PG - Knicks fooled easily by Magic

[The KnicksFix]

i dont think mikal is a bad player. he is having a solid year. but he absolutely was not worth that package we gave him. that was a package you give to someone like giannis. not a role player. that's my beef with him. if we didn't do that trade giannis would've been a knick already. if you're telling me you rather have mikal then giannis then idk what to tell you lol

hart has clearly lost his momentum playing under mike brown. never had this issue with him under thibs. so there's that. i dont mind moving him

i agree about kat he sucks

The trade for giannis wasn’t there at the time. But the trade for Mikal was. Who’s to say that giannis was ever going to be moved? We made the trade for Mikal and got within two wins of the finals.

The problem with the Knicks isn’t Mikal. Or OG. Or even Brunson.

It’s the defensive liabilities of KAT and hart and JB on the court at the same time.

the knicks have been waiting for giannis for years man. that's been well reported by shams. if they held on to their picks like they were doing for a long time then giannis would've been here.

what we gave up for mikal was a star package. that's not feasible.

and yeah we almost went to the finals last year. yet mikal still complained to dolan about thibs and got him fired. so yeah im blaming mikal lol

The rest of the league was waiting on giannis to become available. Were the Knicks supposed to sit and keep waiting? That’s like waiting on your high school crush to become available. But she finally likes you after she gets fat, has three kids and is divorced. The Knicks had to make moves. Mikal is not the problem. I’ll beat the dead horse. You cannot win with a lineup of JB KAT and Hart. Something has to give because Hart is giving up wayyyyy too many points night after night.

If you’re going to make moves those are the first two that have to go. If not , get JVG. But as constructed they aren’t enough.

[Jalen Bluntson]

9-6. Blow it all up. The season is over.

Not gonna lie Blunt, you told us last year to remain calm until Mitch came back and we looked really good

I just think the sky is falling routine is way passed played out. The fact that the PG threads double and triple in size after losses is just as played out. We all know why that is.

I'm giving them 20-25 games before I even attempt to diagnose what's wrong or how to fix things...if that is the case. My impression so far is that they haven't had enough time. Multiple key players have missed time while they're trying to put this all together. That doesn't help things.

As much as I understand the reasons they made the KAT trade, I thought it may have been one trade too many at the time. It changed everything we all loved about the team. All grit. No quit. Metal bats mentality. That's gone.

Now with the new HC, we have yet to establish any identity. We have yet to put it all together. It has only been a few weeks. I'll be patient and see it all play out for a while longer because we are winning games. That's actually a positive thing but, you wouldn't know that by the tone of this place.

[thebuzzardman]

Wonder if the faster pace is why the defense looks much worse this year and as they get into peak game shape in a few more weeks things will start to get better? Trying to find some silver lining here.

or are they tired from practicing more ? thibs saved their energy for games

something is amiss

Some ideas but I have no clue:

Modern defense is all about help, not specifically man to man. Yes, of course Brunson being a subpar defender combined with KAT is always an issue

but:

Essentially same personnel as last year.

So, MAYBE Brown tweaked the defense and since it takes 5 players to be in sync, it's taking time for that to happen.

Counterpoints:
These 5 guys in the starting lineup have 1 full season together, c'mon

Counter to the counterpoint:
Maybe Brown just sucks.

[prophet_of_rage]

Mikal is our defensive weapon against 1’s, 2’s and 3’s, he’s not big enough to guard 4’s, that’s why OG gets the big bucks

which 1, 2 and 3 has he locked up this season

Dood got 15 steals in 5 games and is the only defensive guard we got now that Shamet went down, with deuce second. But yes, please tell me more how Mikal is the problem defensively and not Hart who was the main guy defensively against Franz, and was at one point -22 and finished the game a game low -19. Tell me more bro.

Steals usually come as a result of team defence. Hart is too small to defend Wagner but he was willing to sacrifice his body. Mikal isn't a stopper any more. He's a weakside guy these days.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[thebuzzardman]

we might just be learning that unless you draft a few of your top players you face a really tough team winning it all. especially nowadays.

it used to be that young teams needed to wait until they were in their primes to have a chance at winning. but more than ever this year it seems that younger, athletic teams are thriving and older teams, some who should theoretically be in their prime, are having a harder time with the speed of the game. okc, houston, detroit, san antonio should have too many young guys to be this good but it doesn't seem to matter anymore.

How the game is officiated is a factor and I think the NBA league office has the finger on the scale as usual.

Let's add it up:

NBA institutes what is effectively as close to a hard cap as they can get.

League starts calling games that benefit younger teams - ie more players that are fungible and can be turned over or are initially on cheaper deals (first 3 years)

More uncertainty towards who might win among young athletic teams is great for the gambling industry.

As usual, dumb Americans are getting played by an elite moneyed class.

Oh well. Last year and two years ago were kinda/sorta fun.



Knicks need to start that 8 year rebuild again.

[thebuzzardman]

A lot of complaining in here, myself included, but our next two games are against high school squads so I'm assuming all will be forgotten.

yep

Personally, I'm looking forward to a loss in one of these games. Hopefully the next one.

Board is cooking the way I like it now.

[Gravy]

A lot of complaining in here, myself included, but our next two games are against high school squads so I'm assuming all will be forgotten.

If we beat these g-leaguers then Mike Brown is the goat.

If we lose its cause no OG, its early, learning new offense, Mitch minutes restriction, experiments, the east is crazy goood now..etc

The excuses aren’t doing it since I’m accustomed to being berated for supporting and defending this team including the coach for the past 5 years. But I would take ownership of everything that happened for better or worse in that time period including the culmination of a conference finals run that ended disappointingly. I’d do it all over again. We had an identity and a vision and a nearly consistently upward trajectory.

Your turn to own it brown clowns. You have your utopia, this is the grand vision come to life, you drove off Randle, convinced Dolan to fire the coach, no picks until 2032 to get Mikal. we’re got the calculator out saying how great we are oh the net rating oh the ball movement what a breath of fresh air! So now I’m going to need to see something pretty damn fast. A trip to the finals was supposed to be priced in and now we look helpless against the Magic who just toy with us. We were just in the conference finals!

Oh but it must just be exclusively that a 5x all star(started in the AS game 8 months ago)3x all nba hall of fame bound big man forgot how to play. Even though he was in the conference finals the past two years with two different teams and two different coaches, no he’s now just a losing player holding us all back. Let’s just Randle him out of town too and everything will be magical. But could it be this coach is in over his head and has no idea what he’s doing? When was this dude ever a good coach? When LeBron carried him back before the iPhone was invented? The kings fired him after 31 games last year maybe we need to do the same now before this gets worse. Patience is zero. Brunson’s prime is now in jeopardy. Win now or get out. Now. Save Brunson

Fans said we would play 5 out with Deuce starting, the defense would be much better with switching, the kids would develop, no one gets injured, cause the rotation would be 11-12 deep every night, KAT would be used the right way. Its still early but why haven't these things happened yet..

[Iron Mantis]

the funniest thing is:
- KAT sucks.
- lets trade him for a top 4 player in the league.
yeah, makes sense.

Only works if bucks continue to lose
With giannis on that team they look decent

no they won't trade him for KAT. Because KAT sucks and is the reason why we are so bad. haven't you heard?

Interestingly, despite his cold streak, advanced stats has KAT's Net rating among the top on our team, and his player impact estimate is only second to Brunson.

Guys are simply frustrated because we are starting off slow after coming into the season with sky high expectations.

Some original KAT haters though are definitely using his shooting slump to grow their following.

[gavran]

Yea at that point things were coming together but I think it all fell apart because one of their biggest mistakes of not signing iHart to a 3yr deal came back to bite them. That was the catalyst for the big change… if I was in the FO and knew that you could lose a player after only having him 2 years.. I would never give out 2yr contracts.. it makes absolutely no sense.. just give a TO for the 3rd year… iHart never made any money before that, no doubt he would’ve taken 3 yrs at 8m per… just dumb

yeah they kinda fked up without a 3rd team year option. but to their defense i also feel like nobody expected ihart to play that well in his 2nd year. cause he he did suck in his 1st year with us. maybe thats why they only gave him 2 years because he wasn't really that good before he was a knick.

I think just knowing that Bird Rights rule, you have to include a 3rd year TO to everybody that you’re willing to give a 2 yr contract to because it’s literally the same exact thing.. you’re just protecting yourself in case a player has a career year. It’s the prudent move, but it’s just a testament to their consistent lack of a plan.. I really dislike this FO if you couldn’t tell lol… no FO is perfect and they made some redeeming moves, but their constant blunders are mind numbing for me

You do know that the 3rd year team option has to be accepted by the player you plan to sign right? I have no idea why people think a contract negotiation is not between 2 independemt parties. What I do know is players like the one we don't name at the age of 24 would be stupid to sign any deal with a team option at the end. And he didn't. Now add 2 and 2 together.

[Guano]

the funniest thing is:
- KAT sucks.
- lets trade him for a top 4 player in the league.
yeah, makes sense.

Only works if bucks continue to lose
With giannis on that team they look decent

no they won't trade him for KAT. Because KAT sucks and is the reason why we are so bad. haven't you heard?

Kat is the problem.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yea at that point things were coming together but I think it all fell apart because one of their biggest mistakes of not signing iHart to a 3yr deal came back to bite them. That was the catalyst for the big change… if I was in the FO and knew that you could lose a player after only having him 2 years.. I would never give out 2yr contracts.. it makes absolutely no sense.. just give a TO for the 3rd year… iHart never made any money before that, no doubt he would’ve taken 3 yrs at 8m per… just dumb

yeah they kinda fked up without a 3rd team year option. but to their defense i also feel like nobody expected ihart to play that well in his 2nd year. cause he he did suck in his 1st year with us. maybe thats why they only gave him 2 years because he wasn't really that good before he was a knick.

I think just knowing that Bird Rights rule, you have to include a 3rd year TO to everybody that you’re willing to give a 2 yr contract to because it’s literally the same exact thing.. you’re just protecting yourself in case a player has a career year. It’s the prudent move, but it’s just a testament to their consistent lack of a plan.. I really dislike this FO if you couldn’t tell lol… no FO is perfect and they made some redeeming moves, but their constant blunders are mind numbing for me

I don't hate the FO but, it isn't hard to point out the mistakes they have made along the way. They still turned around a joke of a franchise that was mired in controversy and a circus atmosphere for 20 years. They did it almost immediately. How far can they get us remains to be seen.

People are frustrated because it's been 50 some odd years since our last title. 26 years since our last finals appearance. Their patience is worn thin or completely gone. I'm enjoying the ride. It's been far too long since we were anywhere near this respectable. The FO got us here. Hope they don't fck it up!

[Obi-One]

Only works if bucks continue to lose
With giannis on that team they look decent

no they won't trade him for KAT. Because KAT sucks and is the reason why we are so bad. haven't you heard?

Interestingly, despite his cold streak, advanced stats has KAT's Net rating among the top on our team, and his player impact estimate is only second to Brunson.

Guys are simply frustrated because we are starting off slow after coming into the season with sky high expectations.

Some original KAT haters though are definitely using his shooting slump to grow their following.

This is facts. He had the highest +/- last year and is 2nd highest this year to OG

[Guano]

no they won't trade him for KAT. Because KAT sucks and is the reason why we are so bad. haven't you heard?

Interestingly, despite his cold streak, advanced stats has KAT's Net rating among the top on our team, and his player impact estimate is only second to Brunson.

Guys are simply frustrated because we are starting off slow after coming into the season with sky high expectations.

Some original KAT haters though are definitely using his shooting slump to grow their following.

This is facts. He had the highest +/- last year and is 2nd highest this year to OG

Iron don't want you to miss this key part

[JayTWill]

Says this guy





You just trying to play both sides of the field now. You don’t believe in the roster so miss me with this patience nonsense you trying to speak of now

I was speaking about having more patience with a coach and his issues after 5 weeks than I would have a coach and his issues after 5 years. I have no idea what those quotes have to do with any of that. And please let go of the "sides" argument with me. It's getting old. I care about the team. Not making the players, coach or front office look better or worse.

You do play both sides of the field. Are you saying the roster we had 5 years is the same we have now? Just last summer we had 2 blockbuster trades after having completed a big trade at the deadline. We also lost what was essentially our starting bigman in free agency. Forget the 5 years just the last 2 years we went through major roster changes. If there was a time to be patient it was last year. This is the same group now. Where is the chemistry? Where is the familiarity?

What’s so funny about this is how last year I was told to look at the Cavs and look at what Atkinson did for them. Look at this guy look at that guy all we need to do is get rid of Thibs and bring in a more modern coach who won’t hold them back.

Now I’m being told to have patience

I was the weirdo defending T**** for playing Sims early last year instead of throwing Hukporti out there the same way I defended Brown for playing Shamet early in the season and not just throwing the young guys out there while trying to establish a new system. I have also commented on Brown shortening the rotation at times recently due to injury loading up on heavy minutes on some of the starters the same way I did with the last guy. Wow! Incredible how that can happen.

I'm not too critical of Brown at the moment because I don't actually know him that well while I had seen some of the good and bad habits of the previous coach for years.

I don't know Mike Brown. I never praised the Brown hire. I don't come in here trying to dunk anyone anytime we look good with Mike Brown as the coach to make T**** look worse so please cut the nonsense with me. Playing both sides? I want the team to do well. I'm not trying to win some imaginary individual battle for "My guy" constantly whether it is a coach or a certain player.

[spree8]

yeah they kinda fked up without a 3rd team year option. but to their defense i also feel like nobody expected ihart to play that well in his 2nd year. cause he he did suck in his 1st year with us. maybe thats why they only gave him 2 years because he wasn't really that good before he was a knick.

I think just knowing that Bird Rights rule, you have to include a 3rd year TO to everybody that you’re willing to give a 2 yr contract to because it’s literally the same exact thing.. you’re just protecting yourself in case a player has a career year. It’s the prudent move, but it’s just a testament to their consistent lack of a plan.. I really dislike this FO if you couldn’t tell lol… no FO is perfect and they made some redeeming moves, but their constant blunders are mind numbing for me

You do know that the 3rd year team option has to be accepted by the player you plan to sign right? I have no idea why people think a contract negotiation is not between 2 independemt parties. What I do know is players like the one we don't name at the age of 24 would be stupid to sign any deal with a team option at the end. And he didn't. Now add 2 and 2 together.

What on earth are you blabbering about? Why wouldn’t a 24 year old player sign a 3 yr 28m contract when the sum total of his previous 4 years in the league on 3 different teams (was waived by 1, traded by another, and the 3rd team he signed with didn’t re-sign him) is a whopping 5.5m dollars lol. You don't know that he declined a contract with a TO for a third year… that’s an assumption. Telling me to add 2 and 2 together lol FOH

[spree8]

yeah they kinda fked up without a 3rd team year option. but to their defense i also feel like nobody expected ihart to play that well in his 2nd year. cause he he did suck in his 1st year with us. maybe thats why they only gave him 2 years because he wasn't really that good before he was a knick.

I think just knowing that Bird Rights rule, you have to include a 3rd year TO to everybody that you’re willing to give a 2 yr contract to because it’s literally the same exact thing.. you’re just protecting yourself in case a player has a career year. It’s the prudent move, but it’s just a testament to their consistent lack of a plan.. I really dislike this FO if you couldn’t tell lol… no FO is perfect and they made some redeeming moves, but their constant blunders are mind numbing for me

I don't hate the FO but, it isn't hard to point out the mistakes they have made along the way. They still turned around a joke of a franchise that was mired in controversy and a circus atmosphere for 20 years. They did it almost immediately. How far can they get us remains to be seen.

People are frustrated because it's been 50 some odd years since our last title. 26 years since our last finals appearance. Their patience is worn thin or completely gone. I'm enjoying the ride. It's been far too long since we were anywhere near this respectable. The FO got us here. Hope they don't fck it up!

Yea it really is a miracle that we’re here considering it was a lot of dumb luck on their part. Leon must have a leprechaun in his back pocket. Def enjoying the ride too.. sad a lot of people aren’t..

[Iron Mantis]

Interestingly, despite his cold streak, advanced stats has KAT's Net rating among the top on our team, and his player impact estimate is only second to Brunson.

Guys are simply frustrated because we are starting off slow after coming into the season with sky high expectations.

Some original KAT haters though are definitely using his shooting slump to grow their following.

This is facts. He had the highest +/- last year and is 2nd highest this year to OG

Iron don't want you to miss this key part

OG is GREAT for the Knicks. In fact, based on the teams construction, he's probably the most important piece because we need elite defenders around Brunson and KAT for this team to reach it's potential. He ties it all together.

My main issue is with OG's availability...or lack thereof. The team can't function properly without him; an important cog in the machine is M.I.A.

Guys on the team battle through discomfort. Yet he doesn't play at all if there's a hint of discomfort....then the team struggles to find defense in his absence....and the board goes into full meltdown mode.

[3toheadmelo]

Interestingly, despite his cold streak, advanced stats has KAT's Net rating among the top on our team, and his player impact estimate is only second to Brunson.

Guys are simply frustrated because we are starting off slow after coming into the season with sky high expectations.

Some original KAT haters though are definitely using his shooting slump to grow their following.

This is facts. He had the highest +/- last year and is 2nd highest this year to OG

Iron don't want you to miss this key part

Be better iron!!!!

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[Iron Mantis]

This is facts. He had the highest +/- last year and is 2nd highest this year to OG

Iron don't want you to miss this key part

Be better iron!!!!

Read on Twitter

?s=46

See my above post

[TKKnicks1]

So we now banking on OGs health for a finals run... Ya not sure I would take that bet.