jakobe & Dick were bad picks

OakleyDokely · Post #221 » by **OakleyDokely** » Tue Nov 18, 2025 3:18 pm

Given the makeup of the team and the depth at the G position, the guys making their 3s and hitting open shots are going to play.

ontnut · Post #222 » by **ontnut** » Tue Nov 18, 2025 5:44 pm

Psubs wrote:
MiamiSPX wrote:Not giving up on JKW but he's been so bad that I am always hoping we can just survive his minutes.

It might take him a few years to develop physically and mentally but he has real tools. At least his 2nd contract should be small like 3 years $20 million.

He was, alongside Shead, one of the young guys I was highest on to make the leap this season.
JKW has been a disappointment, no doubt. But sophomore slumps are a thing. He might just need more reps on the G league to figure out whatever it is that is ailing him. His defence has improved since last year, so I don't think his woes are from lack of trying. Maybe his balance is off since he cut his hair lol.

dTox · Post #223 » by **dTox** » Tue Nov 18, 2025 6:52 pm

With JaKobe, he may be running into the proverbial sophomore slump, I would not rip the cord on him until at least we see him perform in year 3 (unless of course, a terrific offer comes our way). With Gradey, he seems to have found a niche over the past 5-8 games, and has a decent chemistry with Scottie (esp in fast breaks), let's see if it holds and make a judgement call closer to the trade deadline?

HangTime · Post #224 » by **HangTime** » Tue Nov 18, 2025 6:56 pm

ontnut wrote:
Psubs wrote:
MiamiSPX wrote:Not giving up on JKW but he's been so bad that I am always hoping we can just survive his minutes.

It might take him a few years to develop physically and mentally but he has real tools. At least his 2nd contract should be small like 3 years $20 million.

He was, alongside Shead, one of the young guys I was highest on to make the leap this season.
JKW has been a disappointment, no doubt. But sophomore slumps are a thing. He might just need more reps on the G league to figure out whatever it is that is ailing him. His defence has improved since last year, so I don't think his woes are from lack of trying. Maybe his balance is off since he cut his hair lol.

He's playing completely different from last season.
The added weight might have something to do with it.

I think he just needs a little more run way, without having to look over shoulder. With the Raptors, not the 905.

Psubs · Post #225 » by **Psubs** » Tue Nov 18, 2025 7:02 pm

He saw that we picked up Chucky and Martin and he's feeling the pressure to earn minutes.

Tripod · Post #226 » by **Tripod** » Yesterday 6:06 am

Jakobe needed this kind of game after stinkers all season. Hopefully it's something to build on.

Gradey once again won his minutes, something he has done 14/15 games. And his only loss was -2. Continues to lead the team in +/- by a large margin.

Gradey +102
Mamu +78
Battle +67 despite barely playing(77mins)
Barnes +59
Shead +44
IQ +42
Then big drop to Ochai at +16

Walter -26 and CMB -30 are the only negative guys who get regular minutes.

Thaddy · Post #227 » by **Thaddy** » Yesterday 6:22 am

I can confidently say all of our first round picks the past few years will have 10+ NBA careers.

Dick can play hard and not make mistakes. He's in the right place at the right time, every time. The short bursts he comes in for are winning us games.

Walter has been unlucky. He has a tight handle, good defense but his shot wasn't falling until today. That's going to eventually go up, probably after today.

CMB is already NBA ready defensively. He's been played out of position due to a lack of 7 footers on our team. His best minutes are probably with Poeltl.

Agbaji is the only guy I don't believe in. I would look to trade him if there are teams looking to lock him up in free agency. A high 2nd round pick puts us at neutral net return.

canz55 · Post #228 » by **canz55** » Yesterday 1:34 pm

Gradey has high enough intelligence to stay in the NBA long term. He had some terrible games to start this season that clouded my judgment I'll admit.

Also, Jakobe's defense on Maxi and co last night was very impressive and reminded us all that he's still a player in this league.

bluerap23 · Post #229 » by **bluerap23** » Yesterday 2:33 pm

Tripod wrote:Jakobe needed this kind of game after stinkers all season. Hopefully it's something to build on.

Gradey once again won his minutes, something he has done 14/15 games. And his only loss was -2. Continues to lead the team in +/- by a large margin.

Gradey +102
Mamu +78
Battle +67 despite barely playing(77mins)
Barnes +59
Shead +44
IQ +42
Then big drop to Ochai at +16

Walter -26 and CMB -30 are the only negative guys who get regular minutes.

That Gradey stat is crazy. Doesn't really line up with the eye test though. He is definitely playing his role very well. Efficiency improved and providing very good energy. Man-to-man defence is still suspect.

kwajo · Post #230 » by **kwajo** » Yesterday 2:36 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
Tripod wrote:Jakobe needed this kind of game after stinkers all season. Hopefully it's something to build on.

Gradey once again won his minutes, something he has done 14/15 games. And his only loss was -2. Continues to lead the team in +/- by a large margin.

Gradey +102
Mamu +78
Battle +67 despite barely playing(77mins)
Barnes +59
Shead +44
IQ +42
Then big drop to Ochai at +16

Walter -26 and CMB -30 are the only negative guys who get regular minutes.

That Gradey stat is crazy. Doesn't really line up with the eye test though. He is definitely playing his role very well. Efficiency improved and providing very good energy. Man-to-man defence is still suspect.

There are likely other factors in his +/- such as the spacing he creates on the floor based on his reputation as a shooter and cutting/slashing tendencies.

Tripod · Post #231 » by **Tripod** » Yesterday 4:57 pm

Just saw an article that said going into last night's game, Gradey was:

8th in the league in net rating
6th in the league in defensive rating
Lowest turnover rate on Raps(4.7%)

Still need his 3pt shooting to improve but at least he is showing that when on the court, he isn't a black hole defensively anymore.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #232 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Yesterday 5:16 pm

kwajo wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
Tripod wrote:Jakobe needed this kind of game after stinkers all season. Hopefully it's something to build on.

Gradey once again won his minutes, something he has done 14/15 games. And his only loss was -2. Continues to lead the team in +/- by a large margin.

Gradey +102
Mamu +78
Battle +67 despite barely playing(77mins)
Barnes +59
Shead +44
IQ +42
Then big drop to Ochai at +16

Walter -26 and CMB -30 are the only negative guys who get regular minutes.

That Gradey stat is crazy. Doesn't really line up with the eye test though. He is definitely playing his role very well. Efficiency improved and providing very good energy. Man-to-man defence is still suspect.

There are likely other factors in his +/- such as the spacing he creates on the floor based on his reputation as a shooter and cutting/slashing tendencies.

Yeah, I've made this point a few times but the Raptors get to have their cake and eat it with Gradey. He barely touches the ball but gets covered like the opposition really doesn't want him to get the ball. Our offense is really set up to satisfy the paid players into getting their points, and they've all been doing a very good job of taking advantage.

On defense he might get beat, but that's what your teammates are for. Unless you are absolutely necessary to keep an offense afloat and need to be out there for 35+ minutes, it's hard to really tank a defense with one player.

Tripod · Post #233 » by **Tripod** » Yesterday 5:27 pm

Also, apparently Gradey is 4th in league scoring effeciency when coming off screens at 1.29pts/possession.

His movement helps the Raps a bunch!

ATLTimekeeper · Post #234 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Yesterday 5:40 pm

Personally I haven't complained about JaKobe or Gradey all year. They are crafting their game to fit what the team needs out of them. When you don't get regular touches you will always have trouble establishing a rhythm to help the game.

Deflections/36 JaKobe is at 6.5. I think his defense has been pretty consistently good. Eventually the fouls will come down. CMB and Walter are going to eventually have reputations as plus plus defenders in the league and get away with a lot of nonsense. They just have to take their lumps right now.

mademan · Post #235 » by **mademan** » Yesterday 5:49 pm

Im still a believer in JKW. His activity is awesome and I think he'll be a highly valued POA defender. His shot needs to come around, but he's shooting with confidence and the coaching staff trusts it, which i imagine means there's reason to trust it.

Dick, to me, is just a swing and a miss. I'd be happy if he became a positive bench rotation player at this point.

mademan · Post #236 » by **mademan** » Yesterday 5:50 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
Tripod wrote:Jakobe needed this kind of game after stinkers all season. Hopefully it's something to build on.

Gradey once again won his minutes, something he has done 14/15 games. And his only loss was -2. Continues to lead the team in +/- by a large margin.

Gradey +102
Mamu +78
Battle +67 despite barely playing(77mins)
Barnes +59
Shead +44
IQ +42
Then big drop to Ochai at +16

Walter -26 and CMB -30 are the only negative guys who get regular minutes.

That Gradey stat is crazy. Doesn't really line up with the eye test though. He is definitely playing his role very well. Efficiency improved and providing very good energy. Man-to-man defence is still suspect.

Naked +/- is the worst measurement in basketball. It's just full of noise

dballislife · Post #237 » by **dballislife** » Yesterday 6:09 pm

i think both have chances to be legit bench help in nba but nothing more imo, and at their draft range getting solid bench help is good enough

PushDaRock · Post #238 » by **PushDaRock** » Yesterday 6:14 pm

mademan wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
Tripod wrote:Jakobe needed this kind of game after stinkers all season. Hopefully it's something to build on.

Gradey once again won his minutes, something he has done 14/15 games. And his only loss was -2. Continues to lead the team in +/- by a large margin.

Gradey +102
Mamu +78
Battle +67 despite barely playing(77mins)
Barnes +59
Shead +44
IQ +42
Then big drop to Ochai at +16

Walter -26 and CMB -30 are the only negative guys who get regular minutes.

That Gradey stat is crazy. Doesn't really line up with the eye test though. He is definitely playing his role very well. Efficiency improved and providing very good energy. Man-to-man defence is still suspect.

Naked +/- is the worst measurement in basketball. It's just full of noise

Well, he has the best on/off splits of everyone as well outside of Battle.

mademan · Post #239 » by **mademan** » Yesterday 6:59 pm

PushDaRock wrote:
mademan wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
That Gradey stat is crazy. Doesn't really line up with the eye test though. He is definitely playing his role very well. Efficiency improved and providing very good energy. Man-to-man defence is still suspect.

Naked +/- is the worst measurement in basketball. It's just full of noise

Well, he has the best on/off splits of everyone as well outside of Battle.

Same thing. Low minute, bench role guys having good +/- or on/offs is different than a 32 min starter. This is 15 games at 16min/game...its genuinely meaningless.

PushDaRock · Post #240 » by **PushDaRock** » Yesterday 7:10 pm

mademan wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
mademan wrote:
Naked +/- is the worst measurement in basketball. It's just full of noise

Well, he has the best on/off splits of everyone as well outside of Battle.

Same thing. Low minute, bench role guys having good +/- or on/offs is different than a 32 min starter. This is 15 games at 16min/game...its genuinely meaningless.

Different? Sure, but not totally meaningless if he's even close to sustaining over the entire season. We do need a larger sample size.