as the #1 Point Guard in NBA history?
Longevity doesn't stop Magic from being the #1 Point Guard, so it shouldn't stop him from being better than Duncan...

steph curry

[Black Jack]

About even and even though per and vorp arent great but identical peak season per and vorp per above shows they were close.

I voted Magic since he repeated as champion and Duncan did not. At that level I view a repeat or threepeat as an important achievement.

[The4thHorseman]

What if I told you the Celtics won 13 rings in 19 seasons?

Okay, modern* NBA history.

Lakers had 5 titles and 9 finals appearances from 1980 to 1991. If Magic didn't get HIV, they might have had more finals appearances after that.

It wasn't that hard for LA (or any great team) to get to the Finals in the early 80's with first round byes and 3gm series'.

In 1980 and 82, LA had a first round bye. Then in 80' it took only 10gms to get the 8 wins needed to get to the Finals and in 82' they swept their way (8-0) to the Finals. I'm not trying to take away from their dominance, but just putting a perspective on the way things were.

[Mirotic12]

Magic is the clear-cut Greatest Point Guard of all-time, and that's saying a lot because Point Guard is an extremely deep position.
Whereas Duncan is not the clear-cut greatest anything of all-time, PF or C, he's not the clear-cut GOAT of either.

curry is the greatest pg of all time and duncan is easily the best pf of all time,

Magic is the best point, and Duncan was really a center.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I find it interesting how players are viewed... as time progresses.

Duncan retired a decade ago. I have a sneaky suspicion this voting would have been different back in 2016. Or, 2011. Or, whenever.

I've seen Bird continue to plummet down all-time ranks as time moves on, so it makes sense I guess that his peer of all peers is starting to see the same thing.


[Note: Obviously, we judge players differently now than we did previously.]

[pipfan]

close, but Duncan by a spot or two

[Frank Dux]

I find it interesting how players are viewed... as time progresses.

Duncan retired a decade ago. I have a sneaky suspicion this voting would have been different back in 2016. Or, 2011. Or, whenever.

I've seen Bird continue to plummet down all-time ranks as time moves on, so it makes sense I guess that his peer of all peers is starting to see the same thing.

[Note: Obviously, we judge players differently now than we did then in many ways.]

Bird is criminally underrated. It pains me to say that as a Laker fan, but he has to have one of the best 10 year stretches in NBA history. The only knock on his resume is the lack of longevity due to his bad back.

From Bird’s 2nd season to 4th season he was runner up in MVP voting 3 straight times. Then the next three seasons he won the MVP award three straight times. Then followed that up with a 3rd place finish and finally a 2nd place finish the following year. Just incredible consistency and dominance.

I’ve been seen him drop out of top 10 lists, to me it’s hard to out him out of the top 5.

[mojomarc]

This is a really good one since both bring such different things to the game. Duncan is more impactful on defense, but Magic was by far the more important player to his team offensively. Lakers' Showtime literally doesn't exist without Magic. Kareem without him was not able to get past Jack Silkma and the Sonics in the West for crissakes. With Magic they immediately win the championship with Magic having an all-time Finals showing with the 45 point "sure I'm a PG but let me play center and even win the series with an epic skyhook" game. From then on out, it was Magic that drove that team, which was the most dominant team in an era where there were a few other contenders for superteam if the Lakers faultered (Boston and Philly for sure).

With Duncan, amazing two way player and in there with Bird as my favorite forwards in league history (at least for those who didn't play for my Blazers). But I think he is more of a product of his system than the player who drove the system. I just don't think you drop Duncan into anything but Pop's system with David Robinson in 2000 and Manu/Parker/Bowen/etc. 2005 and beyond and have the same level of success.

But damn it is close.

[LascelleL]

I have Magic because I feel like Magic's impact on basketball and the NBA on a whole is a bit more than Tim Duncan's. I also think Magic achieving the 5 in under a decade is crazy.

[TheProfessor]

Honesty, Shaq/Magic/Duncan are all in that 4-6 Secondary goat status for me. But have to go with Duncan.

[hagredionis]

Magic easily how is that even a question.

[The High Cyde]

Duncan, no contest for me. No fuss, no flash, he set the bar for being a professional athlete, came in the league without any demands and dominated day one.

[Mirotic12]

I find it interesting how players are viewed... as time progresses.

Duncan retired a decade ago. I have a sneaky suspicion this voting would have been different back in 2016. Or, 2011. Or, whenever.

I've seen Bird continue to plummet down all-time ranks as time moves on, so it makes sense I guess that his peer of all peers is starting to see the same thing.


[Note: Obviously, we judge players differently now than we did previously.]

These kinds of things really shouldn't matter though when anyone can just go back and watch games of these guys.

Both Magic and Bird were clearly better players than Duncan was.

[CobraCommander]

Duncan and I don't think it's as close as most people are making it seem tbh. Infinitely better defender/two-way player who also peaked slightly higher imo, although it's close:

Duncan's best season: 26 Pts / 13 Rbs/ 4 Asts / 3 Blks / 1 Stl / 51% FG% / 58 TS% / 27 PER / 8.0 VORP
Magic's best season: 24 Pts / 6 Rbs / 12 Asts / 1 Blk / 2 Stls / 52% FG% / 60% TS% / 27 PER / 8.0 VORP

Aside from Defense though, Duncan's longevity is the major deal-breaker. He was the backbone of the greatest 20-year dynasty in modern NBA history. Never missed the Playoffs once in his career and never won less than 50 games once (except the lockout-shortened season). Top-5 all-time in Blocks, #1 all-time in Playoff Blocks, 3rd all-time in Career Playoff Wins, 3rd all-time in Career Playoff Rebounds, 6th all-time in Playoff Points, etc.

He also won the same amount of Championships despite playing in a more competitive era (literally the greatest era of big men ever) and despite never playing with anyone near the same caliber player as Kareem. And Magic never had anything close to a Championship carry job like Duncan did in 2003.

Duncan also has a higher Career PER and higher Career VORP, as well as more career All-NBA First Teams to go along with his NBA record 15 All-NBA Defensive Teams.

when you put it like that...assist or defense ....I go with Timmy...but its razor thin...its like what do I drive the red or black lambo....ill take the one you dont want and ill still be happy.

[Orange Balls]

It's Magic for me and not close...Pop elevated Tim's game with smart coaching. I think Tim is overrated.

[HotRocks34]

Heart says Magic, head says Duncan.

Tough pick here IMO in terms of pure talent.

[Warspite]

If we all sat in the stands of a huge multi court gym and watched the 50 greatest players scrimmage each other on random teams we would quickly see that Magics teams win more often because he makes the game easier for teammates and that he is simply the GOAT mismatch creator which he exploits to such a degree that his win % is an outlier. Bird and MJ would win by sheer will and taking over the game while Russell and Magic would inspire teammates to win.

I would wager that Magic in a draft of those 50 players would be picked long before Duncan.

[witnessraps]

Only a 1 vote difference after 175 votes is pretty wild. 2 absolute legends. Ill go with Timmy, elite defensive presence his whole career