Are people lower on Cooper Flagg?

[LockoutSeason]

Yep i said "And yes i know LeBron played in a different era" but looks like he's going to have a better rookie season than LeBron statistically.
Cooper averaging more fg% .455 vs. LeBron .417
Cooper averaging more ft% .783 vs. LeBron .754
Cooper averaging more rebounds 6.3 vs. LeBron 5.5
Cooper averaging less turnovers 2.2 vs. LeBron 3.5

And the 3pt%, steals and blocks are all a wash!!
LeBron still leads in scoring and assists, but i think Cooper can get to 4.0 or 4.5 assists so LeBron still will lead that but not a blowout!
And Cooper's scoring is currently 15.5 and trending up, so might get close to LeBron's 20.9, or at least get to 18ppg...

So not saying Cooper will have a better rookie season than LeBron, but in raw stats it will be close if my calculations are correct.

Nope.

In 2003/04 season, LeBron was:

13th in points per game
13th in assists per game
36th in VORP
56th in BPM
-2.4 rTS scorer

This is basically an equivalent of 24-6 on 56TS% on heavy minutes in today's game. If you believe that currently a talent pool is much better, you can adjust it whatever you want, but it doesn't make too much sense to compare raw stats of a player from 2004 to the player from 2026, considering that 2004 was the lowest offensive point of the NBA in the XXI century (102.9 ORTG avg). Kobe in 2004 was 5th in the MVP voting and averaged 24-6-5 on 55TS%, so it should put into perspective what LeBron's 21-6-6 on 49TS% really meant at that time.

Flagg, expectedly, is nowhere near LeBron as an 18/19yo.

Why are you comparing LeBron’s entire rookie season to Cooper’s first 15 games?

In LeBron’s first 15 games he averaged 17PPG on 41% shooting. If LeBron came in as a rookie in today’s era people would call him a disappointment after 15 games too.

[The Master]

Thank you for posting that. Does it factor in that Lebron played almost 6 more minutes per game than Flagg is?

Stars overall played heavy minutes at that time, so LeBron being 10th in minutes per game is just another example how big load as a team leader he carried straight from high school, and not necessarily an argument in favor of Flagg considering he plays on a pretty bad team so far.

But it is just an unfair comparison for Flagg - LeBron in his 2nd season (in similar age to most rookies in one and done era) averaged 27-7-7 on +3 rTS, Luka being one month younger than 2nd year LeBron as a rookie averaged 21-8-6 on -1 rTS despite being an acclaimed European pro, this is how much ahead of the curve was LeBron as a prospect. And obviously Luka on his own was a superstar in his 2nd year.

You should compare Flagg to many players who went to the NBA straight from high school, age wise, or to Giannis, other than LeBron. And it will display that as rough as Flagg's start to the NBA career is, it's nothing extraordinary even for all-time great players or talents. He's just super young.

[The Master]

Why are you comparing LeBron’s entire rookie season to Cooper’s first 15 games?

In LeBron’s first 15 games he was average 17PPG on 41% shooting. If LeBron came in as a rookie in today’s era people would call him a disappointment after 15 games too.

Well, I'm just saying that rookie LeBron was quite inefficient on a pretty mediocre team, but he played on all-star volume for his era, also, he played in an era where average TS% was 7% lower than this season so far. Comparing raw boxscore numbers or FG% like the user I replied to just doesn't make sense. 49 TS% may look bad without a context, but it is 'only' -2 rTS. 21 PPG is nothing spectacular, but we had only 12 players averaging more that season.

If the other poster's argument was 'hey, LeBron also started slowly his rookie campaign', I wouldn't probably respond, this is correct. I'm pretty sure that Flagg will improve throughout this season as well.

That being said, I don't think it is realistic or fair to compare Flagg to the greatest prospect we've seen in 50 years or so. If you compare him to T-Mac, or rookie KG, or rookie Dwight, or rookie Durant as he was also super young for one and done prospect, it will give you a different picture.

[Raps in 4]

I think he might not be an elite scorer, but he'll still have an elite overall impact. Kind of like KG, which has always been his comp.

[Duke4life831]

Ill say this when it comes to the LeBron comps. Another thing to consider is just how freakishly developed LeBron was coming into the league. The dude was 6'8 and 245 pounds as a rookie. Far less of a physical adjustment compared to Flagg.

I think if anything Durant would be the better comp. Not play style, but more time needed to adjust to the league. KD a freak in his own right as a prospect, being that tall and long and that skilled was something we havent seen before. But physically it took him some time.

KD's first 43 games: 39/28/86 shooting percentages and a 49 TS%.

And again we're talking one of the best scorers the world has ever seen. And ya the shooting numbers were different back then. But that was still sub 5% of the league average TS%. Flagg currently is sitting also at sub 5% league average. Now ya KD's usage was higher, that needs to be factored in. But KD also was nowhere near the defender Flagg is as a rookie and not much of a facilitator either.

Again long story short. Especially when guys arent freakishly already developed, it could take them half a season or multiple season to adjust. People were calling Cade Cunningham a bust after his 2nd year, the dude was All NBA last year.

[bonita_the_frog]

Yep i said "And yes i know LeBron played in a different era" but looks like he's going to have a better rookie season than LeBron statistically.
Cooper averaging more fg% .455 vs. LeBron .417
Cooper averaging more ft% .783 vs. LeBron .754
Cooper averaging more rebounds 6.3 vs. LeBron 5.5
Cooper averaging less turnovers 2.2 vs. LeBron 3.5

And the 3pt%, steals and blocks are all a wash!!
LeBron still leads in scoring and assists, but i think Cooper can get to 4.0 or 4.5 assists so LeBron still will lead that but not a blowout!
And Cooper's scoring is currently 15.5 and trending up, so might get close to LeBron's 20.9, or at least get to 18ppg...

So not saying Cooper will have a better rookie season than LeBron, but in raw stats it will be close if my calculations are correct.

Nope.

In 2003/04 season, LeBron was:

13th in points per game
13th in assists per game
36th in VORP
56th in BPM
-2.4 rTS scorer

This is basically an equivalent of 24-6 on 56TS% on heavy minutes in today's game. If you believe that currently a talent pool is much better, you can adjust it whatever you want, but it doesn't make too much sense to compare raw stats of a player from 2004 to the player from 2026, considering that 2004 was the lowest offensive point of the NBA in the XXI century (102.9 ORTG avg). Kobe in 2004 was 5th in the MVP voting and averaged 24-6-5 on 55TS%, so it should put into perspective what LeBron's 21-6-6 on 49TS% really meant at that time.

Flagg, expectedly, is nowhere near LeBron as an 18/19yo.

Why are you comparing LeBron’s entire rookie season to Cooper’s first 15 games?

In LeBron’s first 15 games he averaged 17PPG on 41% shooting. If LeBron came in as a rookie in today’s era people would call him a disappointment after 15 games too.

Plus they seemed to overlook that I said "So not saying Cooper will have a better rookie season than LeBron, but in raw stats it will be close if my calculations are correct."
LeBron's done a real number on these folks, so easily triggered even by my humble take.

[tsherkin]

But it is just an unfair comparison for Flagg - LeBron in his 2nd season (in similar age to most rookies in one and done era) averaged 27-7-7 on +3 rTS, Luka being one month younger than 2nd year LeBron as a rookie averaged 21-8-6 on -1 rTS despite being an acclaimed European pro, this is how much ahead of the curve was LeBron as a prospect. And obviously Luka on his own was a superstar in his 2nd year.

I think the whole point of this end of the discussion is that we're comparing apples to aliens right now when we compare Flagg and Lebron. There are just too many large differences. Like, it isn't fair to Flagg or Lebron, and a rookie season under less-than-ideal circumstances says only so much about any player. And that's before we look at the sample size issue.

Flagg is doing well. Lebron was a generational prospect, but he also had his struggles as a rookie.

He's young as hell right now, but he's also clearly learning quite nicely and showcasing his various tools well. He's going to be fantastic. He's already a pretty good player overall. Changing literally nothing about him but slapping him into a better roster context would show a pretty large difference in his efficacy just by itself, but he's going to keep learning and improving, for sure.

[FrodoBaggins]

delete

[FrodoBaggins]

Yep i said "And yes i know LeBron played in a different era" but looks like he's going to have a better rookie season than LeBron statistically.
Cooper averaging more fg% .455 vs. LeBron .417
Cooper averaging more ft% .783 vs. LeBron .754
Cooper averaging more rebounds 6.3 vs. LeBron 5.5
Cooper averaging less turnovers 2.2 vs. LeBron 3.5

And the 3pt%, steals and blocks are all a wash!!
LeBron still leads in scoring and assists, but i think Cooper can get to 4.0 or 4.5 assists so LeBron still will lead that but not a blowout!
And Cooper's scoring is currently 15.5 and trending up, so might get close to LeBron's 20.9, or at least get to 18ppg...

So not saying Cooper will have a better rookie season than LeBron, but in raw stats it will be close if my calculations are correct.

Nope.

In 2003/04 season, LeBron was:

13th in points per game
13th in assists per game
36th in VORP
56th in BPM
-2.4 rTS scorer

This is basically an equivalent of 24-6 on 56TS% on heavy minutes in today's game. If you believe that currently a talent pool is much better, you can adjust it whatever you want, but it doesn't make too much sense to compare raw stats of a player from 2004 to the player from 2026, considering that 2004 was the lowest offensive point of the NBA in the XXI century (102.9 ORTG avg). Kobe in 2004 was 5th in the MVP voting and averaged 24-6-5 on 55TS%, so it should put into perspective what LeBron's 21-6-6 on 49TS% really meant at that time.

Flagg, expectedly, is nowhere near LeBron as an 18/19yo.

Thank you for posting that. Does it factor in that Lebron played almost 6 more minutes per game than Flagg is?

Stars overall played heavy minutes at that time, so LeBron being 10th in minutes per game is just another example how big load as a team leader he carried straight from high school, and not necessarily an argument in favor of Flagg considering he plays on a pretty bad team so far.

But it is just an unfair comparison for Flagg - LeBron in his 2nd season (in similar age to most rookies in one and done era) averaged 27-7-7 on +3 rTS, Luka being one month younger than 2nd year LeBron as a rookie averaged 21-8-6 on -1 rTS despite being an acclaimed European pro, this is how much ahead of the curve was LeBron as a prospect. And obviously Luka on his own was a superstar in his 2nd year.

You should compare Flagg to many players who went to the NBA straight from high school, age wise, or to Giannis, other than LeBron. And it will display that as rough as Flagg's start to the NBA career is, it's nothing extraordinary even for all-time great players or talents. He's just super young.

Why are you comparing LeBron’s entire rookie season to Cooper’s first 15 games?

In LeBron’s first 15 games he was average 17PPG on 41% shooting. If LeBron came in as a rookie in today’s era people would call him a disappointment after 15 games too.

Well, I'm just saying that rookie LeBron was quite inefficient on a pretty mediocre team, but he played on all-star volume for his era, also, he played in an era where average TS% was 7% lower than this season so far. Comparing raw boxscore numbers or FG% like the user I replied to just doesn't make sense. 49 TS% may look bad without a context, but it is 'only' -2 rTS. 21 PPG is nothing spectacular, but we had only 12 players averaging more that season.

If the other poster's argument was 'hey, LeBron also started slowly his rookie campaign', I wouldn't probably respond, this is correct. I'm pretty sure that Flagg will improve throughout this season as well.

That being said, I don't think it is realistic or fair to compare Flagg to the greatest prospect we've seen in 50 years or so. If you compare him to T-Mac, or rookie KG, or rookie Dwight, or rookie Durant as he was also super young for one and done prospect, it will give you a different picture.

Thought I'd adjust the TS% to the team and the rest of the players. This may be more informative than comparing to the league average. Team environment/quality/supporting cast plays a significant role in an individual player's performance - production, impact, and ultimately value. This is reflected in the box-score statistics, as well as the advanced ones based off it.

2025-26 DAL (not including tonight's loss against NYK) currently has a 104.9 ORtg (-10.7 rORtg). 2003-04 CLE had a 101.4 ORtg (-1.5 rORtg). They're honestly not that far apart in raw terms, which tells you how historically bad this Dallas offense is. Just a terrible ecosystem for offensive statistical production.

Anyway, here's a comparison of adjusted TS% between Flagg and James:

LeBron: 48.8% TS (1694.4 TSA; 22.16% of team's TSA; 47.3% assisted, 52.7% unassisted)
Rest of team: 50.11% TS (97.4 TS+)
Team overall: 49.82% TS (98.0 TS+)

Cooper: 53.4% TS (218.24 TSA; 14.5% of team's TSA; 41.1% assisted, 58.9% unassisted)
Rest of team: 55.24% TS (96.7 TS+)
Team overall: 54.97% TS (97.1 TS+)

Glossary
TSA - True Shot Attempts
TS+ - Cooper's true shooting percentage relative to rest of team & overall team TS%

So, Cooper and LeBron are both starters and are making a similar number of unassisted FGs per game (3.53 vs. 4.16). LeBron has greater offensive primacy (+7.66% of team's TSA; +7.2% USG) and a more clearly defined role. The relative-to-supporting-cast TS% and relative-to-team TS% aren't that far off, and I'd expect it to get closer as the season progresses. I'm not sure if Flagg will get the chance to take more shots if AD and, eventually, Kyrie come back. We'll see.

But this is just offense; we're ignoring the other 50% of the game.

2025-26 DAL has a 111.5 DRtg (-4.1 rDRtg). That's a borderline elite defense that's currently ranked 4th. Although Cooper's play-by-play data (+/- per 100 poss, on-court, on-off) hasn't been good, he leads the team in minutes played (505) and defensive win shares (0.8).

I think he's been a positive driver of defensive impact; his rim protection (<6ft: 7.1 DFGA/g, -4.4%) is already a top mark for a wing/SF-PF. It was nearly -8.0% a few games ago, but it has come down a little. Small sample size and all. Still, no one's contesting as many shots at the rim on the team. He's 8th in the league for >6ft DFGA/g. I don't think that's because he's getting targeted, either.

Additionally, he's defending 1-4, proving he can't be mismatch-hunted/targeted, holding opponents to 0.39 ppp (96.1th percentile) in isolation. There's a good post displaying the variety of guys he's been effectively guarding in isolation a few pages back. Includes Harden, Booker, Siakam, Durant, Morant, etc.

I think when you contextualize Flagg & LeBron's performance with regard to circumstance, they're much closer than one would think. The 2025-26 Mavericks are a defensively-slanted team, and as such, impact & value isn't going to be as readily apparent in the box score.

[Appostis]

Dallas is doing him dirty.

[FrodoBaggins]

LeBron: 48.8% TS (1694.4 TSA; 22.16% of team's TSA; 47.3% assisted, 52.7% unassisted)
Rest of team: 50.11% TS (97.4 TS+)
Team overall: 49.82% TS (98.0 TS+)

Cooper: 53.4% TS (218.24 TSA; 14.5% of team's TSA; 41.1% assisted, 58.9% unassisted)
Rest of team: 55.24% TS (96.7 TS+)
Team overall: 54.97% TS (97.1 TS+)

Durant: 51.9% TS (1,563.12 TSA; 19.9% of team's TSA; 59.3% assisted, 40.7% unassisted)
Rest of team: 50.68%% TS (102.4 TS+)
Team overall: 50.93% TS (101.9 TS+)

Glossary
TSA - True Shot Attempts
TS+ - Cooper's true shooting percentage relative to rest of team & overall team TS%

Durant's shooting efficiency relative to his teammates is the best, but he's the worst passer of the bunch, and has the highest FGM assisted rate. As such, you can attribute more of LeBron & Cooper's teammate TS% to their playmaking. That's an assumption, and perhaps is slightly mediated by KD playing more off-ball.

This is the first 15 games versus two complete rookie seasons. I'd expect Flagg to get better as the season goes on. Something like 55-56% TS on 17-20% of team's TSA would be nice for an entire season. That volume might be generous given how Kidd's using him.

[maverick_41]

We'd better stop posting until Dallas has something that looks like a basketball team.
Any comparisons to LeBron is bit unfair. LeBron is such an outliner to almost every possible milestone.

[Appostis]

We'd better stop posting until Dallas has something that looks like a basketball team.
Any comparisons to LeBron is bit unfair. LeBron is such an outliner to almost every possible milestone.

The early Cavs teams are at least somewhat comparable.

It's possible I'm just underestimating how dysfunctional this current Mavs team is..

[Bob8]

We'd better stop posting until Dallas has something that looks like a basketball team.
Any comparisons to LeBron is bit unfair. LeBron is such an outliner to almost every possible milestone.

That basketball team was in the Finals one year ago.

[JHFVF07]

Funny how Gafford, PJ Washington and Marshall played a great role on a team that made the finals 2 years before...

[maverick_41]

We'd better stop posting until Dallas has something that looks like a basketball team.
Any comparisons to LeBron is bit unfair. LeBron is such an outliner to almost every possible milestone.

That basketball team was in the Finals one year ago.

Built around Luka and Kyrie distributing the ball and making shots.
We all miss this team every single day.

[maverick_41]

We'd better stop posting until Dallas has something that looks like a basketball team.
Any comparisons to LeBron is bit unfair. LeBron is such an outliner to almost every possible milestone.

The early Cavs teams are at least somewhat comparable.

It's possible I'm just underestimating how dysfunctional this current Mavs team is..

True. The team was brutal, but LeBron could create for others. Because he is the most gifted player of his generation.

[Appostis]

We'd better stop posting until Dallas has something that looks like a basketball team.
Any comparisons to LeBron is bit unfair. LeBron is such an outliner to almost every possible milestone.

The early Cavs teams are at least somewhat comparable.

It's possible I'm just underestimating how dysfunctional this current Mavs team is..

True. The team was brutal, but LeBron could create for others. Because he is the most gifted player of his generation.

And I think that's a fact that kinda gets downplayed.
Wemby and Jokic besides LeBron might be the only players I could see who could will whatever the Mavs to win.

[Bob8]

The early Cavs teams are at least somewhat comparable.

It's possible I'm just underestimating how dysfunctional this current Mavs team is..

True. The team was brutal, but LeBron could create for others. Because he is the most gifted player of his generation.

And I think that's a fact that kinda gets downplayed.
Wemby and Jokic besides LeBron might be the only players I could see who could will whatever the Mavs to win.

Hmm, Mavs were in the Finals 1.5 years ago with very similar team, change AD for Luka now and they would look pretty good. Flagg theoretically fits with Luka better than Kyrie, other role players are more or less the same.

Wemby is awful fit and I can't see how useful would Jokic be in the team where already half of the roster are bigs.

[FrodoBaggins]

2003-04 CLE traded for Jeff McInnis because LeBron at point guard wasn't working. The Cavaliers were 14-28. They went 20-11 in the 31 games McInnis played, and 0-5 in the ones he didn't post-trade. He averaged 11.7 ppg & 7.5 apg, with only 1.9 topg and 38.8% 3PT on 2.6 3pa/g.

With McInnis (20-11 W/L):
- 104.6 ORtg, 103.6 DRtg, +1 NRtg
- 50.2% TS, 23.1 apg, 13.0 topg

Without McInnis (15-36 W/L):
- 100.5 ORtg, 105.8 DRtg, -5.3 NRtg
- 49.6% TS, 21.4 apg, 15.0 topg

LeBron averaged 6.3 apg and 3.9 topg without McInnis and 5.1 apg and 2.8 topg with McInnis. Although James flashed his on-ball potential, he wasn't quite ready to play the point. To be fair, he's always been best used as a point-forward. There are some interesting parallels with Cooper's current situation. People tend to forget the little details as the years pass.

The acquisition of point guard Jeff McInnis will have a profound effect on the Cavaliers’ starting lineup.

The Cavaliers sent forward Darius Miles – long rumored to be on the trading block – to the Portland Trail Blazers on Wednesday in exchange for McInnis and center Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje.

McInnis, 29, is expected to become the Cavaliers’ starting point guard. The move will also enable the Cavaliers to move LeBron James off the ball when he eventually returns from a sprained right ankle.

To make room for both players on the 12-man roster, the Cavaliers placed forward Jason Kapono on the injured list with right patella tendinitis.
“That’s our hope (to move James to either shooting guard or small forward),” Cavaliers general manager Jim Paxson said. “We felt it was important to add a point guard. That would get LeBron off the ball pretty much full-time."

“He’s done an incredible job. For his team to grow, we need him at his natural position on the wing – instead of bringing up the ball, getting us in the offense and scoring a lot of points. LeBron will do whatever you ask him to do. He’s been asked to do a lot. Specifically, he didn’t come to (Coach Paul Silas) or me (and asked to be moved). In games, when he hasn’t had to do a lot, he’s had better shooting percentages when he’s off the ball.”
Silas wants McInnis and Kevin Ollie to share the point guard spot.

Paxson said he and his staff looked at the free-agent pool that would be available this summer and came to the conclusion that McInnis stacked up well with those players.

“This is not a short-term fix,” Paxson said. “He’ll help us now and in the future. He was as good a point guard as we were going to get. He’s one of those guys where you look at his stats and you’re surprised how productive he’s been in his career.

“He doesn’t turn the ball over much. He can defend and he really competes. He’s a good mid-range shooter. He’s a pretty good shooter from 15-18 feet. He’s got a good knack for getting into the lane. Jeff doesn’t have Speedy Claxton quickness, but Jeff likes to push the ball. He’s not that speedster. He’s a pretty good athlete.”