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eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
Great explanation.Bergmaniac wrote:eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
Apart from being a very good player and emotional leader, one of the factors for this is that early on in the season he was playing with more energy than anyone else by some margin, I think the minute restriction helped him in this regard. In his four games he played less than 20 minutes he had a net rating of 27.4, 41.8, 6.7 and 54.1 respectively. His impact stats have come down to Earth lately, in the last 10 games he has negative on/off.
Also he has played fewer minutes with Tyus (only 36) than anyone else in the main rotation. It always helps your on/off numbers when your main backup is awful.
eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
That's the lineup I'm begging forbigdogdylan5 wrote:eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
He covers the gaps it’s that simple. Defense is way more disruptive with him and he is the closest of our elite players to an actual point guard. I would be interested to look at the differential when Suggs is out there with Black to when it’s just Black. I bet it’s significant as it allows Black to just do what he is great at.
I bet if we played this lineup extensively it could be one of the best lineups in the NBA.
Suggs
Bane
Black
Franz
Paolo
eyriq wrote:That's the lineup I'm begging forbigdogdylan5 wrote:eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
He covers the gaps it’s that simple. Defense is way more disruptive with him and he is the closest of our elite players to an actual point guard. I would be interested to look at the differential when Suggs is out there with Black to when it’s just Black. I bet it’s significant as it allows Black to just do what he is great at.
I bet if we played this lineup extensively it could be one of the best lineups in the NBA.
Suggs
Bane
Black
Franz
Paolo
bigdogdylan5 wrote:eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
He covers the gaps it’s that simple. Defense is way more disruptive with him and he is the closest of our elite players to an actual point guard. I would be interested to look at the differential when Suggs is out there with Black to when it’s just Black. I bet it’s significant as it allows Black to just do what he is great at.
AB and Suggs are soul mates??!!?Bergmaniac wrote:bigdogdylan5 wrote:eyriq wrote:Looking at lineup data will leave you thinking Suggs is our MVP. Starting and bench units are significantly better with Suggs. We are +5.1 net overall, +10.8 with Suggs on, +1.4 with him off. He's the common thread across our best lineups.
Why is he standing out in this way?
He covers the gaps it’s that simple. Defense is way more disruptive with him and he is the closest of our elite players to an actual point guard. I would be interested to look at the differential when Suggs is out there with Black to when it’s just Black. I bet it’s significant as it allows Black to just do what he is great at.
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612753&Season=2025-26&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1641710,1630591
eyriq wrote:AB and Suggs are soul mates??!!?Bergmaniac wrote:bigdogdylan5 wrote:He covers the gaps it’s that simple. Defense is way more disruptive with him and he is the closest of our elite players to an actual point guard. I would be interested to look at the differential when Suggs is out there with Black to when it’s just Black. I bet it’s significant as it allows Black to just do what he is great at.
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612753&Season=2025-26&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1641710,1630591
eyriq wrote:What is different about a Franz-less team vs a Paolo-less team?
Franz is a universal adapter, he can plug-and-play in a variety of lineups and assume a variety of roles. Primary engine? Connector? Primary wing-defender? No problem.
Paolo is a primary engine. Rotations become a bit more awkward, depth becomes a bit more essential, since you need to fill the roles that Franz could seamlessly slide into. Can TDS handle primary wing defense or secondary playmaking? That fit could be even worse than it was with Franz. JI can handle primary wing defense but you lose playmaking and spacing.
I think the "AB is a wing" theory gets tested without Franz.
That's a crazy contrast. I don't think it explains much, though. Lacks context about roles across various rotations and matchups.Idiosyncratic wrote:eyriq wrote:What is different about a Franz-less team vs a Paolo-less team?
Franz is a universal adapter, he can plug-and-play in a variety of lineups and assume a variety of roles. Primary engine? Connector? Primary wing-defender? No problem.
Paolo is a primary engine. Rotations become a bit more awkward, depth becomes a bit more essential, since you need to fill the roles that Franz could seamlessly slide into. Can TDS handle primary wing defense or secondary playmaking? That fit could be even worse than it was with Franz. JI can handle primary wing defense but you lose playmaking and spacing.
I think the "AB is a wing" theory gets tested without Franz.
Franz has a career +312 plus minus even though he played on the #1 pick 21/22 team.
Paolo is at -214 career despite not being on that horrible team.
That's the difference.
There are so many free games that I think they probably should still be able to win a bunch, but obviously would not predict much playoff success without Franz.
eyriq wrote:That's a crazy contrast. I don't think it explains much, though. Lacks context about roles across various rotations and matchups.Idiosyncratic wrote:eyriq wrote:What is different about a Franz-less team vs a Paolo-less team?
Franz is a universal adapter, he can plug-and-play in a variety of lineups and assume a variety of roles. Primary engine? Connector? Primary wing-defender? No problem.
Paolo is a primary engine. Rotations become a bit more awkward, depth becomes a bit more essential, since you need to fill the roles that Franz could seamlessly slide into. Can TDS handle primary wing defense or secondary playmaking? That fit could be even worse than it was with Franz. JI can handle primary wing defense but you lose playmaking and spacing.
I think the "AB is a wing" theory gets tested without Franz.
Franz has a career +312 plus minus even though he played on the #1 pick 21/22 team.
Paolo is at -214 career despite not being on that horrible team.
That's the difference.
There are so many free games that I think they probably should still be able to win a bunch, but obviously would not predict much playoff success without Franz.
It doesn't take revision it takes common sense. I've watched him play. He's been our best player in the playoffs. And in large chunks of the regular season. Raw plus minus does not tell the story, nor do fancy impact stats. They don't factor in role difficulty or rotations. You have to balance production, role, and impact stats if you want to get a good picture of future performance. There's a reason why coaches voted him in as an All-Star there's a reason why he's been the number one option from the get-go there's a reason why he's getting the double teams.Idiosyncratic wrote:eyriq wrote:That's a crazy contrast. I don't think it explains much, though. Lacks context about roles across various rotations and matchups.Idiosyncratic wrote:
Franz has a career +312 plus minus even though he played on the #1 pick 21/22 team.
Paolo is at -214 career despite not being on that horrible team.
That's the difference.
There are so many free games that I think they probably should still be able to win a bunch, but obviously would not predict much playoff success without Franz.
I disagree, that's a large sample. Plus minus/ net rating ain't lying over the course of that many games for guys who play that many minutes. It doesn't tell ~everything~ but it is a significant data point.
Paolo hasn't been a large positive on the court in his career yet. Even if you believe in the guy there is no point revising what has already happened. We expect that to change, but so far it hasn't. Significantly below league average TS% combined with poor defense makes that very easy to comprehend. I believe in AB, but I would say the same about him. He hasn't been a huge positive yet. I think he is trending that way, just as I think Paolo was trending that way pre injury. Young players get better, but compared to Franz who already has had elite impact both will look a lot worse.
I expect some will label me a hater for pointing out a fact. But I still think the guy will get better, but if we are talking his career to this point the on/off, the scoring efficiency and the defense have been not that good. I fully expect he will get better, he's still young. Doesn't mean I fully expect him to be a bigger positive than Franz though.
I think Paolo will improve and I think the rest of the team is good enough this year to where we will still win a lot of games even if Franz misses significant time, especially combined with what feels like a league that lacks elite teams. We have schedule stretches coming up that are like Pacers, Wizards, Bulls, Nets , Pacers, Sixers, Pelicans, Grizzlies, Grizzlies, Hornets
