Trae Young is Ridiculously Underrated

[Dubious Handles]

Trae is a great talent on offense but this version of the Hawks without him are really enjoyable to watch.

[Ball4life32]

The team is 7-3 in their last 10 games and have won 4 straight.

This happens every year that the Hawks play better and win more when Trae Young is out. Fact!

Yet Hawks fans swear by Trae Young. It's like beating a dead horse.

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

[HMFFL]

Trae is a boarderline all-star that has made the team most of the time due to another player being injured. When Atlanta hosted the event I think Trae was snubbed.

He shoots 40% and is a turnover machine (355 of them last season).

I prefer a point guard that can shoot, not make errors, and that can dunk. Trae has a superstar mentality but is a boarderline star talent.

Dunking is irrelevant for a PG. But his shot is absolutely a concern, and his defense is also relevant in a less-than-ideal way, I am compelled to admit.

But he IS one of the best playmakers in the league, so until and unless a good deal comes up, it's worth it to see what he can do.

If you say so.
Dunking provides an option to anyone for easier buckets.
Does it not?
I don't see how it's a discussion but make it one if you like. Odd, how you can think that having the ability is irrelevant for a point guard, or any position for that matter. It's an edge that Trae doesn't have and he's not equal to his opponents. Everything is more difficult for Trae and his numbers prove that.

As this thread has aged, you supported Trae in the past, while I have viewed him as the problem.

[HMFFL]

Trae is a great talent on offense but this version of the Hawks without him are really enjoyable to watch.

He's not great on offense.
How is 355 turnovers last season great?
Career low in 2pt %.
Shot 40% from the field.

Those are great numbers?

[ropjhk]

The team is 7-3 in their last 10 games and have won 4 straight.

This happens every year that the Hawks play better and win more when Trae Young is out. Fact!

Yet Hawks fans swear by Trae Young. It's like beating a dead horse.

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

And they are 221-267 with Trae in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=trae+young+win+loss+record+since+2018-19

[Ball4life32]

This happens every year that the Hawks play better and win more when Trae Young is out. Fact!

Yet Hawks fans swear by Trae Young. It's like beating a dead horse.

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

And they are 221-267 with Trae in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=trae+young+win+loss+record+since+2018-19

Hawks also tanked hard in his first two years as you see by the early records. 20-23 seasons hawks were much with Trae (they had better win % with him than w/o him) and no surprise those are his best seasons by the analytics. He has trended down as a scorer the last couple seasons unfortunately. His passing is still elite and trended up through.

[tsherkin]

If you say so.
Dunking provides an option to anyone for easier buckets.
Does it not?

I should rephrase, because you're getting at Trae's low finishing percentage, which is a valid criticism.

Dunking is irrelevant, so long as you can finish in other ways. His short game is actually excellent, as is his short mid-range game. But he struggles to GET to the rim and he's horrible when he gets there. I meant more in the sense that dunking isn't very important for a PG in general.

As this thread has aged, you supported Trae in the past, while I have viewed him as the problem.

Yup, though to be fair, there's a limit to how far I will carry that support. We both agree that he isn't a superstar, and we both agree that if there's a sound deal to be had, then it's worth exploring. All I'm saying at the moment is that in terms of winning, he's had 5 games with this current team, and that was when Risacher was having a slower start than what he was doing last season. Giving Trae some time to get out of an early-season slump and work with the plethora of tools he has wouldn't be a bad idea... even if it was just to help him look better in advance of shopping him.

[Celts17Pride]

The team is 7-3 in their last 10 games and have won 4 straight.

This happens every year that the Hawks play better and win more when Trae Young is out. Fact!

Yet Hawks fans swear by Trae Young. It's like beating a dead horse.

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

They were much better last year and much better this year and you know it. Trust me, I'm happy that the Hawks keep Trae Young because it means they never will be a factor.

[Celts17Pride]

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

And they are 221-267 with Trae in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=trae+young+win+loss+record+since+2018-19

Hawks also tanked hard in his first two years as you see by the early records. 20-23 seasons hawks were much with Trae (they had better win % with him than w/o him) and no surprise those are his best seasons by the analytics. He has trended down as a scorer the last couple seasons unfortunately. His passing is still elite and trended up through.

Always excuses for Trae Young. I think Hawks management has woke up.

[HMFFL]

If you say so.
Dunking provides an option to anyone for easier buckets.
Does it not?

I should rephrase, because you're getting at Trae's low finishing percentage, which is a valid criticism.

Dunking is irrelevant, so long as you can finish in other ways. His short game is actually excellent, as is his short mid-range game. But he struggles to GET to the rim and he's horrible when he gets there. I meant more in the sense that dunking isn't very important for a PG in general.

What mid range game? He stopped focusing on that. Shot a career low in 2pt % last season.

Having the ability to dunk is NEVER irrelevant even if a player can finish in other ways. Dunking is another tool to score easy points. This should be common sense.

Player looks in the mirror in grade school "God, please don't give me the ability to dunk, because I want scoring to be more difficult. I like less options"

Said nobody!

[Ball4life32]

This happens every year that the Hawks play better and win more when Trae Young is out. Fact!

Yet Hawks fans swear by Trae Young. It's like beating a dead horse.

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

They were much better last year and much better this year and you know it. Trust me, I'm happy that the Hawks keep Trae Young because it means they never will be a factor.

Assuming you meant the previous season, since he played 76 games last year — and only five this year, lol. My frustration is that the Hawks are clearly better defensively without him, yet people keep bringing up offense like that was ever the issue. Atlanta has consistently had one of the top offenses in the league. The problem has always been the defense, not the offense.

[HMFFL]

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

They were much better last year and much better this year and you know it. Trust me, I'm happy that the Hawks keep Trae Young because it means they never will be a factor.

Assuming you meant the previous season, since he played 76 games last year — and only five this year, lol. My frustration is that the Hawks are clearly better defensively without him, yet people keep bringing up offense like that was ever the issue. Atlanta has consistently had one of the top offenses in the league. The problem has always been the defense, not the offense.

The Hawks had two players last season that made over 100 three points.

Ofcourse the offense has been an issue. What are you even talking about?

[Ball4life32]

And they are 221-267 with Trae in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=trae+young+win+loss+record+since+2018-19

Hawks also tanked hard in his first two years as you see by the early records. 20-23 seasons hawks were much with Trae (they had better win % with him than w/o him) and no surprise those are his best seasons by the analytics. He has trended down as a scorer the last couple seasons unfortunately. His passing is still elite and trended up through.

Always excuses for Trae Young. I think Hawks management has woke up.

Everything I said was factual. Trae was +4 and +5bpm in those seasons. You're trying to say they were better without Trae when they made the run to ECF? I guarantee they don't make that run without him. Also its 100% possible he's not with hawks long term like I mentioned before. All tbd right now.

[Ball4life32]

Assuming you meant the previous season, since he played 76 games last year — and only five this year, lol. My frustration is that the Hawks are clearly better defensively without him, yet people keep bringing up offense like that was ever the issue. Atlanta has consistently had one of the top offenses in the league. The problem has always been the defense, not the offense.

The Hawks had two players last season that made over 100 three points.

Ofcourse the offense has been an issue. What are you even talking about?

Hawks have had top 10 offenses and bottom 5 defenses in a lot of Trae Young seasons... What are you even talking about? Keep cherry picking FG% and turnovers per season. It's a terrible argument.

[HMFFL]

Assuming you meant the previous season, since he played 76 games last year — and only five this year, lol. My frustration is that the Hawks are clearly better defensively without him, yet people keep bringing up offense like that was ever the issue. Atlanta has consistently had one of the top offenses in the league. The problem has always been the defense, not the offense.

The Hawks had two players last season that made over 100 three points.

Ofcourse the offense has been an issue. What are you even talking about?

Hawks have had top 10 offenses and bottom 5 defenses in a lot of Trae Young seasons... What are you even talking about? Keep cherry picking FG% and turnovers per season. It's a terrible argument.

Two players shot 100 3-pointers on the team.

Anything I said is releveant to offense so how is it a terrible argument? Field goal % and such is no longer releveant?

What the Hawks did great at last season was scoring in the paint. Top 5

Feel free to elaborate if you want to prove a point.

[badpotato]

If Hawks fans are happy with Trae defence and his career 43.2 % FG then all the power to them - I don't belive succesful franchise can ceneter around player like that, but they also need a viable alternative to make them pivot. I think that if this current Traeless run countiniues their FO will become motivated to ship him out by the deadline.

[Ball4life32]

The Hawks had two players last season that made over 100 three points.

Ofcourse the offense has been an issue. What are you even talking about?

Hawks have had top 10 offenses and bottom 5 defenses in a lot of Trae Young seasons... What are you even talking about? Keep cherry picking FG% and turnovers per season. It's a terrible argument.

Two players shot 100 3-pointers on the team.

Anything I said is releveant to offense so how is it a terrible argument? Field goal % and such is no longer releveant?

What the Hawks did great at last season was scoring in the paint. Top 5

Feel free to elaborate if you want to prove a point.

Since the Hawks’ ECF run, the numbers pretty much spell out what the real issue has been. Defensively, they’ve ranked 26th in 2021–22, 23rd in 2022–23, 27th in 2023–24, and only improved to 19th last season.

On the other side of the ball, the offense has consistently been strong: #2 in offensive efficiency in 2021–22, #6 in 2022–23, 11th in 2023–24 (and actually #7 before Trae went down), before dipping to #18 last season.

So what looks like the bigger problem here? It’s clearly not the offense. And no, I don’t care about FG% or turnovers for an extremely high-usage player who also lead the league in assists and is also 3rd ALL TIME in Apg. That’s missing the forest for the trees...

[ropjhk]

Yet hawks are now 37-37 without Trae since he was drafted despite the uptick recently so clearly you’re wrong again claiming every year.

Hawks do have a nice young roster along with the pelicans pick so yes he may not be in Atlanta long term with how the roster looks and what happens with that pick.

And they are 221-267 with Trae in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=trae+young+win+loss+record+since+2018-19

Hawks also tanked hard in his first two years as you see by the early records. 20-23 seasons hawks were much with Trae (they had better win % with him than w/o him) and no surprise those are his best seasons by the analytics. He has trended down as a scorer the last couple seasons unfortunately. His passing is still elite and trended up through.

You're the one who brought up the career win loss record. If you're going to invalidate any meaning to the win loss record for when Trae is in the lineup then you effectively invalidate any meaning to your post about the Hawks record without him in the lineup.

[NDaATL]

Trae has led a top 10 offense 4 of the last 5 seasons so I don't mind him as a #1 option offensively. I just hope he and the team around him can stay healthy. JJ going down has hurt the hawks 2 years in a row.

Odd that you want your primary ball handler to be the #1 option when he can't shoot and we can't build a successful team around him. Since he was drafted, the roster is the issue, and not Trae Young.

I think this take is pretty extreme. The only real season we put a good roster around him he took us to the ECF. Last year we were the youngest team in the NBA and JJ went down after 35 games. Trae has never played with another all-star, that is likely to change this year since i think JJ is a lock if healthy.

It is absolutely worth looking at the team performance without him and determining if he will make the team better or worse long term. But i look at the last few games as Vit being on an absolute heater from 3, and OO making 8 threes in a game which will never happen again.

Too small a sample size to think that this team is good enough offensively without Trae to compete for anything. We've been one of the top turnover teams without him in the lineup. Luckily we've been very hot from 3 (and the defense has been good).

But, if we land a good pick in the draft or trade for another good PG somehow than I am open to moving him in the right spot. We need to see how he performs with this new squad. He generally starts every season slow so we will get a chance to see that once he returns.

[tsherkin]

What mid range game? He stopped focusing on that.

Depends on how you define "mid-range." But he took over 14% of his total shot volume (or in the neighborhood of 2.5 FGA/g) just from 10-15 feet, and that was right at about his normal career proportion. This year is his third consecutive season shooting under 11% of his total volume on long twos, perhaps that's what you meant? But he was up over 21% last year and is over 24% this year in terms of shots generated from 3-10 feet (what I'd call "short" game, but could easily be categorized as mid-range). And that's above his career averages.

So again, it depends a little on how you label things.

Shot a career low in 2pt % last season.

Yep. Long twos and finishing at the rim were pretty rough for him. 3-16 feet, though, above his career averages.

Having the ability to dunk is NEVER irrelevant even if a player can finish in other ways. Dunking is another tool to score easy points. This should be common sense.

I mean, it's an aesthetic more than anything else. Trae is a notably poor finisher at the rim, but it isn't simply because he can't dunk. It didn't stop Stockton from finishing relatively well there, for example.

Player looks in the mirror in grade school "God, please don't give me the ability to dunk, because I want scoring to be more difficult. I like less options"

Said nobody!

Sure, but that's just rhetorical play. The ability to dunk isn't the point; the ability to finish the shot is relevant. And whether it's a layup or a dunk is ultimately immaterial. Trae's problems go well beyond not dunking. He's had multiple seasons shooting 59% or better inside the RA without dunking once... which still isn't great, but it's him worsening from there while also losing his 3 which is the problem. Not that he can't dunk.