Is Scottie like the defensive JALEN JOHNSON?

[Thaddy]

22/10/6 65TS% is crap?

Not sure you want to ride on 11 games from a guy who hasn't managed more than 59% TS in a season to date after 4 previous years. Especially when it's taking him shooting over 74.6% FT (80.4) on career-high volume (career-best .321 FTr to date, beating previous best of .242) while shooting 81% in the RA in order to reach that. He's been a career 72.8% shooter there prior to this season.

I don't disagree with you, but referencing specific stats at this moment probably isn't The Way. He's definitely not crappy.

He's inconsistent, and he's s***-useless at actually staying on the court, but when he's healthy, he's a talented guy.

I mean you can say this about Scottie. After last season people were doubting whether he could even be a second or THIRD option, now that he's playing well in a small sample size with a better roster we're ready to anoint him as a franchise player again lol.

Health risk aside, I'd place Jalen Johnson around the same tier as Scottie and I would actually say he has a bit more upside to reach another level.

Scottie has always been good. He wasn't forcing it inside last year as much as he is now. He was refining his shot and getting reps in while we tanked. Why would he put his body on the line in meaningless games?

The defense and transition offense is worth the contract even if he can't do anything else.

I am absolutely sure that if you swap him with Mobley or Johnson his offensive numbers would look better and we wouldn't be as good as we are.

[tsherkin]

Scottie has always been good.

At some things, yes.

Last year, he was basically the worst volume scorer in the league, and it was a consequential issue for us. Didn't take away from his D or his rebounding, nor his passing, but it was still an issue. Of course, even then, many of us were talking ABOUT that deployment, and what we should be doing as soon as able to try and support him in being a positive force on the offensive end.

He wasn't forcing it inside last year as much as he is now. He was refining his shot and getting reps in while we tanked. Why would he put his body on the line in meaningless games?

This isn't really what's changed. What's happening now is that he's getting a lot more passing support with better spacing and we have someone else to go to when we need to create in the halfcourt. Those are all much, much more important issues than "we were losing last year so he didn't want to try, and he was just practicing his J."

Like, there are meaningful changes in his distribution of possessions and passing support compared to last year which matter a LOT, given his specific set of skills.

Scottie's always had value and potential. The difference between this year and last year is that, so far, we are setting him up to succeed instead of letting him drown in a role which he had no business filling.

[bluerap23]

Not sure you want to ride on 11 games from a guy who hasn't managed more than 59% TS in a season to date after 4 previous years. Especially when it's taking him shooting over 74.6% FT (80.4) on career-high volume (career-best .321 FTr to date, beating previous best of .242) while shooting 81% in the RA in order to reach that. He's been a career 72.8% shooter there prior to this season.

I don't disagree with you, but referencing specific stats at this moment probably isn't The Way. He's definitely not crappy.

He's inconsistent, and he's s***-useless at actually staying on the court, but when he's healthy, he's a talented guy.

I mean you can say this about Scottie. After last season people were doubting whether he could even be a second or THIRD option, now that he's playing well in a small sample size with a better roster we're ready to anoint him as a franchise player again lol.

Health risk aside, I'd place Jalen Johnson around the same tier as Scottie and I would actually say he has a bit more upside to reach another level.

Yeah like I’m confused lol. Scottie hasn’t put together an all star season once yet for the entirety of a 82 game season. He’s not some ideal model of consistency either.

They’re in the same tier as a player despite JJ making less money than IQ until 2030. I think Atlanta is quite happy with Jalen Johnson lol.

I’m looking forward to them battling each other for the next several years.

What does that even mean? It is totally subjective. Fact is he has been an all-star (JJ has not). And Scottie has been superior in every category outside of shooting percentages. He has also been more healthy. That said I would be thrilled if I drafted JJ with the 20th pick. That is incredible value.

[Thaddy]

Scottie has always been good.

At some things, yes.

Last year, he was basically the worst volume scorer in the league, and it was a consequential issue for us. Didn't take away from his D or his rebounding, nor his passing, but it was still an issue. Of course, even then, many of us were talking ABOUT that deployment, and what we should be doing as soon as able to try and support him in being a positive force on the offensive end.

He wasn't forcing it inside last year as much as he is now. He was refining his shot and getting reps in while we tanked. Why would he put his body on the line in meaningless games?

This isn't really what's changed. What's happening now is that he's getting a lot more passing support with better spacing and we have someone else to go to when we need to create in the halfcourt. Those are all much, much more important issues than "we were losing last year so he didn't want to try, and he was just practicing his J."

Like, there are meaningful changes in his distribution of possessions and passing support compared to last year which matter a LOT, given his specific set of skills.

Scottie's always had value and potential. The difference between this year and last year is that, so far, we are setting him up to succeed instead of letting him drown in a role which he had no business filling.

With the same limited spacing and being the focal point of the offense, do you think Mobley or Johnson would be better?

[DreamTeam09]

It was the same draft

mabad, so 1 went top 5 and the other went 20th, S/o to JJ but if all things are equal, I'll take the better defender everytime

I prefer a guy who can carry the team offensively....

until said player meets a defender better than his offensive capabilities

[tsherkin]

With the same limited spacing and being the focal point of the offense, do you think Mobley or Johnson would be better?

No, though it isn't really relevant to anything I've said in this thread I have laboriously repeated a series of different remarks about how Scottie was poorly deployed, so it should be well-established that I am aware of how that impacted his game.

We've known since before he was drafted who he was as a player. He continues to show this. It isn't a problem when we are using him correctly, I agree. He's a versatile player with a lot to contribute. He just isn't the guy you go to for generating unassisted offense in the halfcourt. That's fine, that's neither news nor a major issue at the moment.

Scottie's a good player. We both agree with this. But use case does impact player value, and highlights ceilings on potential and so forth. That's just reality, which is where discussion centered while we were misusing him. That is also natural, especially in response to people overrating him, which was ALSO happening from some parts. It is what it is.

What we get to enjoy right now is Scottie being used as he should be, and that's good for our team.

[Yallbecrazy]

It was the same draft

mabad, so 1 went top 5 and the other went 20th, S/o to JJ but if all things are equal, I'll take the better defender everytime

I prefer a guy who can carry the team offensively....

Which guy is which? This thread makes no sense, both are considered excellent defenders who can contribute offensively. Jalen is the better on ball defender and Scottie the better help defender, but both are great.

[junot111]

I mean you can say this about Scottie. After last season people were doubting whether he could even be a second or THIRD option, now that he's playing well in a small sample size with a better roster we're ready to anoint him as a franchise player again lol.

I am certainly not calling him a franchise player, though obviously there are those who are overreacting as such, yes.

Health risk aside, I'd place Jalen Johnson around the same tier as Scottie and I would actually say he has a bit more upside to reach another level.

I don't know that I'd say he has more upside for another level, but I was pointing out that the small sample size radically overstates his utility from an efficiency standpoint. That is very likely to cool down. Subsequent discussion addressed and complimented his core strengths. Not really sure what you wrote has to do with the post of mine you quoted, to be honest.

Yeah like I’m confused lol. Scottie hasn’t put together an all star season once yet for the entirety of a 82 game season. He’s not some ideal model of consistency either.

They’re in the same tier as a player despite JJ making less money than IQ until 2030. I think Atlanta is quite happy with Jalen Johnson lol.

I’m looking forward to them battling each other for the next several years.

Scottie is in an excellent situation now and is being deployed as he should be, in an environment which suits his skill set far more than the past couple of seasons. And it's grea tto see, no doubt. He does also have his own issues of consistency and various weaknesses, for sure though.

My reply was a general response to the thread, with your statement as a reference point

[PushDaRock]

Jalen would have went higher if it wasn't for coach K saying he was soft and had a bad attitude.

He definitely proved that old fart wrong.

Well, I mean he literally quit the team to prepare himself for the draft. I don't think any coach is going to have glowing things to say about anyone that does that.

[anotherhomer]

With the same limited spacing and being the focal point of the offense, do you think Mobley or Johnson would be better?

No, though it isn't really relevant to anything I've said in this thread I have laboriously repeated a series of different remarks about how Scottie was poorly deployed, so it should be well-established that I am aware of how that impacted his game.

We've known since before he was drafted who he was as a player. He continues to show this. It isn't a problem when we are using him correctly, I agree. He's a versatile player with a lot to contribute. He just isn't the guy you go to for generating unassisted offense in the halfcourt. That's fine, that's neither news nor a major issue at the moment.

Scottie's a good player. We both agree with this. But use case does impact player value, and highlights ceilings on potential and so forth. That's just reality, which is where discussion centered while we were misusing him. That is also natural, especially in response to people overrating him, which was ALSO happening from some parts. It is what it is.

What we get to enjoy right now is Scottie being used as he should be, and that's good for our team.

Mobley won DPOY....you can't really dismiss that, and he's shown more to his game....Raps did want Mobley more

[MoneyBall]

Hoping Jalen's play and Hawks success means that Trea Young will be made available. I know he's a defensive liability, but having him next to Barnes and Poeltl would be a dream on offense.

[tsherkin]

Mobley won DPOY....you can't really dismiss that, and he's shown more to his game....Raps did want Mobley more

Again, unsure what this has to do with my line of conversation. Mobley, fitted inside the role which suits his skills, has been fantastic, no question. But if you asked him to be a focal scorer, he'd look awful, which was the point of the comment to which I was responding, and is quite accurate.

Mobley was great, and he would have been awesome for us, sure. But that wasn't really the point of his mention.

My reply was a general response to the thread, with your statement as a reference point

Hmm. Seems a waste; I thought you were responding to my point in particular. Otherwise, why not simply reply to the thread without any quote? That's the point of the whole quote system.

[YogurtProducer]

Not sure you want to ride on 11 games from a guy who hasn't managed more than 59% TS in a season to date after 4 previous years. Especially when it's taking him shooting over 74.6% FT (80.4) on career-high volume (career-best .321 FTr to date, beating previous best of .242) while shooting 81% in the RA in order to reach that. He's been a career 72.8% shooter there prior to this season.

I don't disagree with you, but referencing specific stats at this moment probably isn't The Way. He's definitely not crappy.

He's inconsistent, and he's s***-useless at actually staying on the court, but when he's healthy, he's a talented guy.

I mean you can say this about Scottie. After last season people were doubting whether he could even be a second or THIRD option, now that he's playing well in a small sample size with a better roster we're ready to anoint him as a franchise player again lol.

Health risk aside, I'd place Jalen Johnson around the same tier as Scottie and I would actually say he has a bit more upside to reach another level.

Scottie has always been good. He wasn't forcing it inside last year as much as he is now. He was refining his shot and getting reps in while we tanked. Why would he put his body on the line in meaningless games?

The defense and transition offense is worth the contract even if he can't do anything else.

I am absolutely sure that if you swap him with Mobley or Johnson his offensive numbers would look better and we wouldn't be as good as we are.

You are aware Scottie is technically putting up almost thr same stats as last year? He hasn’t made a HUGE statistical jump, and his efficiency increase is fueled a lot by his unsustainable 3 point %?

I don’t know why we’re saying “11 games..” for JJ fueled by some SSS but not recognizing the exact same is true of Scottie.

[tsherkin]

You are aware Scottie is technically putting up almost thr same stats as last year? He hasn’t made a HUGE statistical jump, and his efficiency increase is fueled a lot by his unsustainable 3 point %?

I don’t know why we’re saying “11 games..” for JJ fueled by some SSS but not recognizing the exact same is true of Scottie.

Yes, Scottie is riding hard on his 3P% at the moment and it's very small sample size, unquestionably. But his 2FG% is back to where it was in 2024 and we're going to see positive regression in his short game as well. He's also setting a slight career-high in FT% while the refs screw him into the lowest FTr of his career to date, despite the HIGHEST proportion of shots he's taken to date in the RA (by a small margin).

So there are a couple of things which will match off as the 3P% declines, and we're seeing by far the most assisted 2s of his career, and more corner 3s from him than we've seen in 3 years.

So there are some bright points to consider as well

[YogurtProducer]

You are aware Scottie is technically putting up almost thr same stats as last year? He hasn’t made a HUGE statistical jump, and his efficiency increase is fueled a lot by his unsustainable 3 point %?

I don’t know why we’re saying “11 games..” for JJ fueled by some SSS but not recognizing the exact same is true of Scottie.

Yes, Scottie is riding hard on his 3P% at the moment and it's very small sample size, unquestionably. But his 2FG% is back to where it was in 2024 and we're going to see positive regression in his short game as well. He's also setting a slight career-high in FT% while the refs screw him into the lowest FTr of his career to date, despite the HIGHEST proportion of shots he's taken to date in the RA (by a small margin).

So there are a couple of things which will match off as the 3P% declines, and we're seeing by far the most assisted 2s of his career, and more corner 3s from him than we've seen in 3 years.

So there are some bright points to consider as well

Oh absolutely, but if we’re gonna do it one way and assume the worst we gotta do it the other.

And FWIW - he’s averaging 0.2% more shots at the rim than his previous career high, but his 3–10 foot range is waaaaay down. Other than last year, he’s taking more shots from outside 10 feet than ever before. Which could explain the lower FTr

The concerning part to me is he’s currently shooting 43% from 3 and “only” at a 59TS%. Even if FTR comes back to his career averages (probably closer to “when” than “if”), he’s not gonna be an above average efficiency guy again, which is frustrating somewhat.

Like realistically, he seems destined to go back to a 55-57TS% guy.

[tsherkin]

Oh absolutely, but if we’re gonna do it one way and assume the worst we gotta do it the other.

Yes, I'm not an advocate for overhyping or savagely undercutting what he's doing.

And FWIW - he’s averaging 0.2% more shots at the rim than his previous career high, but his 3–10 foot range is waaaaay down. Other than last year, he’s taking more shots from outside 10 feet than ever before. Which could explain the lower FTr.

The proportion of shots at the rim is only a little higher, but he's getting there and not getting calls, and he's still getting 23.4% of his shots from 3-10 as well. That's 51.1% of his shots inside 10 feet. He was at 47.9% of his shots inside 10 feet last year and still got a career-high .284 FTr.

So his shot distribution right now isn't the issue.

The concerning part to me is he’s currently shooting 43% from 3 and “only” at a 59TS%. Even if FTR comes back to his career averages (probably closer to “when” than “if”), he’s not gonna be an above average efficiency guy again, which is frustrating somewhat.

Like realistically, he seems destined to go back to a 55-57TS% guy.

I think it's expected that he's not going to be an ABOVE-average efficiency guy.

But if his 2FG% rises and his FTr rises, then he should be sitting around league average, and that's enough for him as an 18 ppg scorer. It's around the general profile for a second-option type scorer. If he was a lot better than that, then he'd be a very different type of prospect, but for a guy who didn't project as ANY kind of scorer pre-draft, that's pretty good value at a volume that isn't at all unreasonable.

[Appostis]

With the same limited spacing and being the focal point of the offense, do you think Mobley or Johnson would be better?

No, though it isn't really relevant to anything I've said in this thread I have laboriously repeated a series of different remarks about how Scottie was poorly deployed, so it should be well-established that I am aware of how that impacted his game.

We've known since before he was drafted who he was as a player. He continues to show this. It isn't a problem when we are using him correctly, I agree. He's a versatile player with a lot to contribute. He just isn't the guy you go to for generating unassisted offense in the halfcourt. That's fine, that's neither news nor a major issue at the moment.

Scottie's a good player. We both agree with this. But use case does impact player value, and highlights ceilings on potential and so forth. That's just reality, which is where discussion centered while we were misusing him. That is also natural, especially in response to people overrating him, which was ALSO happening from some parts. It is what it is.

What we get to enjoy right now is Scottie being used as he should be, and that's good for our team.

Mobley won DPOY....you can't really dismiss that, and he's shown more to his game....Raps did want Mobley more

His defense was propped up by Allen.

Guy is so incredibly overrated on that end it's not even funny. He's a good defender but at this point he should never of been in consideration for DPOY..

I'm happy he got it due to the contract screwing the Cavs but it wasn't a good choice.

[Tripod]

Why do some people only want to exist in negativity?

Barnes comes off a huge game and is having a great season and instead of talking about that, they make a thread to tear him down. It's so bizarre to me.

Why can't people just say that Barnes is having a great year and has taken a step forward after a poor pre-season. And JJ is having a good year and stepping up with Trae out.

So bizarre to me.

[HumbleRen]

Why do some people only want to exist in negativity?

Barnes comes off a huge game and is having a great season and instead of talking about that, they make a thread to tear him down. It's so bizarre to me.

Why can't people just say that Barnes is having a great year and has taken a step forward after a poor pre-season. And JJ is having a good year and stepping up with Trae out.

So bizarre to me.

It’s a discussion board, it’s bound to happen lol.

Your post also invites even more discussion. Your post says Scottie is having a great year but JJ is only having a good year despite JJ averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals and is significantly more efficient than him with his TS%.

The best way to not feed a thread is to not reply in it.

Jokes aside, yeah, they’ve both been great.

[Thaddy]

Why do some people only want to exist in negativity?

Barnes comes off a huge game and is having a great season and instead of talking about that, they make a thread to tear him down. It's so bizarre to me.

Why can't people just say that Barnes is having a great year and has taken a step forward after a poor pre-season. And JJ is having a good year and stepping up with Trae out.

So bizarre to me.

It’s a discussion board, it’s bound to happen lol.

Your post also invites even more discussion. Your post says Scottie is having a great year but JJ is only having a good year despite JJ averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals and is significantly more efficient than him with his TS%.

The best way to not feed a thread is to not reply in it.

Jokes aside, yeah, they’ve both been great.

The shots against Barnes aren't fair.

JJ had a huge game against a Jazz team with no rim protection. Barnes will probably crush them just as hard if not better. Weak rim protection along with Okongwu having a monster game from the 3. It opens up easy drives, transition offense, less turnovers, and if the defense is okay you probably dominate the possession battle. I don't gamble but I did I would say a team like Toronto will wreck the Jazz in a way where you'll feel bad for them.

Barnes did this against Mobley and Allen. I really doubted that would happen but it seems like he's adjusting to playing against size. Barnes is improving, i believe in his catch and shoot ability. The people behind his training are smart. Build his mid range ability and catch and shoot for now. Then get him into off the dribble 3s and bringing him downhill. I think he'll have his best years when he's 26-28 years old.