Rumors, Random Thoughts, etc Version 20/20 We all got everything right...

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Think what getting lost is Nico tried to trade Luka for Giannis and Ant before AD. Wanted a defensive player and also stated he was interested in competing now.

Under those criteria, the Luka trade wasn’t going to be great.

[Bonifan]

Think what getting lost is Nico tried to trade Luka for Giannis and Ant before AD. Wanted a defensive player and also stated he was interested in competing now.

Under those criteria, the Luka trade wasn’t going to be great.

It was a stupid trade, plain and simple

[LightTheBeam]

[

I get your mind is made up here, and no amount of red flags will change it. But I think its extremely important to give context.

So important, we agree on that.
And yes my mind is made up. But also the moment I start falling into the General Board trap of everything is rigged, then I stop following the product. While I appreciate the skill and the highlight plays, I'd have little interest in just an exhibition. Haven't watched an all-star game in 30 years. So if the product is just a show and not a competition, I'm out.

Now pro wrestling and scripted "reality" TV are very popular. So no judgment from me if you would still watch and post about a product you believe wasn't on the up and up. By for my sports? I need the competition aspect.

And I believe its there. Knicks and Clippers were terrible forever in big markets. Bulls haven't been relevant in a decade. OKC looks like a budding dynasty perhaps only thwarted by Wemby in San Antonio-- a market so important they only have the one major pro sports team(couldn't even beat out Austin for MLS) yet the league decided to make the most successful franchise by far of the last quarter century but it goes back 30 years beyond that.

So for every Pat Ewing we get Oden or Zion or Wemby or AD or Lebron ending up in bad markets. But we are to ignore that. Or invent some new reason why that is best for the Lakers?

The amount of gynmastics and conjecture required for you to be right is just wild. But then its more wild how much investment you seem to still have in a product.

I think the hard truth is its hard to accept when the franchise we root for sucks this long. So we are desperate to find out how its out of their control. They would dominate if not for the rigging. And you have that one game 7 against the Lakers always in the back of your mind as "proof". Nope, the little Mavs really were just incompetent prior to Cuban and now post Cuban. Cuban is flawed, but on the basketball side he was a top notch governor. Kings haven't had one of those maybe ever and certainly not in 2 decades. Hopefully you guys get one. But until then, you will hunt for stuff so you don't have to accept the incompetence.

My opinion is that sports is influenced, not flat out rigged. You are correct if it was fully scripted, I wouldn't be invested. We shouldn't confuse those two things. The NBA can influence certain players to some markets, and in other times let it play out. The NBA can prop up the LA market, while simultaneously letting the rest of the league operate as a free market. Just want to make sure my "Luka rigged to LA" isn't being misrepresented as the whole thing being scripted TV.

The second issue is you seem to continue to bring up the Kings sucking as if that is influencing my opinion. We have the worst owner in major sports, the teams incompetence isn't some league wide conspiracy to keep the Kings down. I've never said that. Seems to be a fair bit of straw man going on here, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that maybe my position wasn't fully clear rather than an intentional distortion.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Think what getting lost is Nico tried to trade Luka for Giannis and Ant before AD. Wanted a defensive player and also stated he was interested in competing now.

Under those criteria, the Luka trade wasn’t going to be great.

It was a stupid trade, plain and simple

The idea that you can get better by trading a Luka type player was always flawed

[Scoot McGroot]

Because even the worst GM's don't make that trade. This isn't Shai + boat load of picks for PG13 (and Kawhi). There is no rational that excuses this.

The explanation we received is insulting. The "started over a what if during a cup of coffee" is insulting. The "had to do it quietly because if word got out they were considering a Luka trade, oh no" is insulting.

Nobody trades a top 5 player in the league without shopping offers when said player hasn't asked out. Nico didn't become the GM yesterday. We watched him make solid trades for 3 years before this deal. We watched him make solid signings. You have to suspend logic to accept what we are being fed.

Unless you’re saying Nico is really a genius, he could be the worst GM. The one that actually makes that deal. Because, he did make that deal. And now he’s fired for it.

Most bad GM’s don’t have new and hands off ownership that understands little of basketball. That’s new. But GM’s often get high off their own supply of overconfidence. Ed just saw it with Weaver in NO trading an unprotected first, etc.



To me, it makes MUCH more sense to simply see that Nico was dumb and overconfident. He’s not the first to do so. He just happened to also have Luka to be able to trade. Jerry Krause pushed away from Phil Jackson, Scotty Pippen, and Michael Jordan because he wanted to prove he could win one without them. This dumb stuff happens.

i agree nico could just be dumb for trading luka, the part that fuels conspiracy talk is the pathetic return he accepted.

Maybe. But we’ve also valued AD very highly on this board in recent years. Could it just be that he underestimated how much of a premium a top 3 type player should pull on a top 10-15 player?

As in, he’s ignorant?

[Texas Chuck]

The second issue is you seem to continue to bring up the Kings sucking as if that is influencing my opinion. We have the worst owner in major sports, the teams incompetence isn't some league wide conspiracy to keep the Kings down. I've never said that. Seems to be a fair bit of straw man going on here, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that maybe my position wasn't fully clear rather than an intentional distortion.

I'm simply hunting for any kind of explanation why you are insisting on the conspiracy narrative. Sometimes its hard to accept our team is just bad/poorly run. Sounds like I was on the wrong track there and so my bad.

And of course the league wants LA to be relevant. Just as baseball wants the Yankees to be and aren't mad when all the stars want to play for the Dodgers. NFL would like the Cowboys to be good again, but much like the Lakers, the brand is so strong they haven't forced a star QB there because Dallas will forever mean ratings.

But wanting something and putting a giant thumb on the scale are two very different things and the onus is on the one making the accusations to have something more. Harrison was never a basketball guy. He was a shoe guy. He was hired because Cuban believed his connections could help lure a star to play with Luka, not because he was some great team builder. So when he makes a dumb team building decision on his own, yeah I can accept it as incompetence rather than the league doing it.

And he's been fired. And raked over the coals. What would be keeping him from revealing this scheme? Nothing. He goes from a goat to a hero for exposing the league. But instead he just tries to blame Cuban cuz he's got nothing else and he keeps looking like a guy they will eventually name a rule after like Stephian...

[Godaddycurse]

Unless you’re saying Nico is really a genius, he could be the worst GM. The one that actually makes that deal. Because, he did make that deal. And now he’s fired for it.

Most bad GM’s don’t have new and hands off ownership that understands little of basketball. That’s new. But GM’s often get high off their own supply of overconfidence. Ed just saw it with Weaver in NO trading an unprotected first, etc.



To me, it makes MUCH more sense to simply see that Nico was dumb and overconfident. He’s not the first to do so. He just happened to also have Luka to be able to trade. Jerry Krause pushed away from Phil Jackson, Scotty Pippen, and Michael Jordan because he wanted to prove he could win one without them. This dumb stuff happens.

i agree nico could just be dumb for trading luka, the part that fuels conspiracy talk is the pathetic return he accepted.

Maybe. But we’ve also valued AD very highly on this board in recent years. Could it just be that he underestimated how much of a premium a top 3 type player should pull on a top 10-15 player?

As in, he’s ignorant?

i think its negligence to not properly assess luka's value across the league instead of ignorance, but to each their own?

[Texas Chuck]

i agree nico could just be dumb for trading luka, the part that fuels conspiracy talk is the pathetic return he accepted.

Maybe. But we’ve also valued AD very highly on this board in recent years. Could it just be that he underestimated how much of a premium a top 3 type player should pull on a top 10-15 player?

As in, he’s ignorant?

i think its negligence to not properly assess luka's value across the league instead of ignorance, but to each their own?

Why not both? I mean it is both.

[Scoot McGroot]

Read on Twitter

So pity

Is there a worse organization than the Pacers - Just let it go...Geez.

I don't recall the Pacers slandering Myles before Myles opened his mouth and expressed his discontent first.

Did I miss that part?

They boo'd him when he came back . Like C'mon

1) there’s questions if it’s real. A Pacers graphic designer has alluded to the spacing issues in the graphic. If it’s real, it’s bush league. Hopefully it’s not.

2) Myles has gone on a podcast tour of a ton of appearances of slandering his teammates and making backhanded comments insulting the locals of Indy. He even had one go public the day before his appearance in Indy that got him booed.

I really think fans want to cheer him, but he is so awkward at times that he’s just handled it very poorly and burned bridges with his teammates and the city.

It shouldn’t have happened. He should’ve gotten the most lackluster golf clap due to his repeated comments and podcast appearances instead of booing. For sure. Without the constant statements, he should’ve gotten a standing ovation. It’s terrible all around.

[Jojothewhale]

Negligence can be a symptom of incompetence. The point is that it doesn’t prove conspiracy. And we need quite a bit of info to jump to that conclusion if we’re going to try to be reasonable.

[Scoot McGroot]

i agree nico could just be dumb for trading luka, the part that fuels conspiracy talk is the pathetic return he accepted.

Maybe. But we’ve also valued AD very highly on this board in recent years. Could it just be that he underestimated how much of a premium a top 3 type player should pull on a top 10-15 player?

As in, he’s ignorant?

i think its negligence to not properly assess luka's value across the league instead of ignorance, but to each their own?

What’s the difference in this case? He doesn’t know what he should do as a GM? Both negligent in his duties, but also ignorant to his duties in this case?

[Godaddycurse]

Maybe. But we’ve also valued AD very highly on this board in recent years. Could it just be that he underestimated how much of a premium a top 3 type player should pull on a top 10-15 player?

As in, he’s ignorant?

i think its negligence to not properly assess luka's value across the league instead of ignorance, but to each their own?

What’s the difference in this case? He doesn’t know what he should do as a GM? Both negligent in his duties, but also ignorant to his duties in this case?

i think in my mind ignorance is he thought AD and a 1st really equals Luka's value, negligence is he didn't do his actual job as a GM to assess Luka's market value. Whether that was on purpose (as conspiracy theorists clamor) or coincedence is up in the air

[SkyHook]

Feeling bad for this kid... a tradition unlike any other.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Feeling bad for this kid... a tradition unlike any other.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

An underrated what if imo. Career started off rough due to injuries and lack of time to work on his game.

But think his returned validated what some of his potential could had looked like.

Could had been a tall, fast change of pace defensive point guard that could shoot. Something every contender could use.

[SkyHook]

Feeling bad for this kid... a tradition unlike any other.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

An underrated what if imo. Career started off rough due to injuries and lack of time to work on his game.

But think his returned validated what some of his potential could had looked like.

Could had been a tall, fast change of pace defensive point guard that could shoot. Something every contender could use.

Love the kid, had high hopes for him. It would be great if he could end his career with a couple of healthy seasons.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

i think its negligence to not properly assess luka's value across the league instead of ignorance, but to each their own?

What’s the difference in this case? He doesn’t know what he should do as a GM? Both negligent in his duties, but also ignorant to his duties in this case?

i think in my mind ignorance is he thought AD and a 1st really equals Luka's value, negligence is he didn't do his actual job as a GM to assess Luka's market value. Whether that was on purpose (as conspiracy theorists clamor) or coincedence is up in the air

Hard to get best value when you’re focused on fit.

Going down the list of defensive players based on last year play. If Nico didn’t like Nico he was probably going to call about JJJ and bam range next

[zimpy27]

Nico didn't think Luka could win a championship.
He wanted to create a strong defense and surrounded Luka with defensive players but just couldn't make it work.

I understand the logic that you aren't ever going to win a championship if you can't lock in defensively as a team. I get wanting to trade Luka when you were concerned that his weight issues would make him a bad asset in a few years on a supermax.

The real issue for Nico is that he did not get enough value back for Luka. I think he was short a few FRPs. The trade was made worse because Kyrie and Davis both got injured soon after. Compounding it has been the fans not standing behind the team on the floor, I doubt any of the current non-rookie Mavs players want to play for the Mavs much longer because of the fans anti-team management sentiment. So now the Mavs really need to shop any players with value and rebuild a culture.

The real issue is that a top 4 player in the world was made available, and only 1 team was able to "bid". The mavs could have gotten just about anything they wanted from a ton of teams. What would the spurs have given to pair wemby + luka? Castle + other youth + 1sts for the next 7 years?

It wasnt 1-2 1sts short. You cant say we dont like luka because hes an injury concern while trading for AD who is mr glass and 7 years older. Ill never understand how anyone would buy that.

Why contrive conspiracy when incompetence is simpler, and much more likely?

Wasn't even the only incompetent thing Nico did.

- Klay trade
- Luka trade
- Grimes trade

[zimpy27]

Why contrive conspiracy when incompetence is simpler, and much more likely?

lightthebeam has never heard of Occam's razor, and that in and of itself is my own application of Occam's razor.

I actually think the simplest explanation is the league wanted to generate some buzz and ratings. Nice one though.

Simplest explanation is that the league found out Lakers wanted to sell and it was valuable to all owners that a Lakers sale was as high as possible. It would set the ceiling for everyone else. Now all the owners can borrow against the valuation of their team, giving them more money for their other businesses.
That is a true motive, every owner in the league benefited from this trade.

[Jojothewhale]

The simplest explanation is a grand conspiracy either involving 32 owners and the league office or the office itself going rogue? Yep, we've got takes today.

If the league is fixing things, they should probably send the refs out to eliminate the Thunder early every year so they get a bigger tv deal. Oklahoma City is a tiny market. And reverse time to send Wemby to Chicago or Houston.

[Devilanche]

The simplest explanation is a grand conspiracy either involving 32 owners and the league office or the office itself going rogue? Yep, we've got takes today.

If the league is fixing things, they should probably send the refs out to eliminate the Thunder early every year so they get a bigger tv deal. Oklahoma City is a tiny market. And reverse time to send Wemby to Chicago or Houston.

You raise the top end by inflating lakers selling price.
You make every team attractive by showing even a small market team can win the league.
You then move to expand the nba draft to 3 rounds and roster limit to 15 full and 5 two way contract.

Just need to find multiple Presti for the plan to work.