Detroit Looking for Upgrades

[Klomp]

But if Minny was actually shipping Randle and for futures(or trying some complicated 3 team thing) then this is where Detroit should look first, not AD or Lauri.

Interesting point -- I had not thought of Randle on DET, but it is appealing to me

For context, I moved TC's quote above to this thread about DET looking for upgrades, and am also re-quoting the first post itt which lays out DET needs:

There’s some Detroit action in here from folks, but I thought I’d spell out what the team really needs and is really willing to move.

Needs/Potential Upgrades:

Capable to good backup PG (rather urgent)
Upgrade at the starting PF spot (not urgent)
Upgrade at the starting SG spot (speculative, by me)
Bench shooting (urgency unknown, because of Ivey’s slow return and Beasley in legal limbo)

Spoiler:

The biggest issue is we don’t have a backup PG, unless you really believe in Daniss Jenkins, which seems too risky. Ivey is hurt, but not a PG. Sasser is hurt, but not a PG. We’re making do with Jenkins, Ausar and Caris, but that’s inexperience, non-shooter, and doesn’t really run the offense respectively.

There’s talk about getting in on Lauri or JJJ, but I have no idea if the FO is ready yet to commit the kind of trade assets it would take to pry either loose. Are there other options out there, maybe that aren’t good enough to supplant Tobias yet, but that could provide quality bench minutes? Shooters preferred.

The SG thing is just me speculating. It’s Ivey’s job if he can get healthy, but we’ll need to see what the defense looks like with him out there. It’s been much shakier in the past, and this team is built on defense, rebounding and running in transition. Holland may have a claim on the spot long term, but that’s still up in the air, too. Beasley would sure help, but who knows. Are there guys out there to start at SG now that fit? Duncan Robinson is fine, we need the shooting, but again, bad defense.

Available/Not Available:

We obviously aren’t trading Cade. We aren’t trading Stewart, either. Duren seems very unlikely, given how the season is going. I doubt Ausar is available, but I can’t be entirely sure of that. He’s such an odd player.

I love Holland, but I have to think he’s available in a bigger deal. Ivey seems like he’d be available, as rough as that is, because the team has done so well in his absence. We have all our first round picks and some extra future seconds, certainly available in right trade. Salary filler in another month includes Robinson (basically an expiring), LeVert (one more year), and Tobias if we’re getting a better PF. You can also include Sasser, Reed and Lanier, I suppose.

What’s out there?

My view:
I'm not really interested in PF upgrades in DET at all until and unless the glaring hole at backup PG is addressed. I feel like we cover the non-Cade minutes with scotch tape and string, and I just don't think what we are doing in the non-Cade minutes is sustainable. Another factor is that, while current-day Tobias is a non-star, he works really well with DET's current roster and provides a ton of intangibles.

That said, if we address our issues at G, I agree that Randle would be an excellent upgrade on Harris, and a promising fit from a playing style perspective. Randle is a substantially better player (duh!) than Harris and is on a contract with 2 more years after this season at 20% of the cap -- which would leave us enough financial room in the summer to make decisions on the Duren and Ivey extensions without leaping into the tax world next season.

I also agree that Randle is a far better target than AD or Markkahanen. As for Siakam, I'd have to feel like we had completely resolved our guard issues because he costs 30% of the cap. (Siakam is a better player than Randle, but Randle is a better value/fit.) I feel like I have to care about the money because I have no idea if our ownership will actually pay luxury tax before we've won a single playoff series, and Pascal is paid enough so means we'd be a tax-paying team next season, or maybe even this season, which risks owner HGores blowing up a promising young team because they got too aggressive too soon.

Obviously, MIN does not want what DET would be offering: expiring filler (Harris @ $26.6M), some financial relief, FRPs. Now the easy part: find a third team that is willing to offer up the startign PG that MIN needs for the draft compensation that DET would be willing to give up.

I think Ivey makes a lot of sense for Minnesota, but he doesn't make sense as the headliner in a Randle trade. I agree, finding a mutually beneficial idea is tricky.

[tmorgan]

I don’t want to make Randle unhappy. He should stay in Minnesota, he’s killing it.

[Slim Tubby]

But if Minny was actually shipping Randle and for futures(or trying some complicated 3 team thing) then this is where Detroit should look first, not AD or Lauri.

Interesting point -- I had not thought of Randle on DET, but it is appealing to me

For context, I moved TC's quote above to this thread about DET looking for upgrades, and am also re-quoting the first post itt which lays out DET needs:

There’s some Detroit action in here from folks, but I thought I’d spell out what the team really needs and is really willing to move.

Needs/Potential Upgrades:

Capable to good backup PG (rather urgent)
Upgrade at the starting PF spot (not urgent)
Upgrade at the starting SG spot (speculative, by me)
Bench shooting (urgency unknown, because of Ivey’s slow return and Beasley in legal limbo)

Spoiler:

The biggest issue is we don’t have a backup PG, unless you really believe in Daniss Jenkins, which seems too risky. Ivey is hurt, but not a PG. Sasser is hurt, but not a PG. We’re making do with Jenkins, Ausar and Caris, but that’s inexperience, non-shooter, and doesn’t really run the offense respectively.

There’s talk about getting in on Lauri or JJJ, but I have no idea if the FO is ready yet to commit the kind of trade assets it would take to pry either loose. Are there other options out there, maybe that aren’t good enough to supplant Tobias yet, but that could provide quality bench minutes? Shooters preferred.

The SG thing is just me speculating. It’s Ivey’s job if he can get healthy, but we’ll need to see what the defense looks like with him out there. It’s been much shakier in the past, and this team is built on defense, rebounding and running in transition. Holland may have a claim on the spot long term, but that’s still up in the air, too. Beasley would sure help, but who knows. Are there guys out there to start at SG now that fit? Duncan Robinson is fine, we need the shooting, but again, bad defense.

Available/Not Available:

We obviously aren’t trading Cade. We aren’t trading Stewart, either. Duren seems very unlikely, given how the season is going. I doubt Ausar is available, but I can’t be entirely sure of that. He’s such an odd player.

I love Holland, but I have to think he’s available in a bigger deal. Ivey seems like he’d be available, as rough as that is, because the team has done so well in his absence. We have all our first round picks and some extra future seconds, certainly available in right trade. Salary filler in another month includes Robinson (basically an expiring), LeVert (one more year), and Tobias if we’re getting a better PF. You can also include Sasser, Reed and Lanier, I suppose.

What’s out there?

My view:
I'm not really interested in PF upgrades in DET at all until and unless the glaring hole at backup PG is addressed. I feel like we cover the non-Cade minutes with scotch tape and string, and I just don't think what we are doing in the non-Cade minutes is sustainable. Another factor is that, while current-day Tobias is a non-star, he works really well with DET's current roster and provides a ton of intangibles.

That said, if we address our issues at G, I agree that Randle would be an excellent upgrade on Harris, and a promising fit from a playing style perspective. Randle is a substantially better player (duh!) than Harris and is on a contract with 2 more years after this season at 20% of the cap -- which would leave us enough financial room in the summer to make decisions on the Duren and Ivey extensions without leaping into the tax world next season.

I also agree that Randle is a far better target than AD or Markkahanen. As for Siakam, I'd have to feel like we had completely resolved our guard issues because he costs 30% of the cap. (Siakam is a better player than Randle, but Randle is a better value/fit.) I feel like I have to care about the money because I have no idea if our ownership will actually pay luxury tax before we've won a single playoff series, and Pascal is paid enough so means we'd be a tax-paying team next season, or maybe even this season, which risks owner HGores blowing up a promising young team because they got too aggressive too soon.

Obviously, MIN does not want what DET would be offering: expiring filler (Harris @ $26.6M), some financial relief, FRPs. Now the easy part: find a third team that is willing to offer up the startign PG that MIN needs for the draft compensation that DET would be willing to give up.

I think Ivey makes a lot of sense for Minnesota, but he doesn't make sense as the headliner in a Randle trade. I agree, finding a mutually beneficial idea is tricky.

This is exactly where I'm at with this. Randle would be a tremendous upgrade for them at PF although it appears they are playing Beef Stew and Duren together with some success.

I really like Ivey's untapped potential, and clearly we need a PG to grow with Ant, but he isn't enough in standalone value as the primary part of the return.

I would want Duren but that makes zero sense for DET to trade a young piece for 31 year old Randle as they continue to build around Cade.

I adopted DET last year as my EC team to cheer for and it will be fun to see them grow as a young team.

Sent from my G54 using RealGM mobile app

[Mr Swagtastic]

I wonder what it'd take to get Lou Dort. OKC has a roster crunch and are going to have to move on from someone at some point. If Dort is the odd man out, I'd love to scoop him up for the right price.

I can't see OKC breaking up their team for anything less then a superstar that wants out. Not saying Dort headlines it but he's a nice piece to start with.

Like something around Chet plus Dort for Giannis years s what OKC should be looking at

[tmorgan]

If Minnesota could make Ivey into a real PG, more power to them, but that’s wishcasting to me. I don’t see the fit. Ivey is basically a mediocre version of Ant.

[vege]

Detroit alread solved the backup PG. We got Daniss Jenkins, he has been better than Dennis Schröder, so thank you very much Sacramento.

Randle does not fit in Detroit. Detroit are winning because they play team ball and play super hard on defense. Randle is none of that. He is talented sure, talent upgrade for sure as well but he does not fit the team or the culture.

Between Stew excellent play next to Duren, JaVonte Green unexpected explosion when given a bigger role and minutes and Tobias coming back, we're likely fine at PF.

Ron is the only disapointment so far in this run, his defense is insane, his offense is rough.

BB Paul looking like a legit playoff rotation center help Stewart get minutes at PF.

All we need is more shooting, if we get Ivey back and shooting north of 40% again, and if/when we get Beasley back we're good.

Ausar and especially Duren are going to be expensive. Ivey and/or Ron might be the odd man out.

Detroit will need cheap talent, like Trey Murphy.

[Klomp]

So moving on from the Julius Randle idea.....Jaden Ivey for Donte DiVincenzo?

[A_dub06]

What would be the Langdon's offer to get Murphy from the Pels? Langdon drafted him, and he fits perfectly into the Pistons new team. Obviously, Pels value him highly, but maybe they consider a really big offer that helps re-stock the asset chest to rebuild around Fears and Queen.

Holland and Ivey is a salary match. How many picks does DET add there? Could even expand it to include Alvarado, another Langdon find. (One more small contract would have to be added, like Sasser).

DET gets: Murphy + Alvarado + Hawkins + Looney

NOP gets: Holland + Ivey + Robinson + Sasser + '26 DET 1st (unp.) + '27 DET swap + '28 DET 1st (unp.) + '28 DET swap + '29 1st (top-10 prot.)

Pistons make a push for being a sustainable contender, pushing some chips in to get a great fitting core player on their timeline, Murphy. They also get a backup energy PG to help give Cade a rest during the regular season. Maybe Hawkins can be elevated in this new system.

Pels pivot to rebuilding around their young core Fears and Queen. With Zion's trade value tanked, they take the opportunity to reset with trading Murphy. Holland brings the toughness and potential at the wing, Ivey could be special and could be re-signed at a discount with his recent stretch of injuries. Robinson gives a mostly expiring contract who can help get a few more wins this year. The focus is the future picks, which could be low-value with how young and good the Pistons are. But it's worth a swing.

Duren/ Stewart/ Looney
Harris/ Reed/ Klintman
Ausar/ J.Green
Murphy/ LeVert/ Hawkins
Cade/ Alvarado/ Lanier

Queen/ Missi/ Jordan
(Zion)/ Bey/ Matkovic
Herb/ Holland/ Robinson
(Poole)/ Ivey/ Peavey
(Murray)/ Fears/ Sasser

Correct me if I’m wrong but you are proposing that the cost for Murphy is Holland, Ivey, 3x 1st round picks and swap right for 2 1sts? I’m sorry, but do you think Murphy is Giannis or something? He’s not even an all-star, and you think 3x 1sts and swap right on 2 picks is a valid proposition when you’re getting Holland and Ivey? This is delusion in its finest form!

[YayBasketball]

What would be the Langdon's offer to get Murphy from the Pels? Langdon drafted him, and he fits perfectly into the Pistons new team. Obviously, Pels value him highly, but maybe they consider a really big offer that helps re-stock the asset chest to rebuild around Fears and Queen.

Holland and Ivey is a salary match. How many picks does DET add there? Could even expand it to include Alvarado, another Langdon find. (One more small contract would have to be added, like Sasser).

DET gets: Murphy + Alvarado + Hawkins + Looney

NOP gets: Holland + Ivey + Robinson + Sasser + '26 DET 1st (unp.) + '27 DET swap + '28 DET 1st (unp.) + '28 DET swap + '29 1st (top-10 prot.)

Pistons make a push for being a sustainable contender, pushing some chips in to get a great fitting core player on their timeline, Murphy. They also get a backup energy PG to help give Cade a rest during the regular season. Maybe Hawkins can be elevated in this new system.

Pels pivot to rebuilding around their young core Fears and Queen. With Zion's trade value tanked, they take the opportunity to reset with trading Murphy. Holland brings the toughness and potential at the wing, Ivey could be special and could be re-signed at a discount with his recent stretch of injuries. Robinson gives a mostly expiring contract who can help get a few more wins this year. The focus is the future picks, which could be low-value with how young and good the Pistons are. But it's worth a swing.

Duren/ Stewart/ Looney
Harris/ Reed/ Klintman
Ausar/ J.Green
Murphy/ LeVert/ Hawkins
Cade/ Alvarado/ Lanier

Queen/ Missi/ Jordan
(Zion)/ Bey/ Matkovic
Herb/ Holland/ Robinson
(Poole)/ Ivey/ Peavey
(Murray)/ Fears/ Sasser

Correct me if I’m wrong but you are proposing that the cost for Murphy is Holland, Ivey, 3x 1st round picks and swap right for 2 1sts? I’m sorry, but do you think Murphy is Giannis or something? He’s not even an all-star, and you think 3x 1sts and swap right on 2 picks is a valid proposition when you’re getting Holland and Ivey? This is delusion in its finest form!

No need to be sorry. Yes, I think he's Giannis or something. Duren isn't an all-star either and his value is high now. Its like Pistons lengend Thomas Thorpe said: "Genius appears as delusion to average minds."

[Skybox]

I like the idea of Murphy or Jones from NOLA...I'd dangle Ivey, filler, and a frp for Murphy...or maybe similar for Jones and Alvarado.

NOLA could really use a frp or two and some hope. If I'm NOLA I'm shopping Herb but hanging on to Murphy - who seems to be the only thing going well down there.

Both of those guys are very complementary wings and it would be a total commitment to building around Cade...which is correct. Just like Iverson - commit to the idea that you're going as far as he'll take you rather than try to find another star to put next to him and confuse things. I love what DET is doing and I hope they can keep it together with Duren playing himself into stupid money. I'm a big fan of Duren's but I hope his agent gets that there's a lot of magic going on between him and Cade that might not be easily replicated if money drives DET into deep water.

[Wolveswin]

I think something around this for Pistons…

To Pistons: Siakam/Alvarado/Mathurin

To Pacers: Zion/Murphy/Pistons 1st

To Pels: Tobias/Holland/Robinson/2x Pistons 1sts

Pistons get Siakam/Mathurin for win-now efforts and backup PG.

Pacers let Zion come back very slow and develop in a year to save his career in Indy. If Zion can be saved, Hali comes back to exciting team - including top 3 pick.

Pels reboot and reload.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think something around this for Pistons…

To Pistons: Siakam/Alvarado/Mathurin

To Pacers: Zion/Murphy/Pistons 1st

To Pels: Tobias/Holland/Robinson/2x Pistons 1sts

Pistons get Siakam/Mathurin for win-now efforts and backup PG.

Pacers let Zion come back very slow and develop in a year to save his career in Indy. If Zion can be saved, Hali comes back to exciting team - including top 3 pick.

Pels reboot and reload.

I genuinely don't think that Indy could be the team to trade for Zion, at a non-discounted price, and keep. The lawsuit this past May/June was probably a bridge too far. I think they just refuse to take him on right now?

And dealing Siakam/Mathurin to a division rival is probably another tough argument to make.

[oldncreaky]

So moving on from the Julius Randle idea.....Jaden Ivey for Donte DiVincenzo?

Fair-ish value, but I don't see it for either team.

They essentially play the same position. DDV is the mature version of what Ivey might well become, although Ivey still has some untapped potential that may or may not work out. But despite Ivey's potential, he is worse than DDV right now, and in particular, we are yet to see a version of Ivey that addresses the PG hole that MIN has -- and if we do see that from Ivey, DET will want to hang on to him.

[enzino]

pritchard for a good pick?

[Klomp]

So moving on from the Julius Randle idea.....Jaden Ivey for Donte DiVincenzo?

Fair-ish value, but I don't see it for either team.

They essentially play the same position. DDV is the mature version of what Ivey might well become, although Ivey still has some untapped potential that may or may not work out. But despite Ivey's potential, he is worse than DDV right now, and in particular, we are yet to see a version of Ivey that addresses the PG hole that MIN has -- and if we do see that from Ivey, DET will want to hang on to him.

The key reason for Detroit is the shooting upgrade, unless the Pistons are trying to wait until the Malik Beasley situation works itself out. DiVincenzo also embodies the toughness the Detroit fan base would love.

For Minnesota, I understand it's taking a risk somewhat. You are right, Jaden Ivey is not a traditional PG to fill a traditional PG hole. However, Chris Finch really doesn't rely on a traditional PG to run his offense. That's why I'm personally willing to take a chance and hope that his potential comes to fruition. It's taking a chance on talent.

[theBigLip]

pritchard for a good pick?

I would have said yes two weeks ago but Jenkins is looking like a quality backup pg that is very inexpensive

[tmorgan]

So moving on from the Julius Randle idea.....Jaden Ivey for Donte DiVincenzo?

Fair-ish value, but I don't see it for either team.

They essentially play the same position. DDV is the mature version of what Ivey might well become, although Ivey still has some untapped potential that may or may not work out. But despite Ivey's potential, he is worse than DDV right now, and in particular, we are yet to see a version of Ivey that addresses the PG hole that MIN has -- and if we do see that from Ivey, DET will want to hang on to him.

I’m a big DDV fan, and he’s definitely a fit in terms of a skills and mindset.

Still reluctant to give up on Ivey, but this is tempting. I wish Donte was locked up longer on that nice contract, but he does still have one more cheap year that Ivey isn’t going to have.

Very tempting.

[A_dub06]

DET gets: Murphy + Alvarado + Hawkins + Looney

NOP gets: Holland + Ivey + Robinson + Sasser + '26 DET 1st (unp.) + '27 DET swap + '28 DET 1st (unp.) + '28 DET swap + '29 1st (top-10 prot.)

Pistons make a push for being a sustainable contender, pushing some chips in to get a great fitting core player on their timeline, Murphy. They also get a backup energy PG to help give Cade a rest during the regular season. Maybe Hawkins can be elevated in this new system.

Pels pivot to rebuilding around their young core Fears and Queen. With Zion's trade value tanked, they take the opportunity to reset with trading Murphy. Holland brings the toughness and potential at the wing, Ivey could be special and could be re-signed at a discount with his recent stretch of injuries. Robinson gives a mostly expiring contract who can help get a few more wins this year. The focus is the future picks, which could be low-value with how young and good the Pistons are. But it's worth a swing.

Duren/ Stewart/ Looney
Harris/ Reed/ Klintman
Ausar/ J.Green
Murphy/ LeVert/ Hawkins
Cade/ Alvarado/ Lanier

Queen/ Missi/ Jordan
(Zion)/ Bey/ Matkovic
Herb/ Holland/ Robinson
(Poole)/ Ivey/ Peavey
(Murray)/ Fears/ Sasser

Correct me if I’m wrong but you are proposing that the cost for Murphy is Holland, Ivey, 3x 1st round picks and swap right for 2 1sts? I’m sorry, but do you think Murphy is Giannis or something? He’s not even an all-star, and you think 3x 1sts and swap right on 2 picks is a valid proposition when you’re getting Holland and Ivey? This is delusion in its finest form!

No need to be sorry. Yes, I think he's Giannis or something. Duren isn't an all-star either and his value is high now. Its like Pistons lengend Thomas Thorpe said: "Genius appears as delusion to average minds."

I don’t need bubble wrap regarding Duren, imo he is having an insane stretch which also coincides with multiple starters out so he’s had ample opportunity and to his credit has stepped up. But just because he’s playing out of his mind doesn’t make me think opposing teams should literally bankrupt themselves if they trade for him for the next 5 years in order to obtain him, that would be insanity.

Murphy is like the absolute best role player you could ever ask for, and he’s 25. Not saying he’s old but you’re treating him like he’s an established all-star that’s still super young and he’s just not. The Pels unfortunately aren’t playing for anything meaningful and we’ve never seen Murphy contribute to a winning team or at least on a strong team, so what’s to say he’s not having the MPJ effect? Now I don’t think that’s the case with Murphy, but what evidence is there to prove he’s not to mad him worthy of that package?

Speaking objectively here, if we offered the bucks the same package you suggest for Giannis and only included Ivey and a filler I wouldn’t be surprised if they accepted it, that’s a godfather offer and would actually be in the world of being acceptable. There is zero chance that’s the offer that would be needed to satisfy NOR’s ownership. And the funny thing is, Weaver was the Pistons gm prior so as a pistons fan I’m completely used to his lunacy and most likely it would take 1-2 projects he loves (he drafted Ivey) and maybe first. He was never good at maximising value out of anything and at best would only receive average compensation. So not only are you unrealistic from an actually value point of view, but you’re specifically unrealistic when considering your own team

[A_dub06]

I think something around this for Pistons…

To Pistons: Siakam/Alvarado/Mathurin

To Pacers: Zion/Murphy/Pistons 1st

To Pels: Tobias/Holland/Robinson/2x Pistons 1sts

Pistons get Siakam/Mathurin for win-now efforts and backup PG.

Pacers let Zion come back very slow and develop in a year to save his career in Indy. If Zion can be saved, Hali comes back to exciting team - including top 3 pick.

Pels reboot and reload.

Personally I prefer Murphy over Siakam at this point, and if we are getting Mathurin that would mean Thompson is going to the bench which I’m not a fan of.

Also seems like the Pistons are giving up too many firsts in this trade considering Zion is a negative asset and that’s not the pistons job to compensate

[vege]

Yeah I think it's pretty safe to say we're good at the backup PG spot.

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