Is Scottie like the defensive JALEN JOHNSON?

[Tha Cynic]

This is want I want to see in the next 10 games or so on his 3 being unsustainable or not. It also has to do with how teams change their defense against him.

However, it is just hard to compare someone making near max at 38m (highest salary on a team) and someone is making 30m flat. I think it is easier to compare in another 2 years when one makes close to 45m and the other is still making 30m.

The salaries also don't matter lol. Every team was offering him the rookie max coming off a rookie of the year and AllStar selection.

Why does it matter of how the contract is given?
People only care if the contract lives up to the value.
When it comes to Barnes, there are tons of excuses (because other teams will be giving him the max, while I don't see the same argument applied to Bynes who shoot 35%+ from 3s, and regressed with the Raptors). The result matters regardless why we give him that contract. Living up to the contract is him, not us giving that contract.

Yeah and he has matched or surpassed the impact of other players in his class. So all this is moot. He’s worth what he was paid. He has clearly established himself as the best player on this team and at worst top 3 in his class and that’s being very conservative. Based on market value he is getting what he should. I’m not sure what your argument is. It doesn’t seem to be looking at the NBa market but something you made up.

[HumbleRen]

Sengun, Cade and Franz are still above him imo. Not sure he’s worth the max either yet. I want to see how he still plays when his 3 point shot leaves him.

[Thaddy]

Johnson and Deni are better than Scottie.

from a stats perspective yes
from an offensive perspective yes, deni and johnson appear to have a bigger scoring bag

in terms of overall impact, hopefully it's even

Take a look at BPM. They aren't better than Barnes. Johnson plays with a much better creator in Young. That also plays a role in what he's doing.

[HumbleRen]

Johnson and Deni are better than Scottie.

from a stats perspective yes
from an offensive perspective yes, deni and johnson appear to have a bigger scoring bag

in terms of overall impact, hopefully it's even

Take a look at BPM. They aren't better than Barnes. Johnson plays with a much better creator in Young. That also plays a role in what he's doing.

BPM isn’t the end all be all though. Scottie’s BPM last year was higher than Siakam’s last year. You can’t tell me with a straight face that Scottie was better than Siakam last year. Scottie has a higher bpm than Brunson right now.

It’s useful for context but it shouldn’t be the final say on who’s better or not.

[Thaddy]

from a stats perspective yes
from an offensive perspective yes, deni and johnson appear to have a bigger scoring bag

in terms of overall impact, hopefully it's even

Take a look at BPM. They aren't better than Barnes. Johnson plays with a much better creator in Young. That also plays a role in what he's doing.

BPM isn’t the end all be all though. Scottie’s BPM last year was higher than Siakam’s last year. You can’t tell me with a straight face that Scottie was better than Siakam last year. Scottie has a higher bpm than Brunson right now.

It’s useful for context but it shouldn’t be the final say on who’s better or not.

It catches things like hockey assists, shooting gravity, defensive attention, box outs and other important parts of the game. I would say Barnes is better for a winning team than Brunson. I doubt Brunson wins a championship. A small guard that dominates the ball isn't going to get further than an ECF appearance. We've seen that with Young too.

[ontnut]

They're both very good players who can play in multiple systems. I'd value Scottie over JJ though - if I were building a championship contender. It's marginal.

That said, JJ is one of the reasons mass (social) media had the Hawks as a breakout team. I did too, putting money on Quinn to win COTY, and JJ as MIP (alongside Giddey).

(I also tried to target JJ in my $1k fanstasy auction league because he's a beast...but alas, others felt the same way too)

Scottie...he's alright. He's the type of player I'd envision myself being - a glue guy that can do everything on both sides of the court. But he is who he is at this point. 20/8/6 with solid 2 way play. Best comp we've had in recent memory is.....Siakam.

[HumbleRen]

Take a look at BPM. They aren't better than Barnes. Johnson plays with a much better creator in Young. That also plays a role in what he's doing.

BPM isn’t the end all be all though. Scottie’s BPM last year was higher than Siakam’s last year. You can’t tell me with a straight face that Scottie was better than Siakam last year. Scottie has a higher bpm than Brunson right now.

It’s useful for context but it shouldn’t be the final say on who’s better or not.

It catches things like hockey assists, shooting gravity, defensive attention, box outs and other important parts of the game. I would say Barnes is better for a winning team than Brunson. I doubt Brunson wins a championship. A small guard that dominates the ball isn't going to get further than an ECF appearance. We've seen that with Young too.

That’s crazy man idk lol.

Are you sure you want to have that on record? Scottie is better than Brunson at winning?

[Thaddy]

BPM isn’t the end all be all though. Scottie’s BPM last year was higher than Siakam’s last year. You can’t tell me with a straight face that Scottie was better than Siakam last year. Scottie has a higher bpm than Brunson right now.

It’s useful for context but it shouldn’t be the final say on who’s better or not.

It catches things like hockey assists, shooting gravity, defensive attention, box outs and other important parts of the game. I would say Barnes is better for a winning team than Brunson. I doubt Brunson wins a championship. A small guard that dominates the ball isn't going to get further than an ECF appearance. We've seen that with Young too.

That’s crazy man idk lol.

Are you sure you want to have that on record? Scottie is better than Brunson at winning?

He's never been a decent DBPM and that matters. On-off doesn't really reflect that of a MVP candidate, feels like he wouldn't be considered for that if he was in a small market. I would put myself on record saying he'll never win a championship based on that.

[Tha Cynic]

It catches things like hockey assists, shooting gravity, defensive attention, box outs and other important parts of the game. I would say Barnes is better for a winning team than Brunson. I doubt Brunson wins a championship. A small guard that dominates the ball isn't going to get further than an ECF appearance. We've seen that with Young too.

That’s crazy man idk lol.

Are you sure you want to have that on record? Scottie is better than Brunson at winning?

He's never been a decent DBPM and that matters. On-off doesn't really reflect that of a MVP candidate, feels like he wouldn't be considered for that if he was in a small market. I would put myself on record saying he'll never win a championship based on that.

Brunson wouldn’t be able to win without defensive guys around him like how Barnes wouldn’t be able to win without offensive guys around him. The thing with Barnes is he does everything else right and makes all the winning plays that you need to win games better than pretty much everyone else on the court most night, but isn’t a goto scorer.

Curry isn’t winning a championship without Draymond Green for example as that dude does everything else on the team (since people like to make that comparison). Now of course in this case Curry is an all time great so his offense and gravity far exceeds anything else and is a much higher impact.

With Barnes and his peers no player from that draft is that much better on offense to pull away from the group. But the offensive guys will always get the higher recognition because it’s sexier. One day the balance will happen in sports but the world isn’t ready for it yet lol. We have a team sport and anoint one guy on each team as the saviour. The most obvious time this happened with this was when the Raptors got Leonard. He was given all the accolades when the team was built strong enough to probably win with any star scorer.

[Raps in 4]

Brunson is way more valuable than Scottie. It's not even up for discussion.

[mdenny]

Sengun, Cade and Franz are still above him imo. Not sure he’s worth the max either yet. I want to see how he still plays when his 3 point shot leaves him.

Thing is....whether or not he is worth slightly less than the max.....it would've been completely unreasonable for the raps to offer him anything less. I mean...the consequences of doing that (in terms of player relations and Public image) would have been catastrophic. He was always going to get the max. That was the norm during that time.....even tho the apron stuff looks like it's starting to change that now.

So i get the discussions about whether he is worth the max. But that's distinct from suggesting the raptors should have offered less....which is ludicrous.

[lobosloboslobos]

Scottie (1.5 stl/1.8 blk) is 2nd in the league in stocks behind Wemby

[HumbleRen]

That’s crazy man idk lol.

Are you sure you want to have that on record? Scottie is better than Brunson at winning?

He's never been a decent DBPM and that matters. On-off doesn't really reflect that of a MVP candidate, feels like he wouldn't be considered for that if he was in a small market. I would put myself on record saying he'll never win a championship based on that.

Brunson wouldn’t be able to win without defensive guys around him like how Barnes wouldn’t be able to win without offensive guys around him. The thing with Barnes is he does everything else right and makes all the winning plays that you need to win games better than pretty much everyone else on the court most night, but isn’t a goto scorer.

Curry isn’t winning a championship without Draymond Green for example as that dude does everything else on the team (since people like to make that comparison). Now of course in this case Curry is an all time great so his offense and gravity far exceeds anything else and is a much higher impact.

With Barnes and his peers no player from that draft is that much better on offense to pull away from the group. But the offensive guys will always get the higher recognition because it’s sexier. One day the balance will happen in sports but the world isn’t ready for it yet lol. We have a team sport and anoint one guy on each team as the saviour. The most obvious time this happened with this was when the Raptors got Leonard. He was given all the accolades when the team was built strong enough to probably win with any star scorer.

Completely disagree with your last point.

Theres only 1-2 players in the world at the time that would of got us past Philly.

[HumbleRen]

Brunson is way more valuable than Scottie. It's not even up for discussion.

Legit perplexed that it's even a discussion lol.

[hype_2004]

Scottie (1.5 stl/1.8 blk) is 2nd in the league in stocks behind Wemby

at these haters, Scottie has been a defensive monster this season. His length, anticipation and awareness are on full display, his defensive IQ has reached a transformative stage in his evolution. He is a complete 2 way player second only to Wemby. If he keeps this up, sustains his production and we are a top seeded playoff team this year the voters will take notice of his impact and he could be in the running for DPOY and quite possibly an MVP candidate. This is not a stretch of the imagination, he is basically Kawhi with better passing and less offense

[Tripod]

Scottie (1.5 stl/1.8 blk) is 2nd in the league in stocks behind Wemby

at these haters, Scottie has been a defensive monster this season. His length, anticipation and awareness are on full display, his defensive IQ has reached a transformative stage in his evolution. He is a complete 2 way player second only to Wemby. If he keeps this up, sustains his production and we are a top seeded playoff team this year the voters will take notice of his impact and he could be in the running for DPOY and quite possibly an MVP candidate. This is not a stretch of the imagination, he is basically Kawhi with better passing and less offense

That gap in offense is huge though. No need to throw out Kawhi’s name or MVP talk.

[Tha Cynic]

To be clear I’m not arguing that Brunson and Barnes are equal, but making a general point about Scottie Barnes and his peers from his draft lol. None of those guys from the draft are comparable to Brunson either.

Whether Brunson is a top tier legit superstar or secondary is probably still up for debate.

I should know better than to quote posts bringing up other names in a thread like this or the automatic responses will typically be - you think he’s as good as… lol

[Indeed]

The salaries also don't matter lol. Every team was offering him the rookie max coming off a rookie of the year and AllStar selection.

Why does it matter of how the contract is given?
People only care if the contract lives up to the value.
When it comes to Barnes, there are tons of excuses (because other teams will be giving him the max, while I don't see the same argument applied to Bynes who shoot 35%+ from 3s, and regressed with the Raptors). The result matters regardless why we give him that contract. Living up to the contract is him, not us giving that contract.

Yeah and he has matched or surpassed the impact of other players in his class. So all this is moot. He’s worth what he was paid. He has clearly established himself as the best player on this team and at worst top 3 in his class and that’s being very conservative. Based on market value he is getting what he should. I’m not sure what your argument is. It doesn’t seem to be looking at the NBa market but something you made up.

Sadly, totally disagree that he is worth what he is paid.
I disagree that he is the best player on our team, and compare to our previous core, he is not the best player that can compare to the player with the near max contract we paid for.

[Appostis]

Brunson is way more valuable than Scottie. It's not even up for discussion.

Yeah it is...

Do people completely underestimate the defense aspect of basketball?

[Psubs]

Scottie (1.5 stl/1.8 blk) is 2nd in the league in stocks behind Wemby

at these haters, Scottie has been a defensive monster this season. His length, anticipation and awareness are on full display, his defensive IQ has reached a transformative stage in his evolution. He is a complete 2 way player second only to Wemby. If he keeps this up, sustains his production and we are a top seeded playoff team this year the voters will take notice of his impact and he could be in the running for DPOY and quite possibly an MVP candidate. This is not a stretch of the imagination, he is basically Kawhi with better passing and less offense

He should've been a 2nd team all-defense last season. This season should be on the 1st team.