Are people lower on Cooper Flagg?

[FrodoBaggins]

Cooper is 50/63 (79.4%) at the rim, including 33/41 (80.5%) on non-dunk rim finishes. His dunking (17/22, 77.3%) actually lowers his rim FG%, LOL.

19 of those 50 made rim FGs were assisted (38%); 8 out of 17 made dunks were assisted (47.1%); 11 out of 33 made non-dunk rim finishes were assisted (33.3%).

Additionally, Cooper is 51/113 (45.1%) from 3-16 feet. 12 out of those 51 made FGs were assisted (23.5%).

So, Flagg is scoring really well at the rim when he gets there, despite a very high unassisted rate of 62%. The non-dunk finishing is extremely promising; that left hand is legit, as is the general touch.

The short mid-range game is looking nice, too. That pull-up from 10-16 feet looks really good; he looked like Kawhi hitting those shots tonight. Automatic, robotic, consistent mechanics. I think that's his go-to shot. It flows naturally off his quick two-footed jump.

NBA.com has his expected 2PT% at 52.9%, whereas he's shooting 53.9% (+1%). So he's outperforming the league average on his 2PT shot quality, even with the terrible 16ft+ 2PT shooting (9/28, 32.1%).

Adding to this:

I checked LeBron's non-dunk rim finishing percentages across the best years of his career (2009, 2010, 2013, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021). He ranged from, roughly speaking, 64.3% to about 73.5%. It's an important skill, and he's considered perhaps the gold standard at it.

I'll keep track of Cooper's percentages as the season continues.

[FrodoBaggins]

Remember when this board wrote off an 18 year old after like 2 weeks? Never change, RealGM.

Kid is EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD averaging 16/5/3. He's going to be great, very soon.

Actually 17/7/3.5 if we're rounding up.

[Ice Man]

A lot of people discount his athleticism, because ... well, you know why. Yesterday in the Clips game he bullied/shot over every opponent, Kawhi included, except for Zubac, whom he outquicked. Very few players have Coop's combination of height, bulk, and agility.

[Johnny Firpo]

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

Generational talents, by definition, need to be rare or you need to find another term. If every decade has AT LEAST 4, then the term "generational talent" doesnt mean what it means anymore

Remind me again, how many players play basketball in the world? The talent pool is huge, I agree that the word has to mean a "rare talent". If a million kid wants to become a pro superstar in a decade, and we have 3-4, I would say that easily qualifies as "generational". I think you guys are too strict with that definition. KD is definitely generational, so is Jokic, so is Luka. These guys are just as rare as a Lebron or Wemby. How many other european like them? How many like Giannis? They are RARE.

[Duke4life831]

Don’t know if it was Kidd or Flagg, but there was a legit change in style of play last night.

From the get go, it was ball in Flagg’s hand and run everything through him. It was just downhill from the get go.

My guess last night was his highest time with the ball in his hands. This should be how Dallas plays for the rest of the year. Flagg needs to be #1 or #2 when it comes to time per possession and 18+ FGAs.

Ya his jumper is still off. But you can see his adjustments when it comes to attacking the rim. Using his left a lot more, hitting that 12-15ft pull up. When it comes to driving, everything is getting easier for him.

[Mirotic12]

Remember when this board wrote off an 18 year old after like 2 weeks? Never change, RealGM.

Kid is EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD averaging 16/5/3. He's going to be great, very soon.

Who in the thread wrote off Flagg? I don't recall a single post in thread that did so.

I've only seen some posters say they don't think he will be a GOAT candidate, or like a top 10 or top 15 all time player.

[ryan in Maine]

A lot of people discount his athleticism, because ... well, you know why. Yesterday in the Clips game he bullied/shot over every opponent, Kawhi included, except for Zubac, whom he outquicked. Very few players have Coop's combination of height, bulk, and agility.

Because he's a Mainer.

[Cavsfansince84]

Remember when this board wrote off an 18 year old after like 2 weeks? Never change, RealGM.

Kid is EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD averaging 16/5/3. He's going to be great, very soon.

Who in the thread wrote off Flagg? I don't recall a single post in thread that did so.

I've only seen some posters say they don't think he will be a GOAT candidate, or like a top 10 or top 15 all time player.

Plenty of people have said they don't think he will ever be top 10 player and all star is his ceiling. Not necessarily in this thread but there was more of it after the first week or two. No one has any real idea what his ceiling is yet though.

[kwajo]

I like Coop. BUt can we stop throwing this word around like its nothing

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

None of those players was a generational talent, except for Shaq, and maybe, just perhaps maybe, LeBron. But even LeBron is debatable.

You don't think Duncan was a generational talent? He came in and was instantly in the MVP conversation, the DPOY conversation, an All-Star starter and went on to win a ring in his second year, and was the greatest of all-time at at his position.

[Mirotic12]

We actually just had a discussion about this, generational talents are not that rare. Every decade has at least 3-4. 80s had MJ, Hakeem, Drexler, 90s had Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Dirk, 00s had LeBron, CP, KD, Steph,10s had Giannis, Kawhi, Joker, Embiid. There is a generational talent in like every 2-2.5 years on average.

None of those players was a generational talent, except for Shaq, and maybe, just perhaps maybe, LeBron. But even LeBron is debatable.

You don't think Duncan was a generational talent? He came in and was instantly in the MVP conversation, the DPOY conversation, an All-Star starter and went on to win a ring in his second year, and was the greatest of all-time at at his position.

No.

[tsherkin]

None of those players was a generational talent, except for Shaq, and maybe, just perhaps maybe, LeBron. But even LeBron is debatable.

You don't think Duncan was a generational talent? He came in and was instantly in the MVP conversation, the DPOY conversation, an All-Star starter and went on to win a ring in his second year, and was the greatest of all-time at at his position.

No.

TBF, he didnt profile as a generational talent, but a clear #1 pick. Was more smooth and coordinated and not a dominant athletic specimen. Wasnt a dominant college scorer, but obviously skilled. Certainly didnt compare to earlier monsters like Kareem.

So no, "generational" doesnt feel right. Just really damned good.

[MavsDirk41]

Don’t know if it was Kidd or Flagg, but there was a legit change in style of play last night.

From the get go, it was ball in Flagg’s hand and run everything through him. It was just downhill from the get go.

My guess last night was his highest time with the ball in his hands. This should be how Dallas plays for the rest of the year. Flagg needs to be #1 or #2 when it comes to time per possession and 18+ FGAs.

Ya his jumper is still off. But you can see his adjustments when it comes to attacking the rim. Using his left a lot more, hitting that 12-15ft pull up. When it comes to driving, everything is getting easier for him.

Imagine if we had a point guard who was an elite shot maker/shot creator who was also a closer (Irving) to pair with Cooper, PJ, Gafford, Thompson, and Lively.

I think the future addition of Irving (hopefully January) will do wonders for Cooper. With Irving the Mavs are a playoff team imo.

[ChuckChilly]

Don’t know if it was Kidd or Flagg, but there was a legit change in style of play last night.

From the get go, it was ball in Flagg’s hand and run everything through him. It was just downhill from the get go.

My guess last night was his highest time with the ball in his hands. This should be how Dallas plays for the rest of the year. Flagg needs to be #1 or #2 when it comes to time per possession and 18+ FGAs.

Ya his jumper is still off. But you can see his adjustments when it comes to attacking the rim. Using his left a lot more, hitting that 12-15ft pull up. When it comes to driving, everything is getting easier for him.

I thought that what most people were complaining about. Saying the playmaking should be in someone else's hands while Flagg picks his spots.

[NbaAllDay]

None of those players was a generational talent, except for Shaq, and maybe, just perhaps maybe, LeBron. But even LeBron is debatable.

You don't think Duncan was a generational talent? He came in and was instantly in the MVP conversation, the DPOY conversation, an All-Star starter and went on to win a ring in his second year, and was the greatest of all-time at at his position.

No.

I don't usually subscribe to labelling generational, superstar etc etc as it's fairly subjective based on the requirements proposed.

In saying that, how is the best player of a generation (Lebron) debatable as being "generational" - by every possible variation of that word he is one of if not the most obvious choice.

[Mirotic12]

George Mikan
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem
Shaq
Wemby

That's what the term generational prospect or talent was always intended to mean.

Then the sports media and social media decided to make it whatever they felt like making it.

[Duke4life831]

Don’t know if it was Kidd or Flagg, but there was a legit change in style of play last night.

From the get go, it was ball in Flagg’s hand and run everything through him. It was just downhill from the get go.

My guess last night was his highest time with the ball in his hands. This should be how Dallas plays for the rest of the year. Flagg needs to be #1 or #2 when it comes to time per possession and 18+ FGAs.

Ya his jumper is still off. But you can see his adjustments when it comes to attacking the rim. Using his left a lot more, hitting that 12-15ft pull up. When it comes to driving, everything is getting easier for him.

I thought that what most people were complaining about. Saying the playmaking should be in someone else's hands while Flagg picks his spots.

I know some have that issue, Ive never had that issue. I think you should get the ball in his hands as much as possible.

There are 2 major issues Ive had with how Dallas has handled Flagg.

#1. When they did do the "Flagg to play PG" to start the year. They put out as bad of a lineup as you could. Their 3-5 was PJ Washington, AD, and Lively. Hard to craft up a worse spacing 3-5 in the league than that. Then on top of that, Klay was horrible to start the year with his jumper. So Flagg had horrific spacing.

#2. When Flagg isnt on the ball, Dallas has zero facilitating on their roster. Its been a couple weeks since I last looked so this may not still be 100% accurate. But Dallas was bottom 5 in assists per game, secondary assists, and passes per game. So there would be long stretches throughout the game where Flagg would essentially get iced out of the offense. He'd just camp in the corner while guys would make 1-2 passes in the entire possession (if they didnt just try and score without making a pass).

Now with the injuries, the court has oppened up some. So like last night when he's getting force fed the ball and running lots of PnR and stuff. He has a lot more room to attack compared to the start of the year. And there werent these long stretches of him not touching the ball.

I still do think Dallas needs a legit facilitator to help him out. So even when he's not on the ball, he can still be involved. Because again as of right now, if he wants a shot, he's going to have to work for it. There are no easy baskets for him. Right now just 32% of his 2pt shots are assisted on.

Usually when you get to that sub 30% mark, youre looking at the ball dominant guards. Flagg isnt even top 50 for Time Per Possession. So he's not in a ball dominant role, while also getting zero help with guys making his life easier when he's off the ball.

[Duke4life831]

George Mikan
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem
Shaq
Wemby

That's what the term generational prospect or talent was always intended to mean.

Then the sports media and social media decided to make it whatever they felt like making it.

How was LeBron not a generational prospect? He was the first high school player to win Gatorade NPOY 2x (that award goes back to 1985). He was basically the reason ESPN started airing HS basketball games on a normal basis. He was also a freak athlete to go with his size and his skill set for his size. Many viewed him as the best basketball prospect ever.

LeBron is kind of the definition of a generational prospect.

[bonita_the_frog]

Don’t know if it was Kidd or Flagg, but there was a legit change in style of play last night.

From the get go, it was ball in Flagg’s hand and run everything through him. It was just downhill from the get go.

My guess last night was his highest time with the ball in his hands. This should be how Dallas plays for the rest of the year. Flagg needs to be #1 or #2 when it comes to time per possession and 18+ FGAs.

Ya his jumper is still off. But you can see his adjustments when it comes to attacking the rim. Using his left a lot more, hitting that 12-15ft pull up. When it comes to driving, everything is getting easier for him.

Coop Flagg is about to give us the greatest adult fan experience any person can ever wish for this seems like the perfect example of a player with the world at his feet and with every skill in his toolbox (except 3-pointers, but the odds are that will come!).
Coop's rookie season is like Christmas everyday, it must be what people felt like when Michael Jordan was a rookie and you kept seeing him do things for the first time!

[G R E Y]

Best PF OAT conversation 5 time champ is not a generational talent. Ok.

[Duke4life831]

Best PF OAT conversation 5 time champ is not a generational talent. Ok.

Ya no matter how you view it as talent or prospect. Just looking at him as a prospect. After his sophomore year in college, he was viewed as the #1 pick. But he decided to go back to college, after his Junior season he was viewed as the #1 pick, he then again decided to go back to college. Then he finally declared after his senior year and he was the #1 pick.

Then as a rookie he was top 5 in MVP voting, top 5 in DPOY voting, 2nd team All Defense and 1st team All NBA.

If youre a prep player being talked about as the #1 pick if you decide to declare for the draft for 3 years. Then come in and dominate right off the bat. This isnt a Jokic situation where he kind of just showed up out of nowhere. Here is a guy for again, 3 years teams with the #1 pick were hoping he would declare so they could take him #1. Then the second he stepped foot on the NBA court he was a top 5 player in the league.

Just from a prospect standpoint (we all know how great the rest of his NBA career turned out to be), that is as elite of a prospect you can basically have.