Fake Trade Thread #7

[Chapelchilla]

Oh boy, lots of nuances here, lol

I don't think anyone is really saying that we can't have more than one "star". That's an odd statement.

Miller and Kon actually fit nicely. They both won a LOT of games in college too. Fitting a Boozer/Wilson/Peterson guy with them seems like a smooth fit too.

Melo makes by far the most $ and should be by the best player and leader. Right?
Is he a leader? Is he a winning player or more of an entertaining when available player?
Is paying Melo 50 million dollars a year next season the right allocation of the salary cap? Are his ankles gonna hold up over time? IDK.
If the team has more information about his injuries and prognosis they can make better decisions than we can.

If Melo gets his shot going soon and stays healthy we will be more fun to watch but probably still not winning more than losing. If we got a good return for him, added a top 5 talent AND used the money saved elsewhere next off season is that a bad move?
Hmm

[yosemiteben]

I'm not of the belief that moving Lamelo for bad value will improve the team. With that said, the narrative on these historic trades is just not accurate.

We won 21 games, decided the issue with the team was guys like Rozier, PJ, Hayward.

We moved pretty much every valuable piece we could other than Melo as part of a larger shakeup of the team to accumulate draft assets. I don't think anyone thought we'd win more games the next season after this move, and it's complete revisionist history to say the motivation in moving those guys was to improve our win total.

Decided guys like Nick Richards, Mark Williams, Nurkic were the issues.

Same here. We moved these guys not because we thought we'd immediately be better without them. We moved Nurk for Sexton + draft capital, which is a totally defensible move. We moved Nick for Okogie and 3 2nds, which I also think was solid value. The Mark move has been talked to death, but it is pretty indisputable that his injury history and shake ability to stay healthy was actually an issue. In all of these trades, we received draft capital and that pretty clearly was a motivation for the trade.

Traded PJ, Rozier, Hayward, Richards, Mark Williams, Nurkic for Grant, Sexton, Tre Mann and Liam McNeely.

and yes I know we have picks too, but not doing anything with them isn't helping this team win games.

Well obviously if you don't emphasize the draft pick capital you're going to be left thinking there's no plan. I do agree with the general approach that you don't go blow your draft capital if you don't know what pieces you're building around.

[JMAC3]

I'm not of the belief that moving Lamelo for bad value will improve the team. With that said, the narrative on these historic trades is just not accurate.

We won 21 games, decided the issue with the team was guys like Rozier, PJ, Hayward.

We moved pretty much every valuable piece we could other than Melo as part of a larger shakeup of the team to accumulate draft assets. I don't think anyone thought we'd win more games the next season after this move, and it's complete revisionist history to say the motivation in moving those guys was to improve our win total.

Decided guys like Nick Richards, Mark Williams, Nurkic were the issues.

Same here. We moved these guys not because we thought we'd immediately be better without them. We moved Nurk for Sexton + draft capital, which is a totally defensible move. We moved Nick for Okogie and 3 2nds, which I also think was solid value. The Mark move has been talked to death, but it is pretty indisputable that his injury history and shake ability to stay healthy was actually an issue. In all of these trades, we received draft capital and that pretty clearly was a motivation for the trade.

Traded PJ, Rozier, Hayward, Richards, Mark Williams, Nurkic for Grant, Sexton, Tre Mann and Liam McNeely.

and yes I know we have picks too, but not doing anything with them isn't helping this team win games.

Well obviously if you don't emphasize the draft pick capital you're going to be left thinking there's no plan. I do agree with the general approach that you don't go blow your draft capital if you don't know what pieces you're building around.

So we made all those trades with no intention to get better. Which will also be the intention of trading LaMelo and Miles.

So we will make 8 trades in a row with no intention of getting better or winning more games over period of 3 season. Sounds smart, can't believe I am still doubting this front office.

Meanwhile as I pointed out Raptors, Heat and Hawks all made trades with an attempt to improve the team and the trade did that. What suckers, I bet they wish they could trade like we do.

[yosemiteben]

So we made all those trades with no intention to get better.

Not in the short term in the way you're trying to frame it. Ownership and the FO came in and constantly talked about tearing down and rebuilding slowly and sustainably. What are you pointing to in order to substantiate your theory that these moves were made because the team thought they would immediately improve their win total?

Meanwhile as I pointed out Raptors, Heat and Hawks all made trades with an attempt to improve the team and the trade did that. What suckers, I bet they wish they could trade like we do.

Comparing us to the Raptors, Heat, and Hawks in 2023 is silly. ATL had just made the ECF and had every incentive to be aggressive to build on their core (which they **** up 4 years in a row). And as you know, they fired their GM halfway through the timeline you're praising them for.

Why don't you lay out all those aggressive moves from MIA? Trading away Butler after the complete train wreck that became for their franchise, and then trading for Powell. If we're stretching this to include a 3 season run, is there any other move of note that happened during that window? I guess if you want to pat them on the back for giving stupid value for Rozier, go for it.

And on TOR, they also fired their GM half way through the timeline you're praising them for.

[JMAC3]

So we made all those trades with no intention to get better.

Not in the short term in the way you're trying to frame it. Ownership and the FO came in and constantly talked about tearing down and rebuilding slowly and sustainably. What are you pointing to in order to substantiate your theory that these moves were made because the team thought they would immediately improve their win total?

Meanwhile as I pointed out Raptors, Heat and Hawks all made trades with an attempt to improve the team and the trade did that. What suckers, I bet they wish they could trade like we do.

Comparing us to the Raptors, Heat, and Hawks in 2023 is silly. ATL had just made the ECF and had every incentive to be aggressive to build on their core (which they **** up 4 years in a row). And as you know, they fired their GM halfway through the timeline you're praising them for.

Why don't you lay out all those aggressive moves from MIA? Trading away Butler after the complete train wreck that became for their franchise, and then trading for Powell. If we're stretching this to include a 3 season run, is there any other move of note that happened during that window? I guess if you want to pat them on the back for giving stupid value for Rozier, go for it.

And on TOR, they also fired their GM half way through the timeline you're praising them for.

Where did I say let's compare the Hawks, Raptors and Heat since 2023? You are just inventing stuff at this point lol.

I am simply pointing out how easy it is for every other team to improve their team for pennies on the dollar, meanwhile we have more assets than any team and our front office can't figure it out.

Better to tank for 3-4 years, then try to get good to make sure they can keep their jobs as long as possible. If they actually made trades to improve the team and it didn't work they would be a failure. Right now you can't fire anyone because we are failing on purpose.

But yes you are right, teams can make terrible moves and still be further along then the Charlotte Hornets. Raptors waited too long to trade OG and Siakam, Heat traded for Rozier, Hawks made plenty of mistakes. None of it matters, they can make bad moves and still be better than us. Is that the point I should be pointing out instead?

but yes, if we keep being patient in another decade we could be the new Thunder.

[yosemiteben]

Where did I say let's compare the Hawks, Raptors and Heat since 2023? You are just inventing stuff at this point lol.

A couple days ago you specifically detailed the Hawks history over that time period. I assumed you were going back to that, but guess I was wrong.

[Diop]

the Kon vs Ball arguments are stupid as ideally we would have both playing great. there is zero need for a pissing match between them.

with their passing i could see them actually enjoy playing together.

the argument about whether Ball should be traded has more to do with his reliability and whether he is completely happy here.

[JustBuzzin]

Every time someone mentions trading Lamelo because of his health it turns into we trading him because we want to get rid of talent.

No you just can't comprehend, we trading him because he can't stay healthy.

But people like playing this game every season so let's continue to do it. Every year I will be saying the same thing.

[Liver_Pooty]

Panthers traded cmc due to health. Hes turned into a hall of famer. Just saying.

[JustBuzzin]

Panthers traded cmc due to health. Hes turned into a hall of famer. Just saying.

CMC was on a HOF path before he got traded.

Panthers traded CMC because they wanted to rebuild.

[HornetJail]

Panthers traded cmc due to health. Hes turned into a hall of famer. Just saying.

CMC was on a HOF path before he got traded.

Panthers traded CMC because they wanted to rebuild.

And we got literally nothing out of it. If you want to track where all 4 of those picks went, it's pretty much become DJ Johnson. Thank you for making my case that trading an injured star for pennies on the dollar is a pants on head stupid ass move

[JDR720]

To be fair CMC with the Panthers was an All-Pro, top 3 (maybe even #1) RB in the league.

LaMelo is far closer to Zion than CMC.

[fatlever]

rg3 is melo's football comp

[yosemiteben]

Every time someone mentions trading Lamelo because of his health it turns into we trading him because we want to get rid of talent.

No you just can't comprehend, we trading him because he can't stay healthy.

If you aren't trying to move him to acquire talent, then even a partially healthy Melo is helping us more than the nothing you're trading him for.

That's why that point keeps getting made.

[SWedd523]

Every time someone mentions trading Lamelo because of his health it turns into we trading him because we want to get rid of talent.

No you just can't comprehend, we trading him because he can't stay healthy.

If you aren't trying to move him to acquire talent, then even a partially healthy Melo is helping us more than the nothing you're trading him for.

That's why that point keeps getting made.

the hornets strategy hasn't been about acquiring short term talent for like 3 years now. I don't see how you can use this^ defense but also be for continuing to build through the draft

[JustBuzzin]

Panthers traded cmc due to health. Hes turned into a hall of famer. Just saying.

CMC was on a HOF path before he got traded.

Panthers traded CMC because they wanted to rebuild.

And we got literally nothing out of it. If you want to track where all 4 of those picks went, it's pretty much become DJ Johnson. Thank you for making my case that trading an injured star for pennies on the dollar is a pants on head stupid ass move

We didn't win with CMC or LaMelo


You guys are obsessed with stars who don't contribute to winning.

Every year it's the same damn excuse. Just give LaMelo more time to get healthy. Every season he let's you down.

I'll just let you guys keep hoping. It's pretty obvious LaMelo has chronic ankle issues. But I guess it will get better with age.

[yosemiteben]

Every time someone mentions trading Lamelo because of his health it turns into we trading him because we want to get rid of talent.

No you just can't comprehend, we trading him because he can't stay healthy.

If you aren't trying to move him to acquire talent, then even a partially healthy Melo is helping us more than the nothing you're trading him for.

That's why that point keeps getting made.

the hornets strategy hasn't been about acquiring short term talent for like 3 years now. I don't see how you can use this^ defense but also be for continuing to build through the draft

I don't understand your point. I'm not making a defense of anything other than don't trade Melo for no value.

JB's whole thing is let's just dump Melo and not care about what we get back, it'll be addition by subtraction.

ETA: Also this 3 years thing is not really a relevant timeline. We had a complete ownership and FO change in 2024, which is also when we moved Rozier, Hayward, and PJ. There hasn't been 3 seasons since we completely reoriented our team.

[JustBuzzin]

If you aren't trying to move him to acquire talent, then even a partially healthy Melo is helping us more than the nothing you're trading him for.

That's why that point keeps getting made.

the hornets strategy hasn't been about acquiring short term talent for like 3 years now. I don't see how you can use this^ defense but also be for continuing to build through the draft

I don't understand your point. I'm not making a defense of anything other than don't trade Melo for no value.

JB's whole thing is let's just dump Melo and not care about what we get back, it'll be addition by subtraction.

My point is yeah unfortunately we have to trade him at a low value. That's kind of my point.

Why is his value so low? It's because he can't stay on the court.

My point is why would we continue to keep him with that massive contract. You can't build a solid foundation if your foundation is cracked.

Again I like LaMelo as a person. I'm just ready to move on from the injuries. My goodness do you guys not get tired of not having our best player for most of the season?

We dealing with a Kawhi situation except LaMelo is much younger. That's kind of scary. The longer we keep him the more we might really be stuck with that contract.

So yeah bash me for wanting to move on.

[JustBuzzin]

I do get you guys who want him to get healthy. In a perfect world LaMelo is definitely the pg you need with Kon/Miller. If only he could stay healthy.

[JustBuzzin]

If Miller didn't have his own health issues I would definitely be down for giving LaMelo another season to get healthy.

But the fact of the matter is both are dealing with their own issues. But LaMelo is the bigger problem because of his massive contract. We have yet to pay Miller yet.