Shams: Raps one of teams to pursue Anthony Davis

[YogurtProducer]

If you think Anthony Davis, Barnes, Ingram is not competing to come out of the East, then you have no clue what you’re talking about.

Do you think IQ/Dick/Ingram/Barnes/AD is a lock to be a HCA team? Like assuming AD only plays 40 of the remaining 60 games do you think we are a lock for 50+ wins?

Because this is the same argument I am making in another thread regarding Bam. Is losing RJ + Poeltl + more more detrimental from a depth perspective than adding the top tier player? Especially since in this world Ingram is still your #1 bucket getter and it doesn't change that Ingram is not a tier 1 bucket getter.

AD is great - but can you win with AD as your best player? I don't think you can because AD needed that Lebron to be the #1 guy. I don't think BI is that #1 guy.

You removed the second part of my post which was about injuries. From a healthy team perspective,AD is still a top 10 player in the league and you can fit players around that roster to easily be a HC team. When healthy imo he is the third best big in the game above Embiid. He’s one of the legit two way elite players in the league.

I am not going to argue about his injuries though. That dude never plays and that’s where Bobby would have to be very sure

The thing is AD is also old, so there is no time to "fit around him". You bring him in and gotta win within 18 months because he very well could be 100% washed before his contract is even up.

[Mack11]

seriously why are we always involved in these bum ass trades? lol like damn nobody wants AD or lamelo here..its gotta be for clicks right

[LJKO]

As much as i would love Davis on the Raptors his fit is theoretical because of how injury prone he is. When healthy he is an otherworldly talent but at 33 i don’t think he will magically become Cal Ripken Jr

i'd take Davis in a heartbeat. Raptors have the goat Alex McKechnie to keep him healthy

[Grew]

The only way I would want AD is if Jak went out in the deal, and Lively came back.

[sidsid]

He's played 60+ games twice in the past 7 seasons (not including the active season). Dude is never healthy.

He's an amazing player when he IS healthy, but we aren't poised to contend even with him, and he WILL miss games. He's older, he's frail, he doesn't like playing center to begin with... and we'd have to sell off anything even RESEMBLING depth and breadth of offensive options to even acquire him.

Not sure how much I love that idea. He won't position us well on his own, so there'd have to be some other move to go with it, and we'd have almost nothing left besides him, BI and Scottie after, no?

Yeah, AD is a play you make when you are on year 5 of winning 50+ games, have a ton of depth, and need to take a risk (ala - Kawhi in 2019).

Not year 1 of maybe finishing with an above .500 record.

Yes, this, exactly.

Trading a lightly protected lottery pick for BI is the type of trade you make when you've reached the playoffs for a couple years and looking for some added juice, but that was made after an unplanned tank.

We were in the mix for a near 40yo KD just this summer. The FO doesn't believe in organic growth, it believes in reaching a floor at all costs, immediately. And that you can trade your way out of any problem, until you are forced to tank mid-year.

That's how we got Jak, IQ, RJ and BI. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

[anotherhomer]

thinking about it. Shams gets his info from Rich Paul. I believe this is more of a tactic to get potential teams to offer a good extension

[sidsid]

Okay there are two things here:

If you think Anthony Davis, Barnes, Ingram is not competing to come out of the East, then you have no clue what you’re talking about.

If your argument is that he’s always injured and that’s the only concern, I agree with you.

Is Dallas just trying to dump him or save face in the Luka trade?

I mean, the west has one powerhouse that is also one of the youngest teams in the league and getting better. It still has the 3 time MVP team in his prime there. The new generational talent/GOAT contender that picked up even more top lottery talent this year, poised to become the new OKC in a few years.

They should be tanking and getting futures knowing they already have a nice piece to work with in the future. Because there is no "now" that includes being contenders with AD in the short term.

[tsherkin]

Trading a lightly protected lottery pick for BI is the type of trade you make when you've reached the playoffs for a couple years and looking for some added juice, but that was made after an unplanned tank.

We were in the mix for a near 40yo KD just this summer. The FO doesn't believe in organic growth, it believes in reaching a floor at all costs, immediately. And that you can trade your way out of any problem, until you are forced to tank mid-year.

That's how we got Jak, IQ, RJ and BI. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

You aren't wrong, but there it is. We're being a little hasty. BI was a bargain deal, hard to pass up, and it just isn't a super viable solution to just be dog-ass year after year. You do have to engage the fanbase, because most of them aren't patient enough to tank every year. A team like Washington has like 50 years of being crap, so at some point it's just expected with them, but the tank is really bad for morale and fandom and so forth. And no doubt, our ownership has no interest in lost revenue from missing the playoffs.

At some point, we need to get lucky in order to advance, but at least this way, we should be keeping the team's head above water.

The specific problem with AD is that between his health and how much we'd have to give up, his overall impact isn't going to be anywhere near what his name implies.

I suppose he has one more year and then a PO, so it isn't actually a LONG contract, but it's gonna be pretty rough trying to build around him... while he ages further, and we still don't have enough in the backcourt. And even less after any trade.

[causal_fan]

Whichever team agrees to extend an aging, injury prone Anthony Davis for 4/275 including 75+m in his age 37 season will be the biggest loser - I truly hope it's not the Raptors because it will likely mean another decade in the wilderness.

[sidsid]

I really like AD, but I don't see this as the right time to make such a trade. Also...Scottie/Ingram/AD seems like a problematic spacing thing.

He has range out to the 3 and his main action is the mid-range. He's also a superstar with the gravity that comes with. He would be replacing Jak, who is a non-shooter who defenses ignore.

This is a pure, massive upgrade in those respects.

He does come with a lot more usage than Jak, but RJ would be out the door in this trade and it's a good chunk of offense that he could soak up.

[Pointgod]

AD hates playing Center

You start him at PF and go to jumbo lineup of Poeltl, AD, Barnes, Ingram, Quickley

rj and what 25 mil salary are you trading?

You got me you have to trade both RJ and Poeltl or Quickley to make the money work

[tsherkin]

He has range out to the 3 and his main action is the mid-range. He's also a superstar with the gravity that comes with. He would be replacing Jak, who is a non-shooter who defenses ignore.

He's a 29.6% career 3pt shooter who has had a single season better than 33.1% in the past 13 years, and has shot under 30% 9 times, including the entire past half-decade. He's also HIGHLY inconsistent from the corner.

I wouldn't be trumpeting his range out to the 3pt line real loud at this point.

He has many other virtues when he is actually on the court, but that isn't really one of them.

[Son Goku 25]

Wonder how deep in Pistons are with this trade

[sidsid]

Trading a lightly protected lottery pick for BI is the type of trade you make when you've reached the playoffs for a couple years and looking for some added juice, but that was made after an unplanned tank.

We were in the mix for a near 40yo KD just this summer. The FO doesn't believe in organic growth, it believes in reaching a floor at all costs, immediately. And that you can trade your way out of any problem, until you are forced to tank mid-year.

That's how we got Jak, IQ, RJ and BI. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

You aren't wrong, but there it is. We're being a little hasty. BI was a bargain deal, hard to pass up, and it just isn't a super viable solution to just be dog-ass year after year. You do have to engage the fanbase, because most of them aren't patient enough to tank every year. A team like Washington has like 50 years of being crap, so at some point it's just expected with them, but the tank is really bad for morale and fandom and so forth. And no doubt, our ownership has no interest in lost revenue from missing the playoffs.

At some point, we need to get lucky in order to advance, but at least this way, we should be keeping the team's head above water.

The specific problem with AD is that between his health and how much we'd have to give up, his overall impact isn't going to be anywhere near what his name implies.

I suppose he has one more year and then a PO, so it isn't actually a LONG contract, but it's gonna be pretty rough trying to build around him... while he ages further, and we still don't have enough in the backcourt. And even less after any trade.

That's the general problem of this philosophical approach. You want to consistently make the moves, big and small, that come at the expense of the cheaper, higher potential value assets. You're always on that tax, depth, low asset precipice.

A team like the Spurs can trade mostly other teams futures for a younger all star, while maintaining their still productive youth for that eventual superstar trade if they want to. You only create that position if you are willing to invest, and suffer, through the lean years.

All this to say is that we likely won't ever be in that more comfortable zone of quality asset/depth/youth position to buffer that risk because the FO doesn't want to be in that position. Trades like this, at this juncture, are built into the philosophy

[MiamiSPX]

seriously why are we always involved in these bum ass trades? lol like damn nobody wants AD or lamelo here..its gotta be for clicks right

I think so. Our FO is notorious for not shooting down any rumors, regardless of which Raptor is supposedly going the other way. Every media outlet just automatically includes us for the traffic it generates.

[tsherkin]

That's the general problem of this philosophical approach. You want to consistently make the moves, big and small, that come at the expense of the cheaper, higher potential value assets. You're always on that tax, depth, low asset precipice.

A team like the Spurs can trade mostly other teams futures for a younger all star, while maintaining their still productive youth for that eventual superstar trade if they want to. You only create that position if you are willing to invest, and suffer, through the lean years.

All this to say is that we likely won't ever be in that more comfortable zone of quality asset/depth/youth position to buffer that risk because the FO doesn't want to be in that position. Trades like this, at this juncture, are built into the philosophy

Sure, but it is the reality of our ownership, and they aren't going to change because they are a corporate entity as opposed to a rich owner playing around with their money. So that's sort of an immovable given with which we must contend.

But even the Spurs, they had 6 bad years (the last two with their generational prospect). So really 4, when you consider that they got their guy. We've missed (relatively speaking) on a lot of our picks in terms of trying to find "That Guy," so here we are. if that hadn't happened when we were drafting high, we'd be in a different position, but it did and we didn't get a sufficiently good pick in this year's draft.

Such is life in the NBA.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

If pistons trade duren for AD they are hella stupid

[navyblue]

Sure, but it is the reality of our ownership, and they aren't going to change because they are a corporate entity as opposed to a rich owner playing around with their money. So that's sort of an immovable given with which we must contend.

the jays are spending like a rich owner.

[tsherkin]

the jays are spending like a rich owner.

Sure, because they're positioned to win. What I was saying is that our corporate owners won't let us be crap over an extended period of time when there are moves which can mitigate that, not that they won't spend.

A rich owner who is just screwing around can afford to pull "love of the game" type things and be patient and what-not, whereas our ownership is motivated to keep us around .500 or better instead of permitting the tank over too many seasons.

[Tripod]

He has range out to the 3 and his main action is the mid-range. He's also a superstar with the gravity that comes with. He would be replacing Jak, who is a non-shooter who defenses ignore.

He's a 29.6% career 3pt shooter who has had a single season better than 33.1% in the past 13 years, and has shot under 30% 9 times, including the entire past half-decade. He's also HIGHLY inconsistent from the corner.

I wouldn't be trumpeting his range out to the 3pt line real loud at this point.

He has many other virtues when he is actually on the court, but that isn't really one of them.

Agreed.

But I think the point was more of if Barnes/BI can play with Yak who brings no shooting at all, they can play with a better big guy who does draw attention.