PG - Knicks fooled easily by Magic

[Gravy]

1: Thibs played multiple starters 40+ minutes several times in the first 15 games.. Brown isn’t doing that
2: Mitch has played 9 games out of 15… and only 17mpg.. Precious is playing more than that this season ..last season too
3: Brunson didnt miss 2 of those first 15 games last year
4: OG didn’t miss 3 of those first 15 games
5: You conveniently left Deuce off the list of bench players by being slick and saying “on this day” like that means anything.. nice try tho he also chose not to play Precious when he could’ve who is better than Yabu..

Brown has a much deeper bench to begin the season so he does not need to have a short rotation. Still he's barely playing the kids unless he absolutely has to.
Mitch was out until game 59, Precious was out the beginning of the season until game 22.
Knicks were 6-2 last season when OG was out.
Last year when the whole bench was Dadiet,Kolek,Payne and Sims who was supposed to be getting more minutes that Brown is now playing?

I should’ve specified at the end that I meant in the playoffs.. should’ve elaborated to include Delon and Shamet too since my point was Thibs doesn’t play the bench at all his whole career even when he has one during the biggest time of need. Just like the beginning of the season when we were all complaining about him playing the starters 40+ mins and 6-7 man rotations, he did the same shyt in the playoffs… 7 man rotations.

Why do you keep leaving out Deuce from the bench last year? And we didn’t lose Brunson and OG at the same time in the first 15 games..

And why are you even comparing such an arbitrary number of games like this between two seasons… it’s apples to oranges lol… there’s so many differences it really is a stupid conversation…

Like picking a random span of games when we didn’t have OG and citing the record has nothing to do with the (weird/nonsensical) point you’re trying to make… like we had a winning 9-6 record without Brunson last year too… so what’s the fukking point?

He’s a new coach with a new philosophy who’s trying new things… it takes time. We haven’t seen everything.. even Wally mentioned that when he said Brown will still show new things he’s got saved for the playoffs… as most good coaches do.

Delon wright isn't even in the league, he got waived by the Pacers the worst team out there. Deuce missed 18 games last year one of which was the game I picked. I agree Shamet is playing better.. and now he's out.

I'm comparing the first 15 games for both coaches because y'all kept saying we had the same issues last season. I'm giving that some context by pointing out the bench was much worse and the east was tougher then so the coach was doing more with less.

[god shammgod]

Today they were without 1 starter in OG, another starter in Mitch plays limited minutes and Shamet played 3 minutes as a starter. Brunson, Clarkson, Hart, Mikal and KAT basically played starters minutes which is a worse 5 man unit than last year at this time. The lower minute guys were Mitch, Yabu, Diawara and Kolek. Mitch is better than lower minute guys from last year but that's it.

I'd rather have last year's group with OG at this time. It's too early for me to say how tough the east is at this point. No one knew the Cavs would sustain as the top team in the East or the Pistons would jump up near the Knicks level at this point last year.

Knicks were 6-2 without OG last season, the coach was able to win without him. Mitch played limited minutes last season too and we only had him for 17 reg season games.

The team was supposedly going to take a huge leap this season without being held back by the previous coach. Why are the other East teams much better but not us?

A bunch of teams in the East are better through natural maturation of high level young talent (Orlando, Detroit, maybe Chicago). Atlanta are better through a combination of that and getting KP in whilst Boston was having a fire sale. The Knicks don't have that level of coming to maturity players. Deuce is good, but not Franz/Cade/.. level good ... and he's basically the only person in that zone.

For the people talking about the Knicks winning a championship ... that seems extremely improbable with this JB-KAT led squad of players. And that's without taking into account the much stronger Western conference.

I struggle to see who would want to trade for KAT at this point.

even if everything went well in the east, we would have to hope that somebody in the west shocked okc and knocked them out early and we could possibly beat that team instead. but denver and the rockets look out of our class this year as well.

our best bet might be to hope that giannis asks to come here at some point and then we give away multiple good players for him and take a year or two to try to rebuild our depth. this seems unlikely of course.

[HEZI]

The hypocrisy of asking for patience now after making the game threads toxic after every game in what happened to be our best season in decades

[Gravy]

Today they were without 1 starter in OG, another starter in Mitch plays limited minutes and Shamet played 3 minutes as a starter. Brunson, Clarkson, Hart, Mikal and KAT basically played starters minutes which is a worse 5 man unit than last year at this time. The lower minute guys were Mitch, Yabu, Diawara and Kolek. Mitch is better than lower minute guys from last year but that's it.

I'd rather have last year's group with OG at this time. It's too early for me to say how tough the east is at this point. No one knew the Cavs would sustain as the top team in the East or the Pistons would jump up near the Knicks level at this point last year.

Knicks were 6-2 without OG last season, the coach was able to win without him. Mitch played limited minutes last season too and we only had him for 17 reg season games.

The team was supposedly going to take a huge leap this season without being held back by the previous coach. Why are the other East teams much better but not us?

A bunch of teams in the East are better through natural maturation of high level young talent (Orlando, Detroit, maybe Chicago). Atlanta are better through a combination of that and getting KP in whilst Boston was having a fire sale. The Knicks don't have that level of coming to maturity players. Deuce is good, but not Franz/Cade/.. level good ... and he's basically the only person in that zone.

For the people talking about the Knicks winning a championship ... that seems extremely improbable with this JB-KAT led squad of players. And that's without taking into account the much stronger Western conference.

I struggle to see who would want to trade for KAT at this point.

We have an improved bench now too so how about the possibility that the coaching was much better last season?

[spree8]

The hypocrisy of asking for patience now after making the game threads toxic after every game in what happened to be our best season in decades

Now this is some serious revisionist history. It was the same usual suspects who made the game threads toxic after every game last year lol… all the KAT, Mikal, bench and kids haters.. like you. Trying to act like it was all the anti-Thibs crowd (who were correct and that’s why he was fired) and now it’s hypocritical they’re complaining about the anti-Brown crowd is disingenuous to say the least.

[spree8]

Brown has a much deeper bench to begin the season so he does not need to have a short rotation. Still he's barely playing the kids unless he absolutely has to.
Mitch was out until game 59, Precious was out the beginning of the season until game 22.
Knicks were 6-2 last season when OG was out.
Last year when the whole bench was Dadiet,Kolek,Payne and Sims who was supposed to be getting more minutes that Brown is now playing?

I should’ve specified at the end that I meant in the playoffs.. should’ve elaborated to include Delon and Shamet too since my point was Thibs doesn’t play the bench at all his whole career even when he has one during the biggest time of need. Just like the beginning of the season when we were all complaining about him playing the starters 40+ mins and 6-7 man rotations, he did the same shyt in the playoffs… 7 man rotations.

Why do you keep leaving out Deuce from the bench last year? And we didn’t lose Brunson and OG at the same time in the first 15 games..

And why are you even comparing such an arbitrary number of games like this between two seasons… it’s apples to oranges lol… there’s so many differences it really is a stupid conversation…

Like picking a random span of games when we didn’t have OG and citing the record has nothing to do with the (weird/nonsensical) point you’re trying to make… like we had a winning 9-6 record without Brunson last year too… so what’s the fukking point?

He’s a new coach with a new philosophy who’s trying new things… it takes time. We haven’t seen everything.. even Wally mentioned that when he said Brown will still show new things he’s got saved for the playoffs… as most good coaches do.

Delon wright isn't even in the league, he got waived by the Pacers the worst team out there. Deuce missed 18 games last year one of which was the game I picked. I agree Shamet is playing better.. and now he's out.

I'm comparing the first 15 games for both coaches because y'all kept saying we had the same issues last season. I'm giving that some context by pointing out the bench was much worse and the east was tougher then so the coach was doing more with less.

Comparing the first 15 games is apples to oranges… they’re not the same. We have a new coach and the players are still learning as is he. He’s trying new things to see what works. We also were without Jalen and OG for 2-3 games. You citing our record last year in February without OG alone is irrelevant… just like our winning record without Jalen last March is irrelevant. A new coach not having our superstar and our defensive anchor a few games to start out the season is a big deal.

Delon Wright not being in the league right now doesn’t mean he’s a bad player… there’s a lot of players out there who are good but not on a team… Dinwiddie is another example. Delon played really well for us. What was Thibs excuse with Shamet? Because he didn’t get to play in the PO either, and he also wasn’t on a team before we brought him back this season and look how he tore it up until he got taken out last night…

I’m not saying we had the same issues last season? We had issues, but they were different, and comparing the first 15 games like this isn’t getting to the bottom of anything at all.

[HEZI]

The hypocrisy of asking for patience now after making the game threads toxic after every game in what happened to be our best season in decades

Now this is some serious revisionist history. It was the same usual suspects who made the game threads toxic after every game last year lol… all the KAT, Mikal, bench and kids haters.. like you. Trying to act like it was all the anti-Thibs crowd (who was correct and that’s why he was fired) and now it’s hypocritical they’re complaining about the anti-Brown crowd is disingenuous to say the least.

Scheme scheme scheme. Rotations rotations rotations. Mike Brown coaching how you want and we are worse. Your coach is the one exposing you because he’s doing just what you wanted and we suck

And now you got the audacity to ask for patience

[god shammgod]

we might just be learning that unless you draft a few of your top players you face a really tough team winning it all. especially nowadays.

it used to be that young teams needed to wait until they were in their primes to have a chance at winning. but more than ever this year it seems that younger, athletic teams are thriving and older teams, some who should theoretically be in their prime, are having a harder time with the speed of the game. okc, houston, detroit, san antonio should have too many young guys to be this good but it doesn't seem to matter anymore.

[spree8]

The hypocrisy of asking for patience now after making the game threads toxic after every game in what happened to be our best season in decades

Now this is some serious revisionist history. It was the same usual suspects who made the game threads toxic after every game last year lol… all the KAT, Mikal, bench and kids haters.. like you. Trying to act like it was all the anti-Thibs crowd (who was correct and that’s why he was fired) and now it’s hypocritical they’re complaining about the anti-Brown crowd is disingenuous to say the least.

Scheme scheme scheme. Rotations rotations rotations. Mike Brown coaching how you want and we are worse. Your coach is the one exposing you because he’s doing just what you wanted and we suck

And now you got the audacity to ask for patience

This makes no sense lol.. we suck? That’s news to me. I see it as growing pains and the learning process.. typical with a new coach 18% into the season.

Believing “we suck” and cheering it/laughing about it kinda exposes you as a fake fan no? .. congrats

[god shammgod]

Read on Twitter

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i think it's time guys, bring mentality back!!!!!!!!

[robillionaire]

I slept on it and still don’t feel good about the trajectory of the team. If I concede to trade towns(since that’s what people now think the magic bullet is) for a realistic target I think the target should be caa’s Jaren Jackson who is a better defender, grizzlies are bad so maybe that can happen, but truth be told that doesn’t make us a championship team either. Probably doesn’t even move the needle. It’s now very difficult for me to envision a championship coming out of this situation and we’ve traded and swapped our picks until 2031 so that’s a bummer.

And it’s not even particularly fun to watch right now either

We can’t beat the Magic. We can’t beat the Heat. We can’t beat the bucks. We can’t beat the bulls. Last year people talmbout we can’t beat okc or boston, We now can’t even beat even middling non-contender eastern conference teams(which is what we appear to be now). What are we doing here.

And yeah I know we have suffered through worse with this team. We’ll probably make the playoffs. That would have been a big deal for us half a decade ago. I’ve always been a proponent of trying to stay positive because the team was so bad for 20 years but the drop off from being a contender(say what you want about a fluke we beat the champions and were a freak bounce away from the finals) to this realization isn’t fun

this sums up how i feel perfectly. i wasn't thrilled with the mike brown hire but they performed well enough in the playoffs that i assumed no matter who the coach was we would be able to maintain our position in the conference because of how weak it was. we have seemingly regressed.

and sadly, i don't even think you can get jj for him. you can probably get ja

This team is playing closer to the team that barely got by a young pistons team and lost pretty handy to Indiana

Looking at this framing of it, both of them were 6 game series, we close out that game 1 like we had 99.99999% chance of doing and needed a historic unlikely choke, bad break challenges, lucky bounces, shooting barrage that couldn’t be replicated in a million years, and it’s 3-3 going back to the garden for game 7. Just like almighty OKC had them 3-3 going back for game 7 and needed Haliburton injured to win.

But if that’s considered pretty handy(and I do agree they outplayed us) then I feel more than comfortable saying we pretty handily beat Detroit and that we were demonstrably the more talented team over Detroit. Which is even more undeniable for people who insisted our coach was bad

So in 15 regular season games we went from comfortably more talented than “young” Detroit(I guess they’re all grown up now 6 months later) to today where now apparently they’re just so stacked and our players are all inept losers. These dudes didn’t just morph this much better players in 6 months and our guys didn’t get their talent removed like the monstars did on space jam. The rosters are basically the same.

Detroit growing and getting better from the experience of making the playoffs for the first time and losing to us is understandable, don’t get me wrong. The problem is that the Knicks should be better than this. This core has been playoff battle tested. We have been to the conference finals. We are massively underachieving and underperforming the expectations right now. No two ways about it.

[HEZI]

Now this is some serious revisionist history. It was the same usual suspects who made the game threads toxic after every game last year lol… all the KAT, Mikal, bench and kids haters.. like you. Trying to act like it was all the anti-Thibs crowd (who was correct and that’s why he was fired) and now it’s hypocritical they’re complaining about the anti-Brown crowd is disingenuous to say the least.

Scheme scheme scheme. Rotations rotations rotations. Mike Brown coaching how you want and we are worse. Your coach is the one exposing you because he’s doing just what you wanted and we suck

And now you got the audacity to ask for patience

This makes no sense lol.. we suck? That’s news to me. I see it as growing pains and the learning process.. typical with a new coach 18% into the season.

Believing “we suck” and cheering it/laughing about it kinda exposes you as a fake fan no? .. congrats

Growing pains?

You claimed if the previous coach made those adjustments it would bring instant success. There was no room for growing pains last year, it was the team was being held back. Now all of a sudden there are growing pains and we need more time. Clear double standard that’s why I don’t take you seriously. I guess only the real fans were the toxic ones during our best season in decades You keep exposing yourself with your hypocrisy

[jvsimonetti0514]

The hypocrisy of asking for patience now after making the game threads toxic after every game in what happened to be our best season in decades

Now this is some serious revisionist history. It was the same usual suspects who made the game threads toxic after every game last year lol… all the KAT, Mikal, bench and kids haters.. like you. Trying to act like it was all the anti-Thibs crowd (who were correct and that’s why he was fired) and now it’s hypocritical they’re complaining about the anti-Brown crowd is disingenuous to say the least.

Feels a little early to spike the football about firing Thibs being the right decision. This front office gave big money to Evan Fournier once upon a time and had to use picks to get out of other bad contracts they had. Not sure pointing to them doing something as it being correct decision. But using your logic, why aren’t Payne, Precious, and Wright back with the team if the front office didn't think that last years bench was bad? Those guys are now either not rotation players or out of league. Mikal is clearly playing a lot better than last year but still isn’t the defender that we expected to get when we traded for him. Thibs was obviously wrong about playing 8 man rotations last year but the “kids” still aren’t playing. Does that make Mike Brown a “kid hater” too”

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

[TKKnicks1]

A lot of complaining in here, myself included, but our next two games are against high school squads so I'm assuming all will be forgotten.

[god shammgod]

A lot of complaining in here, myself included, but our next two games are against high school squads so I'm assuming all will be forgotten.

yep

[spree8]

Scheme scheme scheme. Rotations rotations rotations. Mike Brown coaching how you want and we are worse. Your coach is the one exposing you because he’s doing just what you wanted and we suck

And now you got the audacity to ask for patience

This makes no sense lol.. we suck? That’s news to me. I see it as growing pains and the learning process.. typical with a new coach 18% into the season.

Believing “we suck” and cheering it/laughing about it kinda exposes you as a fake fan no? .. congrats

Growing pains?

You claimed if the previous coach made those adjustments it would bring instant success. There was no room for growing pains last year, it was the team was being held back. Now all of a sudden there are growing pains and we need more time. Clear double standard that’s why I don’t take you seriously. I guess only the real fans were the toxic ones during our best season in decades You keep exposing yourself with your hypocrisy

What are you talking about? You were extremely toxic last season with your hate of the players, bench, and kids lol. How have you never heard of a learning curve, that’s ridiculous. It’s 15 games and you n the usual suspects are declaring the season over. This is so unhinged it’s comical. Do you man, but I’ll make sure to pull these receipts of the tiny toxic club members come playoff time

[Deeeez Knicks]

we might just be learning that unless you draft a few of your top players you face a really tough team winning it all. especially nowadays.

it used to be that young teams needed to wait until they were in their primes to have a chance at winning. but more than ever this year it seems that younger, athletic teams are thriving and older teams, some who should theoretically be in their prime, are having a harder time with the speed of the game. okc, houston, detroit, san antonio should have too many young guys to be this good but it doesn't seem to matter anymore.

It has pretty much always been that way. Drafting quality or good players is almost a necessity. Knicks havent drafted anyone that has stuck since Deuce which puts us at a disdvantage. We make up for it somewhat with signing some players on cheaper deals (Brunson). We missed the defensive energy of OG and Deuce, but even when they play we still look slow at times. But yea, thats why its worthwhile to try to develop some of these young guys. Not expecting stars, but if they could at least give some solid min with some energy it can help. We def still have other issues so that wont solve it all.

[robillionaire]

A lot of complaining in here, myself included, but our next two games are against high school squads so I'm assuming all will be forgotten.

yep

If we lose either one of those games this morning will look like a picnic

[TheGreenArrow]

A lot of complaining in here, myself included, but our next two games are against high school squads so I'm assuming all will be forgotten.

yep

If we lose these next two do you think they fire Mike brown??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!