Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Clay Davis]

I'm fine with Scottie's stats as long as we're winning. With the way he plays, any win is reducible to his activity.

The rizz... of statistical... transcendence... FAH!

[Godaddycurse]

It always bothered me seeing Scottie have low rebound games. IMO there's no reason he shouldn't be averaging atleast 8 even with Poeltl out there.

I'm glad to see more effort from him recently

There are some games where he defends the PoA and is out of position for rebounds

[manjusaka]

Scottie is at his best, flourishes being the facilitator, defensive floor leader, communicator and secondary/garbage scorer. He is the modern day Scottie Pippen with better post defense. He's the jack of all trades type that every winning team needs.

SB currently is the modern day Pippen. The way he improved his shooting this year gives me some hope on his scoring upside, but it still needs a few years to develop. Scottie needs a scorer like BI right now.

[tsherkin]

Scottie needs a scorer like BI right now.

He likely always will, and that's fine. We've found a way to use him quite effectively, and we should keep focusing on that. We've known this forever, since before he was drafted, but we'll see what happens with his 3pt shooting in particular, because it makes a big difference for him when that's falling.

He's looking good.

[manjusaka]

Scottie needs a scorer like BI right now.

He likely always will, and that's fine. We've found a way to use him quite effectively, and we should keep focusing on that. We've known this forever, since before he was drafted, but we'll see what happens with his 3pt shooting in particular, because it makes a big difference for him when that's falling.

He's looking good.

On the other hand SB covers BI’s weaknesses. They fits with each other. There is a good chance we will lock up BI after his current contract if he can stay healthy.

[tsherkin]

On the other hand SB covers BI’s weaknesses. They fits with each other. There is a good chance we will lock up BI after his current contract if he can stay healthy.

The synergy between them is strong both ways, absolutely. It's worked out quite well so far.

[Godaddycurse]

Really like the changes to barnes' shot diet this year vs last

% FGA last year vs this year
0-3 ft 21.9% vs 31.3%
16-3pt 8.2% vs 5.7%
3pt 26.3% to 21.7%

% FG Ast'd
2p 45.2% vs 56.3%
3p 73.7% vs 87.5%

corner 3 FGA
13.2% vs 26.2% (although his shooting percentages on these are actually lower than last year)

[Duffman100]

Scottie needs a scorer like BI right now.

He likely always will, and that's fine. We've found a way to use him quite effectively, and we should keep focusing on that. We've known this forever, since before he was drafted, but we'll see what happens with his 3pt shooting in particular, because it makes a big difference for him when that's falling.

He's looking good.

20, 8 and 5 with 1.5 and 1.5 on 51/39/86, This is exactly what we need from him.

I'm curious what he'll look like 26-30 years old.

[anotherhomer]

Scottie needs a scorer like BI right now.

He likely always will, and that's fine. We've found a way to use him quite effectively, and we should keep focusing on that. We've known this forever, since before he was drafted, but we'll see what happens with his 3pt shooting in particular, because it makes a big difference for him when that's falling.

He's looking good.

20, 8 and 5 with 1.5 and 1.5 on 51/39/86, This is exactly what we need from him.

I'm curious what he'll look like 26-30 years old.

the best case scenario is a baby-giannis

[hype_2004]

Scottie is at his best, flourishes being the facilitator, defensive floor leader, communicator and secondary/garbage scorer. He is the modern day Scottie Pippen with better post defense. He's the jack of all trades type that every winning team needs.

SB currently is the modern day Pippen. The way he improved his shooting this year gives me some hope on his scoring upside, but it still needs a few years to develop. Scottie needs a scorer like BI right now.

Everyday man's MJ and modern day Scottie, we might have something really special here

[hype_2004]

He likely always will, and that's fine. We've found a way to use him quite effectively, and we should keep focusing on that. We've known this forever, since before he was drafted, but we'll see what happens with his 3pt shooting in particular, because it makes a big difference for him when that's falling.

He's looking good.

20, 8 and 5 with 1.5 and 1.5 on 51/39/86, This is exactly what we need from him.

I'm curious what he'll look like 26-30 years old.

the best case scenario is a baby-giannis

I suspect 22-25p/10+r/7+as with 3+ stocks at his maximum peak potential quite literally a DPOY/MVP candidate and the best 2 way player in the league this side of Victor Wembanyama.

[LLJ]

In terms of advanced stats this season--win shares, +/-, defensive win shares, VORP, even PER-- he's still the best player on the team by a fair margin. You might think RJ or Ingram have better advanced numbers than him this season given their usage. You would be wrong.

His defensive activity in the past tended to fall off as the season went on and the 82 game grind settled in. The hope here is by having Ingram take on the biggest load offensively, it allows Scottie to have the energy to be the KG/Pippen/Lowry his game is best suited for.

[YogurtProducer]

Scottie is the DPOY and MIP frontrunner candidate prove me wrong!

0% chance Scottie wins MIP when his counting stats haven't moved. Just reality of it.

Not to mention he really hasn't improved significantly at all - he just is finally in a role that makes sense for him. He could have been doing this for the last 2 years if he wasn't the de-facto #1

[dTox]

Scottie is the DPOY and MIP frontrunner candidate prove me wrong!

0% chance Scottie wins MIP when his counting stats haven't moved. Just reality of it.

Not to mention he really hasn't improved significantly at all - he just is finally in a role that makes sense for him. He could have been doing this for the last 2 years if he wasn't the de-facto #1

His defense is much improved, but alas, they will never consider that for MIP, it's also hard to quantify those improvements on D. Regardless, I would still say the following players have a lead on MIP race against Scottie:

Deni Avdija
Maxey
Sengun
Ajay Mitchell

[HumbleRen]

Scottie is the DPOY and MIP frontrunner candidate prove me wrong!

0% chance Scottie wins MIP when his counting stats haven't moved. Just reality of it.

Not to mention he really hasn't improved significantly at all - he just is finally in a role that makes sense for him. He could have been doing this for the last 2 years if he wasn't the de-facto #1

His defense is much improved, but alas, they will never consider that for MIP, it's also hard to quantify those improvements on D. Regardless, I would still say the following players have a lead on MIP race against Scottie:

Deni Avdija
Maxey
Sengun
Ajay Mitchell

Jalen Duren is the clear favourite imo.

Went from rotation caliber player to an all star caliber.

[Madvillainy2004]

0% chance Scottie wins MIP when his counting stats haven't moved. Just reality of it.

Not to mention he really hasn't improved significantly at all - he just is finally in a role that makes sense for him. He could have been doing this for the last 2 years if he wasn't the de-facto #1

His defense is much improved, but alas, they will never consider that for MIP, it's also hard to quantify those improvements on D. Regardless, I would still say the following players have a lead on MIP race against Scottie:

Deni Avdija
Maxey
Sengun
Ajay Mitchell

Jalen Duren is the clear favourite imo.

Went from rotation caliber player to an all star caliber.

I have Deni and Duren neck and neck i put a touch more value in being a perimeter creator and going from 16 ppg to 26 with better efficiency is insanely impressive. Duren has been awesome too tho really close race.

[TheGeneral99]

Scottie is the DPOY and MIP frontrunner candidate prove me wrong!

He won't get MIP - for MIP you need to have a significant jump, not marginal improvement.

Scottie was already an all-star and one of the best two way players since 2023. He's improved but the jump isn't significant enough to warrant being the MIP.

Siakam won MIP because he literally went from a bench role player to a borderline all-star.

When Ingram won MIP he jumped from a good starter to a bonafide all-star.

A guy like Jalen Duren will have a much stronger case because he went from a decent role player to an all-star caliber player this year.

Same thing with Avedja who jumped from a good role player averaging 16ppg to an all-star caliber player this year averaging 25ppg on high efficiency.

[PushDaRock]

0% chance Scottie wins MIP when his counting stats haven't moved. Just reality of it.

Not to mention he really hasn't improved significantly at all - he just is finally in a role that makes sense for him. He could have been doing this for the last 2 years if he wasn't the de-facto #1

His defense is much improved, but alas, they will never consider that for MIP, it's also hard to quantify those improvements on D. Regardless, I would still say the following players have a lead on MIP race against Scottie:

Deni Avdija
Maxey
Sengun
Ajay Mitchell

Jalen Duren is the clear favourite imo.

Went from rotation caliber player to an all star caliber.

His FTR probably comes back down to Earth at some point, I don't think it's likely he ends up as a 20 ppg scorer. That's just really difficult to do on his shot diet. Probably ends up around 17-18 ppg IMO

Some wonky numbers so far, he is averaging 3 dunks per game which is absurd but somehow only shoots 66% from inside 3 feet. But, he's also shooting 65% from 3-10 feet and all his damage is done inside of 10 feet so he still ends up uber efficient.

[dTox]

0% chance Scottie wins MIP when his counting stats haven't moved. Just reality of it.

Not to mention he really hasn't improved significantly at all - he just is finally in a role that makes sense for him. He could have been doing this for the last 2 years if he wasn't the de-facto #1

His defense is much improved, but alas, they will never consider that for MIP, it's also hard to quantify those improvements on D. Regardless, I would still say the following players have a lead on MIP race against Scottie:

Deni Avdija
Maxey
Sengun
Ajay Mitchell

Jalen Duren is the clear favourite imo.

Went from rotation caliber player to an all star caliber.

Totally forgot about Duren, I'd place him 2nd or 3rd, Deni is a clear favourite in my books, nobody expected a legit 2nd or 3rd team all NBA type number from this guy.

[tsherkin]

the best case scenario is a baby-giannis

In what sense? I don't see what you see, so I'm curious where that particular comparison comes from.

20, 8 and 5 with 1.5 and 1.5 on 51/39/86, This is exactly what we need from him.

I'm curious what he'll look like 26-30 years old.

Time will tell. He's rocking 19/8/5 for us at the moment, and that's exactly the sort of stuff we need from him with his present efficiency. It'll lean very hard into how he develops his ability to put the ball through the hoop specifically for where he goes in his prime.

He's developed a trend of having a strong month or two of 3pt shooting every year, especially early, and then we get hella excited until it falls off. He was smashing it for the first few games and shot 50% over 6 games in October, and is now shooting 32.4% in November. Pleasantly, though, he's still managing 58.5% TS this month, which is actually still +0.3% rTS at the moment. That's VERY encouraging, because it's suggestive that he can remain nominally efficient (or at least not inefficient) even at much-reduced 3pt shooting.

Also of random note, he's shooting 30.6% from 3 in our 14 wins, which is vaguely hilarious given all our emphasis on his 3pt shot. And still 58.3% TS in those games.


Asking a ton more than that of him as a scorer is hoping he fully and dramatically exceeds every scouting report which has ever assessed him in terms of scoring ability, so I'm a little hesitant to project too much more ceiling there. Especially now that he's corner percentage is starting to normalize, and noting that he's still shooting 43.2% above the break, which is also going to normalize sooner rather than later. Matching that off, of course, is that he's shooting like 7, 8% worse in the paint outside of the RA compared to last year. So that'll help balance things out as his 3 comes down, at least a little. Scottie normally has more touch there, and is normally better at drawing fouls, too.

In my head, I figure that if Scottie can stay at like 19 ppg on -1% to +1% rTS while we have a proper first option scorer next to him on the team, he'll remain an exceedingly valuable guy for us. And the defense is definitely an area to watch for his prime years.

The D, that multi-tool versatility, that's the flipside of that same scouting report, a mainstay of his game. And we appear to have unlocked a pretty solid way to use Scottie. Will be interesting to see if he starts getting some All-D love, and what his playmaking starts to look like as this team continues to improve around him.

We should see some level of improvement from him over the next few years, but usually a lot of that stuff is fairly minor on O in the absence of elite core tools. He isn't going to get quicker. His handle looks a little better, but he isn't going to suddenly become a guy with a deep and crafty bag of dribble attack moves, especially without the strong J to back it up. So looking to push his scoring average too deeply into the 20s probably isn't a thing, given how much he leans on having BI around to get it done. He appears to be slotting in exceptionally well as a secondary scorer, though.

Where could he go? That's interesting enough. The idea that he could potentially compete for a DPOY is super compelling, and probably his area of greatest potential. Now that we have some options around him, it's way, way easier to be happy about him on the team. Which I guess is a little weird, because he's the same guy, it's just we have less to worry about in terms of where the quality scoring is coming from, so the pressure is off of him and it lets him just be who he was meant to be. Which appears to be like Philly-era Iggy.