Are people lower on Cooper Flagg?

[Blame Rasho]

Are we really doing this 12 games in?? Be better RealGM

How long have you been here?

The fact you ask this disappoints me.

[WiggOuts]

Google "who is the youngest player in the NBA"

[cucad8]

Are we really doing this 12 games in?? Be better RealGM

How long have you been here?

The fact you ask this disappoints me.

Touche

[WiggOuts]

Its not very common for a rookie to enter the league being the best (active) player on their team. How much can you expect from a teenager in a league of the best in the world in his first month of experience

Also, anyone expecting Coop to be some big time scorer are going to be disappointed, that was never his game

[MrGoat]

Luka through November 14th

19.1 pts
4 TOV
4.2 AST
6.4 TRB
12.8 GmSc
-99.6 on the court
eFG 55.1%

Remember the dumb scouting on Luka was that he was about as NBA ready as anyone ever, but didn't have upside (wild I know).

Flagg

15.1 pts
2.3 TOV
3.3 AST
6.8 TRB
11.2 GmSc
-118 on the court
eFG 46.5

So sure Flagg isn't doing what Luka did, but Luka didn't exactly come out on fire either.

Problem at that time was DSJ who was suppose to still be their primary PG. And also that team was filled with more or less washed up veterans which resulted in the mid season fire sell.

Coop has been drafted into a much better team but it lacks a proper playmaker to function. If given the keys, i think his stats would go up but he might still struggle because he's also a different player. It's not exactly apples to apples comparisons what i am trying to say.

Luka was almost in the dead opposite position of Flagg. He was a PG they weren't playing at PG, granted they weren't completely sure what his position was coming in (and Kidd has already mostly scrapped the Flagg at PG thing). Carlisle also didn't like playing super young guards, he kind of ruined DSJ's development by keeping him on too tight of a leash in his rookie season and he never gained the confidence in his shot. He probably cost Luka a shot to make the All Star game in the rookie year because he didn't take the leash off of Luka until he gave up on DSJ and Luka already was at such a power level it was time to take the leash off and he started dropping triple doubles and the rest was history.

Cooper's shooting better on pull-up threes for some reason. Kind of like Wemby's rookie season.

Pull-up: 37.5% on 2.0 3pa/g
Catch-and-shoot: 20% on 2.1 3pa/g

Could be that a lot of pull up threes are in transition where there are less close out opportunities for the opponent.

Nailed it. Dallas tries to play at a high pace and attack in transition because their halfcourt offense is complete dog poo. Cooper is currently at his best when he gets a rebound and just takes off in transition

[Ice Man]

It's hard to play in this league as an 18 year old. Per 36 -

Kobe - 18/4/3, 54% TS%
Giannis - 10/6/3, 52% TS%
LeBron - 19/5/5, 49% TS%
Cooper - 17/7/4, 51% TS%

True, Cooper's era is the easiest in which to score points, so you need to discount his numbers by a bit, but even so, his numbers fit within that group.

[tsherkin]

It's hard to play in this league as an 18 year old. Per 36 -

Kobe - 18/4/3, 54% TS%
Giannis - 10/6/3, 52% TS%
LeBron - 19/5/5, 49% TS%
Cooper - 17/7/4, 51% TS%

True, Cooper's era is the easiest in which to score points, so you need to discount his numbers by a bit, but even so, his numbers fit within that group.

I mean, you can further support that thusly:

Kobe: 102 TS+ (in a heavily-suppressed offensive environment, but still), 5.9 FGA/g
Giannis: 96 TS+, 5.4 FGA/g
Lebron: 95 TS+ (at the end of the same era Kobe played in), 18.9 FGA/g
Cooper: 88 TS+ so far, 13.3 FGA/g

So you can see that Lebron and Flagg supported a heavier actual offensive load during their rookie campaigns. And Kobe was joining a team which had just won 53 games the year prior, with loads of offensive support, while the rest of these guys... not so much.

It's worth the thought, because not all rookie environments are the same, but most of them struggle, especially when you stress them with shot creation duties and don't get them off-ball enough, etc.

[ropjhk]

I think some expectations may have been unrealistic. I think some people have been expecting him to be an immediate star who would be included in GOAT conversations like Wemby.

[liquidswords]

Not even a chance...Jason Kidd made one of the dumbest decisions by playing Coop at PG. If he's back on the wing, attacking and primarily looking to score, he'll be fine.

[Ayt]

The kid has legit skill but I never saw him as an alpha dog MVP generation guy(not sure how people saw that). I think his best case scenario is something like Jason tatum. All star all potential all nba guy but never an absolute super star, LeBron, curry, giannis, wemby type of guy.

Well, they saw him as being a Tatum type player with 1st Team All-D defense and Tatum has been 1st Team All-NBA for 4 straight seasons (and has finished 6th, 4th, 6th, and 4th in MVP voting). If Flagg were to actually achieve that, he'd clearly be one of the best players in the league and a threat to win the MVP in any given season (since so much of the MVP award is about narrative).

Tatum with a better offensive mind (shot selection, better playmaking) and better defense is a generational talent and that is what many project for Flagg if he reaches his potential.

[Ayt]

It's hard to play in this league as an 18 year old. Per 36 -

Kobe - 18/4/3, 54% TS%
Giannis - 10/6/3, 52% TS%
LeBron - 19/5/5, 49% TS%
Cooper - 17/7/4, 51% TS%

True, Cooper's era is the easiest in which to score points, so you need to discount his numbers by a bit, but even so, his numbers fit within that group.

I mean, you can further support that thusly:

Kobe: 102 TS+ (in a heavily-suppressed offensive environment, but still), 5.9 FGA/g
Giannis: 96 TS+, 5.4 FGA/g
Lebron: 95 TS+ (at the end of the same era Kobe played in), 18.9 FGA/g
Cooper: 88 TS+ so far, 13.3 FGA/g

So you can see that Lebron and Flagg supported a heavier actual offensive load during their rookie campaigns. And Kobe was joining a team which had just won 53 games the year prior, with loads of offensive support, while the rest of these guys... not so much.

It's worth the thought, because not all rookie environments are the same, but most of them struggle, especially when you stress them with shot creation duties and don't get them off-ball enough, etc.

It was absurd for Kidd to immediately thrust him into the PG role, especially with that lineup, when he didn't even do that in college.

[tmorgan]

I don’t mean to offend any Timmy D fans here, but Cooper Flagg’s ceiling is a Duncan kind of superstar. Obviously smaller, less rebounding, more playmaking, but similar in that he’s not some monster scoring machine, he’s just good at everything and is that rare superstar “glue” kind of guy.

Reminder that Duncan only averaged over 23.3 ppg once in his career, never led the league in rebounds or blocks, he just played right and won. And yes, I know Duncan was awesome as rookie and Flagg likely won’t be, but there’s a 3 year age difference there.

[tamaraw08]

Comparing 2025-26 rookies as PnR Ball Handlers:

Flagg: 0.74 ppp on 3.9 poss/g
Kon: 0.77 ppp on 2.0 poss/g
Coward: 0.81 ppp on 1.8 poss/g
Fears: 0.85 ppp on 5.5 poss/g
Harper: 0.68 ppp on 3.7 poss/g
Edgecombe: 0.58 ppp on 3.7 poss/g
Tre Johnson: 1.03 ppp on 2.8 poss/g
Demin: 0.71 ppp on 2.1 poss/g

Consider the quality of spacing and overall team offense these players are working in. Dallas has a historically bad offense (-10.8 rORtg) with horrific spacing (30th in 3PM, 23rd in 3PA, 29th in 3PT%, 21st in 3PAr). Cooper's offensive stats and performance should be looked at through this lens, acknowledging this extreme context. He's actually been better than D'Angelo Russell (0.55 ppp, 4.8 poss/g) and not far off B. Williams (0.84 ppp, 3.4 poss/g).

It's just a tough ask to compare him to Luka as a PnR ball handler, who's a legitimate PG. For comparison, Doncic did 0.89 ppp (69th percentile) on 8.7 poss/g (97th percentile) as a rookie in 2018-19. By year 2 (2019-20), he was basically what he is now: 1.04 ppp (95th percentile) on 13.3 poss/g (99th percentile). Career marks of 1.0 ppp (86th percentile) on 11.2 poss/g (99th percentile).

But Cooper isn't a PG, so the comparison isn't great. He's a point forward, which is more in line with LeBron and Tatum. Here's what their numbers look like:

2014-2025 LeBron (0.94 ppp [79th percentile] on 5.4 poss/g [85th percentile])
2018-2025 Tatum (0.95 ppp [77th percentile] on 5.0 poss/g [79th percentile])

Those are healthier marks to aim for that fit his position and archetype of a two-way point forward. Franz did 0.94 ppp on 6.4 poss/g last season and has a career mark of 0.90 ppp on 5.1 poss/g.

Great facts you shared here. thanks.
My question is, how much of this is on Flagg and Dallas' struggles as a whole, is on Jason Kidd and his staff?

[CobraCommander]

no...he is a rookie....he is great but who is going to replace luka or Lukas rookie year? NO ONE.

[Thaddy]

The fact that Luka didn't go first shows how much of a crapshoot the draft is. Flagg will be good but he's on a poorly built team with a stupid owner.

[tamaraw08]

It's hard to play in this league as an 18 year old. Per 36 -

Kobe - 18/4/3, 54% TS%
Giannis - 10/6/3, 52% TS%
LeBron - 19/5/5, 49% TS%
Cooper - 17/7/4, 51% TS%

True, Cooper's era is the easiest in which to score points, so you need to discount his numbers by a bit, but even so, his numbers fit within that group.

I remember being so frustrated with the 19 year old Brandon Ingram who had 12/5/2.6 rebs at 47.4 TS% per 36
Then 3 years later he was averaging 25/6.5/5 at 58.7 TS% per 36.

[ShootersShoot]

At least give the guy a full season..

Some fun cherry picked stats:
Steph first 17 games: 52% TS, 10.2ppg
KD first 25 games 39.4% FG, 19.7ppg
Bron first 22 games: 39% FG, 16.8ppg

[Archx]

This was from a podcast.

In the entire NBA, 22 players have defended at least 35 ISOs. Cooper Flagg is allowing the 4th fewest points per chance and the 4th fewest points per direct ISO. Again, this is the entire NBA.

Offensively, there have been 52 players in the NBA that have taken at least 10 drives per game this season (approximately 10% of the league). Flagg ranks 23rd out of these 52 players in field goal percentage on drives to the rim at 50.8% (middle of the pack). Even if it looks only average, he still ranks above guys like Maxey, Cade, Kawhi, Harden, Brunson, etc....

Long story short, this kid will be special in a few years.

[The Servant]

He's gonna be big. He is a PF getting reps. No one thought Luka would come in and do what he did and we won't see that again for a while.

[jmnvcavs]

He’s made some plays that have shown his potential. Look at the wemby post that is still active on this forum from his rookie year. 18-19 year old kids are going to take time.

Edit: just read through the rest of the posts on this thread. I swear people don’t watch basketball and only look at box scores. Go look at most of the superstar bigs rookie seasons and he is right in line with where he should be. He’s 18…