The Shareef Abdur-Rahim Award; Empty Stats/Fake Stars

[nate33]

Bradley Beal

[EmpireFalls]

Current, LaMelo Ball.

Over the last 3 seasons plus the start of this season, he’s averaging 24/6/8. You see that and you’d instantly think, “ya I’ll take that from my PG!”

But he does it very inefficiently and worst of all, he doesn’t have a game that translates to a different role.

His entire game revolves around being a ridiculously high USG player. So it’s not like you can just say, “well put him on a good team and put him as a 2nd option and he could thrive.”

Nope, he’s one of those players that is their own system and the rest of the team has to build around that.

I think LaMelo is the worst kind of “star”

This is a horrible take and borderline laughable from a longtime user and mod. You clearly do not watch him play and just watch stat sheets. He’s not a selfish heliocentric player at heart.

LaMelo takes a lot of shots when surrounded by the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That’s for sure.

However, this is much more of a function of the team situation than anything innate to him. I’d anything he has constantly talked about getting off ball, and indeed the last time the Hornets had competent talent on their team (2022), LaMelo wasn’t even their leading scorer. When Rozier was still here and playing well, Terry consistently took more shots than LaMelo as well. He’s not inherently selfish.

LaMelo can be a second option when paired with a good driver. He’s an amazing spot up shooter and connector. The real flaw of the Hornets past 3 years is that they attempted to make him James Harden when he’s not that, he’s an up tempo facilitator who can play off drivers. IMO his best games are 23 points 12 assists rather than the 35 point scoring outbursts.

I’m very disappointed that people see him this way. It speaks to not watching games or being able to analyze the root causes of basketball.

[Duke4life831]

Current, LaMelo Ball.

Over the last 3 seasons plus the start of this season, he’s averaging 24/6/8. You see that and you’d instantly think, “ya I’ll take that from my PG!”

But he does it very inefficiently and worst of all, he doesn’t have a game that translates to a different role.

His entire game revolves around being a ridiculously high USG player. So it’s not like you can just say, “well put him on a good team and put him as a 2nd option and he could thrive.”

Nope, he’s one of those players that is their own system and the rest of the team has to build around that.

I think LaMelo is the worst kind of “star”

This is a horrible take and borderline laughable from a longtime user and mod. You clearly do not watch him play and just watch stat sheets. He’s not a selfish heliocentric player at heart.

LaMelo takes a lot of shots when surrounded by the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That’s for sure.

However, this is much more of a function of the team situation than anything innate to him. I’d anything he has constantly talked about getting off ball, and indeed the last time the Hornets had competent talent on their team (2022), LaMelo wasn’t even their leading scorer. When Rozier was still here and playing well, Terry consistently took more shots than LaMelo as well. He’s not inherently selfish.

LaMelo can be a second option when paired with a good driver. He’s an amazing spot up shooter and connector. The real flaw of the Hornets past 3 years is that they attempted to make him James Harden when he’s not that, he’s an up tempo facilitator who can play off drivers. IMO his best games are 23 points 12 assists rather than the 35 point scoring outbursts.

I’m very disappointed that people see him this way. It speaks to not watching games or being able to analyze the root causes of basketball.

He has a career USG% of 30, he led the league in USG% last season. That is currently top 15 highest of all time. He’s also penciled in for top 10 every year basically for Time Per Possession. And the only time he hasn’t led his team in FGA per game was his rookie year.

I’m sorry, but all of that combined kind of feels like the definition of a very high usage guard.

And again on top of all of that, he’s never had a season where he was even league average for shooting efficiency.

I don’t think my take is all that controversial of a take

[Infinite Llamas]

If you’re going to mock a dude, at least spell his name right.

Shareef was a fine player actually. I think his game would translate much better today

[theforumblue]

weird thread. so they weren't true #1 guys. not everyone gets to play with one of those. why mock them?

[durden_tyler]

If you’re going to mock a dude, at least spell his name right.

Shareef was a fine player actually. I think his game would translate much better today

Career losers don’t need spell checks.


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[STAT_88]

He is on the same level as Pau Gasol. A solid #2 who never got to play with an MVP caliber teammate.

When he was in VAN and ATL he was just as good as Bosh or Otis Thorp.

Ok Kobe fan


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[UcanUwill]

I fully believe Donantas Sabonis is not starter caliber center, yet so many people think he is a star. He is just Boban who did got real shot at his per 36 minutes stats. I honestly never seen a player this overrated, there were peeps saying he is better than his farther rofl. At least with Lavine people admit he is not good. But I think people srart to see Sabonis for what he is, if he is starting for your team, your team wont be very good, if he is a starter, he is not a star, he is a weak link, he should be pkaying 15 minutes off the bench.

[UcanUwill]

Lanelo Ball is a great call. I think him playing or not playing does not impact Charlottes chances at all, maybe even weakens it.

[atlantabbq99]

Lanelo Ball is a great call. I think him playing or not playing does not impact Charlottes chances at all, maybe even weakens it.

I called Lamelo a future bust when he was in the draft. I still feel that way. Lamelo and Kevin Love are the defination of empty stats players. Regardless of what Lamelo's stats are, of all of the starting PGs in the NBA, he has the lowest winning percentage.

[bkkrh]

If you’re going to mock a dude, at least spell his name right.

Shareef was a fine player actually. I think his game would translate much better today

Yeah I mean the guy got drafted by an expansion team in it´s 2nd season that used their 1st year draft pick on Bryant Reeves, their 3rd year pick on Antonio Daniels and their 5th year pick for Steve Francis, who refused to play for them. The only draft pick that worked out was Mike Bibby and he needed a few seasons in the league first.

From there he gets traded to a terrible Hawks team and then to the total disfunctional Jailblazers, which had 24 different players on their roster that season. So yes, super weird that you only have one playoff appearance when the first time you are playing for a normal team is in season 10 of 12^^^.

[GrindCityHustle]

I liked Shareef as a player honestly. If he would have played for better teams early in his career I feel like he wouldn't have been on this. He probably had the worst early career scenario for a young player in Vancouver.
I started watching the NBA around this time period and he always looked like a dude that belong on a different team.

Dude had a really nice post game and could actually hit a three. I understand he probably fits into this based on history and how his career played out. I do feel like in a Pop system he would have thrived heavily.

Watch on YouTube

Weird Jeff Green is on this list too

[JinKaz69]

Some random names :

Ricky Davis
Gilbert Arenas
Steve Francis
Glenn Robinson
Stephon Marbury
Zbo before Memphis
Juwan Howard

Controversial but I would add Iverson and Westbrook.

[JinKaz69]

Tobias Harris is also a good name.

[pr0wler]

Demarcus Cousins

Good choice. Was always overrated, due to being inefficient on offense and suspect on D, while playing the most important position it is to be a strong defender at.

[tsherkin]

I liked Shareef as a player honestly. If he would have played for better teams early in his career I feel like he wouldn't have been on this. He probably had the worst early career scenario for a young player in Vancouver.
I started watching the NBA around this time period and he always looked like a dude that belong on a different team.

Dude had a really nice post game and could actually hit a three. I understand he probably fits into this based on history and how his career played out. I do feel like in a Pop system he would have thrived heavily.

Was going to say, the OP goes hard at a guy who no one ever claimed was a superstar but labored on some pretty bad teams. He was a reasonably good player, just not a superstar capable of floor-raising. And yeah, he played for the expansion Grizzlies in his prime, so what was he supposed to do?

Current, LaMelo Ball.

Over the last 3 seasons plus the start of this season, he’s averaging 24/6/8. You see that and you’d instantly think, “ya I’ll take that from my PG!”

But he does it very inefficiently and worst of all, he doesn’t have a game that translates to a different role.

His entire game revolves around being a ridiculously high USG player. So it’s not like you can just say, “well put him on a good team and put him as a 2nd option and he could thrive.”

Nope, he’s one of those players that is their own system and the rest of the team has to build around that.

I think LaMelo is the worst kind of “star”

This is a horrible take and borderline laughable from a longtime user and mod. You clearly do not watch him play and just watch stat sheets. He’s not a selfish heliocentric player at heart.

LaMelo takes a lot of shots when surrounded by the worst supporting cast in the NBA. That’s for sure.

However, this is much more of a function of the team situation than anything innate to him. I’d anything he has constantly talked about getting off ball, and indeed the last time the Hornets had competent talent on their team (2022), LaMelo wasn’t even their leading scorer. When Rozier was still here and playing well, Terry consistently took more shots than LaMelo as well. He’s not inherently selfish.

LaMelo can be a second option when paired with a good driver. He’s an amazing spot up shooter and connector. The real flaw of the Hornets past 3 years is that they attempted to make him James Harden when he’s not that, he’s an up tempo facilitator who can play off drivers. IMO his best games are 23 points 12 assists rather than the 35 point scoring outbursts.

I’m very disappointed that people see him this way. It speaks to not watching games or being able to analyze the root causes of basketball.

Hmmm.

LaMelo's largest impediments to my eyes are health and team quality. It's hard to evaluate him in terms of how he would have to play on another roster because... he hasn't really ever played on a good team. He's also played more than 51 games only the once in his career to date, so it's really hard to get any sort of bead on him.

When he's played, though, his impact has been fairly clearly evident. The last, say 70 games of his career (2024 and 2025 for him), he's been around a +3.5 O-EPM player, which would have easily had him as a top-20 guy, and I'm sure he'd look a lot better if he didn't have to bomb in hyper volume, too.

I'm not his biggest fan, but for me, that's more about not anointing him as greater than he is without cause. The talent is undeniable, the situation is brutal, so he's difficult to evaluate. I think you're right, though, Empire; I think he's much better off as a low-20s scorer who can focus on his playmaking a lot more at tempo, and would look much better in that type of role. Which, of course, would have to be supported by surrounding cast with more offensive talent.

[Lalouie]

rename it "the zach lavine award"

[doogie_hauser]

Austin Reaves (exposed as a fraud v OKC)
Ja Morant (playoff performances leave a lot to be desired)
Bam Adebayo
Joel Embiid (worst MVP ever)

[mediocrityrules]

Andre Drummond. His stats have always had zero bearing on the outcome of any game he's in. He can average 10/15 and it means nothing to the team he's playing on.

[UcanUwill]

Lanelo Ball is a great call. I think him playing or not playing does not impact Charlottes chances at all, maybe even weakens it.

I called Lamelo a future bust when he was in the draft. I still feel that way. Lamelo and Kevin Love are the defination of empty stats players. Regardless of what Lamelo's stats are, of all of the starting PGs in the NBA, he has the lowest winning percentage.

I also thought he would be total bust. granted I was wrong, but hes just not serious player. It is fascinating, because all these guys suppose to be super competitive, but Lamelo seems completely unfazed by losing, he cares to only look good in the process.