2025-26 General Thread

[BoogieTime]

Do you really watch this team pre-fox and post-fox and pretend it was fox's fault?

Its clear to anyone with eyeballs he was what made this team go.

Bro, its just a non stop argument... can't event unmute you when you respond at this point

But, now that we're here, it was Sabonis who was the multiple year outer mvp. And the team, and De'aarons game, changed with Sabonis' inclusion to the team, and the team was bad before Domas came. And as far as what's happened post trade, Fox has been injury prone and awful in San Antonio, the team doesn't have a multiple year COY coaching, the team's concept has steadily eroded, and everyone has seen better days

Fox had one, really good, supportable year, than his motor couldn't keep the fire burning moving forward (he was inefficient and took off too many games/quarters after that and less clutch). Even in that year, he just finished the games Sabonis was the hub of. If we could put Fox of 2022 on loop, we would all be having a different convo, including the longevity of the original beam, and Ja has actually had better years.

And even then, who even cares about that tit for tat? Ja is inefficient, non spacing, and a mediocre defender with a questionable motor. What is the argument against that for wanting him?

Talent can possibly supersede, and there aren't too many stars on the market, so maybe you just take the chance he becomes a better player though his trajectory is the wrong way, which I'm not totally against, but id prefer another target (but there may not be any)

You didnt answer my question. You watch this team post fox and still come to the conclusion fox was the issue?

Is there any argument we are now better off without him?

There are confounding factors, Christie v Brown and the schedule of post trade Fox both last year and this year, but I understand how a proper PG could make the situation better as opposed to what we've had. There is an argument for that, despite the dings on Morant.. I just think its a lot of money, and there are other targets and I don't think Morant's impact of late has been there... but I understand wanting to address the position

[LightTheBeam]

Bro, its just a non stop argument... can't event unmute you when you respond at this point

But, now that we're here, it was Sabonis who was the multiple year outer mvp. And the team, and De'aarons game, changed with Sabonis' inclusion to the team, and the team was bad before Domas came. And as far as what's happened post trade, Fox has been injury prone and awful in San Antonio, the team doesn't have a multiple year COY coaching, the team's concept has steadily eroded, and everyone has seen better days

Fox had one, really good, supportable year, than his motor couldn't keep the fire burning moving forward (he was inefficient and took off too many games/quarters after that and less clutch). Even in that year, he just finished the games Sabonis was the hub of. If we could put Fox of 2022 on loop, we would all be having a different convo, including the longevity of the original beam, and Ja has actually had better years.

And even then, who even cares about that tit for tat? Ja is inefficient, non spacing, and a mediocre defender with a questionable motor. What is the argument against that for wanting him?

Talent can possibly supersede, and there aren't too many stars on the market, so maybe you just take the chance he becomes a better player though his trajectory is the wrong way, which I'm not totally against, but id prefer another target (but there may not be any)

You didnt answer my question. You watch this team post fox and still come to the conclusion fox was the issue?

Is there any argument we are now better off without him?

There are confounding factors, Christie v Brown and the schedule of post trade Fox both last year and this year, but I understand how a proper PG could make the situation better as opposed to what we've had. There is an argument for that, despite the dings on Morant.. I just think its a lot of money, and there are other targets and I don't think Morant's impact of late has been there... but I understand wanting to address the position

Imo westbrook has been the teams best player this season. Forward spot needs to badly be addressed. Demar and lavine need to go.

Its one thing to give 3 1sts for morant. Its another to dump a couple bad contracts and a late 1st. Thats a risk you take for a guy who was a top 15 player not long ago.

[BoogieTime]

You didnt answer my question. You watch this team post fox and still come to the conclusion fox was the issue?

Is there any argument we are now better off without him?

There are confounding factors, Christie v Brown and the schedule of post trade Fox both last year and this year, but I understand how a proper PG could make the situation better as opposed to what we've had. There is an argument for that, despite the dings on Morant.. I just think its a lot of money, and there are other targets and I don't think Morant's impact of late has been there... but I understand wanting to address the position

Imo westbrook has been the teams best player this season. Forward spot needs to badly be addressed. Demar and lavine need to go.

Its one thing to give 3 1sts for morant. Its another to dump a couple bad contracts and a late 1st. Thats a risk you take for a guy who was a top 15 player not long ago.

I didn't read what we were offering, I assumed it would be the same package we would offer another star which was part of my hesitancy.

[OGSactownballer]

There is no universe where the current Ja is worth a true “star” type package.

Serviceable players, a pick (NOT ‘26), that is top 3/4 protected is what he will get at this point. Anyone who pays more takes some SERIOUS risk with their job very quickly because he is goi g to cost a BUNCH of money very soon.

[LightTheBeam]

There is no universe where the current Ja is worth a true “star” type package.

Serviceable players, a pick (NOT ‘26), that is top 3/4 protected is what he will get at this point. Anyone who pays more takes some SERIOUS risk with their job very quickly because he is goi g to cost a BUNCH of money very soon.

Most recent report compared his value to what Kyrie got when he went to the Mavs.

Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, a 2029 unprotected first-round pick, and 2027 and 2029 second-round picks to the Nets.

Monk - Demar - a 1st + 2 2nds

I don't think we really need a point guard. But I've said this a bunch. Vivek will not tank, knowing that we should absolutely go for a high risk/high reward target like Ja.

You make that move for Ja.
2nd Step is you trade LaVine + picks for a foward - Lauri, Zion, Siakam (should be available now).
3rd step is to find a real backup center using Schroder - Gafford, Adams, Capela, maybe Goga when Mo is healthy.

Ja/Westbrook
Keon/Carter
Keegan/Nique
Siakam/Precious
Sabonis/Backup Center

With Ja, Sabonis, Westbrook, Siakam you have enough on ball scoring. The rest of the roster needs to fit in with what these guys are doing. With Keegan, Keon, Nique you have a great start of complimentary role players.

I actually think this roster would be competing for home court in the west. It's not the perfect roster. But if you get lucky you make a Pacers style run at the championship 1 year.

Considering the alternative is watching this roster of 30 year old+ guys iso to 33 wins and an 11th seed, I'd rather we get bold and try something.

[OGSactownballer]

There is no universe where the current Ja is worth a true “star” type package.

Serviceable players, a pick (NOT ‘26), that is top 3/4 protected is what he will get at this point. Anyone who pays more takes some SERIOUS risk with their job very quickly because he is goi g to cost a BUNCH of money very soon.

Most recent report compared his value to what Kyrie got when he went to the Mavs.

Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, a 2029 unprotected first-round pick, and 2027 and 2029 second-round picks to the Nets.

Monk - Demar - a 1st + 2 2nds

I don't think we really need a point guard. But I've said this a bunch. Vivek will not tank, knowing that we should absolutely go for a high risk/high reward target like Ja.

You make that move for Ja.
2nd Step is you trade LaVine + picks for a foward - Lauri, Zion, Siakam (should be available now).
3rd step is to find a real backup center using Schroder - Gafford, Adams, Capela, maybe Goga when Mo is healthy.

Ja/Westbrook
Keon/Carter
Keegan/Nique
Siakam/Precious
Sabonis/Backup Center

With Ja, Sabonis, Westbrook, Siakam you have enough on ball scoring. The rest of the roster needs to fit in with what these guys are doing. With Keegan, Keon, Nique you have a great start of complimentary role players.

I actually think this roster would be competing for home court in the west. It's not the perfect roster. But if you get lucky you make a Pacers style run at the championship 1 year.

Considering the alternative is watching this roster of 30 year old+ guys iso to 33 wins and an 11th seed, I'd rather we get bold and try something.

I agree with them premise and all the ideas.

Only problem is that even at his best, Ja isn’t on the same level as Kyrie. That’s just fact. Ja is pretty similar to Fox and we already know where that gets us at maximum performance.

But pretty much to my point that there is no way he pulls multiple picks and youth up and comers.

[LightTheBeam]

There is no universe where the current Ja is worth a true “star” type package.

Serviceable players, a pick (NOT ‘26), that is top 3/4 protected is what he will get at this point. Anyone who pays more takes some SERIOUS risk with their job very quickly because he is goi g to cost a BUNCH of money very soon.

Most recent report compared his value to what Kyrie got when he went to the Mavs.

Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, a 2029 unprotected first-round pick, and 2027 and 2029 second-round picks to the Nets.

Monk - Demar - a 1st + 2 2nds

I don't think we really need a point guard. But I've said this a bunch. Vivek will not tank, knowing that we should absolutely go for a high risk/high reward target like Ja.

You make that move for Ja.
2nd Step is you trade LaVine + picks for a foward - Lauri, Zion, Siakam (should be available now).
3rd step is to find a real backup center using Schroder - Gafford, Adams, Capela, maybe Goga when Mo is healthy.

Ja/Westbrook
Keon/Carter
Keegan/Nique
Siakam/Precious
Sabonis/Backup Center

With Ja, Sabonis, Westbrook, Siakam you have enough on ball scoring. The rest of the roster needs to fit in with what these guys are doing. With Keegan, Keon, Nique you have a great start of complimentary role players.

I actually think this roster would be competing for home court in the west. It's not the perfect roster. But if you get lucky you make a Pacers style run at the championship 1 year.

Considering the alternative is watching this roster of 30 year old+ guys iso to 33 wins and an 11th seed, I'd rather we get bold and try something.

I agree with them premise and all the ideas.

Only problem is that even at his best, Ja isn’t on the same level as Kyrie. That’s just fact. Ja is pretty similar to Fox and we already know where that gets us at maximum performance.

But pretty much to my point that there is no way he pulls multiple picks and youth up and comers.

Ja at his peak is better than fox, but I agree they are similar. That said, the core of the team was never the issue (fox, sabonis, keegan) it was the fact they never built on that. Id only support going for ja if they followed it up with a Lauri or siakam deal. Get ja/sabonis the forward that fox never had.

Ja = fox
Keon >> huerter
Keegan = keegan
Siakam/lauri >> demar/barnes
Sabonis = sabonis
Westbrook = monk
Nique > Davis
Precious > lyles

We know those 3 won 45-48 games with a terrible cast around them. This roster could easily win 50-55

[LightTheBeam]

Dave saying true tank is incoming. Does this stem from Vivek watching this team last game? Now Vivek has seen with his own eyes this team is closer to the #1 pick than the play-in.

Maybe Schroder/Demar/Monk can be swapped at the deadline to a contender looking for a jolt

We are stuck with LaVine

The biggest question mark is Sabonis. Does anyone actually want him on that contract? Is he actually worth anything?

I'd love to move him to Memphis. Feels like a perfect fit there. Aldama, KCP, GG, and a 1st would be an amazing haul. I'm a big Aldama fan. He's basically what we hope Maxime can become.

Core of - Carter (ass but who knows?), Keon, Nique, Keegan, GG, Aldama, + a few extra 1sts.

[City of Trees]

I heard the Kings might actually start the rebuild so I wanted to get in here to say about damn time!

[OGSactownballer]

Most recent report compared his value to what Kyrie got when he went to the Mavs.

Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, a 2029 unprotected first-round pick, and 2027 and 2029 second-round picks to the Nets.

Monk - Demar - a 1st + 2 2nds

I don't think we really need a point guard. But I've said this a bunch. Vivek will not tank, knowing that we should absolutely go for a high risk/high reward target like Ja.

You make that move for Ja.
2nd Step is you trade LaVine + picks for a foward - Lauri, Zion, Siakam (should be available now).
3rd step is to find a real backup center using Schroder - Gafford, Adams, Capela, maybe Goga when Mo is healthy.

Ja/Westbrook
Keon/Carter
Keegan/Nique
Siakam/Precious
Sabonis/Backup Center

With Ja, Sabonis, Westbrook, Siakam you have enough on ball scoring. The rest of the roster needs to fit in with what these guys are doing. With Keegan, Keon, Nique you have a great start of complimentary role players.

I actually think this roster would be competing for home court in the west. It's not the perfect roster. But if you get lucky you make a Pacers style run at the championship 1 year.

Considering the alternative is watching this roster of 30 year old+ guys iso to 33 wins and an 11th seed, I'd rather we get bold and try something.

I agree with them premise and all the ideas.

Only problem is that even at his best, Ja isn’t on the same level as Kyrie. That’s just fact. Ja is pretty similar to Fox and we already know where that gets us at maximum performance.

But pretty much to my point that there is no way he pulls multiple picks and youth up and comers.

Ja at his peak is better than fox, but I agree they are similar. That said, the core of the team was never the issue (fox, sabonis, keegan) it was the fact they never built on that. Id only support going for ja if they followed it up with a Lauri or siakam deal. Get ja/sabonis the forward that fox never had.

Ja = fox
Keon >> huerter
Keegan = keegan
Siakam/lauri >> demar/barnes
Sabonis = sabonis
Westbrook = monk
Nique > Davis
Precious > lyles

We know those 3 won 45-48 games with a terrible cast around them. This roster could easily win 50-55

We can agree on Siakam although that also risks continued tread mill and a true bottom out for at least five years when he’s done because he’s not young.

But I have never understood the attraction to Lauri. Realistically you aren’t changing anything around him here and if anything might have less. So what that says is that he is overvalued and not a real difference maker. A great number three paid like a number one. Sabonis all over again. And not healthy or durable.

No thanks to anything involving him. It’s a colossal waste of assets.

[LightTheBeam]

I agree with them premise and all the ideas.

Only problem is that even at his best, Ja isn’t on the same level as Kyrie. That’s just fact. Ja is pretty similar to Fox and we already know where that gets us at maximum performance.

But pretty much to my point that there is no way he pulls multiple picks and youth up and comers.

Ja at his peak is better than fox, but I agree they are similar. That said, the core of the team was never the issue (fox, sabonis, keegan) it was the fact they never built on that. Id only support going for ja if they followed it up with a Lauri or siakam deal. Get ja/sabonis the forward that fox never had.

Ja = fox
Keon >> huerter
Keegan = keegan
Siakam/lauri >> demar/barnes
Sabonis = sabonis
Westbrook = monk
Nique > Davis
Precious > lyles

We know those 3 won 45-48 games with a terrible cast around them. This roster could easily win 50-55

We can agree on Siakam although that also risks continued tread mill and a true bottom out for at least five years when he’s done because he’s not young.

But I have never understood the attraction to Lauri. Realistically you aren’t changing anything around him here and if anything might have less. So what that says is that he is overvalued and not a real difference maker. A great number three paid like a number one. Sabonis all over again. And not healthy or durable.

No thanks to anything involving him. It’s a colossal waste of assets.

Now that the tank is truly on, I dont want any of these guys. I was only willing to do these with the thought vivek wont tank. Maybe Perry has gotten through to him?

[City of Trees]

Moving away from Sac I feel disconnected from the local vibes on what's happening behind the scenes. Will we see Sabonis and Lavine trades?

[codydaze]

Moving away from Sac I feel disconnected from the local vibes on what's happening behind the scenes. Will we see Sabonis and Lavine trades?

I think the general consensus is there's no market for Lavine. Maybe next year when he's an expiring deal but that $49 million player option for next season is a pretty big dealbreaker.

There's been starting to be a little smoke around the Sabonis trade talks though. I think theoretically there will be a market for him but I doubt it happens until closer to the deadline when the teams that would be interested in him can kind of assess where they're at and determine whether or not he pushes them to the level they wanna go.

[OGSactownballer]

If you look at the timelines of prior rebuild teams that “did it right”, you see a couple of things that under Scott Perry give me some hope.

First we have several young players (Keegan, Ellis, Nique) who are legit as at least solid staters/role players.

Second we have vets that have enough value to get some additional picks and possibly some additional young developmental talent to fill the future roster.

Third, once you clear off and/or break up the larger longer term (over two years with this year as year one) contracts (Sabonis, Monk), everything left is either young guys you’re keeping or a lot of expiring at just the point your high draft picks for ‘26 & ‘27 and your other youth need star vet or solid vet support. And you have the cap to get that support at the perfect time.

See: OKC, Detroit, Portland and several others who went this route.

[BoogieTime]

If this guy (Vivek) still refuses to tank at this point, than move the pick now at its highest value before the schedule turns weak

[kevin44]

Season is over. No way this team can recover from this start. Even healthy it was going to be tough but wiith Sabonis out this team is done. Lets hope the ping pongs balls bounce our way

Moving to general thread.

-codydaze

[City of Trees]

The Fox trade was sooo terrible

[OGSactownballer]

There isn’t any recovery here.

At this point just keep the vets healthy and let the kids play.

[City of Trees]

Ellis first to be traded?

[FarBeyondDriven]

If you look at the timelines of prior rebuild teams that “did it right”, you see a couple of things that under Scott Perry give me some hope.

First we have several young players (Keegan, Ellis, Nique) who are legit as at least solid staters/role players.

26, 26, and 24 y/o in a few months. This is not young at all. None of these guys is likely to be around by the time any of the players we rebuild with hit their prime

Second we have vets that have enough value to get some additional picks and possibly some additional young developmental talent to fill the future roster.

do we? They've been shopped for multiple seasons to no avail. Certainly nobody wants LaVine. Nobody has enticed us to part with Sabonis. Keegan's awful contract isn't very attractive. Everyone else is just a role player at best. Seriously don't see a single 1st round coming back in any trade

Third, once you clear off and/or break up the larger longer term (over two years with this year as year one) contracts (Sabonis, Monk), everything left is either young guys you’re keeping or a lot of expiring at just the point your high draft picks for ‘26 & ‘27 and your other youth need star vet or solid vet support. And you have the cap to get that support at the perfect time.

we rebuild we're starting from square one. Nobody currently on the roster is factored in due to age and contracts. We should have been tanking all along but what's done is done. This is the draft class that getting a top 3 pick would be game changing landing us arguably our most talented player ever. I doubt the NBA would allow that to happen but make them rig it blatantly by losing shamelessly. Sadly, given our vets and how many other teams are tanking we'll win too many to force the league's hand and will miss out on HoF talent. But it's still likely we get an all-star talent on the level of Fox so that's decent. We own all our future 1sts and even have two firsts in 2027 albeit a much weaker draft. We cannot trade future picks for any reason. So of course we will

See: OKC, Detroit, Portland and several others who went this route.