jakobe & Dick were bad picks

[raptorforlife88]

Barnes is 12th in VORP and 15th in BPM so far this year. Those aren't like the best advanced stats to use or anything, but roughly they do give you an idea of who's been effective overall. I don't think many of the advanced stats sites have posted updated stats for this year? (Aside I really hate how the NBA doesn't have their version of Fangraphs or Statcast where you can easily find various advanced stats for free).

Barnes has been very good (if somewhat inconsistent) this year. He's been good at both ends, he rates as the teams best player by a decent margin. Just like Kyle, even though he's not putting up gaudy numbers, he's contributing in all the ways that help a team win games.

In terms of cumulative value Scottie is still basically in the top 4 for that draft. I think you take Sengun, Cade, probably Mobley and based on last year Franz (although it is much closer this year) ahead of him. Anyone outside of that and you're really stretching it. Especially given his play so far this season.

[MoneyBall]

Barnes is 12th in VORP and 15th in BPM so far this year. Those aren't like the best advanced stats to use or anything, but roughly they do give you an idea of who's been effective overall. I don't think many of the advanced stats sites have posted updated stats for this year? (Aside I really hate how the NBA doesn't have their version of Fangraphs or Statcast where you can easily find various advanced stats for free).

Barnes has been very good (if somewhat inconsistent) this year. He's been good at both ends, he rates as the teams best player by a decent margin. Just like Kyle, even though he's not putting up gaudy numbers, he's contributing in all the ways that help a team win games.

In terms of cumulative value Scottie is still basically in the top 4 for that draft. I think you take Sengun, Cade, probably Mobley and based on last year Franz (although it is much closer this year) ahead of him. Anyone outside of that and you're really stretching it. Especially given his play so far this season.

Being 15th in the entire league in BPM is impressive. I find that stat unfairly rewards offensive player more than defensive players. So given that Scottie's impact is just as strong on defense than it is on O, I think it may be under measuring his impact. I guess we'll have to wait for an update on those other impact metrics...

[ATLTimekeeper]

Barnes is 12th in VORP and 15th in BPM so far this year. Those aren't like the best advanced stats to use or anything, but roughly they do give you an idea of who's been effective overall. I don't think many of the advanced stats sites have posted updated stats for this year? (Aside I really hate how the NBA doesn't have their version of Fangraphs or Statcast where you can easily find various advanced stats for free).

Barnes has been very good (if somewhat inconsistent) this year. He's been good at both ends, he rates as the teams best player by a decent margin. Just like Kyle, even though he's not putting up gaudy numbers, he's contributing in all the ways that help a team win games.

In terms of cumulative value Scottie is still basically in the top 4 for that draft. I think you take Sengun, Cade, probably Mobley and based on last year Franz (although it is much closer this year) ahead of him. Anyone outside of that and you're really stretching it. Especially given his play so far this season.

fwiw, in a few of those years DeMar really wasn't that far behind Kyle in those stats. Kyle's peak was top 10 in both, but would hang around the 10-20 ranking and DeMar would be in the 30s.

For Barnes draft class, you can see all those names kind of in the same range. Sengun, cumulatively, has been better and he's younger so I'd give him the slight edge in a re-draft. Lots can change, though. These guys are all under 25. It's a little silly at this point to act like the difference between any of them is strong enough, or that Scottie's game impacts winning better.

[raptorforlife88]

In terms of Gradey that draft looks weaker than people thought after their rookie seasons. Lots of guys dropped off instead of improving.

Wembenyama and Thompson's have been great yeah. But Brandon Miller has not been able to stay healthy and establish what he is capable of doing yet. He's missed 63 games and counting the last two years. Scoot is a complete question mark.

Black, Coulibaly, Jarace, Hendricks is just an incredibly bad set of 6-9 picks. Cason Wallace is a good role player, Jett Howard is likely to be out of the league after his rookie contract ends. Lively is fine, but feels like he'd been a bit overrated.

And then you have Gradey, and behind him two more picks declining from their initial seasons, or just never good in the first place (Hawkins, Bufkin). Really there were three decent players taken after Gradey that round, Keyonte, Jaquez, and Podz (maybe you can add Sensabaugh?)

Given the results everywhere else from that draft, I honestly think he was fine as a pick. He might not pan out but he was worth the shot.

[ATLTimekeeper]

In terms of Gradey that draft looks weaker than people thought after their rookie seasons. Lots of guys dropped off instead of improving.

Wembenyama and Thompson's have been great yeah. But Brandon Miller has not been able to stay healthy and establish what he is capable of doing yet. He's missed 63 games and counting the last two years. Scoot is a complete question mark.

Black, Coulibaly, Jarace, Hendricks is just an incredibly bad set of 6-9 picks. Cason Wallace is a good role player, Jett Howard is likely to be out of the league after his rookie contract ends. Lively is fine, but feels like he'd been a bit overrated.

And then you have Gradey, and behind him two more picks declining from their initial seasons, or just never good in the first place (Hawkins, Bufkin). Really there were three decent players taken after Gradey that round, Keyonte, Jaquez, and Podz (maybe you can add Sensabaugh?)

Given the results everywhere else from that draft, I honestly think he was fine as a pick. He might not pan out but he was worth the shot.

Camera is definitely a good player and will be around for a long time. He actually leads the entire draft class in minutes.

Marcus Sasser also probably gets a decent career out of this class.

[gerrit4]

Gradey is fine

Walter was the 19th pick in a historically weak draft.

My view is that any player drafted outside of the lottery that becomes a legit NBA role player (or better), is a good pick, even if they were drafted before Jokic. In other words, if they can become a guy like Simon Fontechhio, Duncan Robinson, Isiah Stewart, Kelly Olynyk, Nick Richards, etc, then it's an above-average pick. This idea that first round picks are either borderline all-stars or bust, is a bit much.

I'm not quite sold on Walter, but I think it's too early to call him a bust. And it's not like he needs to become the second coming of MJ to become a good pick.

[PushDaRock]

Shooting is very important, but it isn't the only thing that has lacked significant technical improvement. Footwork, ballhanding, passing accuracy (to your point about playmaking).

The point Darko was making was that if you overestimate your abilities at the NBA level, you probably won't embrace/know your role in the league. Now, obviously Barnes is a good player and in no danger of exiting the league any time soon - but it's worth noting Darko wasn't just speaking in generalities, but about Barnes specifically.

Never saw that Darko quote before, it's good that they are aware of this.

i remember Darko mention something like that in his first year, they eventually have to figure out what are the 3 areas to focus on for Barnes.

I meant specifically as it relates to Scottie and that they want to get him extremely good at a few things.

[anotherhomer]

Never saw that Darko quote before, it's good that they are aware of this.

i remember Darko mention something like that in his first year, they eventually have to figure out what are the 3 areas to focus on for Barnes.

I meant specifically as it relates to Scottie and that they want to get him extremely good at a few things.

i think they figured that out for Scottie....it's basically, defense, rebounding, playmaking, and opportunistic bully-ball

[Kevin Willis]

In terms of Gradey that draft looks weaker than people thought after their rookie seasons. Lots of guys dropped off instead of improving.

Wembenyama and Thompson's have been great yeah. But Brandon Miller has not been able to stay healthy and establish what he is capable of doing yet. He's missed 63 games and counting the last two years. Scoot is a complete question mark.

Black, Coulibaly, Jarace, Hendricks is just an incredibly bad set of 6-9 picks. Cason Wallace is a good role player, Jett Howard is likely to be out of the league after his rookie contract ends. Lively is fine, but feels like he'd been a bit overrated.

And then you have Gradey, and behind him two more picks declining from their initial seasons, or just never good in the first place (Hawkins, Bufkin). Really there were three decent players taken after Gradey that round, Keyonte, Jaquez, and Podz (maybe you can add Sensabaugh?)

Given the results everywhere else from that draft, I honestly think he was fine as a pick. He might not pan out but he was worth the shot.

Good assessment, it's surprising how disappointing that draft became. Even Coulibaly was a disappointment.

[LoveMyRaps]

Gradey is fine

Walter was the 19th pick in a historically weak draft.

My view is that any player drafted outside of the lottery that becomes a legit NBA role player (or better), is a good pick, even if they were drafted before Jokic. In other words, if they can become a guy like Simon Fontechhio, Duncan Robinson, Isiah Stewart, Kelly Olynyk, Nick Richards, etc, then it's an above-average pick. This idea that first round picks are either borderline all-stars or bust, is a bit much.

I'm not quite sold on Walter, but I think it's too early to call him a bust. And it's not like he needs to become the second coming of MJ to become a good pick.

Yeah, I've been super critical of Walter but calling him a 'bust' makes no sense.

[KingSebastian]

I think both of these guys are being showcased.
Battle is better than Gradey
Ochai is better than Walter

If we're really trying to win, this minutes distribution makes no sense.

Once Ochai is back from injury we'll see what's really going on here.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro Fold using RealGM mobile app

[JCP11]

In terms of Gradey that draft looks weaker than people thought after their rookie seasons. Lots of guys dropped off instead of improving.

Wembenyama and Thompson's have been great yeah. But Brandon Miller has not been able to stay healthy and establish what he is capable of doing yet. He's missed 63 games and counting the last two years. Scoot is a complete question mark.

Black, Coulibaly, Jarace, Hendricks is just an incredibly bad set of 6-9 picks. Cason Wallace is a good role player, Jett Howard is likely to be out of the league after his rookie contract ends. Lively is fine, but feels like he'd been a bit overrated.

I haven't been following them closely but I thought Coulibaly and Black were decent. I actually wanted Jarace back in the Pascal trade, don't know how he's been doing. Are they really this bad? I only know that Hendricks is a total bust so far.

[JCP11]

Gradey is fine

Walter was the 19th pick in a historically weak draft.

My view is that any player drafted outside of the lottery that becomes a legit NBA role player (or better), is a good pick, even if they were drafted before Jokic. In other words, if they can become a guy like Simon Fontechhio, Duncan Robinson, Isiah Stewart, Kelly Olynyk, Nick Richards, etc, then it's an above-average pick. This idea that first round picks are either borderline all-stars or bust, is a bit much.

I'm not quite sold on Walter, but I think it's too early to call him a bust. And it's not like he needs to become the second coming of MJ to become a good pick.

Walter is very underwhelming so far. He's not the greatest athlete, he's not the most skilled, he's a streaky shooter, doesn't seem to have a high IQ, not particularly a good passer. The only thing I like about him is that he plays hard on both ends and he's not afraid to take shots. He looks like he will become a end of the bench type of player.

[TeamDisgruntled]

I think Gradey needs to change his shooting form, it’s never gonna happen but I think he could benefit greatly. It worked for kawhi, why not Gradey. That slingshot high elbow 3 has been so inconsistent for him.

I am of the opinion if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, but that thing is broke.

[raptorforlife88]

In terms of Gradey that draft looks weaker than people thought after their rookie seasons. Lots of guys dropped off instead of improving.

Wembenyama and Thompson's have been great yeah. But Brandon Miller has not been able to stay healthy and establish what he is capable of doing yet. He's missed 63 games and counting the last two years. Scoot is a complete question mark.

Black, Coulibaly, Jarace, Hendricks is just an incredibly bad set of 6-9 picks. Cason Wallace is a good role player, Jett Howard is likely to be out of the league after his rookie contract ends. Lively is fine, but feels like he'd been a bit overrated.

I haven't been following them closely but I thought Coulibaly and Black were decent. I actually wanted Jarace back in the Pascal trade, don't know how he's been doing. Are they really this bad? I only know that Hendricks is a total bust so far.

Jarace did not have a terrible year last year, but it was in pretty limited minutes, and honestly when I watched them, I was never very impressed personally. And he's having a really really bad year so far now that he's gotten more of an opportunity. Like it would be hard to be worse.

Coulibaly is a guy scoring 10 PPG exclusively because he's on such a bad team that it's possible for him to do so. I don't think he's shown anything to indicate he's a long term player in this league. He's incredibly inefficient on pretty low volume.

Black was pretty inefficient last year but looking at his numbers again, I was too harsh. He's probably fine as a 9-10th man, or what we're also trying to get out of Gradey.

Collectively though if that's picks 6-9, that is an unfortunate four in a row where you're hoping for a single decent role player out of the set from what we've seen so far.

[johanliebert]

How often do teams hit on lotto picks?13th and 19th respectively at that.

[JCP11]

In terms of Gradey that draft looks weaker than people thought after their rookie seasons. Lots of guys dropped off instead of improving.

Wembenyama and Thompson's have been great yeah. But Brandon Miller has not been able to stay healthy and establish what he is capable of doing yet. He's missed 63 games and counting the last two years. Scoot is a complete question mark.

Black, Coulibaly, Jarace, Hendricks is just an incredibly bad set of 6-9 picks. Cason Wallace is a good role player, Jett Howard is likely to be out of the league after his rookie contract ends. Lively is fine, but feels like he'd been a bit overrated.

I haven't been following them closely but I thought Coulibaly and Black were decent. I actually wanted Jarace back in the Pascal trade, don't know how he's been doing. Are they really this bad? I only know that Hendricks is a total bust so far.

Jarace did not have a terrible year last year, but it was in pretty limited minutes, and honestly when I watched them, I was never very impressed personally. And he's having a really really bad year so far now that he's gotten more of an opportunity. Like it would be hard to be worse.

Coulibaly is a guy scoring 10 PPG exclusively because he's on such a bad team that it's possible for him to do so. I don't think he's shown anything to indicate he's a long term player in this league. He's incredibly inefficient on pretty low volume.

Black was pretty inefficient last year but looking at his numbers again, I was too harsh. He's probably fine as a 9-10th man, or what we're also trying to get out of Gradey.

Collectively though if that's picks 6-9, that is an unfortunate four in a row where you're hoping for a single decent role player out of the set from what we've seen so far.

I remember a lot of Raptors fans wanted Coulibaly, he had a lot of tools but he looked ways away from being a good player on a good team. I still think he's going to be good in a few years but playing on the Wizards might compromise that lol. I remember he was super young when he got drafted too. I saw Black played yesterday in the Knicks game and he looked very good and shot 3/5 on 3s. He's been inconsistent and i remember he was very raw but what i saw yesterday showed that he's coming along nicely. Concerning these guys vs Gradey what we have to accept is that Gradey might never be a starter in a contending team, heck he's not even a starter on this team. However his defense got better and he's way more efficient on offense which are very good things to see.

[TimeForChange]

[LoveMyRaps]

Wish we could see this type of chart for sophomore BPM

[PushDaRock]

He's better than Bronny at least