Roster is a mess - missed draft picks are part of reason

[Duffman100]

Never should have traded Norm for Gary.

lol jesus, that was like 5 years ago. I mean obviously we shouldn't have but wow, we gotta get over it.

[dagger]

The best three man net rating on the team is Shead/Dick/Mamu and it's not particularly close. The bench net ratings are all in strong positive territory. Shead is turning out to be a draft steal. He's already a great backup PG and at 23, he still has room to improve offensively, both his shooting - like adding a mid-range floater - and running the offence. In his current role, Gradey is attracting a lot of attention with his athleticism, off-ball movement and cuts, and the threat of his shooting. His D is even a bit better. Worst case, he is a solid sixth or seventh man as the Raptors rotate upwards in the standings, so not a missed pick at all if you value team success over a guy stuffing his stats on a terrible team.

Playing together, the bench crew has the intelligent design perhaps lacking in the starters, but they don't have to play against the best half-court defences. As CMB grows in his game, he could gain more traction with this group.

[TheGeneral99]

Never should have traded Norm for Gary.

lol jesus, that was like 5 years ago. I mean obviously we shouldn't have but wow, we gotta get over it.

And looking back, most people were pretty happy that we traded an injury prone 28 year old for a 22 year old guy that seemed to be on the rise.

It didn't work out. Nobody predicted Powell would be this good for this long and Gary never improved.

Powell is having a really remarkable career, entering his peak in his early 30s, after being a back up role player for the first 6-7 years of his career.

[realball]

Never should have traded Norm for Gary.

lol jesus, that was like 5 years ago. I mean obviously we shouldn't have but wow, we gotta get over it.

And looking back, most people were pretty happy that we traded an injury prone 28 year old for a 22 year old guy that seemed to be on the rise.

It didn't work out. Nobody predicted Powell would be this good for this long and Gary never improved.

Powell is having a really remarkable career, entering his peak in his early 30s, after being a back up role player for the first 6-7 years of his career.

It's not like Gary was a big bust for us either. He started playoff games for us, averaged 18 ppg one year. Final year, he was averaging 15 ppg on 40% from 3. We just ended up not having room for him on the roster. He's no Norm but he's still a solid rotation player for the Bucks.

[Tha Cynic]

Basically everything Masai said they were working towards is coming to fruition.

I remember all the talk about how this roster didn’t fit and how one dude on a podcast said they were too expensive even though every team has the same salary cap and the Raptors were just at cap, and then this became the trend thing to say. They said they didn’t understand how this team fit together and people ran with what a couple of podcast guys said lol.

Then you had media guys like William Lou talking as if this team was a joke and now suddenly has done a complete 180 showing once again these dudes really don’t analyze the game but go by emotions and how much the team matches current team trends.

This team from beginning of last season had a lot of clear signs they were approaching Derozan/Lowry Raptors and you could see that’s what Masai was trying to rebuild (more towards the end stages of that team). Maybe next time apply injuries, intentional tanking, player development focus to your own team like you excuse other teams they face and beat.

[HiJiNX]

Basically everything Masai said they were working towards is coming to fruition.

I remember all the talk about how this roster didn’t fit and how one dude on a podcast said they’re too expensive even though every team had the same salary cap and the Raptors are just at cap, and then this became the tend thing to say. They said Raptors were too expensive didn’t t understand how this team fit together and people ran with what one or two podcast guys said lol.

Then you had media guys like William Lou talking as if this team was a joke and now suddenly has done a complete 180 showing once again these dudes really don’t analyze the game but go by emotions and how much the team matches current team trends.

This team from beginning of last season had a lot of clear signs they were approaching Derozan/Lowry Raptors and you could see that’s what Masai was trying to rebuild (more towards the end stages of that team). Maybe next time apply injuries, intentional tanking, player development focus to your own team like you excuse other teams they face and beat.

Man you’re on fire lately. Post after post, just nailing it.

Sad that Ujiri was fired (for what I believe was racism dressed up as performance not matching salary or whatever). Hopefully Bobby can get this team over the hump.

[ArthurVandelay]

Basically everything Masai said they were working towards is coming to fruition.

I remember all the talk about how this roster didn’t fit and how one dude on a podcast said they’re too expensive even though every team had the same salary cap and the Raptors are just at cap, and then this became the tend thing to say. They said Raptors were too expensive didn’t t understand how this team fit together and people ran with what one or two podcast guys said lol.

Then you had media guys like William Lou talking as if this team was a joke and now suddenly has done a complete 180 showing once again these dudes really don’t analyze the game but go by emotions and how much the team matches current team trends.

This team from beginning of last season had a lot of clear signs they were approaching Derozan/Lowry Raptors and you could see that’s what Masai was trying to rebuild (more towards the end stages of that team). Maybe next time apply injuries, intentional tanking, player development focus to your own team like you excuse other teams they face and beat.

Don’t read too much into this comparison, but there are some (very basic, simple) similarities:

Siakam and OG = bargnani and Gay trades

Ibaka = BI trade

Next up….

Kawhi and Gasol trades

[Los_29]

This thread has not aged well. lol.

[brownbobcat]

This thread has not aged well. lol.

I've never seen any banners that were earned after 14 games. I don’t think they're a "mess" but it's also true that the FO hasn't had any wild draft successes in some time. I fully understand you can't expect All Stars with every mid-round pick, but that's very much how they stacked the team prior to championship.

[anotherhomer]

This thread has not aged well. lol.

I've never seen any banners that were earned after 14 games. I don’t think they're a "mess" but it's also true that the FO hasn't had any wild draft successes in some time. I fully understand you can't expect All Stars with every mid-round pick, but that's very much how they stacked the team prior to championship.

it's more darko just maximizing the team right now....
lots of good players but lots of misfits, and holes

can't put a finger around it tho.....i mean having guys like Ingram, Barnes helps but everything around it, is so weird u know what i mean?

[ATLTimekeeper]

This thread has not aged well. lol.

I've never seen any banners that were earned after 14 games. I don’t think they're a "mess" but it's also true that the FO hasn't had any wild draft successes in some time. I fully understand you can't expect All Stars with every mid-round pick, but that's very much how they stacked the team prior to championship.

They didn't have any drafted all-stars on that championship team. Siakam won the MIP, and was an all-star a year later. Fred was a bench player that earned an all-star slot 3 seasons after. In their 2nd seasons they averaged 7 and 8 points off the bench.

Just for an example, Norm was averaging 8.6 points a game on that team in his 5th season.

This team currently has Gradey, 3rd season. Shead, second season. Walter, second season. Murray-Boyles, first season. No banners after 14 games, but there's also time to see what all these guys have as they pull out of a rebuild.

[bluerap23]

Never should have traded Norm for Gary.

lol jesus, that was like 5 years ago. I mean obviously we shouldn't have but wow, we gotta get over it.

with butterfly effect we probably end up keeping Fred, OG, Pascal if Norm stays and we are an actual treadmill team.

[binjumper]

Amazing the amount of straw grasping. Just eat the crow. tHErE iS nO bANnEr AFteR 14 gAMes!

[deck]

If the standard of the roster not being a mess is that we are winning championships, then yeah, 95% of NBA rosters are a mess.

[Quattro]

Jamal shead isn't considered a "draft success" where he was picked? Oh wait I forgot where I was posting

[raptorforlife88]

There's time but sure the Jakobe pick looks a bit rough, especially given there were three fairly decent players taken in the next five picks after him. But that's drafting, you can't win them all, although Masai's 2010s draft record would have you thinking it's possible. He got Shead, who looks very solid right now, and that's not a terrible result. Walter also still has time to figure it out (although for sure he's been terrible this year).

Gradey is honestly fine. Of the 17 guys taken after him in the first round, there's like 3 or 4 guys I'd prefer ahead of him, which is pretty reasonable. There's also a few guys taken right before him that have been worse. He's improved each year, he hasn't had as many opportunities this year, but the numbers bear out that he's been more effective. And also for whatever reason, the team is wildly better when he's on the court.

CMB is already a steady contributor on a winning team. You can't ask for more than that.

Essentially that means, you've got Scottie, Shead, Gradey, and CMB from the last five drafts. 2022 was a loss with Koloko (and some bad luck there). I think that's fine.

No it doesn't compare to the value Masai got during that 2015-2017 draft run. But that run really confused people about what is realistically likely. That is a genuinely historic draft run. There's maybe one or two other execs that have ever extracted that much value from late picks in a multi year time frame (plus UDFA signings). I mean it, you can review every teams draft history and you will not find a run like that except for when Utah got Stockton and Malone at the 16th and 13th pick in back to back drafts.

[Spida888]

There's time but sure the Jakobe pick looks a bit rough, especially given there were three fairly decent players taken in the next five picks after him. But that's drafting, you can't win them all, although Masai's 2010s draft record would have you thinking it's possible. He got Shead, who looks very solid right now, and that's not a terrible result. Walter also still has time to figure it out (although for sure he's been terrible this year).

Gradey is honestly fine. Of the 17 guys taken after him in the first round, there's like 3 or 4 guys I'd prefer ahead of him, which is pretty reasonable. There's also a few guys taken right before him that have been worse. He's improved each year, he hasn't had as many opportunities this year, but the numbers bear out that he's been more effective. And also for whatever reason, the team is wildly better when he's on the court.

CMB is already a steady contributor on a winning team. You can't ask for more than that.

Essentially that means, you've got Scottie, Shead, Gradey, and CMB from the last five drafts. 2022 was a loss with Koloko (and some bad luck there). I think that's fine.

No it doesn't compare to the value Masai got during that 2015-2017 draft run. But that run really confused people about what is realistically likely. That is a genuinely historic draft run. There's maybe one or two other execs that have ever extracted that much value from late picks in a multi year time frame (plus UDFA signings). I mean it, you can review every teams draft history and you will not find a run like that except for when Utah got Stockton and Malone at the 16th and 13th pick in back to back drafts.

With JKW, I'm still holding out some hope. He's young and looked encouraging at times last season. I find that he's trying to do too much right now, trying to make big plays. Just keep it simple. Maybe they need to send him down to the 905 to get more reps and his confidence back up.

[raptorforlife88]

With JKW, I'm still holding out some hope. He's young and looked encouraging at times last season. I find that he's trying to do too much right now, trying to make big plays. Just keep it simple. Maybe they need to send him down to the 905 to get more reps and his confidence back up.

Yeah I noted this elsewhere, but that's the contrast between CMB and Jakobe right now. One of them is fitting into their role and playing within their limitations, and Jakobe is consistently trying to make a difficult shot, or he's trying to get a big steal when he doesn't need to. He's out of sorts for sure. I don't think he's playing at his level right now either, he was better last year for sure.

[YogurtProducer]

lol jesus, that was like 5 years ago. I mean obviously we shouldn't have but wow, we gotta get over it.

And looking back, most people were pretty happy that we traded an injury prone 28 year old for a 22 year old guy that seemed to be on the rise.

It didn't work out. Nobody predicted Powell would be this good for this long and Gary never improved.

Powell is having a really remarkable career, entering his peak in his early 30s, after being a back up role player for the first 6-7 years of his career.

It's not like Gary was a big bust for us either. He started playoff games for us, averaged 18 ppg one year. Final year, he was averaging 15 ppg on 40% from 3. We just ended up not having room for him on the roster. He's no Norm but he's still a solid rotation player for the Bucks.

And im taking GTJ at 3.6M over Norm at 20.5M tbh

I know people **** on GTJ - but he would be great on this team right now in the Dick role, mostly cause he would actually splash he open looks

[YogurtProducer]

Never should have traded Norm for Gary.

lol jesus, that was like 5 years ago. I mean obviously we shouldn't have but wow, we gotta get over it.

And looking back, most people were pretty happy that we traded an injury prone 28 year old for a 22 year old guy that seemed to be on the rise.

It didn't work out. Nobody predicted Powell would be this good for this long and Gary never improved.

Powell is having a really remarkable career, entering his peak in his early 30s, after being a back up role player for the first 6-7 years of his career.

Yeah, the Norm for GTJ trade was just good process that did not work out. Any team tanking a season is trading their expiring UFA for an expiring RFA when the perception at the time was they were not significantly different talent wise