PG: BENCH SLOBS SHART THE COURT

[kalel123]

There is no way CMB will be as good as Scottie Barnes. Scottie has physical attributes outlier even for NBA, while CMB is undersized.

Mmmm. He's 6'7 without shoes, 6'8 in shoes, was drafted at 225. Wingspan was 7'2.75", standing reach 9'. The size isn't a crazy outlier, though that reach is something like +7.5", which is good stuff. His quickness is nothing to write home about in terms of explosion, though he moves well laterally. Again, not really at an outlier level.

I wouldn't really be looking at him as a wild physical outlier. He's strong and he's got reach, and he has reasonable height for a combo forward. He's also got a very good head on his shoulders in terms of predicting the play, communication and all that.

Meantime, CMB was half an inch shorter than Scottie at the draft without shoes (6'6.5"), and 239 pounds, with a 7'0.75" wingspan. So again, we're talking about a half inch of height and two inches difference in wingspan. His standing reach is only 2" less than Scottie and he's actually sturdier of build. He's definitely not undersized relative to Barnes.

Dude's decisively shorter or less long with more bulk. And decisively less explosive though Barnes has also been less explosive than you would think he should be. He's also rather slow off the ground off the jump, which is why he misses a lot of those bunnies inside.

CMB is more suited to play against bigger size due to his bulk but I don't really see his ceiling being as high. Not saying he's not good but the gap is definitely there.

[whitehops]

CMB's offense appears quite limited. He was a 2 year college player so no excuses. He should be more advanced at this point. Luckily, he is in NBA where they pamper players endlessly.

agree his offense is very limited but he's been a beast on the on the offensive boards so if he can't create on the perimeter or space the floor he may as well crash boards relentlessly and create extra possessions.

[Indeed]

Advanced stats are rather similar, just that Barnes was played in more minutes, where raw stats are much better.

Barnes was as raw as CMB on offense back then, with Siakam and Anunoby playing the bigger positions. CMB doesn't get the start, and his raw stats are not pretty limited because of minutes.

But yeah, CMB won't be rookie of the year, Flagg is just a much better player, and much better than anyone in the Barnes draft. Flagg already scored 20ppg with less being assisted.

How are you still defending this? Barnes was MUCH better than CMB in their rookie years and thats with CMB being a year older too.

I like the kid but CMB is a poor man's rookie Barnes at the moment.

There is no way CMB will be as good as Scottie Barnes. Scottie has physical attributes outlier even for NBA, while CMB is undersized.

Watch on YouTube

I disagree that a good defender is bounded by stocks.
Good positioning, good timing, etc. Certainly I agree on the hustle with his physical tools and his improved post defense, which results in stocks, but it is also clear that CMB has a great impact on defense from the last 2 games.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Scottish Barnes with another triple double with 14 rebs in 33 mins. He needs to be on Nicholas Nurse diet of minutes, especially when the bench doesn't have it

[PushDaRock]

37/27/81 team shooting percentages. That's... savagely bad.

We did very well on the O-boards. Ingram and Scottie had nice games. So did RJ.

The bench was useless, and we basically couldn't crawl out of the first quarter hole.

CMB got shots and sucked from any sort of distance, but he was crushing the boards. Mamu had a dreadful game. First half D was a huge problem.

Denver didn't even play well, particularly in the second half. Their overall shooting was pretty rough. We just couldn't capitalize, and had absolutely no offense from the bench.

Rough one.

Nice to see the big three looking good on O, though. Quick had a rough one, despite getting to the line a ton. But Scottie, RJ and BI looked good, and that at least is promising.

It felt like we would pull this one out despite the really poor first half. The offense just couldn't get going outside of the start of the 3rd Q, missed so many makeable shots that it didn't matter we were stopping them. FT's ended up being the difference as well, fouled them way too much against a team that should have had trouble scoring and couple late missed ones from BI and IQ hurt too.

[Indeed]

There is no way CMB will be as good as Scottie Barnes. Scottie has physical attributes outlier even for NBA, while CMB is undersized.

Mmmm. He's 6'7 without shoes, 6'8 in shoes, was drafted at 225. Wingspan was 7'2.75", standing reach 9'. The size isn't a crazy outlier, though that reach is something like +7.5", which is good stuff. His quickness is nothing to write home about in terms of explosion, though he moves well laterally. Again, not really at an outlier level.

I wouldn't really be looking at him as a wild physical outlier. He's strong and he's got reach, and he has reasonable height for a combo forward. He's also got a very good head on his shoulders in terms of predicting the play, communication and all that.

Meantime, CMB was half an inch shorter than Scottie at the draft without shoes (6'6.5"), and 239 pounds, with a 7'0.75" wingspan. So again, we're talking about a half inch of height and two inches difference in wingspan. His standing reach is only 2" less than Scottie and he's actually sturdier of build. He's definitely not undersized relative to Barnes.

Dude's decisively shorter or less long with more bulk. And decisively less explosive though Barnes has also been less explosive than you would think he should be. He's also rather slow off the ground off the jump, which is why he misses a lot of those bunnies inside.

CMB is more suited to play against bigger size due to his bulk but I don't really see his ceiling being as high. Not saying he's not good but the gap is definitely there.

You have it the other way around. CMB is laterally quicker, particularly against guards. CMB should able to guard 1 to 4. Barnes is stronger, particularly against forwards, but he can mainly guard 4 to 2, which is the reason Barnes is more roaming around as the help defender instead of the PoA defender.

[tsherkin]

It felt like we would pull this one out despite the really poor first half. The offense just couldn't get going outside of the start of the 3rd Q, missed so many makeable shots that it didn't matter we were stopping them. FT's ended up being the difference as well, fouled them way too much against a team that should have had trouble scoring and couple late missed ones from BI and IQ hurt too.

It's all survivable stuff if the bench hadn't been THAT brutal.

Dude's decisively shorter or less long with more bulk.

A 2" difference in reach isn't the largest issue, in all truth. Barnes does have an edge there, but it's not really enough to call CMB "undersized" relative to Scottie.

CMB is more suited to play against bigger size due to his bulk but I don't really see his ceiling being as high. Not saying he's not good but the gap is definitely there.

Overall ceiling is about more than size, to be sure, but that's why I was only addressing the size

[Los_29]

Such a joke. Unwatchable product unless we make some trades. Otherwise tank it away. We have a generational draft coming up

We hear this every year. lol.

You should go check attendence, ratings and our allstar voting results if you think people arent tuning this franchise out. Most people I know dont give a crap about tbe Raptors after being hardcore fans for so long...

I’m referring to it being a generational draft. We hear that every year. Givony said last year’s draft class was like the best in 20 years. lol.

[PushDaRock]

It felt like we would pull this one out despite the really poor first half. The offense just couldn't get going outside of the start of the 3rd Q, missed so many makeable shots that it didn't matter we were stopping them. FT's ended up being the difference as well, fouled them way too much against a team that should have had trouble scoring and couple late missed ones from BI and IQ hurt too.

It's all survivable stuff if the bench hadn't been THAT brutal.

Dude's decisively shorter or less long with more bulk.

A 2" difference in reach isn't the largest issue, in all truth. Barnes does have an edge there, but it's not really enough to call CMB "undersized" relative to Scottie.

CMB is more suited to play against bigger size due to his bulk but I don't really see his ceiling being as high. Not saying he's not good but the gap is definitely there.

Overall ceiling is about more than size, to be sure, but that's why I was only addressing the size

It was brutal watching them just pack the paint, go to zone at times and dare the bench guys to shoot open 3's that they kept bricking.

[Sandman88]

Deserved L. This team can’t take care of business. So called shooters are constantly bricking, and the IQ pg experiment needs to end soon

[mdenny]

We hear this every year. lol.

You should go check attendence, ratings and our allstar voting results if you think people arent tuning this franchise out. Most people I know dont give a crap about tbe Raptors after being hardcore fans for so long...

I’m referring to it being a generational draft. We hear that every year. Givony said last year’s draft class was like the best in 20 years. lol.

Scotty's draft was by far the best in recent memory yah? It was also called "generational". The way i remember it....not a single player fulfilled the potential ppl were talking about. Cade and mobley and scotty and suggs all became really good players. But none of them are even sniffing "generational".

It's 5 years later and how much impact has it had on actual winning? Unless i'm forgetting someone....None of the teams that got the best players from that draft made it to the third round last playoffs.

So it's a good way of putting it inot perspective. Even if it IS a really, really good draft....it really doesn't change the league and franchises as much as the draft hype ppl claim and imply.

[canada_dry]

This team is 4th in East currently. But 4 teams are right behind them and Raps could easily be 8th in a week or 2. Will the narrative change then?

Do you want it to?

I feel like you want it to.

[ItsDanger]

You should go check attendence, ratings and our allstar voting results if you think people arent tuning this franchise out. Most people I know dont give a crap about tbe Raptors after being hardcore fans for so long...

I’m referring to it being a generational draft. We hear that every year. Givony said last year’s draft class was like the best in 20 years. lol.

Scotty's draft was by far the best in recent memory yah? It was also called "generational". The way i remember it....not a single player fulfilled the potential ppl were talking about. Cade and mobley and scotty and suggs all became really good players. But none of them are even sniffing "generational".

It's 5 years later and how much impact has it had on actual winning? Unless i'm forgetting someone....None of the teams that got the best players from that draft made it to the third round last playoffs.

So it's a good way of putting it inot perspective. Even if it IS a really, really good draft....it really doesn't change the league and franchises as much as the draft hype ppl claim and imply.

Why choose making semi finals as barometer? Classic case of starting with answer and working backwards to justify the claim. Just brutal.

[canada_dry]

Seeing Walter on the court with less than 3 minutes left when he was absolute crap all game is completely on the coach.

Starting small with Ochai over CMB when youre going against JV is all on the coach.

Benching your best 3 shooter repeatedly over scrubs who keep bricking 3s is all on the coach.

Darko'd.

[mdenny]

I’m referring to it being a generational draft. We hear that every year. Givony said last year’s draft class was like the best in 20 years. lol.

Scotty's draft was by far the best in recent memory yah? It was also called "generational". The way i remember it....not a single player fulfilled the potential ppl were talking about. Cade and mobley and scotty and suggs all became really good players. But none of them are even sniffing "generational".

It's 5 years later and how much impact has it had on actual winning? Unless i'm forgetting someone....None of the teams that got the best players from that draft made it to the third round last playoffs.

So it's a good way of putting it inot perspective. Even if it IS a really, really good draft....it really doesn't change the league and franchises as much as the draft hype ppl claim and imply.

Why choose making semi finals as barometer? Classic case of starting with answer and working backwards to justify the claim. Just brutal.

I remember the hype of that draft. 4 franchise players. It's 5 years later. Not one of the teams has made a conference final since.

Of course team success should be the barometer. That's the whole point.

[ItsDanger]

Scotty's draft was by far the best in recent memory yah? It was also called "generational". The way i remember it....not a single player fulfilled the potential ppl were talking about. Cade and mobley and scotty and suggs all became really good players. But none of them are even sniffing "generational".

It's 5 years later and how much impact has it had on actual winning? Unless i'm forgetting someone....None of the teams that got the best players from that draft made it to the third round last playoffs.

So it's a good way of putting it inot perspective. Even if it IS a really, really good draft....it really doesn't change the league and franchises as much as the draft hype ppl claim and imply.

Why choose making semi finals as barometer? Classic case of starting with answer and working backwards to justify the claim. Just brutal.

I remember the hype of that draft. 4 franchise players. It's 5 years later. Not one of the teams has made a conference final since.

Of course team success should be the barometer. That's the whole point.

Thats no explanation relative to the entire league at all.

[C Court]

Just got back from the game. We really thought BI tied it at the buzzer.

That said, it was an entertaining game. The Raptors couldn’t make a shot. Just one of those nights.

Just before Gradey was pulled out of the game, Darko stepped onto the court during play and literally grabbed Gradey and repositioned him in the corner. LOL.

[MEDIC]

Fun game. This team needs some legit 3 point specialists.

From game to game, I don't know who is going to be reliable & who isn't. Our role playera aren't strong enough.

[tsherkin]

It was brutal watching them just pack the paint, go to zone at times and dare the bench guys to shoot open 3's that they kept bricking.

Yeah. And we went 0-for, which was just... 0/18, man. That's rough. Not a SINGLE triple from the bench. Our starters shot over 44% from 3. But damn... yikes. The bench.

[Tripod]

Odd...we didn't see "Shead should be starting PG" posts tonight.