NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 6

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Suns up 16 on the Spurs at the half

They have a winning record, they are not looking -so far, and it's early- the junk a lot of people said they were going to be, seem to be pretty scrappy. There's only a couple losses they have that are bad, one being versus the Nuggets, and most of their wins have been by comfortable margins.

I expect they'll be on play-in edge which means swap is likely to useless.

[doclinkin]

Jokic is doing it again. He has broken the game.

Last night, he had 35 points, 15 boards and 7 assists on a .861 TS% with only 3 turnovers in 33 minutes. It wasn't even a remarkable game for him. It was pretty much what he does every night.

So far, 10 games into the season, he is averaging:
26.2 points
13.2 rebounds
11.4 assists
1.9 steals
0.7 blocks
3.1 turnovers
.748 TS%
147 ORtg
36.8 PER
.434 WS/48
19.2 BPM

He leads the league in rebounds, assists, TS%, PER, ORtg, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM and BPM. And that's in a season where SGA and Giannis have gotten off to terrific starts.

He is a cheat code. It's just not fair. His PER is 4 points higher than the all time single season record of 32.85 (owned by him, naturally). His WS/48 is miles ahead of the single-season record of .339. He already has five the of the last 6 highest BPM totals (his highest was 13.72) and now he is obliterating it. And it's difficult to even put into words how preposterous it is to post a TS% of .748 on that kind of volume.

Oh, and his TS% has suffered because in the opening game of the season, he had a real rough game going 2-13 from 3-point range. In the 9 games after that first game, his TS% is 80.1%. How is he even human?

I think he’s the best/most creative passer the game has seen. Over Magic, Pistol Pete, White Chocolate, whomever. He does Harlem Globetrotter plays by reflex and instinct. No look pass behind his head cross court through traffic to the shooting pocket of the corner shooter. One handed 40 foot bounce passes. Regularly uncorking one hand full court outlet passes on the break. Frankly I think he passes sometimes just to save himself the work of running up court. Or getting banged about on defense. Making it easier on himself by making it easy for his teammates. Literally unbelievable some of the passes he makes.

To me there are 2 blessings of being an NBA fan in this era: Curry’s shooting and Jokic’ passing. The same way old folks will talk about watching Wilt I’m gonna be on the rocking chair telling kiddies: you shoulda seen this kid Curry. And you think that’s passing, well, let me tell you bout the Joker.

[Kanyewest]

Jokic 55/12/6 in 33 minutes

18/23 from the field, 5/6 from 3, 14/16 from the line

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There was big debate on this thread about Cade Cunningham. To see how he's improved his game is just impressive. 26/9/6 last year. 26/10/5 this year (rounding up).

I was most impressed with his leadership traits. He was more than just the best player on his team. Guys follow his lead. He is a no-nonsense alpha who demonstrates how to work hard and play proficiently.

The East has a logjam of teams, but if Detroit emerges on top, I could see Cunningham in the top 4-5 for league MVP.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Jokic is doing it again. He has broken the game.

Last night, he had 35 points, 15 boards and 7 assists on a .861 TS% with only 3 turnovers in 33 minutes. It wasn't even a remarkable game for him. It was pretty much what he does every night.

So far, 10 games into the season, he is averaging:
26.2 points
13.2 rebounds
11.4 assists
1.9 steals
0.7 blocks
3.1 turnovers
.748 TS%
147 ORtg
36.8 PER
.434 WS/48
19.2 BPM

He leads the league in rebounds, assists, TS%, PER, ORtg, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM and BPM. And that's in a season where SGA and Giannis have gotten off to terrific starts.

He is a cheat code. It's just not fair. His PER is 4 points higher than the all time single season record of 32.85 (owned by him, naturally). His WS/48 is miles ahead of the single-season record of .339. He already has five the of the last 6 highest BPM totals (his highest was 13.72) and now he is obliterating it. And it's difficult to even put into words how preposterous it is to post a TS% of .748 on that kind of volume.

Oh, and his TS% has suffered because in the opening game of the season, he had a real rough game going 2-13 from 3-point range. In the 9 games after that first game, his TS% is 80.1%. How is he even human?

I just wish we had peak Shaq, peak Tim Duncan, peak Hakeem, and peak David Robinson on given nights to oppose Joker. And peak Kareem.

Yes, nate, Jokic is a cheat code. You've done an outstanding job explaining his argument for the best ever. (However, FWIW, I think the prehistoric Cs Chamberlain, Russell, and Thurman would have beat Joker up or run him to death.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Unreal....

Who was the last player to be as dominant as this? Wilt?

Nobody.

Wilt put up a staggering volume, but his shooting efficiency was undermined by shooting a FT% in the 50-60% range. His TS% tended to be 7 or so percentage points above league average, not 17 points like Jokic is now (or 12 points above for an entire season like Jokic has done in the past). Wilt was more Shaq-like than Jokic. A dominant presence to be sure, but with a fatal weakness (FT%) that impacted his effectiveness when it mattered.

Also the pace and minutes played back then were absurd. They had 25% more possessions per game, and Wilt played 33% more minutes than a starter today. So just on the additional possessions alone, one would expect Wilt to post 60-65% more points, rebounds and assists than a star caliber player today. When Wilt averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds that one season, it would actually look something more like 31 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes at today's pace. And if he shot a TS% roughly 7 points above league average today, it would come in at around .650.

Yup. Nobody.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Unreal....

Who was the last player to be as dominant as this? Wilt?

Nobody.

Wilt put up a staggering volume, but his shooting efficiency was undermined by shooting a FT% in the 50-60% range. His TS% tended to be 7 or so percentage points above league average, not 17 points like Jokic is now (or 12 points above for an entire season like Jokic has done in the past). Wilt was more Shaq-like than Jokic. A dominant presence to be sure, but with a fatal weakness (FT%) that impacted his effectiveness when it mattered.

Also the pace and minutes played back then were absurd. They had 25% more possessions per game, and Wilt played 33% more minutes than a starter today. So just on the additional possessions alone, one would expect Wilt to post 60-65% more points, rebounds and assists than a star caliber player today. When Wilt averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds that one season, it would actually look something more like 31 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes at today's pace. And if he shot a TS% roughly 7 points above league average today, it would come in at around .650.

Yup. Nobody.

[x]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1988848986636111906%7Ctwgr%5E7b70bd8b6000ffe01083b426dcff8c963d01e740%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2477484start%3D760[/x]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1988847847089815829%7Ctwgr%5E7b70bd8b6000ffe01083b426dcff8c963d01e740%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2477484start%3D760[/x]

Nabbed those off the general board.

His advanced metrics are laughable 11 games into the campaign.

39.4 per
.773 TS%
52.7 AST%
3.6 WS
2.8 OWS
.468 WS/48
20.8 BPM
13.0 OBPM
6.8 DBPM
2.2 VORP

And he's only 26th usage.

Not to mention he's leads the league in both rebounding and assists, while being 5 or 6 in scoring. Video game stuff on easy mode.

[Kanyewest]

So how about Deni?

[willbcocks]

Phoenix has gotten super lucky playing teams with injured stars out. Much to our chagrin.

[nate33]

So how about Deni?

He now ranks 17th in the league in scoring. And more importantly, he is doing so with efficiency. His TS% Added ranks 16th in the league. That the additional points Deni creates relative to what he would make if all of his shots came at a league average TS%. It's the best measure of volume combined with efficiency.

[tontoz]

It is funny to me to see what Horford has become in recent years. I used to live in Atlanta and follow the Hawks. He used to drive me nuts taking so many long 2s while refusing to take 3s.

Here are his actual numbers from 2014-15. By that time I had stopped following them but the numbers are jarring.

35% of his shots were long 2s 16 ft+ (that is not a typo) and he shot 49.4% on those attempts.

He shot only 36 3s that entire season.

[Benjammin]

I'm getting really tired of the Suns winning games. Addition by subtraction apparently.

Sent from my SM-S938U using Tapatalk

[Kanyewest]

Suns have beaten the Clippers twice, Pelicans, and Mavericks on this winning streak and are right now going to beat the Pacers. It is a soft schedule - hopefully they lose to quality teams.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Atlanta is finding its way without Trae Young. This guy helps:

Read on Twitter

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[closg00]

Read on Twitter

38th pick, Ryan Rollins was picked 44th. This is why the Deni trade was so upsetting, guards are plentiful up and down the draft, you don’t trade a Deni to target a guard with limited athleticism and skills @ 14. Rant over.

[willbcocks]

Watching the Spurs for the first time this year against the Warriors, it's interesting that Wembanyama essentially never sets screens for the ballhandler. I would think he would be devastating rolling and popping like Sarr is doing. Instead, they're either giving him the ball and having people screen for him, or he's camping out for corner threes. Harper is out, so maybe they'll do more of that when he's back, but they have both Castle and Foxx, and if neither one can play the pick and roll with Wemby, why are they even there?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

On Sunday 11/16, the Rockets beat the Magic 117-113.

Alperen Sengun had 30 points, 12 rebounds, 8 assists, and 2 blocks.

According to nate and Dat (?) teams can't win without a shot blocker.

Also, Sengun and Steven Adams were on the floor together in crunch time. What about spacing? What about defending pick and roll? Which C played PF when you guys say Queen can not play PF with Missi at C?

How did Sengun's team win? Does this mean that someday Derik Queen could be on a winning team?

[nate33]

We shall see, CCJ. They lost in the first round last year.

Also, it's noteworthy that they quickly abandoned the Adams/Sengun twin towers lineup. The two of them started for the first two games of the season, both were losses. Then they went back to starting Sengun at center and bringing Adams off the bench and went 9-1 since then. He and Adams have only played together for about 100 out of a possible 500 minutes since the first two games.

It is true that they a have been successful with Sengun at center, and he is not a rim protector. But it's a little bit of an atypical situation. There is an insane amount of height and defense around Sengun (Thompson, Durant, Smith, Eason when healthy) that means Sengun doesn't really need to do much rim protection. I suppose you could win with with Queen if you put him alongside two of the best defensive wings in the game and a 7-foot tall HOF shooting guard. But that scenario is typically unlikely.

[nate33]

It was a good day for the tank at least. Utah, Dallas and Brooklyn won. Phoenix lost.