Jokic vs Olajuwon one on one, who will win?

[Common Sensei]

Easily Hakeem The Dream Olajuwon. The Greatest Defender who has a range of post moves that would be too much for Jokic. Hakeem is even much quicker than Jokic too.

[Whopper_Sr]

Jokic is a decent post defender. He struggles in space. In a one-on-one game in the post, Hakeem doesn't have much of a chance. Jokic is shooting a preposterous 80% or something in the 3-10 feet area so anytime he gets there it's automatic. Hakeem has a better chance if the ball is checked at the top of the key but the difference in scoring efficiency is just too much.

Shaq vs Jokic is a better question IMO.

Shaq would pose more problems than Hakeem as Jokic’s strength and height advantage goes away.

[Optms]

The Dream has an infinitely much better shot at stopping Joker than vice versa.

After all, does anyone else see a 6'4 guard bullying Dream? Joke thread that it has to even be asked

[zero rings]

Europeans tend to have longer trunks and Africans tend to have longer limbs.

Wow. It's been a long time since I read or heard a nonsensical eugenics based argument such as yours.

Watch on YouTube

Campanis would go on to say "Roger mentioned the fact that about a third of the players are black. That might be a pretty good number, and deservedly so, because they are outstanding athletes. They are gifted with great musculature and various other things, they're fleet of foot, and this is why there are a lot of black major league ballplayers."

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7751398/how-al-campanis-controversial-racial-remarks-cost-career-highlighted-mlb-hiring-practices

I will say this as politely as I can...When you speak of human beings using racial generalities such as this, you have crossed the border into crazy town. Other people might use another word to describe it.

Blacks have represented 70%+ of the NBA despite being about 12% of the population. You don’t think that might have anything to do with differences in bone structure, musculature, etc?

You got awfully mad at this guy without saying why he’s wrong.

[MrGoat]

Olajuwon would clean up, speed matters a lot more in 1 on 1 than 5 v 5

[Ol Roy]

Fine. But, you should understand that eugenics based arguments attempt to draw sweeping conclusions about human beings' physical or mental abilities based on their genetic makeup. It is the "study" of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable. It has been discredited as unscientific and racially biased - most notably after the adoption of its doctrines by the Nazis in order to justify their treatment of Jews, disabled people, and other minority groups. Eugenics based arguments have reared their ugly head from time to time over the decades, notably in the mid 1990s with the publication of the book "The Bell Curve." It is crap, certainly not worthy of being referred to as "science." Perhaps yet another area where AI is going to lead the entire world down dark passages.

You are recklessly inserting the word "eugenics" to describe group heritability.

Group heritability denial, which is just a form of political correctness, is what drives people into the extremes of scientific racism and eugenics.

When you (or Wikipedia editors) close off undeniable, observable truth from respectable discussion, curious people will be left to learn about the subject from those with a nefarious motive.

[MavsDirk41]

I love watching the Joker but he couldn’t defend prime Hakeem. But prime Hakeem would certainly give Jokic trouble. This is Hakeem.

[Handlez]

Hakeem.

Much better defender.

[Doctor MJ]

Just glad to see the poll going in the right direction, started off a little shady last night.

The poll results as of the time I'm making this post (62% to 38% in favor of Olajuwon), still don't really make sense to me.

For me this one isn't even really debatable. The results should be overwhelmingly in favor of Olajuwon.

I really love Jokic's skills and his approach to basketball, but he's massively overrated in these forums if 38% of posters think he's winning a one to one against peak Olajuwon.

Recency bias along with younger folks who simply weren't alive to watch Olajuwon in real time. In reality, no matter how much time goes by, that 1984 NBA draft - with MJ, Olajuwon, Stockton, Barkley - remains unequaled.

So I just want to emphasize:

I don't think Hakeem is overrated.
I do consider Hakeem to have had the 2nd best defensive career in NBA history.
I am mesmerized by Hakeem Dream Shaking his way around hapless defenders.

So none of what I say is intended to knock Hakeem, or to champion Jokic.

Honestly, there's a key point here I haven't seen anyone try to address that I'll put in some historical context:

Back when they actually did 1v1 competitions for NBA players in the '70s, the guy who was the best was Bob Lanier. A giant with size 22 shoes known for playing quite slowly. This gives us a) a good starting point for understanding what kind of player would win 1v1 today, and b) a good explanation for why they stopped holding these competitions, because people who think they want to see 1v1 don't typically realize that means watching the Laniers of the world rather than the Kobes.

This then to say: For anyone who thinks "the quicker guy should probably win", this is the opposite of what history has actually told us. History teaches us that whoever can bully the other will probably win even if he's a worse shooter.

But in this comparison, Jokic is both the bully AND the better shooter.

Not saying I know with a certainty who would win in any matchup, only that if you're picking the less massive guy, it should at least grapple with how - rather than if - the more massive guy gains advantage whenever the two players are close to each other.

[DaPessimist]

Gimme Hakeem. I just think he would ultimately get more stops than Joker.


Don't get it twisted though. Jokic would likely back him down and score at will most of the time.

[HMFFL]

All time greats don't grow on trees.

I will go vote now.

[og15]

In 1v1, defense is different from 5v5 individual defense, as when you get to a certain level, with a guy having the whole half court to score, if he's elite, its going to be tough to defend them. Then it's also about size and physical attributes too. You might be a great defender, but if there's some physical mismatch in 1v1, there's no crowding of the court or help defense, the guy will still get his.

In 5v5 this is the reality too, these guys are rarely shutting others down if it's just 1v1 on an island and his team doesn't help at all.

Now, one of the realities of 1v1 is that you can't hide, everyone has to play both ends, but 1v1 defense doesn't mean that an elite defender is going to just shut elite offensive guys down.

Don't beat around the bush. If you think Jokic would have been able to consistently break down Olajuwon's defense one on one, just say it. Go ahead. I could use a good laugh this morning.

Yes, yes he would depending on what you mean by consistently, because consistently doesn't mean every time. You suggested he would get shut down and he frustrated, I disagree, he would not, this is 1's.

Many internet posters interpretation of 1v1 is not really based on how 1v1 is played, possibly because they don't have a ton of experience actually playing 1v1.

Elite players score on each other if you're leaving guys on an island, the difference in defense is that a guy gets 1-2 more stops, which on 1v1, that's winning 15-12 for example. Anyone who thinks guys like that are getting shut down really don't get 1v1.

[Daddy 801]

1 on 1 is a different game. It's much more about around the basket, defense, and who rebounds better. Hakeem wins this IMO. And I have Joker over Hakeem if I am drafting them for my team.

Also....why am I on a thread about Hakeem and Joker and have to read about LeBron and Kobe? There is probably 600+ threads about those two. For the love of all that's holy can we please just not include them in every thread.

[morosis]

full court, timed game, highest score wins: hakeem.
half court, timed game, highest score wins: jokic.
HORSE: jokic.
playground make it-take it to seven points: whoever gets the ball first
streetball no traveling calls no fouls to seven points: hakeem.

end of the day for me it depends on what kind of 1 on 1 game it is. if its something where hakeem can leverage his endurance and athleticism, he has the edge. if its something where jokic can play slow and methodical and leverage his size and shotmaking, he has the edge.

it is interesting to me though, that in this hypothetical scenario where we remove hakeem's biggest flaw, and one of jokic's biggest strengths (passing), there is still an argument for either. goes to show how great jokic really is.

[kuly1990]

Hakeem,he plays both sides of court

[og15]

1 on 1 is a different game. It's much more about around the basket, defense, and who rebounds better. Hakeem wins this IMO. And I have Joker over Hakeem if I am drafting them for my team.

Also....why am I on a thread about Hakeem and Joker and have to read about LeBron and Kobe? There is probably 600+ threads about those two. For the love of all that's holy can we please just not include them in every thread.

Honestly, guys end up shooting a lot in 1's. If you ask NBA players, almost all will say that you have to be able to hit some jumpers (or at least like hooks from more than like 3 feet) in 1's unless you're just massive and bullt to the basket every play. That level of massiveness is only like Wilt and Shaq though.

[Harry Palmer]

Two guys more noted for their strength/power at either end of his career (Moses Malone and Shaq*) described Olajuwon as the strongest guy they ever faced. Robert Parrish said bumping Hakeem was like bumping into steel. Honestly, this would not be close. Joker is a million miles ahead as a passer, so this is a better argument in 5 on 5, but 1 on 1 it would be a walk.

*he may have later revised that to Yao, though he was only specific re: unable to move him.

[Daddy 801]

1 on 1 is a different game. It's much more about around the basket, defense, and who rebounds better. Hakeem wins this IMO. And I have Joker over Hakeem if I am drafting them for my team.

Also....why am I on a thread about Hakeem and Joker and have to read about LeBron and Kobe? There is probably 600+ threads about those two. For the love of all that's holy can we please just not include them in every thread.

Honestly, guys end up shooting a lot in 1's. If you ask NBA players, almost all will say that you have to be able to hit some jumpers (or at least like hooks from more than like 3 feet) in 1's unless you're just massive and bullt to the basket every play. That level of massiveness is only like Wilt and Shaq though.

I agree 100%. Which is why I have Hakeem. I mean maybe Hakeem isn't quite as good on defense as we all think and Joker wins. I have it a close game regardless. Think if they played to 15 it would be like 15-13.

What I do think we all know is Joker is not an elite 1 on 1 defender. So Hakeem only needs 1 or maybe 2 offense stops for the game to go his way. And Hakeem is also a great rebounder so I think that helps as well. Hakeem was a good rebounder in a league with a lot more dominant bigmen and bigmen style play than today. So I don't see why that doesn't translate as well.

If it was 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 I take Joker though. His passing and outside shooting us too elite not to take him.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic’s strength isn’t against one player he faces. His strength is against the other team’s coaches. This makes him the most deadly so going one on one isn’t Jokic’s main strength. Hakeem vs Jokic one on one will be close but Hakeem is the better defender. Jokic better offense player. It would be close

[JimmyFromNz]

Unsure why there is a somewhat hyper focus on size in the discussion?

Hakeems taller, with a larger wingspan and proved consistently through the greatest era of NBA big man that size/strength advantages meant very little when guarding the likes of Ewing, Shaq and Robinson. Why is it being implied Jokic would be bullying him here?

On the offensive end Hakeems absolutely fine, with the ability to raise over, fade away, play through, or beat Jokic off the dribble. Unless we think a weight advantage is going to magically allow Jokic to negate the greatest array of post moves and counter moves in nba history (its not like I'm being superlative here).

We can talk around this by referencing 1970s 1 on 1 games, or suggest this forum needs to play more - but these are some fairly basic and historically documented advantages Hakeem has which shouldn't be over thought.