Who do you think wins MVP this season? (2025-26 NBA MVP Discussion Thread)

[zero rings]

Jokic looked very human, missed some open threes, when the Wolves defenders pressured him he lost a lot of balls when pressured and had some bad passes. 27 pts on 72.9 ts %, 12 reb, 11 ast with bad defense and 6 turnovers....this is more in line with how Jokic performs against better defense

This makes for some wild reading. I'd find it really hard to justify some other team playing good defense on a guy who gets 27 pts on 72.9 ts %, 12 reb, 11 ast

"Great guys! We stopped him"

It just really shows some people will just never be satisfied if a player isn't perfect/optimally efficient.

You always leave out the turnovers bit to make it look better for yourself, don't you? Can you see defense from the stats as well? But you can't make the same Jokic simp posts like everyone else if you point out the bad things, so lets always include the cool stats. 27 points is not a crazy amount of points. If Jokic scores only 27 against OKC they will likely lose. If Jokic scores 27 pts and Edwards doesn't go 0-8 from three and play like the worst player out there, they likely lose.

This was Jokic's worst game since opening night, he still had a triple double in a road win, and you're acting like he's been exposed as a fraud.

Give me a break.

[MMyhre]

This is a basic example how box score watching can lead to confusion. The fact that you can't see how much he gets double and triple teamed and defenses literally gang up on him anytime he drives to the rim.
In the game vs NOLA, he was the most blitzed and doubled teamed player in the league this season. Lakers still generated great offense out of it, with 1.241 points per chance. Bucks tried exactly the same tactic and yet Luka picked them apart easily. Giannis had 18 FTA, Luka had 20 FTA.

Those FTA are not sustainable i agree with that but just box watching will not tell entire picture here. It's not exactly the same scenario as with Harden who was abusing rules to the point where NBA had to make adjustments.

Its not just "box score watching" if you look at where he shoots from, his usage and comparison to other all time greats. He is getting way too many calls his way, it's as simple as that.

He is taking over FIFTEEN less two pointers than Michael Jordan at his most athletic, way more jump shots than him and STILL getting MORE free throws. There is no one that deserves that amount of fouls called for them.

Like i said, put it in a game context and watch for yourself. I don't know what else to say... other than tell the teams to stop fouling or stop being over aggressive? In playoffs usually some of this balances itself out.

Because refs could go the other way. Finally start calling fouls when he's being doubled mid court and tighten down on hand smacking, jersey being pulled, etc.. Maybe teams won't be so aggressive when he drives which would lead to less fouls being called? But then people would complain he has a free path to the rim, so it's a lose-lose situation again.

There is no conceivable way Luka is being fouled so much more on those 6-8 times he takes a shot at the basket more than what the way better rim attacker and athlete Michael Jordan does at like sixteen extra shots closer to the rim. There is no way, I don't even need to see that to know it, he is just getting bailed out or no one is allowed to touch Luka, he is a big strong guy, you can't just call a foul every time he goes inside. That's almost what's happening now, and he even has the ball less than MJ did, takes way less shots near the rim/drives less than MJ & he plays in a less physical era than MJ, yet I am supposed to believe he deserves 12.2 fta a game?!

No one can play defense against a guy that gets a foul called for him on such a high % of his drives. 38 min and 20 free throws last night.
35 min and 19 free throws against the Wolves. Before every 2nd minute has passed that he plays there is a free throw for Luka Doncic. Almost up 5 attempts from last season, I guess he suddenly became the best ever at foul drawing over one offseason?

He is just better than Wade, Shaq, Jordan, LeBron & all these top athletes and drivers at foul drawing all of a sudden. Miraculous.

Basketball is a physical, contact sport. You can't just give a guy the benefit of the doubt in every close/50/50 situation like what is happening here. That's just not good refereeing.

[SA37]

Jokic looked very human, missed some open threes, when the Wolves defenders pressured him he lost a lot of balls when pressured and had some bad passes. 27 pts on 72.9 ts %, 12 reb, 11 ast with bad defense and 6 turnovers....this is more in line with how Jokic performs against better defense

This makes for some wild reading. I'd find it really hard to justify some other team playing good defense on a guy who gets 27 pts on 72.9 ts %, 12 reb, 11 ast

"Great guys! We stopped him"

It just really shows some people will just never be satisfied if a player isn't perfect/optimally efficient.

You always leave out the turnovers bit to make it look better for yourself, don't you? Can you see defense from the stats as well? But you can't make the same Jokic simp posts like everyone else if you point out the bad things, so lets always include the cool stats. 27 points is not a crazy amount of points. If Jokic scores only 27 against OKC they will likely lose. If Jokic scores 27 pts and Edwards doesn't go 0-8 from three and play like the worst player out there, they likely lose.

The point is whatever your perception of Jokic's defense, his number of turnovers, or all of your counterfactuals, every single team in this league would gladly take Jokic's positive output with the negative.

One of the things that makes MVPs stand out from other really good players is that they are consistently overwhelmingly good versus whatever negatives they bring to the table. Jokic is currently averaging ~29-13-11, which is 8th best in scoring and league-leading in rebounds and assists. He's also 5th in the league in FG%, 23rd in 3pt% and leading the league in double and triple doubles. I'll live with his 3.3 TO/game and less-than-stellar defense.

I don't think there is even a single team out there (outside of Denver) that has all of the following: a top-10 scorer, a top-5 rebounder, a top-5 guy in assists, a top 5 guy in FG%, a top25 guy in 3pt %, and a top-5 guy in double-doubles and triple doubles. And Denver is getting this from a single player

This isn't about ultimate efficiency, optimal output, or seeing if a player checks every fathomable box fans can create for them. You've found something to nit-pick about a guy who, if he were to maintain this level of play, would end up having one of the greatest individual seasons of all-time.

[Archx]

Its not just "box score watching" if you look at where he shoots from, his usage and comparison to other all time greats. He is getting way too many calls his way, it's as simple as that.

He is taking over FIFTEEN less two pointers than Michael Jordan at his most athletic, way more jump shots than him and STILL getting MORE free throws. There is no one that deserves that amount of fouls called for them.

Like i said, put it in a game context and watch for yourself. I don't know what else to say... other than tell the teams to stop fouling or stop being over aggressive? In playoffs usually some of this balances itself out.

Because refs could go the other way. Finally start calling fouls when he's being doubled mid court and tighten down on hand smacking, jersey being pulled, etc.. Maybe teams won't be so aggressive when he drives which would lead to less fouls being called? But then people would complain he has a free path to the rim, so it's a lose-lose situation again.

There is no conceivable way Luka is being fouled so much more on those 6-8 times he takes a shot at the basket more than what the way better rim attacker and athlete Michael Jordan does at like sixteen extra shots closer to the rim. There is no way, I don't even need to see that to know it, he is just getting bailed out or no one is allowed to touch Luka, he is a big strong guy, you can't just call a foul every time he goes inside. That's almost what's happening now, and he even has the ball less than MJ did, takes way less shots near the rim/drives less than MJ & he plays in a less physical era than MJ, yet I am supposed to believe he deserves 12.2 fta a game?!

No one can play defense against a guy that gets a foul called for him on such a high % of his drives.

I see you have problems with Jokic and Luka for some weird reason. Season has only begun and you said yourself FTA will come down. There is no need to already panic.

...he is a big strong guy, you can't just call a foul every time he goes inside... This logic never made sense to me. Lebron has had this problem his entire career, Shaq as well, or GIannis now, etc... Foul is a foul, otherwise what are we doing?

[MMyhre]

This makes for some wild reading. I'd find it really hard to justify some other team playing good defense on a guy who gets 27 pts on 72.9 ts %, 12 reb, 11 ast

"Great guys! We stopped him"

It just really shows some people will just never be satisfied if a player isn't perfect/optimally efficient.

You always leave out the turnovers bit to make it look better for yourself, don't you? Can you see defense from the stats as well? But you can't make the same Jokic simp posts like everyone else if you point out the bad things, so lets always include the cool stats. 27 points is not a crazy amount of points. If Jokic scores only 27 against OKC they will likely lose. If Jokic scores 27 pts and Edwards doesn't go 0-8 from three and play like the worst player out there, they likely lose.

The point is whatever your perception of Jokic's defense, his number of turnovers, or all of your counterfactuals, every single team in this league would gladly take Jokic's positive output with the negative.

One of the things that makes MVPs stand out from other really good players is that they are consistently overwhelmingly good versus whatever negatives they bring to the table. Jokic is currently averaging ~29-13-11, which is 8th best in scoring and league-leading in rebounds and assists. He's also 5th in the league in FG%, 23rd in 3pt% and leading the league in double and triple doubles. I'll live with his 3.3 TO/game and less-than-stellar defense.

This isn't about ultimate efficiency, optimal output, or seeing if a player checks every fathomable box fans can create for them.

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

[MMyhre]

Like i said, put it in a game context and watch for yourself. I don't know what else to say... other than tell the teams to stop fouling or stop being over aggressive? In playoffs usually some of this balances itself out.

Because refs could go the other way. Finally start calling fouls when he's being doubled mid court and tighten down on hand smacking, jersey being pulled, etc.. Maybe teams won't be so aggressive when he drives which would lead to less fouls being called? But then people would complain he has a free path to the rim, so it's a lose-lose situation again.

There is no conceivable way Luka is being fouled so much more on those 6-8 times he takes a shot at the basket more than what the way better rim attacker and athlete Michael Jordan does at like sixteen extra shots closer to the rim. There is no way, I don't even need to see that to know it, he is just getting bailed out or no one is allowed to touch Luka, he is a big strong guy, you can't just call a foul every time he goes inside. That's almost what's happening now, and he even has the ball less than MJ did, takes way less shots near the rim/drives less than MJ & he plays in a less physical era than MJ, yet I am supposed to believe he deserves 12.2 fta a game?!

No one can play defense against a guy that gets a foul called for him on such a high % of his drives.

I see you have problems with Jokic and Luka for some weird reason. Season has only begun and you said yourself FTA will come down. There is no need to already panic.

...he is a big strong guy, you can't just call a foul every time he goes inside... This logic never made sense to me. Lebron has had this problem his entire career, Shaq as well, or GIannis now, etc... Foul is a foul, otherwise what are we doing?

Luka is taking almost 90 % jump shots, yet somehow getting more fouls called for him than these players that attack the rim more, and in some cases even had the ball more AND played more minutes than him. Make it make sense. I can't. Lakers & Superstar whistle. All there is to it.

I don't have a problem with anyone, I have a problem with people that overglaze people without thinking critically. I have Jokic number 1 in the MVP race. I do not like glorification of one person or two like Jokic & Luka, and the opposite for Shai, without good reason to actually do so except being **** on the internet.

[SA37]

You always leave out the turnovers bit to make it look better for yourself, don't you? Can you see defense from the stats as well? But you can't make the same Jokic simp posts like everyone else if you point out the bad things, so lets always include the cool stats. 27 points is not a crazy amount of points. If Jokic scores only 27 against OKC they will likely lose. If Jokic scores 27 pts and Edwards doesn't go 0-8 from three and play like the worst player out there, they likely lose.

The point is whatever your perception of Jokic's defense, his number of turnovers, or all of your counterfactuals, every single team in this league would gladly take Jokic's positive output with the negative.

One of the things that makes MVPs stand out from other really good players is that they are consistently overwhelmingly good versus whatever negatives they bring to the table. Jokic is currently averaging ~29-13-11, which is 8th best in scoring and league-leading in rebounds and assists. He's also 5th in the league in FG%, 23rd in 3pt% and leading the league in double and triple doubles. I'll live with his 3.3 TO/game and less-than-stellar defense.

This isn't about ultimate efficiency, optimal output, or seeing if a player checks every fathomable box fans can create for them.

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

Wilt Chamberlain is as dominant of a player as there has ever been and yet he only won 2 titles. His legacy is just fine.

Yeah, teams can beat Denver despite having a player as dominant as Jokic. Who cares? It takes absolutely nothing away from Jokic and his output.

[zero rings]

You always leave out the turnovers bit to make it look better for yourself, don't you? Can you see defense from the stats as well? But you can't make the same Jokic simp posts like everyone else if you point out the bad things, so lets always include the cool stats. 27 points is not a crazy amount of points. If Jokic scores only 27 against OKC they will likely lose. If Jokic scores 27 pts and Edwards doesn't go 0-8 from three and play like the worst player out there, they likely lose.

The point is whatever your perception of Jokic's defense, his number of turnovers, or all of your counterfactuals, every single team in this league would gladly take Jokic's positive output with the negative.

One of the things that makes MVPs stand out from other really good players is that they are consistently overwhelmingly good versus whatever negatives they bring to the table. Jokic is currently averaging ~29-13-11, which is 8th best in scoring and league-leading in rebounds and assists. He's also 5th in the league in FG%, 23rd in 3pt% and leading the league in double and triple doubles. I'll live with his 3.3 TO/game and less-than-stellar defense.

This isn't about ultimate efficiency, optimal output, or seeing if a player checks every fathomable box fans can create for them.

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

Jokic had a 60 pt triple double against Gobert last season. He had back-to-back 40 pieces against Wemby.

If your argument is that Jokic isn't as mind-blowingly efficient against the very best defenders in the world, okay? That's usually how it works for any player.

It feels like you've been waiting all season for Jokic to have a so-so game (by his standards) so you can blast us with this hot take.

[MMyhre]

The point is whatever your perception of Jokic's defense, his number of turnovers, or all of your counterfactuals, every single team in this league would gladly take Jokic's positive output with the negative.

One of the things that makes MVPs stand out from other really good players is that they are consistently overwhelmingly good versus whatever negatives they bring to the table. Jokic is currently averaging ~29-13-11, which is 8th best in scoring and league-leading in rebounds and assists. He's also 5th in the league in FG%, 23rd in 3pt% and leading the league in double and triple doubles. I'll live with his 3.3 TO/game and less-than-stellar defense.

This isn't about ultimate efficiency, optimal output, or seeing if a player checks every fathomable box fans can create for them.

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

Jokic had a 60 pt triple double against Gobert last season. He had back-to-back 40 pieces against Wemby.

If your argument is that Jokic isn't as mind-blowingly efficient against the very best defenders in the world, okay? That's usually how it works for any player.

It feels like you've been waiting all season for Jokic to have a so-so game (by his standards) so you can blast us with this hot take.

You are chronically masturbating to this man, so someone has to remind you that he is not a flawless demigod.

Where has those big games been against Wolves, OKC and Finland? Almost like he keeps failing, over and over, yet you always fall for this Jokic GOAT/regular season glazing.

He had an easy schedule. He is really, really good. Both can be true, but he is not a GOAT candidate or miles above Shai in the race either. That's my problem with your boring, repetitive takes on his statlines without any insight into how his game translates to better defenses whatsoever.

[MMyhre]

The point is whatever your perception of Jokic's defense, his number of turnovers, or all of your counterfactuals, every single team in this league would gladly take Jokic's positive output with the negative.

One of the things that makes MVPs stand out from other really good players is that they are consistently overwhelmingly good versus whatever negatives they bring to the table. Jokic is currently averaging ~29-13-11, which is 8th best in scoring and league-leading in rebounds and assists. He's also 5th in the league in FG%, 23rd in 3pt% and leading the league in double and triple doubles. I'll live with his 3.3 TO/game and less-than-stellar defense.

This isn't about ultimate efficiency, optimal output, or seeing if a player checks every fathomable box fans can create for them.

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

Wilt Chamberlain is as dominant of a player as there has ever been and yet he only won 2 titles. His legacy is just fine.

Yeah, teams can beat Denver despite having a player as dominant as Jokic. Who cares? It takes absolutely nothing away from Jokic and his output.

No, you are wrong. Bill Russell beat Wilt by doing the small things Wilt did not figure out.

Defense, intangibles, leadership, teamplay etc.

You just proved my point further, Jokic is the hero for the box score watchers & the big stats dopamine boys. Someone they can worship and live their lives through. Of course you would mention the first empty stats king as the comparison, it's perfect. You know Wilt didn't win a ring until he improved his all around game, defense and focused less on scoring and big numbers, right?

Of course Jokic losing in the playoffs repeatedly and being unable to beat teams like the Baby-Ant Wolves and Finland take away from his output, lol. It literally proves that his stats make him look better than he is.

Michael Jordan doesn't lose to the Wolves in 23-24. Arguably not to OKC either. Definitely not to Finland with the pre-tournament favorite in Serbia.

Why? Because Michael Jordan is more than his stats. He played elite defense, had elite intensity, desire to win and was clutch.

If Jokic wins this season I will be the first to applaud him. I am just not joining you in your overglazing.

[zero rings]

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

Jokic had a 60 pt triple double against Gobert last season. He had back-to-back 40 pieces against Wemby.

If your argument is that Jokic isn't as mind-blowingly efficient against the very best defenders in the world, okay? That's usually how it works for any player.

It feels like you've been waiting all season for Jokic to have a so-so game (by his standards) so you can blast us with this hot take.

You are chronically masturbating to this man, so someone has to remind you that he is not a flawless demigod.

Where has those big games been against Wolves, OKC and Finland? Almost like he keeps failing, over and over, yet you always fall for this Jokic GOAT/regular season glazing.

He had an easy schedule. He is really, really good. Both can be true, but he is not a GOAT candidate or miles above Shai in the race either. That's my problem with your boring, repetitive takes on his statlines without any insight into how his game translates to better defenses whatsoever.

Jokic is human. I already knew that and you're not providing any insight.

The difference between me and you is, when SGA has an off night or underperforms against a great defense, I don't hop on here and write half a book about how he's been exposed and really isn't all that great.

Next time, maybe wait for Jokic to have an actual bad game before blowing your load. It will look less unhinged.

[Handlez]

Wow, would every team want Jokic? Wow, that is insane. I did not believe that, maybe they would want Shai, Luka, Giannis and Wemby too? Yes?
That doesn't prove anything, of course you want a freaking MVP candidate on your team.

However, when we talk about MVP's and legacies, we need to go deeper and not just look at the obvious statistical outliers, and get the context of what has happened. Jokic not being able to playmake or score as much as he has against worse teams, is a sign that better defenses can slow him down. Can they stop him? No, but that's what happens to every great player. It's about how much can you will yourself upon the game, and take your team further than the other MVP candidates. And this game from Jokic was not as flawless as he had it against weaker teams. Now let's see him against the Rockets, Wemby, OKC etc. It will be very interesting, I will praise him if he drops bombs on them, but I personally don't see it happening as they have even better defenders for him than Minnesota does.

Wilt Chamberlain is as dominant of a player as there has ever been and yet he only won 2 titles. His legacy is just fine.

Yeah, teams can beat Denver despite having a player as dominant as Jokic. Who cares? It takes absolutely nothing away from Jokic and his output.

No, you are wrong. Bill Russell beat Wilt by doing the small things Wilt did not figure out.

Defense, intangibles, leadership, teamplay etc.

You just proved my point further, Jokic is the hero for the box score watchers & the big stats dopamine boys. Someone they can worship and live their lives through. Of course you would mention the first empty stats king as the comparison, it's perfect. You know Wilt didn't win a ring until he improved his all around game, defense and focused less on scoring and big numbers, right?

Of course Jokic losing in the playoffs repeatedly and being unable to beat teams like the Baby-Ant Wolves and Finland take away from his output, lol. It literally proves that his stats make him look better than he is.

Michael Jordan doesn't lose to the Wolves in 23-24. Arguably not to OKC either. Definitely not to Finland with the pre-tournament favorite in Serbia.

Why? Because Michael Jordan is more than his stats. He played elite defense, had elite intensity, desire to win and was clutch.

If Jokic wins this season I will be the first to applaud him. I am just not joining you in your overglazing.

Bill beat Wilt because he had the best help more often than not.

Don't be crazy.

[MMyhre]

Jokic had a 60 pt triple double against Gobert last season. He had back-to-back 40 pieces against Wemby.

If your argument is that Jokic isn't as mind-blowingly efficient against the very best defenders in the world, okay? That's usually how it works for any player.

It feels like you've been waiting all season for Jokic to have a so-so game (by his standards) so you can blast us with this hot take.

You are chronically masturbating to this man, so someone has to remind you that he is not a flawless demigod.

Where has those big games been against Wolves, OKC and Finland? Almost like he keeps failing, over and over, yet you always fall for this Jokic GOAT/regular season glazing.

He had an easy schedule. He is really, really good. Both can be true, but he is not a GOAT candidate or miles above Shai in the race either. That's my problem with your boring, repetitive takes on his statlines without any insight into how his game translates to better defenses whatsoever.

Jokic is human. I already knew that and you're not providing any insight.

The difference between me and you is, when SGA has an off night or underperforms against a great defense, I don't hop on here and write half a book about how he's been exposed and really isn't all that great.

Next time, maybe wait for Jokic to have an actual bad game before blowing your load. It will look less unhinged.

I provided a lot of insight, you're just not capable of interpreting it and keep being defensive about it.

I literally just said he was great, how can I have him 1 in the race and not think he is great? Are you having problems reading? Might want to check that out.

[MMyhre]

Wilt Chamberlain is as dominant of a player as there has ever been and yet he only won 2 titles. His legacy is just fine.

Yeah, teams can beat Denver despite having a player as dominant as Jokic. Who cares? It takes absolutely nothing away from Jokic and his output.

No, you are wrong. Bill Russell beat Wilt by doing the small things Wilt did not figure out.

Defense, intangibles, leadership, teamplay etc.

You just proved my point further, Jokic is the hero for the box score watchers & the big stats dopamine boys. Someone they can worship and live their lives through. Of course you would mention the first empty stats king as the comparison, it's perfect. You know Wilt didn't win a ring until he improved his all around game, defense and focused less on scoring and big numbers, right?

Of course Jokic losing in the playoffs repeatedly and being unable to beat teams like the Baby-Ant Wolves and Finland take away from his output, lol. It literally proves that his stats make him look better than he is.

Michael Jordan doesn't lose to the Wolves in 23-24. Arguably not to OKC either. Definitely not to Finland with the pre-tournament favorite in Serbia.

Why? Because Michael Jordan is more than his stats. He played elite defense, had elite intensity, desire to win and was clutch.

If Jokic wins this season I will be the first to applaud him. I am just not joining you in your overglazing.

Bill beat Wilt because he had the best help more often than not.

Don't be crazy.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that it really is that simple if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Defense, leadership, accountability & teamplay/team morale matters more than one talented individual who looks for his own glory over trying to find ways to win. Wilt had great teams as well, yet he was always so far behind Russell who was just a smarter man than him.

Spurs 13-14 are not that team if Duncan says I am the star and starts slacking on defense, having egoistic tantrums & demanding shots & taking a high usage.

The Superstar sets the example for the rest of the group. No one wants to follow or play hard for a selfish superstar who only wants glory for himself.

I am not saying Wilt was only that, but from what I have read and listened to about him he was certainly egoistical and lacked perspective.

[TinmanZBoy]

Joker is aiming at 60/40/90 triple double club, nobody can top that if it really happens…. Just name the MVP award the “joker” award already

[ball_takes23]

Wemby's likely not going to win MVP this season, but the Spurs would legitimately be 0-12 without him right now. Maaaybe 1-11. He's that valuable to our team, especially defensively. The fact that we go from the #2-ranked defense in the NBA with him on the floor to the 27th-ranked defense when he sits is ridiculous. Spurs desperately need more 3&D guys around him.

Unfortunately we are going to find out how true this is. Ruled out vs SAC with calf tightness, I imagine the Spurs will be super cautious with it being calf-related and will hold Wemby out for a week or longer

[Exp0sed]

Wemby's likely not going to win MVP this season, but the Spurs would legitimately be 0-12 without him right now. Maaaybe 1-11. He's that valuable to our team, especially defensively. The fact that we go from the #2-ranked defense in the NBA with him on the floor to the 27th-ranked defense when he sits is ridiculous. Spurs desperately need more 3&D guys around him.

Unfortunately we are going to find out how true this is. Ruled out vs SAC with calf tightness, I imagine the Spurs will be super cautious with it being calf-related and will hold Wemby out for a week or longer

That's a big blow for his MVP case, as well. He's up against guys that tend to play pretty regurlaly

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[hagredionis]

Wemby's likely not going to win MVP this season, but the Spurs would legitimately be 0-12 without him right now. Maaaybe 1-11. He's that valuable to our team, especially defensively. The fact that we go from the #2-ranked defense in the NBA with him on the floor to the 27th-ranked defense when he sits is ridiculous. Spurs desperately need more 3&D guys around him.

Unfortunately we are going to find out how true this is. Ruled out vs SAC with calf tightness, I imagine the Spurs will be super cautious with it being calf-related and will hold Wemby out for a week or longer

That's a big blow for his MVP case, as well. He's up against guys that tend to play pretty regurlaly

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He doesn't have much of a case anyway. Luka, SGA, Jokic and Giannis are clearly ahead.

[SA37]

Joker is aiming at 60/40/90 triple double club, nobody can top that if it really happens…. Just name the MVP award the “joker” award already

New NBA Logo just dropped

[Exp0sed]

Unfortunately we are going to find out how true this is. Ruled out vs SAC with calf tightness, I imagine the Spurs will be super cautious with it being calf-related and will hold Wemby out for a week or longer

That's a big blow for his MVP case, as well. He's up against guys that tend to play pretty regurlaly

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He doesn't have much of a case anyway. Luka, SGA, Jokic and Giannis are clearly ahead.

I still have him 3rd personally atm, but he was trending more towards 5th no doubt