It was a nice run, Jokic

[brutalitops]

Watch on YouTube

This is when I need Jokic. Game 7. Everything on the line. All the work and sweat and tears, all the film sessions, the plane flights, the big contracts it all comes down to this. Both teams everything on the line. Everyone in that arena thought that Jokic would take it home. He's the best player in the world. Make a play. Does he look like the best player in the world here? Does he look like a top 5 or top 10 player in the world here?

Watch on YouTube

Another game 7. Does he look like the best player in the world here? Yeah, putting up nice stat lines against a team that's 3-8 and completely dysfunctional is amazing. But dominate in the playoffs against a team that's fully scouted you. Knows everything you and your teammates like to do. Is 100% united. And going all out trying to win.

Bbbbut he won a finals. The best players in the league win in the playoffs year after year after year after year. They don't win one and turn into a pumpkin. They look like OKC. Win won and then continue dominating. NIkola Jokic the best regular season player in the game, and it's not close. But if you had to win one playoff game and could only choose active players are you really taking Jokic?

this is a bad post and you should feel ashamed

[prime1time]

The way the West looks now, if Jokic doesn't make a conference finals this year, I don't think he'll make it again. This is the worse Wemby will be and OKC isn't going anywhere. Ultimately, Wemby is coming. This year, next year. It really doesn't matter. I expect the Spurs to dominate the Nuggets in the playoffs.
.

Man, you waisted so many words, just to say is I don't think Jokic will make conferance finals again, and I expect Spurs will dominate Nuggets.
You as a fan could say I hope Wemby do will this or that...but to pretend to make some analysys how player who won it all will fail in the playoffs, and player who never played in the playoffs will dominate is funy.
Keep your fandome

I've made my position clear. Jokic plays a style of basketball that's built for the regular season. He's the offensive hub that the Nuggets run through. Haven't you seen the incredible stats? He leads the league in assists. Leads the league in rebounds. And sixth in points per game. The entire season the Nuggets spend their time not preparing to win in the playoffs but giving Jokic as much responsibility as possible. Smart teams would say, Jokic can do his thing. But let's figure out how to get everyone else going because in the playoffs we will need them. Some look at this and say he's the greatest ever.

I look at it and say, in the playoffs it's not sustainable. The intensity is too high. Expecting Jokic generate all this offense AND be the defensive anchor will not work.? Answer, they don't. "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." This style of play works good in the regular season and bad teams. In the playoffs against good teams it's a whole different story. Jokic won't be able to hide defensively, he's the defensive anchor. But he's also the offensive hub. Teams like OKC and the Spurs will attack the paint. Go at Jokic, force him to play both ends. Tire him out and turn him into an average player in critical moments. While also exploiting times when he's not on the floor.

This isn't fandom talking. It's common sense. Who are the players that play like Jokic? Guys that are offensive hubs and put up crazy stat lines. Bron, Harden, Doncic. Of those three everyone knows how Doncic's defense looked in the finals. Harden is literally known for his end of game struggles in the playoffs. And Bron the outlier who literally has playoff games where he played like 45+ minutes. But in those games Bron was able to take possessions off and let Kyrie do his thing. And he was able to hide defensively on guys that couldn't really attack.

The issue for Jokic is that he's the center. Center's are supposed to provide rim protection. This is the rub. People calling Jokic the best player in the NBA. Ok, fine. Well I've seen games where he didn't even show up defensively.
People on this board would look at this game and say it was one of Jokic's best. 22-39, 56 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists and absolutely no defense played and an L.
https://youtu.be/0Ps7hkAhJHE?si=BIopHUWCS5kH2hx4
This is Jokic happy place. Gaudy offensive stats, with no defense. Doesn't work in the Playoffs my guy. Not only that but his teammates know it to. WHen games get tough. And you have an opponent that not just going to lie down. When everything is on the line. Who are the Nuggets giving the ball to? Jokic. And the defense is going to throw everything they have at him. Then he's going to back on the defense and do what exactly? I know what I'm going to get from Wemby defensively. His teammates know it. They see the habits that have been built every practice, every game. Taking pride in stopping people. Going all out defensively. And the teammates feed off of it. You can call it fandom. I call it commons sense. Nikola Jokic is a player that produces amazing stats and takes no pride in playing defense. Jokic treats defense like it's someone else's responsibility.

[tsherkin]

The issue for Jokic is that he's the center. Center's are supposed to provide rim protection. This is the rub. People calling Jokic the best player in the NBA. Ok, fine. Well I've seen games where he didn't even show up defensively.

And I've seen games where Russell was invisible on offense, where KAJ's D left much to be desired, and where MJ looked like a dog's breakfast on both sides of the floor (or enjoying matchups who never had a chance to challenge him). What's your point? Performance ebbs and flows for various reasons across games.

As a general rule, you don't really seem to understand Jokic at all. You have an idea in your mind of a defensive archetype which doesn't always have to be true at all and with a lot of complaining without callbacks to other guys who have won without that being the case (Jokic himself already having a title), like Shaq (who wasn't a particularly remarkable defender at all). And you bang this gong again and again without context and without appreciation for all the other things that Joker is doing on the floor, and it's honestly a little wearisome because it's just such a flawed root premise.

[prime1time]

Man, you waisted so many words, just to say is I don't think Jokic will make conferance finals again, and I expect Spurs will dominate Nuggets.
You as a fan could say I hope Wemby do will this or that...but to pretend to make some analysys how player who won it all will fail in the playoffs, and player who never played in the playoffs will dominate is funy.
Keep your fandome

I've made my position clear. Jokic plays a style of basketball that's built for the regular season. He's the offensive hub that the Nuggets run through. Haven't you seen the incredible stats? He leads the league in assists. Leads the league in rebounds. And sixth in points per game. The entire season the Nuggets spend their time not preparing to win in the playoffs but giving Jokic as much responsibility as possible. Smart teams would say, Jokic can do his thing. But let's figure out how to get everyone else going because in the playoffs we will need them. Some look at this and say he's the greatest ever.

I look at it and say, in the playoffs it's not sustainable. The intensity is too high. Expecting Jokic generate all this offense AND be the defensive anchor will not work.? Answer, they don't. "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." This style of play works good in the regular season and bad teams. In the playoffs against good teams it's a whole different story. Jokic won't be able to hide defensively, he's the defensive anchor. But he's also the offensive hub. Teams like OKC and the Spurs will attack the paint. Go at Jokic, force him to play both ends. Tire him out and turn him into an average player in critical moments. While also exploiting times when he's not on the floor.

This isn't fandom talking. It's common sense. Who are the players that play like Jokic? Guys that are offensive hubs and put up crazy stat lines. Bron, Harden, Doncic. Of those three everyone knows how Doncic's defense looked in the finals. Harden is literally known for his end of game struggles in the playoffs. And Bron the outlier who literally has playoff games where he played like 45+ minutes. But in those games Bron was able to take possessions off and let Kyrie do his thing. And he was able to hide defensively on guys that couldn't really attack.

The issue for Jokic is that he's the center. Center's are supposed to provide rim protection. This is the rub. People calling Jokic the best player in the NBA. Ok, fine. Well I've seen games where he didn't even show up defensively.
People on this board would look at this game and say it was one of Jokic's best. 22-39, 56 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists and absolutely no defense played and an L.
https://youtu.be/0Ps7hkAhJHE?si=BIopHUWCS5kH2hx4
This is Jokic happy place. Gaudy offensive stats, with no defense. Doesn't work in the Playoffs my guy. Not only that but his teammates know it to. WHen games get tough. And you have an opponent that not just going to lie down. When everything is on the line. Who are the Nuggets giving the ball to? Jokic. And the defense is going to throw everything they have at him. Then he's going to back on the defense and do what exactly? I know what I'm going to get from Wemby defensively. His teammates know it. They see the habits that have been built every practice, every game. Taking pride in stopping people. Going all out defensively. And the teammates feed off of it. You can call it fandom. I call it commons sense. Nikola Jokic is a player that produces amazing stats and takes no pride in playing defense. Jokic treats defense like it's someone else's responsibility.

I want to be 100% clear. Jokic can win in the playoffs. If the games are nice and easy and not really that close. This style of basketball can work. That's how he won his first championsip. Games weren't really that close. Series weren't really that close. 4-1, 4-2, 4-0, 4-1. When the Nuggets can keep his minutes low. When opposing teams don't have the talent to make him work defensively. Jokic can be Jokic in the playoffs. But, in close series. Series that are back and forth and complete dog fights. And the Nuggets need Jokic more and more, and his minutes creep up 43, 44, 45, 46, 47. I have absolutely no faith in Jokic delivering at the end of those games. If you do, it's because you're a fan and not being objective.`

2 years back-to-back losses in game 7 playoffs. I'll give you OKC being the better team. But are we really going to sit here and say that the T-Wolves were better than the Nuggets?

Watch on YouTube

The answer is obvious. When you make Jokic work for the entire game, he stops being Jokic. And the Nuggets have no plan B. "Bbbbut what does that have to do with Jokic.' If I can only count on you when the going is easy and the games aren't tough, then I can't count on you at all. it's like an umbrella that only works if it's not raining.

[Blame Rasho]

You know when you are the guy posting 41 times to just bring down an all time great, maybe you should really ask yourself, what is wrong with me?

[tsherkin]

But are we really going to sit here and say that the T-Wolves were better than the Nuggets?

Do you remember how that series went down? Murray was 4/18 in Game 6, MPH was 3/9, KCP was 2/6, Braun was 1/6, Holiday was 0/5, Reggie Jackson was 0/6. Watson, Strawther and Hunter Tyson combined to shoot 1/6.

That was the series right there. That wasn't about defense; that was about a supporting cast which didn't come through at all. In Game 7, Jokic and Murray were both on, but the REST of the team shot 8/28, or less than 29% from the floor. They had no support, so they couldn't win. That's basketball.

In those last two games, Minny posted a team TS% of 55.2% (Game 6) and 53.1% (Game 7), against a playoff league-average of 58.0%. In Game 6, Denver opened with a 14-point quarter, and closed with a 9-point 4th quarter. Denver had a 14-point 3rd quarter in Game 7. Jokic had 14 points himself in the 4th, but the rest of the team shot 4/10 and was 1/6 from 3.

Being starved of offensive support killed them. Not Jokic's defense.

[Blame Rasho]

But are we really going to sit here and say that the T-Wolves were better than the Nuggets?

Do you remember how that series went down? Murray was 4/18 in Game 6, MPH was 3/9, KCP was 2/6, Braun was 1/6, Holiday was 0/5, Reggie Jackson was 0/6. Watson, Strawther and Hunter Tyson combined to shoot 1/6.

That was the series right there. That wasn't about defense; that was about a supporting cast which didn't come through at all. In Game 7, Jokic and Murray were both on, but the REST of the team shot 8/28, or less than 29% from the floor. They had no support, so they couldn't win. That's basketball.

In those last two games, Minny posted a team TS% of 55.2% (Game 6) and 53.1% (Game 7), against a playoff league-average of 58.0%. In Game 6, Denver opened with a 14-point quarter, and closed with a 9-point 4th quarter. Denver had a 14-point 3rd quarter in Game 7. Jokic had 14 points himself in the 4th, but the rest of the team shot 4/10 and was 1/6 from 3.

Being starved of offensive support killed them. Not Jokic's defense.

You are wrong. It is all on jokic fault that the nuggets couldn’t win. He sucks as a defender. He is too fat and slow to succeed in the nba.

[tsherkin]

But are we really going to sit here and say that the T-Wolves were better than the Nuggets?

Do you remember how that series went down? Murray was 4/18 in Game 6, MPH was 3/9, KCP was 2/6, Braun was 1/6, Holiday was 0/5, Reggie Jackson was 0/6. Watson, Strawther and Hunter Tyson combined to shoot 1/6.

That was the series right there. That wasn't about defense; that was about a supporting cast which didn't come through at all. In Game 7, Jokic and Murray were both on, but the REST of the team shot 8/28, or less than 29% from the floor. They had no support, so they couldn't win. That's basketball.

In those last two games, Minny posted a team TS% of 55.2% (Game 6) and 53.1% (Game 7), against a playoff league-average of 58.0%. In Game 6, Denver opened with a 14-point quarter, and closed with a 9-point 4th quarter. Denver had a 14-point 3rd quarter in Game 7. Jokic had 14 points himself in the 4th, but the rest of the team shot 4/10 and was 1/6 from 3.

Being starved of offensive support killed them. Not Jokic's defense.

You are wrong. It is all on jokic fault that the nuggets couldn’t win. He sucks as a defender. He is too fat and slow to succeed in the nba.

I love you, Rasho xD

[BelgradeNugget]

The way the West looks now, if Jokic doesn't make a conference finals this year, I don't think he'll make it again. This is the worse Wemby will be and OKC isn't going anywhere. Ultimately, Wemby is coming. This year, next year. It really doesn't matter. I expect the Spurs to dominate the Nuggets in the playoffs.
.

Man, you waisted so many words, just to say is I don't think Jokic will make conferance finals again, and I expect Spurs will dominate Nuggets.
You as a fan could say I hope Wemby do will this or that...but to pretend to make some analysys how player who won it all will fail in the playoffs, and player who never played in the playoffs will dominate is funy.
Keep your fandome

I've made my position clear.

Yes you did. You expect, hope and think.
Keep expecting, hoping, and thinking, no need to waste digital space any more.

[Ito]

Wemby the face of the league.. maybe not the face face kuz he haven’t won anything but he’s what the league have in store for us moving on he’s what Luka was a few years ago when people were looking for a face and they were claiming Giannis and Jokic were

Imo, Wemby already surpassed Durant as a player but that’s not neither here or there that’s another topic for another thread

-edit
Yes I’m playing but yes Wemby already passed Durant in the all time rankings you heard it here first.. those that know me know I’m not really big on Durant and never with the hype, those rings he won in GS are meaningless and the rest of his career been a flop.. I mean after GS it has been before GS it could have led somewhere not as good as Bron but just ahead of let’s say a Melo all time

[tsherkin]

Yes I’m playing but yes Wemby already passed Durant in the all time rankings you heard it here first..

I mean, that's obviously nonsense, even if it's very possible that he will if he remains healthy. He's not done enough to pass an established player like that. No all-time team rankings, no MVP, no DPOY, not nearly enough stat accrual, no playoffs. Hasn't even managed to reach .500 in a season.

Potential is one thing, but all-time rankings require certain levels of achievement which Wemby absolutely has not reached.

those that know me know I’m not really big on Durant and never with the hype, those rings he won in GS are meaningless and the rest of his career been a flop..

Well, that's obviously not true. He was an MVP, he took his team to the Finals, he had 4 scoring titles in 5 years. That's a rare set of achievements. To call his career with the Thunder a "flop" is ridiculous, motivated only by dislike of the person instead of objective examination of the player.

[Ito]

Yes I’m playing but yes Wemby already passed Durant in the all time rankings you heard it here first..

I mean, that's obviously nonsense, even if it's very possible that he will if he remains healthy. He's not done enough to pass an established player like that. No all-time team rankings, no MVP, no DPOY, not nearly enough stat accrual, no playoffs. Hasn't even managed to reach .500 in a season.

Potential is one thing, but all-time rankings require certain levels of achievement which Wemby absolutely has not reached.

those that know me know I’m not really big on Durant and never with the hype, those rings he won in GS are meaningless and the rest of his career been a flop..

Well, that's obviously not true. He was an MVP, he took his team to the Finals, he had 4 scoring titles in 5 years. That's a rare set of achievements. To call his career with the Thunder a "flop" is ridiculous, motivated only by dislike of the person instead of objective examination of the player.

I mean I did say I was playing.. and you did say “potentially” .. that’s exactly what I meant.. I don’t gota respond I made it clear what my point was and everybody entitled to their opinions but yea that’s exactly the point.. potentially since Wemby hasn’t won anything yet

[PushDaRock]

Wemby the face of the league.. maybe not the face face kuz he haven’t won anything but he’s what the league have in store for us moving on he’s what Luka was a few years ago when people were looking for a face and they were claiming Giannis and Jokic were

Imo, Wemby already surpassed Durant as a player but that’s not neither here or there that’s another topic for another thread

-edit
Yes I’m playing but yes Wemby already passed Durant in the all time rankings you heard it here first.. those that know me know I’m not really big on Durant and never with the hype, those rings he won in GS are meaningless and the rest of his career been a flop.. I mean after GS it has been before GS it could have led somewhere not as good as Bron but just ahead of let’s say a Melo all time

lol seems like you made this post just to dunk on Durant

[Ito]

Wemby the face of the league.. maybe not the face face kuz he haven’t won anything but he’s what the league have in store for us moving on he’s what Luka was a few years ago when people were looking for a face and they were claiming Giannis and Jokic were

Imo, Wemby already surpassed Durant as a player but that’s not neither here or there that’s another topic for another thread

-edit
Yes I’m playing but yes Wemby already passed Durant in the all time rankings you heard it here first.. those that know me know I’m not really big on Durant and never with the hype, those rings he won in GS are meaningless and the rest of his career been a flop.. I mean after GS it has been before GS it could have led somewhere not as good as Bron but just ahead of let’s say a Melo all time

lol seems like you made this post just to dunk on Durant

Not really sorta kuz they are similar players in the sense that they long and can move and what not.. just sum I wanted to throw out there so later on wen it happens I can look back and say I was right lolol just talking basketball I don care bout these ppl

[HotRocks34]

Quick recap:

* Denver ran out of gas against the Wolves in Game 7. That's been acknowledged by the team and was a worry all season with their weak depth and after playing into June the previous title year. Jokic had 34/19/7 and the top Game Score of the contest

* In Game 7 against the Thunder last year, the following issues were at play:

- Murray was sick
- Westbrook broken hand
- Gordon hamstring injury

Jokic came out of the game, for good, with 9:46 left in the 4Q. At that time Denver had 74 points. I've broken this game down in another thread, in the past.

Of Denver's 74 points, Jokic accounted for 36 of them with his own scoring and because of his assists (including one Gordon and-1 free throw from a Jokic assist). So Jokic accounted for around 49% of Denver's points in the contest before he left the game for good.

To put this into context, when SGA left the game in the 4Q the Thunder had scored 114 points. SGA had accounted for around 45 of them with his scoring and assists (I did not look up SGA's free throw assists). So SGA accounted for approximately 39% of OKC's offense before leaving the game for good.

Jokic showed up big in the game but understandably didn't get enough support from injured and sick teammates.

[tsherkin]

I mean I did say I was playing..

But it's daft stuff at best, not worth even typing.

potentially since Wemby hasn’t won anything yet

Right, but it's somewhat empty, because any player who looks decent over his first couple of seasons has that sort of potential.

[Ito]

I mean I did say I was playing..

But it's daft stuff at best, not worth even typing.

potentially since Wemby hasn’t won anything yet

Right, but it's somewhat empty, because any player who looks decent over his first couple of seasons has that sort of potential.

Not true.. that’s why people have eyes and different ways to process and express what they see

You could read what I said and think I’m just hating on Durant but I’m actually still agreeing to what I said, and agreeing to what you said that it was potential.. a hypothetical opinion that I said but based on facts of what I’m watching from these players

[tsherkin]

You could read what I said and think I’m just hating on Durant but I’m actually still agreeing to what I said, and agreeing to what you said that it was potential.. a hypothetical opinion that I said but based on facts of what I’m watching from these players

It's far easier to just say "Wemby is awesome and he projects very well" than to involve another player while taking potshots at that guy, as you did with KD.

[Ito]

You could read what I said and think I’m just hating on Durant but I’m actually still agreeing to what I said, and agreeing to what you said that it was potential.. a hypothetical opinion that I said but based on facts of what I’m watching from these players

It's far easier to just say "Wemby is awesome and he projects very well" than to involve another player while taking potshots at that guy, as you did with KD.

No.. actually I was about to edit my post and say not just any player that I was just talking about Wemby.. yes any player can look decent for a few years but we are not talking about any player we are talking about a player that’s Yao size but moving like Durant to make it easier for you to understand

[tsherkin]

No.. actually I was about to edit my post and say not just any player that I was just talking about Wemby.. yes any player can look decent for a few years but we are not talking about any player we are talking about a player that’s Yao size but moving like Durant to make it easier for you to understand

Yes, he's a generational prospect. But like any player, his career could any time. Or he could get too slow as he ages, might never realize his potential. Not even a half-decade in, there are so many what-ifs that it literally doesn't make any logical sense to make such claims before he has any achievements of relevance to an ATG type of ranking.

It simply isn't substantive. It's just a projection, and it can be done quite handily without taking needless shots at an actual ATG player.