Has Shai passed Luka? If so, when? (impact as a player + all-time)

[Mavrelous]

I find it odd that we attribute luck to shooting % of PJ when OKC scheme was explicitly to sell out to take away the lob from Luka P&R with Mavs bigs, if extreme defensive coverage is being played, then outlier shooting events tend to occur.
The sell out to take away the lob was done because it was a Luka Doncic P&R, not any other guard.

It's worth pointing out that Josh Giddey was also left wide open by Dallas as a matter of scheme (to crowd Shai's driving lanes), and although Giddey shot a better percentage than PJ Washington from 3pt in the regular season, Giddey shot 3-16 (18%) in that series. Many of them wide open. I believe PJ was 23/49 (47%) 3pt in that series. Both had open shots as a matter of scheme, but PJ far outshooting Giddey was more than enough to swing the series given how close several of the games were.

Watch on YouTube

And was benched and lost his starting spot, in fact, he went from 25MPG player, to less than 12 MPG since he started getting targrted.
If a player can't punish the defensive coverage, he simply gets benched, he doesn't keep playing.

[Patches Perry]

I find it odd that we attribute luck to shooting % of PJ when OKC scheme was explicitly to sell out to take away the lob from Luka P&R with Mavs bigs, if extreme defensive coverage is being played, then outlier shooting events tend to occur.
The sell out to take away the lob was done because it was a Luka Doncic P&R, not any other guard.

It's worth pointing out that Josh Giddey was also left wide open by Dallas as a matter of scheme (to crowd Shai's driving lanes), and although Giddey shot a better percentage than PJ Washington from 3pt in the regular season, Giddey shot 3-16 (18%) in that series. Many of them wide open. I believe PJ was 23/49 (47%) 3pt in that series. Both had open shots as a matter of scheme, but PJ far outshooting Giddey was more than enough to swing the series given how close several of the games were.

Watch on YouTube

And was benched and lost his starting spot, in fact, he went from 25MPG player, to less than 12 MPG since he started getting targrted.
If a player can't punish the defensive coverage, he simply gets benched, he doesn't keep playing.

Very true, and that strengthens my point.

[FrodoBaggins]

I'm starting to wonder what Luka has actually done to get this kind of benefit of the doubt year after year. First you had the laughable ESPN list and casuals putting him ahead of Giannis, and now we're still acting like SGA hasn't firmly passed him based on peak play (Top-5 SG season ever last year by the numbers) and individual hardware?

Seriously, I'm struggling to understand where Luka's case even starts anymore. Box score rebound and assist numbers? Even the rough lineup data hasn't painted Luka as some crazy impact dude throughout his career. As a historic parallel, it's basically like taking out the one feather in T-Mac's cap over Kobe ('03 season) and STILL trying to argue that McGrady was better.

These are quite understandable feelings brought on by a real phenomenon that I'm glad you recognize has historical parallels.

I think the big picture phenomenon here is cognitive dissonance brought on by identity calcification accelerated by putting your opinion out there for the world to see.

If I go all-in on a particular guy being "the next big thing" and THEN he completely blows consensus expectations out of the water soon after, there's a good chance that the future success of that player is something now directly tied to my ego, and if I can't deal with the potential ego death of admitting I went too far previously, I begin to distort reality to make what I previously said remain "right" in my head as it becomes more and more clearly wrong to anyone not caught in the same cult of thought I am.

I don't know what the future will bring with Luka's career, but what I can say is that if Luka never reaches that MVP/Finals MVP tier, we'll have a dwindling minority of folks who hold on as if their life depends on it, because their identity is so tied to what they once predicted would come to pass. There's nothing utterly unique about Luka causing this to happen, but his huge start to his NBA career certainly contributed to it.

This is a great point and something I'm definitely keeping in mind re: Cooper Flagg. I've staked a lot of chips on him and hope to stay honest and objective with how it all turns out.

Screw it. I'm all in. I think he'll be the best American player since Curry. Better than CP3, KD, and Harden. And his game will resemble a less explosive but smoother & more agile, 20-pound lighter version of LBJ, but with better shooting and defense. A 240-pound SF/PF point forward All-Pro defender with 85%+ FT, 37-40%+ 3PT, 45% mid-range level shooting. 25+ ppg, 7+ rpg, 6+ apg, 1.5+ spg, 1.5+ bpg.

[CobraCommander]

you can't say Luka is universally loved by his teammates and coaches...we got guys like Rick C and KP and even Din and Brunson saying there were people that didnt really get along with luka...either because they felt like they didnt get the ball enough, or that he was aloof like like Kobe or that he was just mean to these guys when they were on the bench...we have seen luka curse out his whole bench... NOW WHO WANTS THE BOSS CURSING THEM OUT IN TV....luka has embarrassed teammates when they do something stupid on the court...also it's not leadership showing up out of shape year after year...come on man. LUKA IS A MERCURIAL talent but he is not a leader....yet... luka is your best player but he hasn't shown real leadership.

one thing I will tell you thats obvious this year...look at ARs numbers when luka plays or doesn't play...so I ask is it better to have luka run everything or would the lakers be better if when Luka and AR shared the offensive load more evenly? AR was avg 31...why not share more of the offensive load so they both have more energy on defense..?

Current teammates is what I was referring to with Luka. Also, using 10 game samples with Luka and AR when there's only one ball to go around. That's not all up to Luka. Also, I think that will develop as the season goes on between them. Plus LeBron coming back. That will be up to JJ to figure out more than the players. Lastly, I'm not even a big Luka fan in general. I think way too many people on here assume every time a person argues on behalf or against someone/something on here they are a fan of one thing and/or hate the other. I think Luka had the chance to open a new page by going to the Lakers and that he will also grow up as time goes by. I don't like all the complaining he does but leadership goes way beyond that. Generally speaking, guys who succeed as clear #1 players are also good leaders.

when compared to SGA, Giannnis or Jokic, Luka hasn't accomplished as much as these guys as the number 1 guy....but I get your point...

my point is this...and im not saying you are a luka fan...so im just saying objectively Luka came back and took the ball out of ARs hand and the lakers were not better.....you can't have Luka taking 23 shots, AR taking 23 shots and then Lebron taking 20 or so shots...there are not enough shots to go around so when Lebron comes back its going to have to change. but you also can't say its not Lukas choice to take less shots...luka has the ball all damn game...if he wants to take less shots he can take less shots. I dont know if the lakers would be better offensively if luka took less shots but I do know if luka took less shots and had the ball less he would have more energy to play better defense...which WOULD make the lakers better. SGA is a contributor on defense in ways luka isn't...which is another way SGA is better than Luka... they both score enough..more scoring isn't going to make one or the other better...both have led the league in scoring...

I think the current luka teammates have met a humbled - traded - embarrassed luka AND they have had to live with LeGM before meeting luka..maybe they like luka cause he is nicer than their old boss..>LeGM..lol

[CobraCommander]

if you dont think SGA is better than Luka when SGA came in at the same time and has won a MVP, FMVP, won the scoring time and a ring...has been voted as ahead of Luka on mvp voting for 4 straight years then what does SGA have to do to be considered better than Luka?


in a vacuum I dont think Luka is better than SGA and to some peoples surprise, I dont think SGA is better than Luka in a vacuum.

from a skillset perspective individually they are a wash.

the thing that I consider is that WHILE Luka gets more rebounds and assist, those assist and rebound dont equate to winning more games...especially when compared to SGAs production...so honestly... Lukas additional assist and rebounds are more like Westbrooks...in a different system you wouldn't ask Luka to get that many assist or rebounds if it doesn't make the team win more... and okc won the most games in the league for a few years while also being the youngest team, they have great chemistry MAYBE because more guys are involved in the office.

the fact is, we haven't seen a player like Luka win a championship. Harden is the closest proxy but is even more efficient and Westbrook has had similar counting stats but is less efficient....both are mvps but neither are champions...

but with me saying...for the most part all things are equal from a basketball perspective...

SGA is miles ahead of luka when it comes to tangible and intangible leadership

tangible leadership...sga is never giving the coaches, gms, Owners, refs, fans, or his teammates any reason to be upset with him...Luka has pissed off all of these people at some point..and it has been documented. example...Luka has been thrown out of a finals game and in doing so, he pissed off everyone on earth because it may have cost his team a chance to win a title.

intangible leadership
SGA shows up every game in shape and drives a culture of togetherness...which has obviously led to winning.


SGAs teammates love him and let him lead... and you can't say thats true about any other superstar in the nba at this level.

Most casual fans had never even heard of SGA until last season. Hell, most casual fans probably didn't even know OKC had an NBA team. It's the small market effect.

Luka has a flashier game and now plays for the Lakers. Shai could win mtiple titles and Luka could remain ringless, and the perception will still be that Luka is better.

but you and I know...so what say you?

[CobraCommander]

you can't say Luka is universally loved by his teammates and coaches...we got guys like Rick C and KP and even Din and Brunson saying there were people that didnt really get along with luka...either because they felt like they didnt get the ball enough, or that he was aloof like like Kobe or that he was just mean to these guys when they were on the bench...we have seen luka curse out his whole bench... NOW WHO WANTS THE BOSS CURSING THEM OUT IN TV....luka has embarrassed teammates when they do something stupid on the court...also it's not leadership showing up out of shape year after year...come on man. LUKA IS A MERCURIAL talent but he is not a leader....yet... luka is your best player but he hasn't shown real leadership.

one thing I will tell you thats obvious this year...look at ARs numbers when luka plays or doesn't play...so I ask is it better to have luka run everything or would the lakers be better if when Luka and AR shared the offensive load more evenly? AR was avg 31...why not share more of the offensive load so they both have more energy on defense..?

Current teammates is what I was referring to with Luka. Also, using 10 game samples with Luka and AR when there's only one ball to go around. That's not all up to Luka. Also, I think that will develop as the season goes on between them. Plus LeBron coming back. That will be up to JJ to figure out more than the players. Lastly, I'm not even a big Luka fan in general. I think way too many people on here assume every time a person argues on behalf or against someone/something on here they are a fan of one thing and/or hate the other. I think Luka had the chance to open a new page by going to the Lakers and that he will also grow up as time goes by. I don't like all the complaining he does but leadership goes way beyond that. Generally speaking, guys who succeed as clear #1 players are also good leaders.

I hope you're aware that CobraCommander is on a legendary smear campaign against Doncic after the OKC won. So please consider that before believing anything he says. He's straight up lying and making stuff up to prop up SGA and i don't think it's necessary to be so insecure to go to all these lengths. I don't know if it bothers him that Luka is European or what but it's ridiculous reading his posts.

There are countless articles and videos of teammates and coaches praising him of how good of a person he is. He recently even took Lakers to freaking Porsche meeting so everyone got to drives those cars on a sport track lol....

Just to give you few examples, here is what Brunson said.

“That’s my brother,” Brunson said of Dončić. “We got drafted together. I’ve been watching him grow since meeting him for the first time, seeing the player he is now. He’s gotten better and better each year to the point where he’s a top-five player, an MVP candidate, year in and year out, so whenever I get a chance to share the court with him, either with him or against him, it’s always been special. I’ve got nothing but love for him.”

Here is ShammGod talking after the trade, ex Mavs trainer.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jwB3SS4zrwk

This is Naji talking about him how he is a teammate and a friend.

Watch on YouTube

how is it a smear to say what luka isn't universally liked his teammates as SGA when KP and Rick C said that directly...and we have all seen Luka yelling at his guys like he isn't the worse defender on the court..

https://youtube.com/shorts/X8FTlOZPzB4?si=vd7rUlRWjF4yT0qW

luka is clearly a good dude...but you really think he is as good a leader as SGA? come on dude...thats kinda weird...even for you...the chairman of the Luka Fan club...

btw...all things equal I would say Kobe was a bad leader because of the way he treated Lin and Smush Parker...

[CobraCommander]

you can't say Luka is universally loved by his teammates and coaches...we got guys like Rick C and KP and even Din and Brunson saying there were people that didnt really get along with luka...either because they felt like they didnt get the ball enough, or that he was aloof like like Kobe or that he was just mean to these guys when they were on the bench...we have seen luka curse out his whole bench... NOW WHO WANTS THE BOSS CURSING THEM OUT IN TV....luka has embarrassed teammates when they do something stupid on the court...also it's not leadership showing up out of shape year after year...come on man. LUKA IS A MERCURIAL talent but he is not a leader....yet... luka is your best player but he hasn't shown real leadership.

one thing I will tell you thats obvious this year...look at ARs numbers when luka plays or doesn't play...so I ask is it better to have luka run everything or would the lakers be better if when Luka and AR shared the offensive load more evenly? AR was avg 31...why not share more of the offensive load so they both have more energy on defense..?

These are good points, and I always hesitate to make similar points because I actually think pretty highly of Luka, but in comparisons with guys of his tier, it's not out of bounds to bring them up. There is a difference in how Luka interacts with his teammates and how Shai does, and the impact it has on making their teammates better.

Luka is similar to Westbrook/Harden (or even LeBron if we want to frame it positively with a champion) in the sense that on the court, he keeps his teammates on a short leash. He doesn't need much from them (to his credit), and so those players become limited or stunted in their development. Luka just needs them to be a release valve as he orchestrates everything, so the evolution of his teammates ends up being either 3pt shooting or catching lobs. The evolution of his teammates isn't significant, but he gets full credit for any contributions they make by virtue of how involved he is in setting everything up for them.

The way Shai makes his teammates better is a bit of a slow simmer and harder to quantify. Jalen Williams has developed with hardly any limitations to his ball handling, passing, drive game, shooting, defense, etc. Unfortunately for Shai's standing in these debates, that gets weaponized against him, because Jalen Williams becomes so good at everything that his evolution is considered completely independent of Shai. It becomes "Shai has this talent next to him" without any regard for how he might have influenced the development of that talent. I feel like we're seeing similar things with Ajay Mitchell now.

I don't deny the vast disparity in talent between Shai's team now and Luka's team now, but Shai's leadership and work ethic has been a strong catalyst for the development of every Thunder player. Admittedly, it's hard to quantify how much he is helping, but he generally wants his guys to become the best version of themselves, not simply a release valve for him when defenses collapse on him.

Jalen Williams gives credit to Shai for helping him become the player he is:

Watch on YouTube

thats leadership and its real...SGA is one of the reasons why they win...its beyond the box score.

[Cavsfansince84]

when compared to SGA, Giannnis or Jokic, Luka hasn't accomplished as much as these guys as the number 1 guy....but I get your point...

my point is this...and im not saying you are a luka fan...so im just saying objectively Luka came back and took the ball out of ARs hand and the lakers were not better.....you can't have Luka taking 23 shots, AR taking 23 shots and then Lebron taking 20 or so shots...there are not enough shots to go around so when Lebron comes back its going to have to change. but you also can't say its not Lukas choice to take less shots...luka has the ball all damn game...if he wants to take less shots he can take less shots. I dont know if the lakers would be better offensively if luka took less shots but I do know if luka took less shots and had the ball less he would have more energy to play better defense...which WOULD make the lakers better. SGA is a contributor on defense in ways luka isn't...which is another way SGA is better than Luka... they both score enough..more scoring isn't going to make one or the other better...both have led the league in scoring...

I think the current luka teammates have met a humbled - traded - embarrassed luka AND they have had to live with LeGM before meeting luka..maybe they like luka cause he is nicer than their old boss..>LeGM..lol

Idk, you are trying to use very small samples where the lineup is being shuffled and all of that early in the season to make some greater point re Luka&Shai. Okc is definitely playing like a well oiled machine. So if Luka doesn't play on teams that win more then obviously this works in Shai's favor. You're sort of arguing against things I haven't said though. I haven't said Luka>Shai or that he's currently better. I said the opposite. Luka definitely could get into better shape to try and be better on defense. Player rivalries are a good thing for the league but sometimes fans are too eager to jump on one player's bandwagon though and can't appreciate that the rivalry exists to begin with.

[CobraCommander]

when compared to SGA, Giannnis or Jokic, Luka hasn't accomplished as much as these guys as the number 1 guy....but I get your point...

my point is this...and im not saying you are a luka fan...so im just saying objectively Luka came back and took the ball out of ARs hand and the lakers were not better.....you can't have Luka taking 23 shots, AR taking 23 shots and then Lebron taking 20 or so shots...there are not enough shots to go around so when Lebron comes back its going to have to change. but you also can't say its not Lukas choice to take less shots...luka has the ball all damn game...if he wants to take less shots he can take less shots. I dont know if the lakers would be better offensively if luka took less shots but I do know if luka took less shots and had the ball less he would have more energy to play better defense...which WOULD make the lakers better. SGA is a contributor on defense in ways luka isn't...which is another way SGA is better than Luka... they both score enough..more scoring isn't going to make one or the other better...both have led the league in scoring...

I think the current luka teammates have met a humbled - traded - embarrassed luka AND they have had to live with LeGM before meeting luka..maybe they like luka cause he is nicer than their old boss..>LeGM..lol

Idk, you are trying to use very small samples where the lineup is being shuffled and all of that early in the season to make some greater point re Luka&Shai. Okc is definitely playing like a well oiled machine. So if Luka doesn't play on teams that win more then obviously this works in Shai's favor. You're sort of arguing against things I haven't said though. I haven't said Luka>Shai or that he's currently better. I said the opposite. Luka definitely could get into better shape to try and be better on defense. Player rivalries are a good thing for the league but sometimes fans are too eager to jump on one player's bandwagon though and can't appreciate that the rivalry exists to begin with.

This is all good for the nba -

We have a bunch of great players that are all good guys…

No BS this is a golden age for NBA. The best 6 guys from jokic, luka, tatum, wemby, Giannis and SGA are all good guys. You can’t hate any of them for anything off the court… they all play hard and care and none of them come across as bad guys… it’s all preference.

I would take each of the guys I named as the leader of my team over KD, Harden, Ja, Draymond, Zion, Antman or any host of other nba super stars because if Luka is the most toxic his toxicity is nonexistent compared to most
Of the superstars of his level from the group of superstars that ran the league before Giannis first mvp…
Imo anyway

[Ritzo]

Of course, Luka gave up 40 points per game on the defensive end.

[Archx]

Current teammates is what I was referring to with Luka. Also, using 10 game samples with Luka and AR when there's only one ball to go around. That's not all up to Luka. Also, I think that will develop as the season goes on between them. Plus LeBron coming back. That will be up to JJ to figure out more than the players. Lastly, I'm not even a big Luka fan in general. I think way too many people on here assume every time a person argues on behalf or against someone/something on here they are a fan of one thing and/or hate the other. I think Luka had the chance to open a new page by going to the Lakers and that he will also grow up as time goes by. I don't like all the complaining he does but leadership goes way beyond that. Generally speaking, guys who succeed as clear #1 players are also good leaders.

I hope you're aware that CobraCommander is on a legendary smear campaign against Doncic after the OKC won. So please consider that before believing anything he says. He's straight up lying and making stuff up to prop up SGA and i don't think it's necessary to be so insecure to go to all these lengths. I don't know if it bothers him that Luka is European or what but it's ridiculous reading his posts.

There are countless articles and videos of teammates and coaches praising him of how good of a person he is. He recently even took Lakers to freaking Porsche meeting so everyone got to drives those cars on a sport track lol....

Just to give you few examples, here is what Brunson said.

“That’s my brother,” Brunson said of Dončić. “We got drafted together. I’ve been watching him grow since meeting him for the first time, seeing the player he is now. He’s gotten better and better each year to the point where he’s a top-five player, an MVP candidate, year in and year out, so whenever I get a chance to share the court with him, either with him or against him, it’s always been special. I’ve got nothing but love for him.”

Here is ShammGod talking after the trade, ex Mavs trainer.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jwB3SS4zrwk

This is Naji talking about him how he is a teammate and a friend.

Watch on YouTube

how is it a smear to say what luka isn't universally liked his teammates as SGA when KP and Rick C said that directly...and we have all seen Luka yelling at his guys like he isn't the worse defender on the court..

https://youtube.com/shorts/X8FTlOZPzB4?si=vd7rUlRWjF4yT0qW

luka is clearly a good dude...but you really think he is as good a leader as SGA? come on dude...thats kinda weird...even for you...the chairman of the Luka Fan club...

btw...all things equal I would say Kobe was a bad leader because of the way he treated Lin and Smush Parker...

Well i guess you're the chairman of the SGA club then and a cunning politician because your way of lying and making up facts just to prop up SGA is absolutely next level. It's quite incredible how you went from a respectable poster to this childish behaviour in such a short time, respect dude.

[Archx]

Of course, Luka gave up 40 points per game on the defensive end.

You mean this? It's an absolute ridiculous statistic that ESPN dug out from nowhere. Mavs actually played the best defense out of any team against the Celtics.

Read on Twitter

[Mirotic12]

No, he hasn't.

[og15]

if you dont think SGA is better than Luka when SGA came in at the same time and has won a MVP, FMVP, won the scoring time and a ring...has been voted as ahead of Luka on mvp voting for 4 straight years then what does SGA have to do to be considered better than Luka?


in a vacuum I dont think Luka is better than SGA and to some peoples surprise, I dont think SGA is better than Luka in a vacuum.

from a skillset perspective individually they are a wash.

the thing that I consider is that WHILE Luka gets more rebounds and assist, those assist and rebound dont equate to winning more games...especially when compared to SGAs production...so honestly... Lukas additional assist and rebounds are more like Westbrooks...in a different system you wouldn't ask Luka to get that many assist or rebounds if it doesn't make the team win more... and okc won the most games in the league for a few years while also being the youngest team, they have great chemistry MAYBE because more guys are involved in the office.

the fact is, we haven't seen a player like Luka win a championship. Harden is the closest proxy but is even more efficient and Westbrook has had similar counting stats but is less efficient....both are mvps but neither are champions...

but with me saying...for the most part all things are equal from a basketball perspective...

SGA is miles ahead of luka when it comes to tangible and intangible leadership

tangible leadership...sga is never giving the coaches, gms, Owners, refs, fans, or his teammates any reason to be upset with him...Luka has pissed off all of these people at some point..and it has been documented. example...Luka has been thrown out of a finals game and in doing so, he pissed off everyone on earth because it may have cost his team a chance to win a title.

intangible leadership
SGA shows up every game in shape and drives a culture of togetherness...which has obviously led to winning.


SGAs teammates love him and let him lead... and you can't say thats true about any other superstar in the nba at this level.

Most casual fans had never even heard of SGA until last season. Hell, most casual fans probably didn't even know OKC had an NBA team. It's the small market effect.

Luka has a flashier game and now plays for the Lakers. Shai could win mtiple titles and Luka could remain ringless, and the perception will still be that Luka is better.

What are you defining as "casual fan" here where most don't know about OKC or SGA?

I can cite my 70 year old parents and my in laws in their 60's who are as casual as can be, and all of them know about OKC and 100% know about SGA. So what level of casual fan are you talking about, the girl that goes to a game on a date with her boyfriend because he likes basketball and she has never watched a game? Does that even qualify as any sort of fan?

[Mirotic12]

I'm starting to wonder what Luka has actually done to get this kind of benefit of the doubt year after year. First you had the laughable ESPN list and casuals putting him ahead of Giannis, and now we're still acting like SGA hasn't firmly passed him based on peak play (Top-5 SG season ever last year by the numbers) and individual hardware?

Seriously, I'm struggling to understand where Luka's case even starts anymore. Box score rebound and assist numbers? Even the rough lineup data hasn't painted Luka as some crazy impact dude throughout his career. As a historic parallel, it's basically like taking out the one feather in T-Mac's cap over Kobe ('03 season) and STILL trying to argue that McGrady was better.

Benefit of the doubt year after year seems like a strange way to compare these two imo. Luka before last year had done way more to get that benefit of the doubt over Shai. He was the one who won Euroleague at 18, was all nba 1st team at 20 and led Dallas from near the bottom to the playoffs by year 2. Also, tbh I'm very high on both guys so to me this isn't arguing one over the other so much as it is just giving my view on what's I've seen over the last 8 years or w/e it is. Shai otoh had to develop a lot more and even in his early prime years was leading Okc teams that were still near the bottom of the league. Which isn't entirely his fault either but at this point if its about 2 year peaks its Shai in a huge way but in terms of career its still pretty close imo. Luka does have 5 all nba 1st teams and a strong finals run under his belt. Both have won 5 playoff series. The mvp/fmvp achievement definitely carries a big weight in a guy's legacy though but the thing is that they're still so young. If Shai gets another ring this year then there's a big gap between them but at the same time if Luka won a ring then it flips back to him.

He was actually age 19 and 21.

[Cavsfansince84]

He was actually age 19 and 21.

He turned 21 towards the end of that season. It's considered his age 20 season.

[Ritzo]

Of course, Luka gave up 40 points per game on the defensive end.

You mean this? It's an absolute ridiculous statistic that ESPN dug out from nowhere. Mavs actually played the best defense out of any team against the Celtics.

Read on Twitter

That stat is made up by fan

[Doctor MJ]

I'm starting to wonder what Luka has actually done to get this kind of benefit of the doubt year after year. First you had the laughable ESPN list and casuals putting him ahead of Giannis, and now we're still acting like SGA hasn't firmly passed him based on peak play (Top-5 SG season ever last year by the numbers) and individual hardware?

Seriously, I'm struggling to understand where Luka's case even starts anymore. Box score rebound and assist numbers? Even the rough lineup data hasn't painted Luka as some crazy impact dude throughout his career. As a historic parallel, it's basically like taking out the one feather in T-Mac's cap over Kobe ('03 season) and STILL trying to argue that McGrady was better.

These are quite understandable feelings brought on by a real phenomenon that I'm glad you recognize has historical parallels.

I think the big picture phenomenon here is cognitive dissonance brought on by identity calcification accelerated by putting your opinion out there for the world to see.

If I go all-in on a particular guy being "the next big thing" and THEN he completely blows consensus expectations out of the water soon after, there's a good chance that the future success of that player is something now directly tied to my ego, and if I can't deal with the potential ego death of admitting I went too far previously, I begin to distort reality to make what I previously said remain "right" in my head as it becomes more and more clearly wrong to anyone not caught in the same cult of thought I am.

I don't know what the future will bring with Luka's career, but what I can say is that if Luka never reaches that MVP/Finals MVP tier, we'll have a dwindling minority of folks who hold on as if their life depends on it, because their identity is so tied to what they once predicted would come to pass. There's nothing utterly unique about Luka causing this to happen, but his huge start to his NBA career certainly contributed to it.

This is a great point and something I'm definitely keeping in mind re: Cooper Flagg. I've staked a lot of chips on him and hope to stay honest and objective with how it all turns out.

Screw it. I'm all in. I think he'll be the best American player since Curry. Better than CP3, KD, and Harden. And his game will resemble a less explosive but smoother & more agile, 20-pound lighter version of LBJ, but with better shooting and defense. A 240-pound SF/PF point forward All-Pro defender with 85%+ FT, 37-40%+ 3PT, 45% mid-range level shooting. 25+ ppg, 7+ rpg, 6+ apg, 1.5+ spg, 1.5+ bpg.

Yup my friend, you're in danger of exactly what you fear. Glad you recognize it, as that's the key to being able to change our mind if things play out differently.

[Archx]

That stat is made up by fan

I can't find original tweet because it's way back but it came from a more reputable source citing second spectrum. It was 69.4% and 67.5% later in the finals.

[CobraCommander]

I hope you're aware that CobraCommander is on a legendary smear campaign against Doncic after the OKC won. So please consider that before believing anything he says. He's straight up lying and making stuff up to prop up SGA and i don't think it's necessary to be so insecure to go to all these lengths. I don't know if it bothers him that Luka is European or what but it's ridiculous reading his posts.

There are countless articles and videos of teammates and coaches praising him of how good of a person he is. He recently even took Lakers to freaking Porsche meeting so everyone got to drives those cars on a sport track lol....

Just to give you few examples, here is what Brunson said.

“That’s my brother,” Brunson said of Dončić. “We got drafted together. I’ve been watching him grow since meeting him for the first time, seeing the player he is now. He’s gotten better and better each year to the point where he’s a top-five player, an MVP candidate, year in and year out, so whenever I get a chance to share the court with him, either with him or against him, it’s always been special. I’ve got nothing but love for him.”

Here is ShammGod talking after the trade, ex Mavs trainer.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jwB3SS4zrwk

This is Naji talking about him how he is a teammate and a friend.

Watch on YouTube

how is it a smear to say what luka isn't universally liked his teammates as SGA when KP and Rick C said that directly...and we have all seen Luka yelling at his guys like he isn't the worse defender on the court..

https://youtube.com/shorts/X8FTlOZPzB4?si=vd7rUlRWjF4yT0qW

luka is clearly a good dude...but you really think he is as good a leader as SGA? come on dude...thats kinda weird...even for you...the chairman of the Luka Fan club...

btw...all things equal I would say Kobe was a bad leader because of the way he treated Lin and Smush Parker...

Well i guess you're the chairman of the SGA club then and a cunning politician because your way of lying and making up facts just to prop up SGA is absolutely next level. It's quite incredible how you went from a respectable poster to this childish behaviour in such a short time, respect dude.

lol respectable behavior?!?

Stop bro - we talking about people we don’t personally know on the internet with people we don’t know . I am intentionally never disrespecting or dismissive of anyone’s opinions. I think Luka and SGA are equal talents and SGA is a better leader which leads to more winning and a healthier work environment for the players:.. but who cares what I think?

Come on - have a good Saturday and put me on ignore if I ever annoy you - I won’t put you ignore cause honestly I like your post even if you don’t like mines