Should people call out Jokic more for his lack of leadership?

[KayDee35]

We're well past the honeymoon phase with Jokic. The expectations are going to be elevated when you've got multiple MVPs and being talked about as an all-time great - both of which are well-deserved.

I'm not sure I'd knock him for his leadership but I'm OK with him getting the bulk of the blame if the Nuggs lose in the playoffs. That's how it goes with superstars.

[Ssj16]

You also omitted lack of defense from the Joker which is a pretty big deal. OP isn't saying he should do his teammates job for them, he is pointing out the terrible body language, the lack of defense and the fact that he isn't getting it done when someone of his talent level should be the deciding factor in a close game against a 6 win team.

Do you hold the same accountability for the Luka and his lack of defense?

Luka is not a center so it's not his job to anchor the defense and provide rim protection. But that is the job of a center. That's how basketball works, the center is the most important position for a good defense.

It's not the center's job to run the offense, be the offensive hub and anchor for the team and lead the team in assist but Jokic does this greater than any player in the game who is not a guard.

Your take makes me feel like I'm still in 2005 or something.

[Ssj16]

We're well past the honeymoon phase with Jokic. The expectations are going to be elevated when you've got multiple MVPs and being talked about as an all-time great - both of which are well-deserved.

I'm not sure I'd knock him for his leadership but I'm OK with him getting the bulk of the blame if the Nuggs lose in the playoffs. That's how it goes with superstars.

I agree that the super star should be scrutinized in the playoffs if their team loses but context matters. Who are their teammates and are their teammates healthly and showing up?

Did that superstar put up their regular season numbers or even better or did their numbers dip in the playoffs drastically.

Without context you have people will make statements like Curry was better than Lebron during 2015-2020 because he had more playoff success and rings than Lebron (I've heard people make this argument before), when it's clear that Curry had the better team most of the times he faced Lebron and the Cavs.

[dhsilv2]

His rim defense is putrid

Unless you can make his standing reach 3 inches better...that's just an issue that isn't getting fixed.

Jokic’s standing reach is more than a half foot longer than Marc Gasol. The issue with his rim defense isn’t his measurements or lack of athleticism. Its effort.

Not remotely the case at the rim...

[KGtabake]

Maybe he must begin spitting fires from his mouth.
Can't believe the audacity here.
What else does the guy have to do?
Unreal.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

If something is not working in the locker room, the best player must be held accountable for that. He commands enough respect to make everyone follow him. But it's not happening, and I think we should stop blaming everyone but him.

That seems odd. He's doing his job. He doesn't have telepathic control over his teammates, nor the ability to do their jobs for them. Cam Johnson had a rough one and Jamal Murray didn't play the 4th due to injury. Jokic himself didn't have a particularly strong shooting performance, especially in the 4th, but the idea that he should be singled out over and above everyone else doesn't make sense. That isn't how leadership works; guys don't just WILL the rest of the team to do their jobs.

The job of the best player in a NBA team is more than that. There's always an emotional and leadership component that he's not mastering.
He's not being singled out because they lost, he's being singled out because there's a pattern of the Nuggets f around and giving poor effort on defense, coming out of shape, when last year the locker room was train wreck.

[Stan]

We're well past the honeymoon phase with Jokic. The expectations are going to be elevated when you've got multiple MVPs and being talked about as an all-time great - both of which are well-deserved.

I'm not sure I'd knock him for his leadership but I'm OK with him getting the bulk of the blame if the Nuggs lose in the playoffs. That's how it goes with superstars.

If he puts up ATG production in the playoffs and they lose, he should get the blame for it? Where is the logic in that lol. It's a team sport, not golf or tennis, an individual player can only do so much. By that same token, in the virtually impossible scenario he didn't play well and the Nuggets were able to win, he shouldn't get extra credit for that, he should be judged primarily by how he individually performs.

Arguing that if Jokic averaged 35/10/10 but lost to a 74 win Thunder team he should get blamed for it is frankly an abysmal take.

[tsherkin]

The job of the best player in a NBA team is more than that. There's always an emotional and leadership component that he's not mastering.
He's not being singled out because they lost, he's being singled out because there's a pattern of the Nuggets f around and giving poor effort on defense, coming out of shape, when last year the locker room was train wreck.

None of us are in the locker room, so we don't really know jack about what his emotional, leadership component looks like, to be honest. And at some point, you can flap your lips all you like, but people still don't necessarily listen, you know what I mean? For example, Jordan's vaunted leadership wasn't worth anything at all prior to Phil and Scottie and Ho Grant and everyone while he was rocking sub-.500 seasons and getting swept in the playoffs. What we know is that his style was more vocal and visible, that's all. And then often had to be smoothed over afterward. So again, we don't REALLY know anything about what's going on with what Jokic is or isn't doing.

What we know is that Denver was injured and lost a game, and people are always looking for a reason to rip on Joker.

[DimesandKnicks]

Unless you can make his standing reach 3 inches better...that's just an issue that isn't getting fixed.

Jokic’s standing reach is more than a half foot longer than Marc Gasol. The issue with his rim defense isn’t his measurements or lack of athleticism. Its effort.

Not remotely the case at the rim...

Rules of life according to dhsilv2. As long as you believe it it’s true

[Ritzo]

You clearly didn't watch him enough. Maybe you only watch him in highlights. He's a very vocal leader

[dhsilv2]

Jokic’s standing reach is more than a half foot longer than Marc Gasol. The issue with his rim defense isn’t his measurements or lack of athleticism. Its effort.

Not remotely the case at the rim...

Rules of life according to dhsilv2. As long as you believe it it’s true

We've covered this...it's just nonsense at this point. You still have this wild idea that he's a bad defender.

[Calvin Klein]

Think about how athletic a guy like Jokic is, what he can still do even with that limitation and then some people will still "call you out" because you are not elite on defense.

[Duke4life831]

Haha fans talking about leadership are like fans talking about who are the best assistant coaches. AKA you have zero idea, the only thing we know as fans when it comes to stuff like this, is whatever PR the team decides to give us.

We have no clue what kind of leader Jokic is in the locker room or off the court. As fans we love this idea that the more we pay attention, the more we can pickup on these other things that dont show up on the TV. But that's just not reality haha.

Here is what we know, Denver has 1 star and good depth. But when you take away 2 starters, who are also their best 2 defenders. Also the ideal 2 guys to put on the 2 guys that went off for Dallas (Braun on Nembhard and Gordon on Flagg). Then Jamal Murray got banged up early in the game, kept trying to play banged up until they finally just sat him.

Ya Dallas is still an NBA team. Especially with Anthony Davis back and looking like AD, Flagg looking like the star #1 pick and Nembhard having a random game going off.

Its a regular season loss in December when by the 4th quarter youre down 3 starters. Really dont have to try and dig too deep into this.

[DimesandKnicks]

Not remotely the case at the rim...

Rules of life according to dhsilv2. As long as you believe it it’s true

We've covered this...it's just nonsense at this point. You still have this wild idea that he's a bad defender.

Freaking wildddd man!!!

You spent a month telling me to “quantify” his defensive impact and then when asked to “quantify” how is strengths “offset” his weaknesses you said “Let’s try and talk about this differently

I’m not talking to you about anything breh

[hagredionis]

Do you hold the same accountability for the Luka and his lack of defense?

Luka is not a center so it's not his job to anchor the defense and provide rim protection. But that is the job of a center. That's how basketball works, the center is the most important position for a good defense.

It's not the center's job to run the offense, be the offensive hub and anchor for the team and lead the team in assist but Jokic does this greater than any player in the game who is not a guard.

Your take makes me feel like I'm still in 2005 or something.

I don't understand what exactly is your point? I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote above but were talking about defense and that's where he struggles.

[Ssj16]

Luka is not a center so it's not his job to anchor the defense and provide rim protection. But that is the job of a center. That's how basketball works, the center is the most important position for a good defense.

It's not the center's job to run the offense, be the offensive hub and anchor for the team and lead the team in assist but Jokic does this greater than any player in the game who is not a guard.

Your take makes me feel like I'm still in 2005 or something.

I don't understand what exactly is your point? I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote above but were talking about defense and that's where he struggles.

The point is not every team needs to follow a "conventional" or "traditional" scheme to be successful.

You're talking about traditional basketball tropes as if the only way to win a championship is to have a center who is a rim protector who anchors your defense when we just went a decade with teams showing success playing small ball and not having a traditional center in during crunch time.

The make up of Denver doesn't rely on Jokic's defense. It relies on his offense and others to shore up the defensive deficiencies. Just like Goldenstate's lineup of death could work without a traditional center in crunch time.

Imagine if you remove Iggy and Draymond from the death lineup, how impactful would it be? Now imagine removing Aaron Gordon and C Braun from Denver's lineup. You don't need to, you're seeing the impact right now.

[canada_dry]

Sometimes your best players aren't your lockerroom leaders. As long as you have 1 elsewhere thats ok.

I don't even think thats applicable to jokic. He's consistently coaching his teammates in huddles etc. Getting frustrated and asking more of them. We've all seen this.

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[Special_Puppy]

If something is not working in the locker room, the best player must be held accountable for that. He commands enough respect to make everyone follow him. But it's not happening, and I think we should stop blaming everyone but him.

That seems odd. He's doing his job. He doesn't have telepathic control over his teammates, nor the ability to do their jobs for them. Cam Johnson had a rough one and Jamal Murray didn't play the 4th due to injury. Jokic himself didn't have a particularly strong shooting performance, especially in the 4th, but the idea that he should be singled out over and above everyone else doesn't make sense. That isn't how leadership works; guys don't just WILL the rest of the team to do their jobs.

e isn't getting it done when someone of his talent level should be the deciding factor in a close game against a 6 win team.

He had 29 points, 20 rebounds, and 13 assists (with a +9.8 EPM). What more do you want from him

[dhsilv2]

Rules of life according to dhsilv2. As long as you believe it it’s true

We've covered this...it's just nonsense at this point. You still have this wild idea that he's a bad defender.

Freaking wildddd man!!!

You spent a month telling me to “quantify” his defensive impact and then when asked to “quantify” how is strengths “offset” his weaknesses you said “Let’s try and talk about this differently

I’m not talking to you about anything breh

Yes I remember it in all the stagging pain! I don't think I've ever won an argument anywhere in life before so wildly

[tsherkin]

He had 29 points, 20 rebounds, and 13 assists (with a +9.8 EPM). What more do you want from him

Better shooting in the fourth, probably, but I mean, he was probably exhausted after bootstrapping the team the whole game, so...