PG: Raptors Win!

[Grew]

This argument makes no sense as Walter and dick are not any better in this regard

totally disagree about Dick. the vast majority of his decisions with the ball are good decisions, because the vast majority of the time he gets it he moves it quickly, which is the essence of our offense. the problem is that when he then moves without the ball nobody ever passes it to him. dick's game is based on movement but our starters rarely take advantage of that movement. it's too bad. like a lot of players Dick hits more of the shots he does take when his teammates show confidence in him and look for him, instead of feeling left out and forcing stuff after a while. Dick has shown he can fill the bucket when he is integrated into the offense and not a last option. wish we'd look for him more often.

this does not match anything that i see in regards to dick's game. again, it seems like people are trying so hard to find ways to blame everyone else except dick himself. anytime that happens, it usually means the player is not that great.

This is just you trying really hard to hate Gradey not everyone else trying to take blame off of him.

You watch games like an ostrich with it's head in the sand until you hear Gradey making a mistake, then you run to the board and post about it.

Do you even like anyone on this team? All I hear is hate from you.

[lobosloboslobos]

This argument makes no sense as Walter and dick are not any better in this regard

totally disagree about Dick. the vast majority of his decisions with the ball are good decisions, because the vast majority of the time he gets it he moves it quickly, which is the essence of our offense. the problem is that when he then moves without the ball nobody ever passes it to him. dick's game is based on movement but our starters rarely take advantage of that movement. it's too bad. like a lot of players Dick hits more of the shots he does take when his teammates show confidence in him and look for him, instead of feeling left out and forcing stuff after a while. Dick has shown he can fill the bucket when he is integrated into the offense and not a last option. wish we'd look for him more often.

this does not match anything that i see in regards to dick's game. again, it seems like people are trying so hard to find ways to blame everyone else except dick himself. anytime that happens, it usually means the player is not that great.

um if you don't think dick moves the ball quickly 80-90% of the time he gets it then you may be watching the wrong dick.

[TheGeneral99]

Read on Twitter

creeping up towards that top-right quadrant

The East is wide open this year. There's no dominant team out there.

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

[tsherkin]

Nice to get a win!

Best win of Darko era?

It was certainly one which felt great. See-saw battle, massive 4th quarter beating the fight out of them... Huge games from Scottie, Quick and Poeltl. Mamu off the bench like a machine.

Yeah, that was a great game!

[MiamiSPX]

Read on Twitter

creeping up towards that top-right quadrant

The East is wide open this year. There's no dominant team out there.

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

[Boogie!]

totally disagree about Dick. the vast majority of his decisions with the ball are good decisions, because the vast majority of the time he gets it he moves it quickly, which is the essence of our offense. the problem is that when he then moves without the ball nobody ever passes it to him. dick's game is based on movement but our starters rarely take advantage of that movement. it's too bad. like a lot of players Dick hits more of the shots he does take when his teammates show confidence in him and look for him, instead of feeling left out and forcing stuff after a while. Dick has shown he can fill the bucket when he is integrated into the offense and not a last option. wish we'd look for him more often.

this does not match anything that i see in regards to dick's game. again, it seems like people are trying so hard to find ways to blame everyone else except dick himself. anytime that happens, it usually means the player is not that great.

This is just you trying really hard to hate Gradey not everyone else trying to take blame off of him.

You watch games like an ostrich with it's head in the sand until you hear Gradey making a mistake, then you run to the board and post about it.

Do you even like anyone on this team? All I hear is hate from you.

This stupid take is getting stale. Just go back a few pages and look what I wrote about Rj Barrett. The only way your argument is even valid is if you literally never have any criticism about any player ever, you never ask anyone to be traded and you act like every player on this team is a positive contributor. And I guarantee that’s not true and that’s not possible. The difference between you and I is again I’ve said this before, I actually am aware of what I’m saying and stick by my beliefs. I’m also not afraid to have a take that’s different than the masses.

There was a faction of this board that kept talking about how **** quickley was when he had his Cold start to the season, and I kept on defending him saying he has a track record of success and we need a player like him because he makes 3s that no one else on this team can make. The fact that you never bring any of this up and still keep making these ignorant statements like “you never say anything positive” just makes it more clear you have an agenda and just eat up what the masses say. Go attack the quickley haters with the same energy.

[Madvillainy2004]

The East is wide open this year. There's no dominant team out there.

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

I think losing your leader in Hali just takes a toll and known of their young guys have done a goddamn thing either. Jarace Walker and Ben Sheppard dont even look like an NBA players and those were both 1st round guys. Siakam is doing his best but with no Mathurin or Toppin either theyre just a mess.

[JB7]

The East is wide open this year. There's no dominant team out there.

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

Also, once Hali went down for the season, it became clear with the team not resigning Turner and trading to reacquire their 1st for the upcoming draft, that they were probably looking at tanking this season. Their tank has been aided by injuries to start the season (much as was the case for the Raps last season).

I'm sure competitive players like Nesmith/Nembhard/Siakam who just made it to the final the previous season, are not exactly thrilled with tanking this season, especially since they only have so many years left in their careers.

But a tank makes sense for the Pacers, who are looking at a tax crunch coming, with their current salaries. They only have $20M in space under the tax next season, and Mathurin is a FA, let alone adding their draft picks to the roster. And the following season Jarace Walker & Ben Sheppard are FAs.

So for them, it makes sense to get a high draft pick this season, to start to rebuild their depth with talent on rookie scale deals.

Another team I see eventually employing this strategy as well, if they are not already doing it, is the Celtics.

[JB7]

Read on Twitter

creeping up towards that top-right quadrant

The East is wide open this year. There's no dominant team out there.

The Raps efficiency will just improve dramatically over the next week, as they play the Pacers, Hornets, Sixers, Wizards & Nets.

Also, it is amazing how many bad teams are in the NBA right now. And not just in the East. The West is not looking really strong this year, outside of the top 6.

[MiamiSPX]

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

I think losing your leader in Hali just takes a toll and known of their young guys have done a goddamn thing either. Jarace Walker and Ben Sheppard dont even look like an NBA players and those were both 1st round guys. Siakam is doing his best but with no Mathurin or Toppin either theyre just a mess.

It's funny that those are the guys (Walker and Sheppard) that everyone wanted in our trade. Sometimes you just have to trust the guys that do this for a living. It's not that we "accepted" Bruce Brown.....the Raps specifically wanted him so they could flip him. And yeah, Sheppard is awful. Walker is being given every chance right now to show he belongs, and the results are not good.

[MEDIC]

I think our best line up is

Poeltl
Barnes
Ingram
IQ
Shead

Put RJ in for IQ. IQ is the perfect 6th man. We need people who can drive to the net in the starting lineup. Having height at the 2 helps. That second unit would be killer from the line.

Nope. You need IQ’s shooting and spacing.

If RJ isn’t hyper efficient, he’s a negative. He’s better suited to lead bench line ups that don’t have a go to scorer.

Either way, nobody is good enough at the moment to move RJ to the bench at the moment, even if there’s better fits on the line up.

You could say the same thing about IQ. When he isn't on a torrid shooting streak, he doesn't bring much value. If IQ can keep this up, he'll be Steph Curry lite. If he is hot and cold, he's Gary Trent.

The reason I like Kyle Lowry (& Fred to a degree) so much was even when his shot wasn't falling, he still brought so much to the table with his defense, leadership, playmaking & BBall IQ. Those are the types of players that I like.

If I was to pick between playing an offensively challenged IQ & and offensively challenged RJ (both are having bad shooting nights), I would pick RJ every time. He brings more to the table with rebounding & I also think he is the better defender between the two (because of his size & physicality).

[JB7]

It might not be doable right now, but if Shead can still capably get his offensive game off in terms of penetration/paint touches against starting quality opposition he could really be a major key figure going forward in terms of offering a different look in closing lineups and letting us get the absolute best out of IQ in terms of freeing him up to be more of an off-ball gunner. And I think that's pretty important as unlocking that part of his game really changes the dynamic of what this team can be on the offensive end. And I think that's what we signed him up to be.

Not to say he can't be a rote traditional playmaker if you need him to be but akin to asking Scottie to sit above the 3 pt line and be a half-court creator, it's not really getting the best out of him imo. What we saw last night was very similar to what he looked like at his best in NY. Let him get his Lou Will on!

And in a game like this, it was refreshing in that we really saw IQ and Scottie excel simply just doing what they're best at. Scottie pushing in transition, getting to the rim, setting teammates up and out-hustling everyone. IQ being aggressive/confident with his shot, stretching the defense, and scoring in a variety of ways.

I do appreciate that the org wants to expand their games and I think they're more well-rounded because of those efforts, but too much of that can be counter-productive at a point.

As for BI/RJ, I'm not really worried. RJ is just struggling with his shot/scoring for whatever reason but I don't think it's anything to be worried about. He'll bounce-back and even in the mean-time he's not short-changing in terms of effort at all.

As for BI, his ability to create/score in the half-court is simply invaluable and frees Scottie up from trying to do it. And because of him, we can now score in pretty much any situation. We can play slow or fast. In transition or in the half-court. Thus, it's not surprising that we have a top ten offense now.

Also shout-out to Yak who finally looks back to his usual self. He was great, grabbing boards, scoring efficiently on the inside and doing all the dirty work that frees the others up to get their games off.

The exciting part is that this is really still just the beginning of the journey with this iteration of the team. The discovery process is still ongoing from game to game and there's still many more levels to this to go, especially when you consider that there are still further consolidation trades/moves to be made. Hell, we didn't have CMB available last night.

We went through years of absolutely crap basketball but we've finally made it to the other side. Better watch out, that bandwagon will start to fill real quick, especially if they go on the run for the rest of this month that we expect.

While I agree, BI's game provides the Raps with an option in the halfcourt game, you can also see how BI's game just does not appear to mesh right now with the fast paced game the Raps are trying to play. He has not been great in catch and shoot situations. And he really seems to like slowing the game down to get his shot off, which runs counter to the way Darko seems to want to have the team play.

It will be interesting to see if BI can adapt his game more to the up tempo game the team is trying to play, which would increase his production and efficiency. Or if his tendency's force the team to go in another direction.

[lobosloboslobos]

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

I think losing your leader in Hali just takes a toll and known of their young guys have done a goddamn thing either. Jarace Walker and Ben Sheppard dont even look like an NBA players and those were both 1st round guys. Siakam is doing his best but with no Mathurin or Toppin either theyre just a mess.

Pascal really has come to play and keeps delivering but it must be tough to lose every night despite leaving it all on the floor.

[PushDaRock]

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

Also, once Hali went down for the season, it became clear with the team not resigning Turner and trading to reacquire their 1st for the upcoming draft, that they were probably looking at tanking this season. Their tank has been aided by injuries to start the season (much as was the case for the Raps last season).

I'm sure competitive players like Nesmith/Nembhard/Siakam who just made it to the final the previous season, are not exactly thrilled with tanking this season, especially since they only have so many years left in their careers.

But a tank makes sense for the Pacers, who are looking at a tax crunch coming, with their current salaries. They only have $20M in space under the tax next season, and Mathurin is a FA, let alone adding their draft picks to the roster. And the following season Jarace Walker & Ben Sheppard are FAs.

So for them, it makes sense to get a high draft pick this season, to start to rebuild their depth with talent on rookie scale deals.

Another team I see eventually employing this strategy as well, if they are not already doing it, is the Celtics.

They're shooting at 40% from field and 30% from 3. You really don't see something that bad over a 12 game stretch in the NBA.

I don't think the Celtics will be able to do it. Tatum is likely back in the new year and their NRTG so far probably indicates they are better than their current record. It will be difficult to not make the play-in. They will need some injury "luck" to pull it off.

[JB7]

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

Also, once Hali went down for the season, it became clear with the team not resigning Turner and trading to reacquire their 1st for the upcoming draft, that they were probably looking at tanking this season. Their tank has been aided by injuries to start the season (much as was the case for the Raps last season).

I'm sure competitive players like Nesmith/Nembhard/Siakam who just made it to the final the previous season, are not exactly thrilled with tanking this season, especially since they only have so many years left in their careers.

But a tank makes sense for the Pacers, who are looking at a tax crunch coming, with their current salaries. They only have $20M in space under the tax next season, and Mathurin is a FA, let alone adding their draft picks to the roster. And the following season Jarace Walker & Ben Sheppard are FAs.

So for them, it makes sense to get a high draft pick this season, to start to rebuild their depth with talent on rookie scale deals.

Another team I see eventually employing this strategy as well, if they are not already doing it, is the Celtics.

They're shooting at 40% from field and 30% from 3. You really don't see something that bad over a 12 game stretch in the NBA.

I don't think the Celtics will be able to do it. Tatum is likely back in the new year and their NRTG so far probably indicates they are better than their current record. It will be difficult to not make the play-in. They will need some injury "luck" to pull it off.

I have been waiting to see if they sit Brown or White for an extended period with an 'injury'.

[PushDaRock]

Just wild how Indiana loses Hali and Turner and they go from arguably the most dynamic offense last year to dead last.

After our game, I tuned into theirs last night and man are they bad. Horrible body language too from Nesmith (who left the game with injury) and Nembhard. I am almost positive there has been infighting that the public has not been privy to. They have been blown out in like 6-7 of their losses.

We should beat them tomorrow night but these desperate teams are sometimes scary.

I think losing your leader in Hali just takes a toll and known of their young guys have done a goddamn thing either. Jarace Walker and Ben Sheppard dont even look like an NBA players and those were both 1st round guys. Siakam is doing his best but with no Mathurin or Toppin either theyre just a mess.

Crazy to see a team who's strength was their depth still get decimated with injuries to this point.

Funny enough, our current team actually greatly resembles their team from last year in a lot of areas.

[MEDIC]

Also, once Hali went down for the season, it became clear with the team not resigning Turner and trading to reacquire their 1st for the upcoming draft, that they were probably looking at tanking this season. Their tank has been aided by injuries to start the season (much as was the case for the Raps last season).

I'm sure competitive players like Nesmith/Nembhard/Siakam who just made it to the final the previous season, are not exactly thrilled with tanking this season, especially since they only have so many years left in their careers.

I had no idea that they re-acquired their pick. This makes sense now. They are in full on tank mode.

[LLJ]

It might not be doable right now, but if Shead can still capably get his offensive game off in terms of penetration/paint touches against starting quality opposition he could really be a major key figure going forward in terms of offering a different look in closing lineups and letting us get the absolute best out of IQ in terms of freeing him up to be more of an off-ball gunner. And I think that's pretty important as unlocking that part of his game really changes the dynamic of what this team can be on the offensive end. And I think that's what we signed him up to be.

Not to say he can't be a rote traditional playmaker if you need him to be but akin to asking Scottie to sit above the 3 pt line and be a half-court creator, it's not really getting the best out of him imo. What we saw last night was very similar to what he looked like at his best in NY. Let him get his Lou Will on!

And in a game like this, it was refreshing in that we really saw IQ and Scottie excel simply just doing what they're best at. Scottie pushing in transition, getting to the rim, setting teammates up and out-hustling everyone. IQ being aggressive/confident with his shot, stretching the defense, and scoring in a variety of ways.

I do appreciate that the org wants to expand their games and I think they're more well-rounded because of those efforts, but too much of that can be counter-productive at a point.

As for BI/RJ, I'm not really worried. RJ is just struggling with his shot/scoring for whatever reason but I don't think it's anything to be worried about. He'll bounce-back and even in the mean-time he's not short-changing in terms of effort at all.

As for BI, his ability to create/score in the half-court is simply invaluable and frees Scottie up from trying to do it. And because of him, we can now score in pretty much any situation. We can play slow or fast. In transition or in the half-court. Thus, it's not surprising that we have a top ten offense now.

Also shout-out to Yak who finally looks back to his usual self. He was great, grabbing boards, scoring efficiently on the inside and doing all the dirty work that frees the others up to get their games off.

The exciting part is that this is really still just the beginning of the journey with this iteration of the team. The discovery process is still ongoing from game to game and there's still many more levels to this to go, especially when you consider that there are still further consolidation trades/moves to be made. Hell, we didn't have CMB available last night.

We went through years of absolutely crap basketball but we've finally made it to the other side. Better watch out, that bandwagon will start to fill real quick, especially if they go on the run for the rest of this month that we expect.

While I agree, BI's game provides the Raps with an option in the halfcourt game, you can also see how BI's game just does not appear to mesh right now with the fast paced game the Raps are trying to play. He has not been great in catch and shoot situations. And he really seems to like slowing the game down to get his shot off, which runs counter to the way Darko seems to want to have the team play.

It will be interesting to see if BI can adapt his game more to the up tempo game the team is trying to play, which would increase his production and efficiency. Or if his tendency's force the team to go in another direction.

Yeah, BI's game is more tailored to halfcourt play, he's basically an iso heavy forward. But that's not a bad thing because eventually many games do slow down, especially in the playoffs. Not every game or possession will be uptempo, and that's when you get the ball to BI to score over someone. The good thing is BI does actually pass sometimes, so he's not a complete black hole either.

In the uptempo games he can just lay back and let Scottie/IQ take over.

[HumbleRen]

Put RJ in for IQ. IQ is the perfect 6th man. We need people who can drive to the net in the starting lineup. Having height at the 2 helps. That second unit would be killer from the line.

Nope. You need IQ’s shooting and spacing.

If RJ isn’t hyper efficient, he’s a negative. He’s better suited to lead bench line ups that don’t have a go to scorer.

Either way, nobody is good enough at the moment to move RJ to the bench at the moment, even if there’s better fits on the line up.

You could say the same thing about IQ. When he isn't on a torrid shooting streak, he doesn't bring much value. If IQ can keep this up, he'll be Steph Curry lite. If he is hot and cold, he's Gary Trent.

The reason I like Kyle Lowry (& Fred to a degree) so much was even when his shot wasn't falling, he still brought so much to the table with his defense, leadership, playmaking & BBall IQ. Those are the types of players that I like.

If I was to pick between playing an offensively challenged IQ & and offensively challenged RJ (both are having bad shooting nights), I would pick RJ every time. He brings more to the table with rebounding & I also think he is the better defender between the two (because of his size & physicality).

Nah cause teams still respect IQ from the 3 even when he’s missing.

RJ just doesn’t have that spacing gravity yet. His rep as a shooter hasn’t improved even though he has improved as a shooter.

If I had to pick one, it’s easily IQ. He’s just a more malleable fit and easier to hide on defence.

You can hide PG’s but it’s much harder to hide wings who can’t defend.

Just look around the league at the good teams over the recent years and look at who starts for them at the SG spot.

Denver - Braun is an above average defender at the SG spot.
OKC - Dort/Cason are great defenders.
Wolves - Antman is a great defender.
Rockets - Amen is a great defender.
Pacers - Nembhard is a great defender.
Knicks - Mikal Bridges is a good defender.
Boston - Jrue/White/JB are very good defenders.

Etc etc.

It’s why the market for SG’s who are offence first has cratered over the last several years. RJ is going to make significantly less on his next contract vs what he’s making on this contract despite being 2X the player he was on the Knicks. It ain’t his fault, it’s just the way the league is adapting and changing.

[Jadoogar]

This was a legitimately good win, i think our first impressive win of the season.