Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[manjusaka]

Barnes has leveled up while taking a step back on offense. You can kind of see he is letting the team underutilize him offensively while still making all the right plays. He had great feel in previous season obviously but it’s at elite tier this season. Need him to stay healthy going into the playoffs.

He’s quietly been very good in the 5-15 foot area. Finishing at the rim needs work still. Teams aren’t leaving him open for three anymore.

Also, he’s getting good at turning the corner going to his left. Most right handed players are quicker going right but for him it’s definitely the opposite.

Anyway, I’m not surprised at this at all. He’s definitely taking a backseat for the sake of the team, which is the right move. His best assets are defence and facilitating anyway. I’m happy to keep using him that way. Come playoffs, I expect him to turn it on, being more aggressive as a scorer. The truth is he’s got the highest extra gear on the team because of his physical gifts and insane processing.

I would say SB’s current role in offence fits his nature instincts, in which he is a playmaker not go to scorer. Therefore taking a step back actually is better for him offensively. Having Ingram in the lineup benefits him.

SB had made a huge strides on scoring, his midrange and open 3s this year showed much improvement, especially comparing to his rookie year. Right now on the court he is focusing on making the right play, not forcing to score, even though sometimes the best play is for him to score.

[HiJiNX]

Barnes has leveled up while taking a step back on offense. You can kind of see he is letting the team underutilize him offensively while still making all the right plays. He had great feel in previous season obviously but it’s at elite tier this season. Need him to stay healthy going into the playoffs.

He’s quietly been very good in the 5-15 foot area. Finishing at the rim needs work still. Teams aren’t leaving him open for three anymore.

Also, he’s getting good at turning the corner going to his left. Most right handed players are quicker going right but for him it’s definitely the opposite.

Anyway, I’m not surprised at this at all. He’s definitely taking a backseat for the sake of the team, which is the right move. His best assets are defence and facilitating anyway. I’m happy to keep using him that way. Come playoffs, I expect him to turn it on, being more aggressive as a scorer. The truth is he’s got the highest extra gear on the team because of his physical gifts and insane processing.

I would say SB’s current role in offence fits his nature instincts, in which he is a playmaker not go to scorer. Therefore taking a step back actually is better for him offensively. Having Ingram in the lineup benefits him.

SB had made a huge strides on scoring, his midrange and open 3s this year showed much improvement, especially comparing to his rookie year. Right now on the court he is focusing on making the right play, not forcing to score, even though sometimes the best play is for him to score.

The argument from me has never been to make him a scorer — like you said, that’s not who he is. My argument has always been to put the ball in his hands more, particularly from 15 feet in so he can get other folks easy baskets.

[Tha Cynic]

He’s quietly been very good in the 5-15 foot area. Finishing at the rim needs work still. Teams aren’t leaving him open for three anymore.

Also, he’s getting good at turning the corner going to his left. Most right handed players are quicker going right but for him it’s definitely the opposite.

Anyway, I’m not surprised at this at all. He’s definitely taking a backseat for the sake of the team, which is the right move. His best assets are defence and facilitating anyway. I’m happy to keep using him that way. Come playoffs, I expect him to turn it on, being more aggressive as a scorer. The truth is he’s got the highest extra gear on the team because of his physical gifts and insane processing.

I would say SB’s current role in offence fits his nature instincts, in which he is a playmaker not go to scorer. Therefore taking a step back actually is better for him offensively. Having Ingram in the lineup benefits him.

SB had made a huge strides on scoring, his midrange and open 3s this year showed much improvement, especially comparing to his rookie year. Right now on the court he is focusing on making the right play, not forcing to score, even though sometimes the best play is for him to score.

The argument from me has never been to make him a scorer — like you said, that’s not who he is. My argument has always been to put the ball in his hands more, particularly from 15 feet in so he can get other folks easy baskets.

There are a handful of guys in the league who read the floor the way Barnes does. There is no reason why the ball should not touch his hands nearly every posesssiom he is on the court. His ability to make the hockey pass that leads to the open look is amazing. We went away from that after we took the lead.

[HiJiNX]

I would say SB’s current role in offence fits his nature instincts, in which he is a playmaker not go to scorer. Therefore taking a step back actually is better for him offensively. Having Ingram in the lineup benefits him.

SB had made a huge strides on scoring, his midrange and open 3s this year showed much improvement, especially comparing to his rookie year. Right now on the court he is focusing on making the right play, not forcing to score, even though sometimes the best play is for him to score.

The argument from me has never been to make him a scorer — like you said, that’s not who he is. My argument has always been to put the ball in his hands more, particularly from 15 feet in so he can get other folks easy baskets.

There are a handful of guys in the league who read the floor the way Barnes does. There is no reason why the ball should not touch his hands nearly every posesssiom he is on the court. His ability to make the hockey pass that leads to the open look is amazing. We went away from that after we took the lead.

You get it.

One play that stood out to me last night was Scottie had the ball after a board and he’s dribbling up the court surveying as Gradey is drifting to the corner and Mamu is running the floor. Scottie slows down and motions for Gradey to come toward Scottie at the top of the arc to get the ball which draws Gradey’s defender up top leaving Mamu WIDE OPEN underneath (but Gradey misses him). Anyway, it’s that kind of stuff that Scottie sees.

Like you said, Barnes needs to touch the ball way more because he knows where to go with it. I’ll leave with the three or four bad possessions per game where he forces an awkward shot or commits a bad turnover. Scottie amplified everyone around him and makes the team collectively lethal. It’s a knock on certain guys bball IQ (I’m looking at RJ and Quickley) that they’re not getting the ball to him more. It’s like, don’t they see that we get a good look almost every time he touches it??

[Tha Cynic]

The argument from me has never been to make him a scorer — like you said, that’s not who he is. My argument has always been to put the ball in his hands more, particularly from 15 feet in so he can get other folks easy baskets.

There are a handful of guys in the league who read the floor the way Barnes does. There is no reason why the ball should not touch his hands nearly every posesssiom he is on the court. His ability to make the hockey pass that leads to the open look is amazing. We went away from that after we took the lead.

You get it.

One play that stood out to me last night was Scottie had the ball after a board and he’s dribbling up the court surveying as Gradey is drifting to the corner and Mamu is running the floor. Scottie slows down and motions for Gradey to come toward Scottie at the top of the arc to get the ball which draws Gradey’s defender up top leaving Mamu WIDE OPEN underneath (but Gradey misses him). Anyway, it’s that kind of stuff that Scottie sees.

Like you said, Barnes needs to touch the ball way more because he knows where to go with it. I’ll leave with the three or four bad possessions per game where he forces an awkward shot or commits a bad turnover. Scottie amplified everyone around him and makes the team collectively lethal. It’s a knock on certain guys bball IQ (I’m looking at RJ and Quickley) that they’re not getting the ball to him more. It’s like, don’t they see that we get a good look almost every time he touches it??

I know exactly which play you’re talking about haha. Barnes just looked at Dick and was like… whatever lol.

The issue I had with this game and it has been a big theme with IQ is that there are moments when the obvious play is to pass to Barnes and IQ will look at Barnes (probably think to himself - Barnes isn’t efficient on offense) and move the ball somewhere else that leads to a nothing play. This to me shows very low IQ from a guy like IQ. You’re killing a play and not realizing Barnes almost always makes the right play meaning he will most likely not shoot it. We saw way too much of this this game where a couple of guys were very clearly making it obvious they were trying not to pass the ball to Barnes.

Yes he was inefficient last year, but the dude makes the right reads and has actually been one of your most efficient players this season. Playing offense like that will not be good long term.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This is a top half court offense team that you guys are nitpicking

[Tha Cynic]

We’re striving for greatness

[HiJiNX]

There are a handful of guys in the league who read the floor the way Barnes does. There is no reason why the ball should not touch his hands nearly every posesssiom he is on the court. His ability to make the hockey pass that leads to the open look is amazing. We went away from that after we took the lead.

You get it.

One play that stood out to me last night was Scottie had the ball after a board and he’s dribbling up the court surveying as Gradey is drifting to the corner and Mamu is running the floor. Scottie slows down and motions for Gradey to come toward Scottie at the top of the arc to get the ball which draws Gradey’s defender up top leaving Mamu WIDE OPEN underneath (but Gradey misses him). Anyway, it’s that kind of stuff that Scottie sees.

Like you said, Barnes needs to touch the ball way more because he knows where to go with it. I’ll leave with the three or four bad possessions per game where he forces an awkward shot or commits a bad turnover. Scottie amplified everyone around him and makes the team collectively lethal. It’s a knock on certain guys bball IQ (I’m looking at RJ and Quickley) that they’re not getting the ball to him more. It’s like, don’t they see that we get a good look almost every time he touches it??

I know exactly which play you’re talking about haha. Barnes just looked at Dick and was like… whatever lol.

The issue I had with this game and it has been a big theme with IQ is that there are moments when the obvious play is to pass to Barnes and IQ will look at Barnes (probably think to himself - Barnes isn’t efficient on offense) and move the ball somewhere else that leads to a nothing play. This to me shows very low IQ from a guy like IQ. You’re killing a play and not realizing Barnes almost always makes the right play meaning he will most likely not shoot it. We saw way too much of this this game where a couple of guys were very clearly making it obvious they were trying not to pass the ball to Barnes.

Yes he was inefficient last year, but the dude makes the right reads and has actually been one of your most efficient players this season. Playing offense like that will not be good long term.

I absolutely agree with you. It’s been a theme since preseason. Eventually it’s going to lead to frustration or bad offence or both.

Man, the amount of games of basketball I’ve won by passing to “bad players” haha. You gotta make the right play. And bad players tend to become good players when you trust them. Plus rhythm is a thing.

[HiJiNX]

We’re striving for greatness

And thinking long term. BI can’t beat a double team or get to the rim effectively. IQ is the same. RJ is the same. They’ll need to move the ball when defences tighten up in higher leverage games.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Sub out IQ looking off Barnes for Fred, and you can see why I'm skeptical of this line of thinking. It's narrative forming. Like, it's not hero ball that's the problem but who the hero gets to be.

Right now everyone on the team is moving the ball. You have Shead like top 5 in rim assists in the league, ffs, off the bench. Ingram is passing out of doubles in the clutch. If this team is heading for chemistry issues because Scottie doesn't always get the ball when he wants it, then there really isn't an NBA team that can function.

[HumbleRen]

Sub out IQ looking off Barnes for Fred, and you can see why I'm skeptical of this line of thinking. It's narrative forming. Like, it's not hero ball that's the problem but who the hero gets to be.

Right now everyone on the team is moving the ball. You have Shead like top 5 in rim assists in the league, ffs, off the bench. Ingram is passing out of doubles in the clutch. If this team is heading for chemistry issues because Scottie doesn't always get the ball when he wants it, then there really isn't an NBA team that can function.

Yeah. I think people just want Scottie to be this player in their mind that he’s just simply not.

BI is the only guy on the team who can generate double teams, this notion that he can’t is utter nonsense lol.

Scottie is not a creator, he’s a connector. He extends the play, he’s not creating them. He’s in his perfect role, sometimes he’ll average 15 points, sometimes he might have a good night and find himself with 25+.

Sometimes players are going to look off Scottie, whoopti doo. He’s not Jayson Tatum or something. We have a top 5 halfcourt offence BECAUSE Scottie is touching the ball less. We have a top 10 offence BECAUSE Scottie is currently having the lowest usage of his career since 2022-2023.

He’s doing more with less and that’s exactly why he’s successful this season.

[anotherhomer]

scottie's been always a connector not scorer

[dTox]

Guys, we need to let go of this notion that Scottie is being under utilized on offense, he showed last 2 years that he's just incapable of being more than a 19-20 ppg scorer on a regular basis, and this current role is just right for him, we just have to accept that he is being optimized in his current role, that's why it's leaving you wanting for more. If we had a better scorer on the team, I am pretty confident that the ball would have found that man as much as you wanted for Scottie, we just don't have that talent, especially to play the offense that you want them to. This team has a ceiling, we all came in this season expecting a first round exit at best (or maybe just make it to the play-in), anything more is just icing on the cake. You are expecting an offense led by a top 5-8 scoring / playmaker, on a team that lacks that type of player.

[everdiso]

Sub out IQ looking off Barnes for Fred, and you can see why I'm skeptical of this line of thinking. It's narrative forming. Like, it's not hero ball that's the problem but who the hero gets to be.

Right now everyone on the team is moving the ball. You have Shead like top 5 in rim assists in the league, ffs, off the bench. Ingram is passing out of doubles in the clutch. If this team is heading for chemistry issues because Scottie doesn't always get the ball when he wants it, then there really isn't an NBA team that can function.

Yeah. I think people just want Scottie to be this player in their mind that he’s just simply not.

BI is the only guy on the team who can generate double teams, this notion that he can’t is utter nonsense lol.

Scottie is not a creator, he’s a connector. He extends the play, he’s not creating them. He’s in his perfect role, sometimes he’ll average 15 points, sometimes he might have a good night and find himself with 25+.

Sometimes players are going to look off Scottie, whoopti doo. He’s not Jayson Tatum or something. We have a top 5 halfcourt offence BECAUSE Scottie is touching the ball less. We have a top 10 offence BECAUSE Scottie is currently having the lowest usage of his career since 2022-2023.

He’s doing more with less and that’s exactly why he’s successful this season.

The only year scottie had significantly higher usage than this year was last year's tank year where there was never more than 2-3 actual starters in the lineup.

[HumbleRen]

Sub out IQ looking off Barnes for Fred, and you can see why I'm skeptical of this line of thinking. It's narrative forming. Like, it's not hero ball that's the problem but who the hero gets to be.

Right now everyone on the team is moving the ball. You have Shead like top 5 in rim assists in the league, ffs, off the bench. Ingram is passing out of doubles in the clutch. If this team is heading for chemistry issues because Scottie doesn't always get the ball when he wants it, then there really isn't an NBA team that can function.

Yeah. I think people just want Scottie to be this player in their mind that he’s just simply not.

BI is the only guy on the team who can generate double teams, this notion that he can’t is utter nonsense lol.

Scottie is not a creator, he’s a connector. He extends the play, he’s not creating them. He’s in his perfect role, sometimes he’ll average 15 points, sometimes he might have a good night and find himself with 25+.

Sometimes players are going to look off Scottie, whoopti doo. He’s not Jayson Tatum or something. We have a top 5 halfcourt offence BECAUSE Scottie is touching the ball less. We have a top 10 offence BECAUSE Scottie is currently having the lowest usage of his career since 2022-2023.

He’s doing more with less and that’s exactly why he’s successful this season.

The only year scottie had significantly higher usage than this year was last year's tank year where there was never more than 2-3 actual starters in the lineup.

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

[TheGeneral99]

Someone posted on Reddit, but go to the video at the 29:29 mark. Kenrick Perkins said that at summer league in Vegas, Scottie came up to him and said the media was sleeping on the Raptors and that we would be a very dangerous team this year.

Also gave some nice tidbits on Darko, noting that when Darko was an assistant on OKC he was a passionate, fiery, smart ass dude who wasn't afraid to call out the star players during film sessions, and hold everyone accountable. He told a specific story about him calling out Westbrook being lazy on D.

Watch on YouTube

[everdiso]

Yeah. I think people just want Scottie to be this player in their mind that he’s just simply not.

BI is the only guy on the team who can generate double teams, this notion that he can’t is utter nonsense lol.

Scottie is not a creator, he’s a connector. He extends the play, he’s not creating them. He’s in his perfect role, sometimes he’ll average 15 points, sometimes he might have a good night and find himself with 25+.

Sometimes players are going to look off Scottie, whoopti doo. He’s not Jayson Tatum or something. We have a top 5 halfcourt offence BECAUSE Scottie is touching the ball less. We have a top 10 offence BECAUSE Scottie is currently having the lowest usage of his career since 2022-2023.

He’s doing more with less and that’s exactly why he’s successful this season.

The only year scottie had significantly higher usage than this year was last year's tank year where there was never more than 2-3 actual starters in the lineup.

His usage was higher the last 2 years.

Yeah down 1% from 2yrs ago. Negligible really.

[HangTime]

Funnily enough, in the exact role Nurse had him in from day 1 and half this board was up in arms about

Sort of. While his usage is down this season (imo Barrett is probably a tad too high), he's still being used to initiate offense with his passing a lot more than his rookie season. In his rookie season he was mostly scoring off scraps and his passing wasn't used to any primary degree. Watching the games right now it's still pretty clear he has a big role on both ends of the floor. And statistically he's still not really all far off from when he was the primary scorer/handler during our tank years.

It's also still fairly obvious that the team's offense runs better when him or Shead are the "point guards" of the team compared to anyone else. He is being used like KG was on the 08 Celtics.

Strange, I feel Barnes has been playing PG very little this year, and that has been a good thing. He is running the fast break, but is almost never initiating offence out of the half court, as far as my eye test goes.

Barnes as a half court PG was a failed experiment, as far as I am concerned.

Last year, was an extreme case IMO.
It was "designed to fail" with the surrounding pieces.
A bunch of young guys, they're playing out of position, and he was the lead defender.

I think if you put Scottie on last year's Pistons team (in place of Cade), and you asked him to create, They would have been better, more balanced team.
and he would be to be sweeper on defence, with Asuar as the primary.

He would had a way easier time creating.

I still think he can run point.

[VanWest82]

The other side of the coin is the trade off we make defensively when Scottie has the ball more. I’ve always felt the most impactful version of him is as a defensive do-it-all star which means he’s more like a #2/3 on offense (i.e. secondary creator/connector, secondary or even tertiary scorer).

I’m beating a dead horse at this point but the lift Scottie has been giving us (and specifically the starters) defensively has been game changing. We didn’t really see that last couple of seasons outside of spurts; now it’s an every night thing, and the overall impact leaves him looking like our best player by quite a bit.

[raptorforlife88]

I don't actually think Scottie needs to take many more shots or anything, but I think people talking about how some fans just want Scottie to be taking more shots and be a bigger scorer are misreading a lot of posts in this thread.

I don't think he needs to take more shots to get his scoring numbers higher (I think he could stand to be a bit more aggressive and flaily to get some more free throws though), but I do think he needs to be more involved in getting touches on offense to play that role of connector/facilitator.

I feel like quite often he's very good at making the pass before the pass and reading how a play is going to develop early. So I think in that way his ability could be maximized which also helps others get easier shots as well.

It may just be Darko gives Scottie more plays off on that end now in order to let him go harder defensively, and if that's the case I understand that.