Is Hakeem Olajuwon the most Complete all-around player All Time?

[Common Sensei]

Only player in NBA history to be in top 20 All Time in 4 out of 5 major categories, when he retired, he was the only player in the top 10 All Time.

Hakeem Olajuwon also led the Houston Rockets entire team in all 5 major categories in the 1993-94 Playoffs without any Hall of Fame or All-Star or even any All-NBA Team Teammates.
1 of 4 players to have a quadruple-double.
Most 5x5 games All=Time with 6.

Career All Time
1.Points 16th
2.Rebounds 15th
3.Blocks 1st
4. Steals 11th

[tsherkin]

No. He's definitely one of the best two-way players, though.

[cornchip]

No, I think the answer to this question is Lebron James for the forseeable future (longer if Wemby never fully gets there).

[Common Sensei]

No, I think the answer to this question is Lebron James for the forseeable future (longer if Wemby never fully gets there).

Lebron James is only in 3 of the 5 major categories All Time and he's played 324 more games than Hakeem Olajuwon.

[California Gold]

Yes, him and Jordan are the best two way players of all time.

[D.Brasco]

No, I think the answer to this question is Lebron James for the forseeable future (longer if Wemby never fully gets there).

Lebron James is only in 3 of the 5 major categories All Time and he's played 324 more games than Hakeem Olajuwon.

Those 3 mean the most.

[tmorgan]

No, I think the answer to this question is Lebron James for the forseeable future (longer if Wemby never fully gets there).

Lebron James is only in 3 of the 5 major categories All Time and he's played 324 more games than Hakeem Olajuwon.

Don’t think that matters, though. When you think of all-around players, you think of guys that can create for themselves, score, defend, pass, and rebound, the last one being of lesser importance because rebounding is so positionally biased.

Hakeem is an ATG defender and post creator. Very good but likely short of ATG scorer, in terms of both volume and efficiency. Rebounding is similar, perhaps better than his scoring, on the edge of ATG. Mediocre and reluctant passer.

I don’t see how you can call him the “most complete” when there are guys that were great at all of that stuff and could pass, too. LeBron is one of those. Jordan was another.

[GrindCityHustle]

He got it done with a less than a stellar roster.

Honestly the Houston supporting cast were always not that talented except when they got a slightly out of prime Drexler.

[Old_Blue]

Yes, him and Jordan are the best two way players of all time.

Exactly. There are a lot of reasons to pity this younger generation. Mostly because they're all likely to become Matrix style human sources of energy for AI. But, beyond that, they also completely missed out on seeing either Jordan or Olajuwon play during what was a Golden Age of basketball.

[California Gold]

No, I think the answer to this question is Lebron James for the forseeable future (longer if Wemby never fully gets there).

Lebron James is only in 3 of the 5 major categories All Time and he's played 324 more games than Hakeem Olajuwon.

Don’t think that matters, though. When you think of all-around players, you think of guys that can create for themselves, score, defend, pass, and rebound, the last one being of lesser importance because rebounding is so positionally biased.

Hakeem is an ATG defender and post creator. Very good but likely short of ATG scorer, in terms of both volume and efficiency. Rebounding is similar, perhaps better than his scoring, on the edge of ATG. Mediocre and reluctant passer.

I don’t see how you can call him the “most complete” when there are guys that were great at all of that stuff and could pass, too. LeBron is one of those. Jordan was another.

Hakeem was far more balanced on both ends than LeBron. LeBron's defense doesn't come close to the impact Hakeem had. Yes Hakeem was inferior offensive player to LeBron but the margin of that is much slimmer than the margin comparatively defensively. The center position alone just gives him a leap up.

[Sane]

Well half a player's report card is defense and the other is offense. That's just math, has always been the case. Rebounds and assists are drops in the bucket of this big picture. The two giant items in basketball are offense and defense. There is nothing else.

He's the best defender of all time and no one else in the GOAT convo can sniff first place. That's half his grade. A+.

On offense especially in the playoffs, he rises to almost-Shaq level offensively. That's the other half of his grade. A-.

I can't see how anyone but Jordan can make a case. Jordan's an A- on defense and an A+ on offense. Lebron is not in the same stratosphere defensively so half his report card will be a B+ even if the other half is A+.

Personally yes, I think Hakeem is the best and I don't think there's another player in history other than Jordan who could win back to back titles with Hakeem's routinely sub par supporting cast (thanks to cheap owners).

[FarBeyondDriven]

Well half a player's report card is defense and the other is offense. That's just math, has always been the case. Rebounds and assists are drops in the bucket of this big picture. The two giant items in basketball are offense and defense. There is nothing else.

He's the best defender of all time and no one else in the GOAT convo can sniff first place. That's half his grade. A+.

On offense especially in the playoffs, he rises to almost-Shaq level offensively. That's the other half of his grade. A-.

I can't see how anyone but Jordan can make a case. Jordan's an A- on defense and an A+ on offense. Lebron is not in the same stratosphere defensively so half his report card will be a B+ even if the other half is A+.

Personally yes, I think Hakeem is the best and I don't think there's another player in history other than Jordan who could win back to back titles with Hakeem's routinely sub par supporting cast (thanks to cheap owners).

Wilt was probably averaging double the amount of blocks as Hakeem but they didn't keep track of those stats back then. Nobody will ever be a better defender than Wilt. A Sixer statistician once claimed Wilt had 24 blocks and 11 steals in a single game. That was his famous quadruple double game. The NBA has official records for 112 of Wilt's 1045 games played and in those (he was older btw) he averaged 8.8 blocks per game. Most likely he would have had several steals per game too. Of course he'd have many more when he was younger and in better shape. No matter how you slice it, Wilt trounces any other defender the game has ever and will likely ever see. Wilt of course was the most dominant offensive player in history as well so he's undoubtedly the best two-way player ever. He was the first heliocentric center which Jokic has now perfected and averaged 8 rebounds for a couple of seasons.

[Bloodbather]

Well half a player's report card is defense and the other is offense. That's just math, has always been the case. Rebounds and assists are drops in the bucket of this big picture. The two giant items in basketball are offense and defense. There is nothing else.

He's the best defender of all time and no one else in the GOAT convo can sniff first place. That's half his grade. A+.

On offense especially in the playoffs, he rises to almost-Shaq level offensively. That's the other half of his grade. A-.

I can't see how anyone but Jordan can make a case. Jordan's an A- on defense and an A+ on offense. Lebron is not in the same stratosphere defensively so half his report card will be a B+ even if the other half is A+.

Personally yes, I think Hakeem is the best and I don't think there's another player in history other than Jordan who could win back to back titles with Hakeem's routinely sub par supporting cast (thanks to cheap owners).

LeBron was a DPOY candidate level defender at his peak. What are you even talking about here? His defensive performance in the 2016 Finals is up there with just about anyone.

Also, Hakeem has a case for being the GOAT defender but it's not a clear cut case at all. I wouldn't put him above Bill Russell, for example. Wilt and Thurmond also have a case, though Thurmond wasn't at that level as an overall player.

[Sane]

Well half a player's report card is defense and the other is offense. That's just math, has always been the case. Rebounds and assists are drops in the bucket of this big picture. The two giant items in basketball are offense and defense. There is nothing else.

He's the best defender of all time and no one else in the GOAT convo can sniff first place. That's half his grade. A+.

On offense especially in the playoffs, he rises to almost-Shaq level offensively. That's the other half of his grade. A-.

I can't see how anyone but Jordan can make a case. Jordan's an A- on defense and an A+ on offense. Lebron is not in the same stratosphere defensively so half his report card will be a B+ even if the other half is A+.

Personally yes, I think Hakeem is the best and I don't think there's another player in history other than Jordan who could win back to back titles with Hakeem's routinely sub par supporting cast (thanks to cheap owners).

LeBron was a DPOY candidate level defender at his peak. What are you even talking about here? His defensive performance in the 2016 Finals is up there with just about anyone.

Also, Hakeem has a case for being the GOAT defender but it's not a clear cut case at all. I wouldn't put him above Bill Russell, for example. Wilt and Thurmond also have a case, though Thurmond wasn't at that level as an overall player.

I think you're confusing things here. There are many DPOY candidates who are not an A+ in NBA history. Lebron was an excellent defender in those seasons and during his prime but we're talking about historically elite here. Kawhi, Jordan, Rodman, Bill Russell, Ben Wallace, etc. We're talking about multiple DPOY winners who probably should have won more.

Lebron is nowhere in the stratosphere of even a top 3 defender of all time, so it's irrelevant that you don't consider Hakeem the best defender ever. It's still another tier.

You would just much rather the other team have Lebron on defense than Hakeem. As a C, Hakeem has about as many STEALS as Lebron James despite playing in a much lower possession era and fewer seasons, just think about it. Hakeem has two heroic titles (i.e. teammates suck) - none of Kobe, Dirk or Curry achieved that two times. Only stacked teams win multiple titles - Hakeem Olajuwon is the only exception to that rule. His best co-star ever was a soon-retiring Clyde Drexler and only for one of the two titles.

Nothing against Lebron. If you want to argue he's a better offensive player than MJ I can at least understand that. He's clearly a better offensive player than Hakeem (though not playoff Hakeem).

Can you just love and appreciate Lebron anyway? I certainly can.

[Sane]

Well half a player's report card is defense and the other is offense. That's just math, has always been the case. Rebounds and assists are drops in the bucket of this big picture. The two giant items in basketball are offense and defense. There is nothing else.

He's the best defender of all time and no one else in the GOAT convo can sniff first place. That's half his grade. A+.

On offense especially in the playoffs, he rises to almost-Shaq level offensively. That's the other half of his grade. A-.

I can't see how anyone but Jordan can make a case. Jordan's an A- on defense and an A+ on offense. Lebron is not in the same stratosphere defensively so half his report card will be a B+ even if the other half is A+.

Personally yes, I think Hakeem is the best and I don't think there's another player in history other than Jordan who could win back to back titles with Hakeem's routinely sub par supporting cast (thanks to cheap owners).

Wilt was probably averaging double the amount of blocks as Hakeem but they didn't keep track of those stats back then. Nobody will ever be a better defender than Wilt. A Sixer statistician once claimed Wilt had 24 blocks and 11 steals in a single game. That was his famous quadruple double game. The NBA has official records for 112 of Wilt's 1045 games played and in those (he was older btw) he averaged 8.8 blocks per game. Most likely he would have had several steals per game too. Of course he'd have many more when he was younger and in better shape. No matter how you slice it, Wilt trounces any other defender the game has ever and will likely ever see. Wilt of course was the most dominant offensive player in history as well so he's undoubtedly the best two-way player ever. He was the first heliocentric center which Jokic has now perfected and averaged 8 rebounds for a couple of seasons.

It's possible but as you said they didn't keep track so these are all stories not achievements. Personally I do not believe it. My reasoning is that if you're that good a defender and scorer, it makes no sense that his impact on winning was so mediocre compared to the players we're discussing. There are no players in NBA history who are DPOY candidates capable of putting up 30 efficient points who aren't in the historically elite when it comes to wins. Something has to be off.

You're describing a Shaq-like player but a Shaq would win a lot more than he did.

[doogie_hauser]

Larry Bird disrespect here is annoying

[Braggins]

No, its Lebron easily.

PTS ~ 1st
REB ~ 26th
AST ~ 4th
STL ~ 6th
BLK ~ 74th

[Sofia]

Hakeem averaged 2.5 assists per game, and 1.3 made 3 pointers per season.

Great player obviously, but those numbers need to be higher for all around GOAT

[picko]

Being an all-round player surely speaks to positional versatility as well. Hakeem was a great offensive and defensive player but he could viably play two positions on offense and defend two positions on defence.

By comparison, if you are arguing that LeBron is the best all-round player you can not only look to his statistical output (which Hakeem also ranks highly) but also to his positional flexibility. One through four were all viable during his prime on both ends and even the five proved viable on offense when he was 37.

[Bloodbather]

Well half a player's report card is defense and the other is offense. That's just math, has always been the case. Rebounds and assists are drops in the bucket of this big picture. The two giant items in basketball are offense and defense. There is nothing else.

He's the best defender of all time and no one else in the GOAT convo can sniff first place. That's half his grade. A+.

On offense especially in the playoffs, he rises to almost-Shaq level offensively. That's the other half of his grade. A-.

I can't see how anyone but Jordan can make a case. Jordan's an A- on defense and an A+ on offense. Lebron is not in the same stratosphere defensively so half his report card will be a B+ even if the other half is A+.

Personally yes, I think Hakeem is the best and I don't think there's another player in history other than Jordan who could win back to back titles with Hakeem's routinely sub par supporting cast (thanks to cheap owners).

LeBron was a DPOY candidate level defender at his peak. What are you even talking about here? His defensive performance in the 2016 Finals is up there with just about anyone.

Also, Hakeem has a case for being the GOAT defender but it's not a clear cut case at all. I wouldn't put him above Bill Russell, for example. Wilt and Thurmond also have a case, though Thurmond wasn't at that level as an overall player.

I think you're confusing things here. There are many DPOY candidates who are not an A+ in NBA history. Lebron was an excellent defender in those seasons and during his prime but we're talking about historically elite here. Kawhi, Jordan, Rodman, Bill Russell, Ben Wallace, etc. We're talking about multiple DPOY winners who probably should have won more.

Lebron is nowhere in the stratosphere of even a top 3 defender of all time, so it's irrelevant that you don't consider Hakeem the best defender ever. It's still another tier.

You would just much rather the other team have Lebron on defense than Hakeem. As a C, Hakeem has about as many STEALS as Lebron James despite playing in a much lower possession era and fewer seasons, just think about it. Hakeem has two heroic titles (i.e. teammates suck) - none of Kobe, Dirk or Curry achieved that two times. Only stacked teams win multiple titles - Hakeem Olajuwon is the only exception to that rule. His best co-star ever was a soon-retiring Clyde Drexler and only for one of the two titles.

Nothing against Lebron. If you want to argue he's a better offensive player than MJ I can at least understand that. He's clearly a better offensive player than Hakeem (though not playoff Hakeem).

Can you just love and appreciate Lebron anyway? I certainly can.

This is all sensible aside from rating Jordan and LeBron as belonging to different tiers defensively, imo. They're pretty much at the same level, around A- using your rating system. Jordan is nowhere near the likes of Hakeem, either.

I'd say rating Jordan and LeBron as A+ on offense and A- on defense while rating Hakeem as the inverse of that would be accurate. Though I do think the parity of great individual offense/great individual defense isn't 50-50. It's probably around 55-45. Great individual offense moves the needle more as defense is more of a team effort. That's what puts Jordan and LeBron (and Kareem) a tier above Hakeem in my estimation. I'd have Wilt there as well but he wasn't as consistent and could be a black hole before his Sixers years. (Similar to a young Hakeem in that sense, actually)