Horace Grant deserves way more credit

[scrabbarista]

Thread title is correct. I've always had Grant comfortably in my Top 100, over tons of guys consensus ranks above him.

Still have Jordan #1, though.

[bonita_the_frog]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

[xinxin]

Grant also helped the lakers win in 2001.

If he wasn’t injured in 2003-04, perhaps he could have helped the lakers then too.


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[Kalamazoo317]

those glasses were so dope. there used to be a lot more personality in the league back then.

Yeah, absolutely. I posted that a while ago in another thread. I came as a European kid from Wrestling to Basketball and literally every player had some cool nickname or kind of a trademark move or some cool gimmick. It almost felt like a team sport version of WWF Wrestling. Watch out, here come the Hornets with little Muggsy Bogues, mean Zo Mourning and Hulk like Grandmama with the cool gold tooth. Mase and Oak looking and acting like the meanest heel tag team of all time. Pretty much what ever type of team or player you wanted to root for, you had an option.

yeah i was wanting to make a thread about this but i got lazy. there's a story telling aspect to sports entertainment that is lost in today's game. there's too many good/decent players that everyones kind of a blur. like who the hell is this ajay mitchell guy that's averaging 16-17 ppg for an 18-1 OKC team. even the 'stars', nobody really knows anything about them. what's devin booker and jason tatum like? theyre bland personalities that are kinda forgettable.

Y'all are sleeping on my upstart Pistons ... Motorcade, Beefstew, JD dunking everything in sight, "Unc," Danisanity, 9 to 5 Ausar and Ron Holland, BBall Paul ... the "Nasty Boys" are chockablock full of personality

[Capn'O]

those glasses were so dope. there used to be a lot more personality in the league back then.

Yeah, absolutely. I posted that a while ago in another thread. I came as a European kid from Wrestling to Basketball and literally every player had some cool nickname or kind of a trademark move or some cool gimmick. It almost felt like a team sport version of WWF Wrestling. Watch out, here come the Hornets with little Muggsy Bogues, mean Zo Mourning and Hulk like Grandmama with the cool gold tooth. Mase and Oak looking and acting like the meanest heel tag team of all time. Pretty much what ever type of team or player you wanted to root for, you had an option.

yeah i was wanting to make a thread about this but i got lazy. there's a story telling aspect to sports entertainment that is lost in today's game. there's too many good/decent players that everyones kind of a blur. like who the hell is this ajay mitchell guy that's averaging 16-17 ppg for an 18-1 OKC team. even the 'stars', nobody really knows anything about them. what's devin booker and jason tatum like? theyre bland personalities that are kinda forgettable.

So what you're saying is we don't have the Inside Stuff?

[ShootersShoot]

Grant also helped the lakers win in 2001.

If he wasn’t injured in 2003-04, perhaps he could have helped the lakers then too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was 39 years old at the time..so probably would not have helped that much

[Common Sensei]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

Michael Jordan was not rusty he shot better in the 1994-95 playoffs than he did in their next 3-peat, he was averaging his usual 31.5 PPG on 48 FG% which was the exact same as his career Playoff FG%.
The Bulls needed Horace Grant to win that's why they had to out and get Dennis Rodman or they would have not been able to 3-peat.
The reason they easily beat Orlando the next year was Horace Grant got injured in game 1 and the Bulls had Rodman.

[Homer38]

Grant also helped the lakers win in 2001.

If he wasn’t injured in 2003-04, perhaps he could have helped the lakers then too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was 39 years old at the time..so probably would not have helped that much

He was still great on defense against the PF they face in the playoffs like Wallace,Weeber and Duncan

[bonita_the_frog]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

Michael Jordan was not rusty he shot better in the 1994-95 playoffs than he did in their next 3-peat, he was averaging his usual 31.5 PPG on 48 FG% which was the exact same as his career Playoff FG%.
The Bulls needed Horace Grant to win that's why they had to out and get Dennis Rodman or they would have not been able to 3-peat.
The reason they easily beat Orlando the next year was Horace Grant got injured in game 1 and the Bulls had Rodman.

But literally 2 weeks ago i watched all 6 games of that 1995 Orlando-Chicago series and Jordan had no energy left in the 4th quarters.
Chicago would have won that series if Jordan was simply in-shape... but instead they lost in 6.

Oh, and watch Jordan in Game 1 trying to dribble the ball up-court, losing the ball to the trailing defender, and then in the final possession of the game Jordan threw the ball out-of-bounds as he refused to take the final shot and tried to pass to Pippen...

So his overall stats don't tell the story at all, when you watch the games and see how gassed Jordan was in the 4th quarters, and how unsteady he was both physically and mentally.

He didn't have his legs at the end of games, and he didn't have self-belief, and that is why he changed his jersey number (from 45 to 23) mid-series.
The Bulls are better with Rodman (or Grant), but they would have won that 1995 series with Kukoc at PF if Jordan was in-shape and mentally prepared.

[JinKaz69]

His most valuable trait for the Bulls is that he was pretty versatible on defense.

He anchored the interior defense but unlike prototypal bruisers like Oakley or the Davis brothers, he was quick and mobile enough to defend full court.

1st Three-peat Bulls used to apply more often full court pressure as Jordan, Pippen and Grant were younger.

In my opinion he is more underrated than Pippen who since retired he is now overrated.

[JinKaz69]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

Michael Jordan was not rusty he shot better in the 1994-95 playoffs than he did in their next 3-peat, he was averaging his usual 31.5 PPG on 48 FG% which was the exact same as his career Playoff FG%.
The Bulls needed Horace Grant to win that's why they had to out and get Dennis Rodman or they would have not been able to 3-peat.
The reason they easily beat Orlando the next year was Horace Grant got injured in game 1 and the Bulls had Rodman.

He was.
He didn't have his usual stamina so he made unsual mistakes during crunch times.
He had also a lot of turnovers.

[bonita_the_frog]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

Michael Jordan was not rusty he shot better in the 1994-95 playoffs than he did in their next 3-peat, he was averaging his usual 31.5 PPG on 48 FG% which was the exact same as his career Playoff FG%.
The Bulls needed Horace Grant to win that's why they had to out and get Dennis Rodman or they would have not been able to 3-peat.
The reason they easily beat Orlando the next year was Horace Grant got injured in game 1 and the Bulls had Rodman.

He was.
He didn't have his usual stamina so he made unsual mistakes during crunch times.
He had also a lot of turnovers.

Yep i've been watching that 1995 Bulls-Magic series and its like watching an alternate universe where Jordan was weak and stupid in the 4th quarters especially.
His overall stats looked good because he began each game well, but faded as his energy faded, so his shots were short, and some weird turnovers.
He's had bad shooting games or quarters throughout his career, but this looked very different because the stats were good but the missed shots were way off... and often on the most important possessions.

[NZB2323]

100% OP. A weird thing that happens with Horace and Scottie is that MJ fans feel the need to tear them down because they believe it makes MJ legacy "better". Their thought is that of they diminish how good those players are, it just means MJ did THAT much more and is THAT much better. It's really a shame and unnecessary.

Those Bulls teams were just unfair. You had easily the best #1 and #2 options in the league, and arguably Horace was a better #3 option than anybody on the league. That elite defense while being able to get 15 and 11. Along with the elite depth. Those teams were STACKED.

I think Horace Grant is underrated and the greatest 1x all-star of all time, but one thing to keep in mind is that Jordan had to go against Rodman, Dumars, and Isiah Thomas from 88-91 and then had to go against Shaq, Penny, and Horace Grant from 95-96. And Shawn Kemp could certainly be argued over Pippen for Kemp’s prime.

Then you had Hakeem, Barkley, and Drexler in Houston and Rodman was clearly past his prime in 97 and 98.

[HMFFL]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

I think he gets just enough credit.
Tough role player when the center depth on the Bulls wasn't so good. But, I agree, some posters are overvaluing Grant.

[danfantastk32]

Never felt he was underrated by fans of Basketball. Almost everyone who was around in the 90's knows who he was. Half the younger people prob don't know who he is, but you can say that about most of the 80's and 90's players. And in 10-15 years, if people even know who a guy like Andre Iguodola was...it'll be as a bench player for GS. <------ There's a guy who I predict will be seriously underrated by the future.

[ScrantonBulls]

100% OP. A weird thing that happens with Horace and Scottie is that MJ fans feel the need to tear them down because they believe it makes MJ legacy "better". Their thought is that of they diminish how good those players are, it just means MJ did THAT much more and is THAT much better. It's really a shame and unnecessary.

Those Bulls teams were just unfair. You had easily the best #1 and #2 options in the league, and arguably Horace was a better #3 option than anybody on the league. That elite defense while being able to get 15 and 11. Along with the elite depth. Those teams were STACKED.

I think Horace Grant is underrated and the greatest 1x all-star of all time, but one thing to keep in mind is that Jordan had to go against Rodman, Dumars, and Isiah Thomas from 88-91 and then had to go against Shaq, Penny, and Horace Grant from 95-96. And Shawn Kemp could certainly be argued over Pippen for Kemp’s prime.

Then you had Hakeem, Barkley, and Drexler in Houston and Rodman was clearly past his prime in 97 and 98.

Do you know how many games Horace played in the 1996 series against Orlando?

And referencing the Charles Barkley Houston Rockets as if it is some impressive big 3... Lol. Your posts proves my point. Not great depth in that era.

[Dino353]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

Dude he literally played 17 full games before the playoffs and scored 55 in the Garden in the playoffs, stop with the rust excuses

[MavsDirk41]

The Jordan/Pippen/Grant Bulls had plenty of depth to win those 3 championships, but calling those teams stacked is nothing more than James fans trying to diminish Jordan.

91 Bulls main supporting cast minus Jordan/Pippen
Grant 13/8
Cartwright 10/6
Paxson 9/3
BJ 9/4
King 5/3


92 Bulls main supporting cast minus Jordan/Pippen
Grant 14/10
Cartwright 8/5
BJ 10/3
Paxson 7/3
King 7/3

93 Bulls main supporting cast minus Jordan/Pippen
Grant 13/10
BJ 12/4/2
Catrwright 5/4
Williams 6/6
Paxson 4/2

There were numerous playoff teams in both conferences that had better depth then those Bulls teams. This thread went from calling out some love for Grant, which he deserves, to calling those Bulls teams stacked. James fans lmao

[Common Sensei]

Horace Grant gets too much credit...
Grant played for the Orlando Magic in 1994-95, and they beat the Bulls in the 1995 playoffs when Jordan was rusty and had poor stamina in the 4th quarters (and lost the ball to give Orlando a chance to win Game 1).
If Jordan had his usual stamina, the Bulls win, despite Grant averaging 18ppg and 11rpg in that series.

Michael Jordan was not rusty he shot better in the 1994-95 playoffs than he did in their next 3-peat, he was averaging his usual 31.5 PPG on 48 FG% which was the exact same as his career Playoff FG%.
The Bulls needed Horace Grant to win that's why they had to out and get Dennis Rodman or they would have not been able to 3-peat.
The reason they easily beat Orlando the next year was Horace Grant got injured in game 1 and the Bulls had Rodman.

But literally 2 weeks ago i watched all 6 games of that 1995 Orlando-Chicago series and Jordan had no energy left in the 4th quarters.
Chicago would have won that series if Jordan was simply in-shape... but instead they lost in 6.

Oh, and watch Jordan in Game 1 trying to dribble the ball up-court, losing the ball to the trailing defender, and then in the final possession of the game Jordan threw the ball out-of-bounds as he refused to take the final shot and tried to pass to Pippen...

So his overall stats don't tell the story at all, when you watch the games and see how gassed Jordan was in the 4th quarters, and how unsteady he was both physically and mentally.

He didn't have his legs at the end of games, and he didn't have self-belief, and that is why he changed his jersey number (from 45 to 23) mid-series.
The Bulls are better with Rodman (or Grant), but they would have won that 1995 series with Kukoc at PF if Jordan was in-shape and mentally prepared.

Horace Grant led the Orlando Magic in Offensive Rating and was second on the team in Defensive Rating in that series, he made a difference.

Can we stop with Michael Jordan excuses he played great the series before against the Charlotte Hornets and all the other players in the league had just played a full season all banged up wore out dealing with their own issues, the game was more physical back then.

No matter how Jordan played they still needed Horace Grant, why did they have to get a guy like Dennis Rodman if they thought Jordan/Pippen were enough to win another championship, they could have saved money and used someone within the organization.

[JinKaz69]

Michael Jordan was not rusty he shot better in the 1994-95 playoffs than he did in their next 3-peat, he was averaging his usual 31.5 PPG on 48 FG% which was the exact same as his career Playoff FG%.
The Bulls needed Horace Grant to win that's why they had to out and get Dennis Rodman or they would have not been able to 3-peat.
The reason they easily beat Orlando the next year was Horace Grant got injured in game 1 and the Bulls had Rodman.

But literally 2 weeks ago i watched all 6 games of that 1995 Orlando-Chicago series and Jordan had no energy left in the 4th quarters.
Chicago would have won that series if Jordan was simply in-shape... but instead they lost in 6.

Oh, and watch Jordan in Game 1 trying to dribble the ball up-court, losing the ball to the trailing defender, and then in the final possession of the game Jordan threw the ball out-of-bounds as he refused to take the final shot and tried to pass to Pippen...

So his overall stats don't tell the story at all, when you watch the games and see how gassed Jordan was in the 4th quarters, and how unsteady he was both physically and mentally.

He didn't have his legs at the end of games, and he didn't have self-belief, and that is why he changed his jersey number (from 45 to 23) mid-series.
The Bulls are better with Rodman (or Grant), but they would have won that 1995 series with Kukoc at PF if Jordan was in-shape and mentally prepared.

Horace Grant led the Orlando Magic in Offensive Rating and was second on the team in Defensive Rating in that series, he made a difference.
Can we stop with Michael Jordan excuses he played great the series before against the Charlotte Hornets and all the other players in the league had just played a full season all banged up wore out dealing with their own issues, the game was more physical back then.
No matter how Jordan played they still needed Horace Grant, why did they have to get a guy like Dennis Rodman if they thought Jordan/Pippen were enough to win another championship, they could have saved money and used someone within the organization.

Jordan came back very late in the season.
The Bulls didn't have enough time to build strong enough chemistry.
If he had come back at the start of the season I believe the Bulls could had beaten that Orlando Magic team even with no true power forward.

Despite Jordan being rusty and choking in game 1 and Longley missing a very easy shot in crunch time of game 6, they were still pretty close to beat the Magic.

I agree with the fact that Jordan/Pippen alone isn't enough to win a championship though.