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winforlose wrote:shrink wrote:I doubt it would happen, but I’d love to see Jaylin Clark start against the Nuggets, and for us to show Jamal Murray that MIN is back and is going to give him 48 minutes of hell, rotating Clark, then Ant, then Jaden on him.
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The 2 non shooters together is tough. Rudy and Clark put a ton of pressure on the other 3 to carry the offense.
BlacJacMac wrote:When Minnesota tried to lean on Reid and Randle for its offense in the fourth quarter Saturday against Denver, with Clark on the bench, the Nuggets picked Minnesota’s defense apart while scoring 36 points in the final frame.
Since Oct. 26, the Randle-Reid combination has allowed 118 points per 100 possessions — a rough number.
But when Clark joins them on the floor, that dips to 106.3, which would equal the second-best defense in the NBA, behind only Oklahoma City.
Clark, 24, leads the team in defensive rating, with Minnesota surrendering just 103.3 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the floor — just a tenth of a point off the Thunder’s team-wide pace, and fifth-best among non-Thunder players across the league — despite playing 39% of his minutes this season with the previously leaky Randle-Reid pairing.
It has commonly been stated that Gobert is a top-five defense unto himself. The data suggest Clark is entering the same realm.
Clark is fourth in the NBA in defensive field-goal percentage among guys who have played at least 10 games, with opponents he’s guarding shooting 36.4% from the floor. His estimated defensive plus-minus, per dunksandthrees.com, is plus-1.4, which ranks in the 93rd percentile in the league, just ahead of the likes of Jrue Holiday and Nickeil Alexander-Walker.
https://www.twincities.com/2025/11/19/is-timberwolves-guard-jaylen-clark-a-defensive-superstar/
BlacJacMac wrote:When Minnesota tried to lean on Reid and Randle for its offense in the fourth quarter Saturday against Denver, with Clark on the bench, the Nuggets picked Minnesota’s defense apart while scoring 36 points in the final frame.
Since Oct. 26, the Randle-Reid combination has allowed 118 points per 100 possessions — a rough number.
But when Clark joins them on the floor, that dips to 106.3, which would equal the second-best defense in the NBA, behind only Oklahoma City.
Clark, 24, leads the team in defensive rating, with Minnesota surrendering just 103.3 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the floor — just a tenth of a point off the Thunder’s team-wide pace, and fifth-best among non-Thunder players across the league — despite playing 39% of his minutes this season with the previously leaky Randle-Reid pairing.
It has commonly been stated that Gobert is a top-five defense unto himself. The data suggest Clark is entering the same realm.
Clark is fourth in the NBA in defensive field-goal percentage among guys who have played at least 10 games, with opponents he’s guarding shooting 36.4% from the floor. His estimated defensive plus-minus, per dunksandthrees.com, is plus-1.4, which ranks in the 93rd percentile in the league, just ahead of the likes of Jrue Holiday and Nickeil Alexander-Walker.
https://www.twincities.com/2025/11/19/is-timberwolves-guard-jaylen-clark-a-defensive-superstar/
winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
minimus wrote:winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
He is hitting threes 36%, his 3PA rate .478 (higher than Edwards/Randle/McDaniels), he is fourth in FT rate at .348 after Gobert/Randle/Edwards. Randle BTW lead NBA in and1s. His USG% is 12.4, in rotation lower USG have only Conley and Gobert.
Also you can have MIA type of system where everyone can do a bit of everything, but no real offensive superstar. Or you can have HOU type of system where they constantly play with two non shooters with guys such as Sengun and KD doing a lot of heavylifting in offense. So as long as MIN have Edwards/Randle/Reid there is always plays for high IQ low usage 3&D such as Clark. Sure, he is a limited offensive player, but he is FAR from being Josh Okogie in offense. And this level of defence Clark defense is by itself a high end offense.
winforlose wrote:minimus wrote:winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
He is hitting threes 36%, his 3PA rate .478 (higher than Edwards/Randle/McDaniels), he is fourth in FT rate at .348 after Gobert/Randle/Edwards. Randle BTW lead NBA in and1s. His USG% is 12.4, in rotation lower USG have only Conley and Gobert.
Also you can have MIA type of system where everyone can do a bit of everything, but no real offensive superstar. Or you can have HOU type of system where they constantly play with two non shooters with guys such as Sengun and KD doing a lot of heavylifting in offense. So as long as MIN have Edwards/Randle/Reid there is always plays for high IQ low usage 3&D such as Clark. Sure, he is a limited offensive player, but he is FAR from being Josh Okogie in offense. And this level of defence Clark defense is by itself a high end offense.
His 2.4 rebounds are nice relative to his playtime and position, but he is an undersized SF rather than a guard.
winforlose wrote:minimus wrote:winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
He is hitting threes 36%, his 3PA rate .478 (higher than Edwards/Randle/McDaniels), he is fourth in FT rate at .348 after Gobert/Randle/Edwards. Randle BTW lead NBA in and1s. His USG% is 12.4, in rotation lower USG have only Conley and Gobert.
Also you can have MIA type of system where everyone can do a bit of everything, but no real offensive superstar. Or you can have HOU type of system where they constantly play with two non shooters with guys such as Sengun and KD doing a lot of heavylifting in offense. So as long as MIN have Edwards/Randle/Reid there is always plays for high IQ low usage 3&D such as Clark. Sure, he is a limited offensive player, but he is FAR from being Josh Okogie in offense. And this level of defence Clark defense is by itself a high end offense.
He had 1 game where he hit 3 of 4 from deep. Exclude that game and he has 0 games with 2 or more and as many games without a make as he does with 1. The low volume is also troubling given the amount of time he spends unguarded in the corner. He has 2 games with more than 2 FTA attempts and plenty with 0. His make rate is 10/16 or 62.5%. Clark averages less than 1 assist per game. His 2.4 rebounds are nice relative to his playtime and position, but he is an undersized SF rather than a guard. 5 points on 3.8 shots per game would be fine if his presence wasn’t always causing Ant or Randle or Naz to be doubled.
winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
OFF RTG
132.7 Mike Conley
129.6 Julius Randle
128.3 Rudy Gobert
124.3 Donte DiVincenzo
121.8 Jaden McDaniels
121.3 Jaylen Clark
117.5 Anthony Edwards
112.6 Naz Reid
shrink wrote:winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
It may make you feel better if you look at the data, and see that the team’s offense has been very good with Clark on the floor. I think “5-on-4” is more of your own perceptions rather than reality.OFF RTG
132.7 Mike Conley
129.6 Julius Randle
128.3 Rudy Gobert
124.3 Donte DiVincenzo
121.8 Jaden McDaniels
121.3 Jaylen Clark
117.5 Anthony Edwards
112.6 Naz Reid
Clark’s numbers are striking since he plays a lot more minutes with the bench/deep bench than the other guys on this list. Said differently, it doesn’t matter if you subjectively label a team as playing 5-on-5, 5-on-4 or 5-on-1, if the objective data shows that your team is producing offensively.
As an aside, this reminds me of what Chris Finch said on the Zach Lowe Show about Jaden’s big leap in offense this year. He said that Jaden has always had this in him, but it’s simply been hard to find him shots. With high usage players in Ant and Randle, Donte’s shooting, Naz Reid, there just haven’t been enough shots for Jaden to show off what he can do, and Finch said he had to find ways to put the ball in his hands more often.
It is not a bad thing that Clark is a low usage player that will swing the ball and shoot the occasional three.
winforlose wrote:shrink wrote:winforlose wrote:So Clark is really hard for me to evaluate. On the one hand I appreciate his defensive impact every bit as much as Okogie’s or NAW’s. On the other hand I also notice he took 7 shots to score 7 points, and he is often left alone on offense. This 5 on 4 creates all kinds of opportunities for opponents to make everyone else’s life difficult. I do believe there is a role for players like him in the NBA and on playoff teams. But I also worry that in the playoffs players like this cannot play with other non shooters. I wish he could hit wide open 3s at a higher clip. Ultimately I think he has a lot of work to do before April.
It may make you feel better if you look at the data, and see that the team’s offense has been very good with Clark on the floor. I think “5-on-4” is more of your own perceptions rather than reality.OFF RTG
132.7 Mike Conley
129.6 Julius Randle
128.3 Rudy Gobert
124.3 Donte DiVincenzo
121.8 Jaden McDaniels
121.3 Jaylen Clark
117.5 Anthony Edwards
112.6 Naz Reid
Clark’s numbers are striking since he plays a lot more minutes with the bench/deep bench than the other guys on this list. Said differently, it doesn’t matter if you subjectively label a team as playing 5-on-5, 5-on-4 or 5-on-1, if the objective data shows that your team is producing offensively.
As an aside, this reminds me of what Chris Finch said on the Zach Lowe Show about Jaden’s big leap in offense this year. He said that Jaden has always had this in him, but it’s simply been hard to find him shots. With high usage players in Ant and Randle, Donte’s shooting, Naz Reid, there just haven’t been enough shots for Jaden to show off what he can do, and Finch said he had to find ways to put the ball in his hands more often.
It is not a bad thing that Clark is a low usage player that will swing the ball and shoot the occasional three.
This is responding to Minimus as well. KG your comment is a subjective attack and will be left at that.
I began by saying I struggle to assess Clark because I understand his defensive value. I have already stated his is a specialist role that does have value. But I do watch the games and see opponents refuse to guard him. The Denver game being a great example where Jokic would rest on defense and clog the paint. I fear that Clark must be able to hit the wide open 3s that result from this consistently enough to force a defender to cover him. If not, the paint will always remain congested with Clark on the floor. This is the Rudy effect in reverse. When Rudy is on the floor nobody wants to attack the paint. Players still do, but at a lower rate than when he is off. This results typically in more jump shots, 3s, and contested paint shots. In other words when Rudy is on the floor opponents take harder, lower percentage shots. I fear come playoff time the effect of ignoring Clark to clamp down on the paint will do the same to us. This is why I said Clark must improve aspects of his game before April. I am not trying to rag on the kid, I am expressing the same concern that we all did when JO was a wolf. NAW was good enough from deep to always command a defender, that is why the 3&D is so much more valuable then just the defensive specialist. That is my entire point.
frankenwolf wrote:winforlose wrote:shrink wrote:It may make you feel better if you look at the data, and see that the team’s offense has been very good with Clark on the floor. I think “5-on-4” is more of your own perceptions rather than reality.
Clark’s numbers are striking since he plays a lot more minutes with the bench/deep bench than the other guys on this list. Said differently, it doesn’t matter if you subjectively label a team as playing 5-on-5, 5-on-4 or 5-on-1, if the objective data shows that your team is producing offensively.
As an aside, this reminds me of what Chris Finch said on the Zach Lowe Show about Jaden’s big leap in offense this year. He said that Jaden has always had this in him, but it’s simply been hard to find him shots. With high usage players in Ant and Randle, Donte’s shooting, Naz Reid, there just haven’t been enough shots for Jaden to show off what he can do, and Finch said he had to find ways to put the ball in his hands more often.
It is not a bad thing that Clark is a low usage player that will swing the ball and shoot the occasional three.
This is responding to Minimus as well. KG your comment is a subjective attack and will be left at that.
I began by saying I struggle to assess Clark because I understand his defensive value. I have already stated his is a specialist role that does have value. But I do watch the games and see opponents refuse to guard him. The Denver game being a great example where Jokic would rest on defense and clog the paint. I fear that Clark must be able to hit the wide open 3s that result from this consistently enough to force a defender to cover him. If not, the paint will always remain congested with Clark on the floor. This is the Rudy effect in reverse. When Rudy is on the floor nobody wants to attack the paint. Players still do, but at a lower rate than when he is off. This results typically in more jump shots, 3s, and contested paint shots. In other words when Rudy is on the floor opponents take harder, lower percentage shots. I fear come playoff time the effect of ignoring Clark to clamp down on the paint will do the same to us. This is why I said Clark must improve aspects of his game before April. I am not trying to rag on the kid, I am expressing the same concern that we all did when JO was a wolf. NAW was good enough from deep to always command a defender, that is why the 3&D is so much more valuable then just the defensive specialist. That is my entire point.
Basically, Jaylen needs to shoot more 3's and keep his percentage around the 36% he is currently shooting. He then would be more valuable. While Jaden is out, it would behoove Jalen to play like Jaden was.
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