Are people too hard on Billy Donovan?

[Red Larrivee]

To me it's simple, he had mega talent on his team that most coaches never had and when they did, they won multiple championships. He had Durant, harden , Westbrook at same time, MVPs that will be in HOF and won jack ****.

Harden wasn't on that team, and he only coached that duo for 1 season. That Thunder team literally lost to the best NBA team of the last 25+ years.

[Lunartic]

To me it's simple, he had mega talent on his team that most coaches never had and when they did, they won multiple championships. He had Durant, harden , Westbrook at same time, MVPs that will be in HOF and won jack ****.

I wouldn't even begin to compare current players to that, sooooo, people might think i overreact, but I view him as coach that would fumble and lose even with 96-98 bulls team.

I haven't seen anything since he came to bulls that would lead me to believe he changed or learned anything from the past failures.

On the other hand I keep seeing same pattern in 4th quarter that kept happening in OKC and are happening here on bulls too. It results in collapses unless main ballhandler guard is on fire( so he doesn't lose every close game ofc)

All the other stuff is academic, as all we can judge anyone's performance in high competitive environment, competition is the end results.

His are lacking outside of college, so he is fine with young players and most likely fine for last and this year, but if he not gone by next season, I'm sorry, but all this is pointless as it will lead to same result as 2010's OKC. I funny enough view Kidd as same coach, good to start rebuild, point A to point B coach, but to get to Point C(championship), u need a totally different guy

Exactly. There's these "intangibles" that are promoted by Billy's supporters that don't actually show up in reality.

He has a great relationship with the FO? That's lovely, I'm sure lots of people do.
The players like him personally? Excellent, they can get a dog.

In game, the only real measure that's observable - he's bad. I don't see any impressive out -of-bounds plays, or rotations or adjustments. I see a program and him sticking to it and even the "program" sucks.

Spurs game was just another example. Why create a plan that doesn't involve heavily playing Buzelis - a good defender with length and 3rd leading scorer on the team (sans Giddey) and is shooting 3's at 38%? He scored an efficient 15 points and played as many minutes as PWill who scored 5 points and can't create shots. And shockingly, the Bulls couldn't score whatsoever.

He refuses to challenge obvious bad calls and never actually campaigns the refs for his guys, has he ever been given a tech? He just chews gum and runs the same static rotations and ignores the actual in-game events. He is a bad coach and even his supporters insist he's merely "average" as if that's something we should be happy about.

[Seccci]

If bulls are not going to play defense, than there is literally nothing coach Donovan bring to the table, that was sort of one thing that is consistent over years with his teams.

Like literally to the bottom of the letter he is more useless now than mascot or any of us over here, just a figurine posing as bulls personnel.

its obvious, if he doesn't have all star level ball handler/playcaller on the floor, his team descents into chaos, lets hope something works out clown show.

It was like that even OKC, he had best years when he just give ball to Westbrook, or CP3 or even to Paul George- that's it, that was his plan.

It's same here, give it to DeMar, or give it to lavine... Now if no Giddey, we see his "coaching", or development of young players....

There's none

I see right through people like this, great A bullshitters, sweetalkers who ride on " managing", "coaching " talents of other people

Now we see that 5-0 run was just other teams cold shooting, was no coaching or development being done there.

Now bulls losing to g league teams, wheres the coaching or development of young players....

Zero, as he doesn't have any star playcaller on the floor, no CP3, no Westbrook, no Giddey level PG to run plays, do it's just chaos and hope and bomb

[GoBlue72391]

No

[Indomitable]

Donovan was brought here to win games. Not develop young guys, win games. Has to coach the players that are on the team. Let's talk about the core and how they are widely considered, represented in here:
.

Billy is overrated and does not make good decisions in game. He is the standard bearer of mediocre

[GoBlue72391]

We're losing too many games because of our coach rather than our players. That's unacceptable.

[Stratmaster]

The only coach I can think of who might instantly bring 5 wins a team's roster (the Bulls or otherwise) is Thibs. But there is a price to pay for that.

I don't know about bringing 5 wins. But a case could be made that Billy has already brought 3 losses this season. And we are only 11 games in.

Obviously we can't say with certainty the Bulls would have won had he doubled Wemby. But sitting back and watching him take over the game and single handedly win it is pretty pathetic. Same with the other games. Do they win them if he actually coaches in game? Maybe. Maybe not. But they certainly will lose them if he doesn't.

[Indomitable]

The only coach I can think of who might instantly bring 5 wins a team's roster (the Bulls or otherwise) is Thibs. But there is a price to pay for that.

I don't know about bringing 5 wins. But a case could be made that Billy has already brought 3 losses this season. And we are only 11 games in.

Obviously we can't say with certainty the Bulls would have won had he doubled Wemby. But sitting back and watching him take over the game and single handedly win it is pretty pathetic. Same with the other games. Do they win them if he actually coaches in game? Maybe. Maybe not. But they certainly will lose them if he doesn't.

Billy must have a great line of BS.

[Jcool0]

So how do you become one of Billy's made men? Where no matter what you do on the court you will always have his full trust. You have Vuc who made two all star teams but the last one was almost 5 seasons ago & is now almost always a negative on the court and you have Okoro who is a new player, cant score to save his life, but seems to already be his "defensive stopper" despite being at best average defender. He gave a ton of entitlement minutes to Pat but now is still treating Matas like a raw rookie despite being his 2nd most important player in year 2 and Noa hasn't played a single minute despite the Bulls having size issues. Both seems like an overreaction to Pat not living up to what the Bulls thought.

[Red Larrivee]

So how do you become one of Billy's made men? Where no matter what you do on the court you will always have his full trust. You have Vuc who made two all star teams but the last one was almost 5 seasons ago & is now almost always a negative on the court and you have Okoro who is a new player, cant score to save his life, but seems to already be his "defensive stopper" despite being at best average defender. He gave a ton of entitlement minutes to Pat but now is still treating Matas like a raw rookie despite being his 2nd most important player in year 2 and Noa hasn't played a single minute despite the Bulls having size issues. Both seems like an overreaction to Pat not living up to what the Bulls thought.

Matas is averaging about 30mpg.

I do think there have been a few games where Matas should've been out there more, but raw rookies usually don't get the type of playing time or role he's currently getting.

[Jcool0]

So how do you become one of Billy's made men? Where no matter what you do on the court you will always have his full trust. You have Vuc who made two all star teams but the last one was almost 5 seasons ago & is now almost always a negative on the court and you have Okoro who is a new player, cant score to save his life, but seems to already be his "defensive stopper" despite being at best average defender. He gave a ton of entitlement minutes to Pat but now is still treating Matas like a raw rookie despite being his 2nd most important player in year 2 and Noa hasn't played a single minute despite the Bulls having size issues. Both seems like an overreaction to Pat not living up to what the Bulls thought.

Matas is averaging about 30mpg.

He was benched for most of the 4th against Utah and last night was pulled for Okoro for the last play of the game.

[Ice Man]

We're losing too many games because of our coach rather than our players. That's unacceptable.

Hmmm, let's see.

1) A team expected to win in the low 30s, with nobody remotely an All Star candidate except for Josh Giddey, is 7-6 after playing the toughest schedule in the league.

2) That team is 4-2 in games decided by 5 points or fewer. And the two games that it did lose were the two games that it was missing its lone star.

I see absolutely nothing to complain about.

Now, you want a bad coach ... try Jason Kidd. The Mavs are 2nd in the NBA in pace, faster than us, but have failed to score 110 points on 8 occasions, including 4 when AD was available. The Bulls have had no such games this year. And if you watch each team, you will quickly see the difference between a team with a coach who is unable to formulate an offensive plan and one that is professionally, capably coached.

There's a reason that players like Billy and stick with him, year after year. That reason is trust. And they wouldn't trust him if he were doing stupid things. He would lose the locker room if that were the case.

[Red Larrivee]

So how do you become one of Billy's made men? Where no matter what you do on the court you will always have his full trust. You have Vuc who made two all star teams but the last one was almost 5 seasons ago & is now almost always a negative on the court and you have Okoro who is a new player, cant score to save his life, but seems to already be his "defensive stopper" despite being at best average defender. He gave a ton of entitlement minutes to Pat but now is still treating Matas like a raw rookie despite being his 2nd most important player in year 2 and Noa hasn't played a single minute despite the Bulls having size issues. Both seems like an overreaction to Pat not living up to what the Bulls thought.

Matas is averaging about 30mpg.

He was benched for most of the 4th against Utah and last night was pulled for Okoro for the last play of the game.

Matas played half of the 4th and the entire 1st OT.

I don't see anything wrong with subbing him out for Okoro on a singular defensive possession.

[Jcool0]

Matas is averaging about 30mpg.

He was benched for most of the 4th against Utah and last night was pulled for Okoro for the last play of the game.

Matas played half of the 4th and the entire 1st OT.

I don't see anything wrong with subbing him out for Okoro on a singular defensive possession.

I mean i think the one problem would be Matas is a much better defender then Okoro. If anyone needed to be subbed it was Vuc. And apparently your okay with Matas being subbed out for half the 4th quarter when at the time he was the best player for Chicago? That seems like a good idea to you? Larui went off when Okoro was on him which is not surprising since he is 6'4"

[Red Larrivee]

I mean i think the one problem would be Matas is a much better defender then Okoro. If anyone needed to be subbed it was Vuc. And apparently your okay with Matas being subbed out for half the 4th quarter when at the time he was the best player for Chicago? That seems like a good idea to you? Larui went off when Okoro was on him which is not surprising since he is 6'4"

I'm confused on what you're saying. You're saying Matas should've played the entire 4th? He had 2 points in the 3Q and 13 for the game when he sat. How he was our best player to that point? I also don't agree that he's a better defender than Okoro, though I would rather him guard 7-footers than Okoro just from a size component.

It sounds like you want to treat Matas like a player he's yet to become. I think he should be in any close or meaningful game, but that doesn't mean he plays 38 minutes or the entire 4th. That just seems like a leap of an expectation.

[Jcool0]

I mean i think the one problem would be Matas is a much better defender then Okoro. If anyone needed to be subbed it was Vuc. And apparently your okay with Matas being subbed out for half the 4th quarter when at the time he was the best player for Chicago? That seems like a good idea to you? Larui went off when Okoro was on him which is not surprising since he is 6'4"

I'm confused on what you're saying. You're saying Matas should've played the entire 4th? He had 2 points in the 3Q and 13 for the game when he sat. How he was our best player to that point? I also don't agree that he's a better defender than Okoro, though I would rather him guard 7-footers than Okoro just from a size component.

It sounds like you want to treat Matas like a player he's yet to become. I think he should be in any close or meaningful game, but that doesn't mean he plays 38 minutes or the entire 4th. That just seems like a leap of an expectation.

Who said anything about the entire 4th quarter. He was subbed out with 7 minutes to play after hitting a 3 pointer to give the Bulls the lead back. I guess you are okay with that. I happen to think maybe we pull it out if he is brought back in. We of course will never know that. But do know Larui went off with Okoro on him and no idea why Billy stuck with it for the rest of the quarter.

[Red Larrivee]

Who said anything about the entire 4th quarter. He was subbed out with 7 minutes to play after hitting a 3 pointer to give the Bulls the lead back. I guess you are okay with that. I happen to think maybe we pull it out if he is brought back in. We of course will never know that. But do know Larui went off with Okoro on him and no idea why Billy stuck with it for the rest of the quarter.

That doesn't mean he was our best player to that point. He was having a decent game. He took 2 shots in the 12 minutes he played in the 2nd half.

I don't think Matas playing 6 minutes in the 4th directly led to Utah winning the game. That's a big leap, even if I don't agree with Donovan's rotations. I'm not seeing a player who's being treated like a rookie. There are absolutely things he can control that he needs to do better with.

[Jcool0]

Who said anything about the entire 4th quarter. He was subbed out with 7 minutes to play after hitting a 3 pointer to give the Bulls the lead back. I guess you are okay with that. I happen to think maybe we pull it out if he is brought back in. We of course will never know that. But do know Larui went off with Okoro on him and no idea why Billy stuck with it for the rest of the quarter.

That doesn't mean he was our best player to that point. He was having a decent game. He took 2 shots in the 12 minutes he played in the 2nd half.

I don't think Matas playing 6 minutes in the 4th directly led to Utah winning the game. That's a big leap, even if I don't agree with Donovan's rotations. I'm not seeing a player who's being treated like a rookie. There are absolutely things he can control that he needs to do better with.

You should listen to yourself. "Unless Matas is **** the bed, he should be in every close game. Otherwise, what's the point?"

[Red Larrivee]

You should listen to yourself. "Unless Matas is **** the bed, he should be in every close game. Otherwise, what's the point?"

That doesn't conflict at all with what I'm saying. I don't agree with the rotations, but I don't think he's being incorrectly used from a minutes standpoint when he's typically playing 30 a game and has the 2nd most 4th quarter minutes on the team and the 4th most on average. Do you want him to just have 10 guaranteed 4Q minutes? Since when do raw rookies get anywhere near the minutes he gets rotationally or situationally?