Trade Talk (Part 18): Early Season Panic Edition

[Norseman79]

The other thing I would point out is that Ant might need to be the offensive hub out of necessity.

Many posters correctly identify that we don’t have trade assets to acquire a starting PG. We don’t have draft assets, and salary matching would need to send out a player we rely on to meet a certain need on the team. Send out Gobert for the PG we need, and then we have a huge hole at center that needs to be filled.

There has been more talk about Ant being the de facto point guard in the last two weeks, and I’ve seen two national articles where the Wolves have mentioned it. I think that Tim Connelly will continues to to monitor the point guard market, but I think that inevitably Ant will be the “PG” with DiVincenzo paired with him in the back court.

This I agree with

[Norseman79]

The easiest solution, like I’ve said for two years, is for Ant to focus on developing his playmaking.

He’s not there now, and he’s gotten better since the middle of last season, but he has a long way to go. But his athleticism and first step, and his 5ree point shooting, should make it easier for him to make passes, as he continues to improve his ability to read defenses.

I hear this argument and it makes me cringe. I don't want him to be a point guard. I want him to be a stone cold killing scorer. The wolves are responsible to find a point guard to play next to him, not to try to turn him into a point guard. If he gets four to five assists per game that's all he should have to worry about. Some games more some games last. But his primary instinct should be scoring not creating for others.

I think this prototype has been passed by.

Ant is #12 in PPG. Of the 11 above him, only one player has less assists. Most of them have far far more. Is Luka less, or more, of a threat to score because he can pass (35.1 PPG, 9.4 APG)? Shai at 6.7 APG. Maxey at 7.5. Giannis, even Austin Reaves averages more than 6 APG. Ant averages 3.6.

In today’s NBA, the best players are the offensive engine, and they no longer need to be labeled a “PG.”

Like I said, him averaging five or six assist per game no problem. Here's the thing, most of the guys that you're talking about came in the league as point guards who could score and became better scorers. Edwards came in the league as a scorer and he's trying to develop a different mindset to become a facilitator. If he upped it to six assists per game, he would be top 20 in assists. Also, isn't it slightly telling that some of this could be Finch's offense? Edwards is only averaging 3.6 assist per game but he is second on the team to Randle at 5 something. Again, him hitting an open person because he drives the basket and someone helps so he kicks it, that's great. Assuming the person catches it and makes the shot. However, it seems like we get stuck playing ISO ball and he's just expected to create for everyone else. I would love to know how many other players that you're referring to also play for a coach that runs a system that enables them to get that many assists.

[shrink]

There has been more talk about Ant being the de facto point guard in the last two weeks, and I’ve seen two national articles where the Wolves have mentioned it.

Jon Krawcinski wrote about it for the Athletic, and RealGM Wiretap picked it up.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282930/Anthony-Edwards-Embraces-Point-Guard-Role-As-Timberwolves-Adapt-Without-Traditional-One

[Norseman79]

There has been more talk about Ant being the de facto point guard in the last two weeks, and I’ve seen two national articles where the Wolves have mentioned it.

Jon Krawcinski wrote about it for the Athletic, and RealGM Wiretap picked it up.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282930/Anthony-Edwards-Embraces-Point-Guard-Role-As-Timberwolves-Adapt-Without-Traditional-One

I have seen it and read it, doesn't mean I like or agree with it

[Wolveswin]

To Bulls: Reid/DDV

To Pacers: Dilly/Collins (expiring)/2x Bulls 1sts (Blazers owed/Bulls own)

To Wolves: Nembhard/Pat/Huff

Gobert/Huff/Beringer
Randle/Pat/McDaniels
McDaniels/Pat/Miller
Edwards/Nembhard/TSJ
Nembhard/Conley/Bones

[shangrila]

Can we ban Nembhard trades from now on?

It's not happening and the cult that's built up around him has posted every possible variation

[minimus]

Can we ban Nembhard trades from now on?

It's not happening and the cult that's built up around him has posted every possible variation

Yep, we need a new hero, a new cult. What about Anthony Black?

[minimus]

Would you trade TJ and FRP for Vince Williams or Scottie Pippen Jr?

[Norseman79]

Would you trade TJ and FRP for Vince Williams or Scottie Pippen Jr?

No

We have zero depth at the SF type of position, unless you view him as a guard.

TSJ and Dilly for Williams, Wells, and Londale I would do.

The problem is there is no extended track record of Williams as a PG and he shoots around 30% from 3. But I guess if he was a sniper he wouldn't be available.

I would honestly give Zyon Pullin a shot before trading for Williams.

[shrink]

I was surprised to see the Grizzlies have won their last three games, and moved to 9-12, and the ninth seed in the West. With several teams that are truly bad in the division, I assume they will try to please their fans and continue to compete. Still, they may be a good trading partner, if we can fill each other’s needs.

One of the biggest limitations for us in trades is that we have little disposable matching salary. The bulk of our payroll is locked into players that fulfill an important positional or skill function on our team. If we want to find a starting center, or back up center, trading away one of our top six players creates new holes, which may be even harder to fill.

The biggest unnecessary salary piece on the Wolves’ payroll right now is, sadly, Mike Conley, a $10.77 mil expiring. Mike has always been a great soldier, a team leader, and his addition for DLo turned around the direction of this franchise. I believe that Tim Connelly will honor his word to not trade Mike unless he agrees to it, not just for Tim’s reputation with other players, but because Mike earned it. So perhaps the question should be - where would Mike be willing to go for six months to finish his career? It might be no teams, but Memphis seems like the most likely place. After that, Utah, or perhaps a better contender than MIN, to get a ring? I’m guessing he probably wouldn’t move his family, but if we are looking for teams where we can send out a bit of salary, MEM deserves some investigation.

[frankenwolf]

The talk about Ant being PG and the number of his assists still shows that we need a PG. I would beg to differ. Since there have been some comparisons to MJ, let's take a look at the 95-96 Bulls. The guards on that team were Jordan, Ron Harper & Steve Kerr. Their APG were as follows: 4.3, 2.6,2.3. Yes Kerr and Harper were the defacto PG, but MJ did the initiating and that is where I see this team going. Yes, Ant needs to improve his decision making, but it is better than it was the last few years and I look for it to get better. I also see Dilly getting better. The unfortunate thing is other teams really hunt him on the defensive side. Watching the game last night, Dilly was good, but Harper hunted him down every time down it seemed like.

Let's not destroy this team for a star PG.

[Norseman79]

The talk about Ant being PG and the number of his assists still shows that we need a PG. I would beg to differ. Since there have been some comparisons to MJ, let's take a look at the 95-96 Bulls. The guards on that team were Jordan, Ron Harper & Steve Kerr. Their APG were as follows: 4.3, 2.6,2.3. Yes Kerr and Harper were the defacto PG, but MJ did the initiating and that is where I see this team going. Yes, Ant needs to improve his decision making, but it is better than it was the last few years and I look for it to get better. I also see Dilly getting better. The unfortunate thing is other teams really hunt him on the defensive side. Watching the game last night, Dilly was good, but Harper hunted him down every time down it seemed like.

Let's not destroy this team for a star PG.

you are correct, however Jordan is God level and the game and offensive concepts are quite different. Operating the triangle offense is a totally different dynamic than what we run.

[Slim Tubby]

The talk about Ant being PG and the number of his assists still shows that we need a PG. I would beg to differ. Since there have been some comparisons to MJ, let's take a look at the 95-96 Bulls. The guards on that team were Jordan, Ron Harper & Steve Kerr. Their APG were as follows: 4.3, 2.6,2.3. Yes Kerr and Harper were the defacto PG, but MJ did the initiating and that is where I see this team going. Yes, Ant needs to improve his decision making, but it is better than it was the last few years and I look for it to get better. I also see Dilly getting better. The unfortunate thing is other teams really hunt him on the defensive side. Watching the game last night, Dilly was good, but Harper hunted him down every time down it seemed like.

Let's not destroy this team for a star PG.

I agree with your last sentence 100%. The cost of acquiring a high-end PG would only shift the holes on our roster and there's no way I'm spending any legitimate trade capital on an average or short term answer at the position.

Jordan did have very good ball handling guards/shooters next to him during his Title runs:

John Paxson
Steve Kerr
BJ Armstrong
Ron Harper

All four (4) of them were crucial to the Bulls' success even playing supporting roles behind MJ and Pippen.

The Bulls didn't steamroll their way to all of those Titles. Outside of MJ and Pippen, they needed contributions from everyone to create that dynasty.

Sent from my G54 using RealGM mobile app

[KGdaBom]

I was surprised to see the Grizzlies have won their last three games, and moved to 9-12, and the ninth seed in the West. With several teams that are truly bad in the division, I assume they will try to please their fans and continue to compete. Still, they may be a good trading partner, if we can fill each other’s needs.

One of the biggest limitations for us in trades is that we have little disposable matching salary. The bulk of our payroll is locked into players that fulfill an important positional or skill function on our team. If we want to find a starting center, or back up center, trading away one of our top six players creates new holes, which may be even harder to fill.

The biggest unnecessary salary piece on the Wolves’ payroll right now is, sadly, Mike Conley, a $10.77 mil expiring. Mike has always been a great soldier, a team leader, and his addition for DLo turned around the direction of this franchise. I believe that Tim Connelly will honor his word to not trade Mike unless he agrees to it, not just for Tim’s reputation with other players, but because Mike earned it. So perhaps the question should be - where would Mike be willing to go for six months to finish his career? It might be no teams, but Memphis seems like the most likely place. After that, Utah, or perhaps a better contender than MIN, to get a ring? I’m guessing he probably wouldn’t move his family, but if we are looking for teams where we can send out a bit of salary, MEM deserves some investigation.

The reason the Grizzlies are winning are twofold. Zach Edey is turning into an absolute BEAST (we could have drafted him) and Ja isn't playing. As soon as they take care of the Ja situation their future will be bright.

[BlacJacMac]

Would you trade TJ and FRP for Vince Williams or Scottie Pippen Jr?

So that FRP would be a 2028 pick swap?

Because that is the ONLY 1st round pick that we can do anything with. And it would have to be a swap.

Our next available pick to trade is 2033 - and that's a year away from being allowed by the CBA.

People need to stop adding FRPs to trade proposals...

[minimus]

Would you trade TJ and FRP for Vince Williams or Scottie Pippen Jr?

So that FRP would be a 2028 pick swap?

Because that is the ONLY 1st round pick that we can do anything with. And it would have to be a swap.

Our next available pick to trade is 2033 - and that's a year away from being allowed by the CBA.

People need to stop adding FRPs to trade proposals...

yeah, I really meant SRP

[Domejandro]

I am generally against trading Julius Randle (I think the idea that you "can't win" with him is foolish, I always find that to be a nonsense talking point when evaluating players), but Chicago may be a viable third team in any trade where Julius Randle is moved.

Read on Twitter

That said, Chicago is likely looking at trying to nab Anthony Davis.

[shrink]

Would you trade TJ and FRP for Vince Williams or Scottie Pippen Jr?

Well, we have Jordan’s son already, so …!

[Klomp]

At this point, I'm actually hoping they don't rock the boat too much at the deadline. Maybe a DiVincenzo trade (I still like the Ivey idea, perhaps a Tre Jones), but that's about it.

[Note30]

What would it take to trade for Maxey?