[Stein] - Hawks More Open To Trading Trae Young; Would Include Zaccharie Risacher In Right Deal

[Mark_83]

Look at how quickly the hawks are moving on from their number 1 pick… meanwhile the raptors…

I still can't believe they passed on Sarr.

Sarr said they better not draft him. If they liked him enough then they should have picked him anyways.

Exactly. Worst case scenario you trade him later, which is what they look like they're going to do anyway. I liked Risacher but he's not a number 1 pick. They should have traded down or gone with Reed, Castle, or maybe Clingan if they were not going with Sarr.

[Tor_Raps]

I still can't believe they passed on Sarr.

Sarr said they better not draft him. If they liked him enough then they should have picked him anyways.

Exactly. Worst case scenario you trade him later, which is what they look like they're going to do anyway. I liked Risacher but he's not a number 1 pick. They should have traded down or gone with Reed, Castle, or maybe Clingan if they were not going with Sarr.

Pretty much a Bargnani situation

[TGM]

I’m not the biggest Young fan, but one consideration for the Raps will be to compare Young versus Quick. Who is more durable? Which contract situation is better or worst. What is the cost?

I bet right now you can probably get Young for pretty much IQ and fillers. If that is the situation do Raptors go for it. Young would be a BI type of situation where you resign him not for the max but for more like 40-45 a year. I don’t see any teams in the market chasing after him, so his delta to IQ would be 5-10 million.

[JB7]

Here's an idea. Do nothing. Trade no one unless it's packaging a couple of bench wings and a pick for a modest veteran upgrade. No deal really vaults the Raptors into true contention. Certainly not adding Trae Young who makes a team worse despite his one-way talent. The Raptors won't get to a true contender with just one move, making a couple of lateral ones over the next season or two might set up the right one to get them over the top. Getting to 45-50 wins while developing young and youngish players is a good result for this season. Ochai is the only even modestly significant free agent this summer, and his role could be assumed by Walter. Ochai was acquired for an end-of-first-round pick in a weak draft, so if he walks, it's no catastrophe.

This exactly. All of these teams are putting problem players/contracts on the market. In doing a deal with any of them, the Raps would doing those teams a favor and just be taking on their problems. They got lucky with BI. Leave it at that.

[TGM]

Young’s game is quite similar to IQ. Except Trae is a way better passer and penetrator at drawing fouls. If it is something like Trae for IQ, Dick and Ochai. I would consider that deal. I see IQ’s deal more of a liability and his ceiling limited. Young has the higher upside, but there is a disruption in chemistry. However, the Raps need more offensive power. We have Shead who is almost the exact opposite of what Young brings. To me such a deal is really like -6+7.5. Doesn’t move the needle huge, but all comes down to price. Young may also need a change of scenery kind of like BI and if rejuvenated and we get the Trae Young from 5 years ago that could be huge upside. To me the cost to acquire Young is a lot lower than a LaMelo or Morant.

I’m still keen to see us then push for a Giannis or Sabonis trade.

RJ, Jak, Mogbo, 1 first and one protected first that converts to 2 2nds for Sabonis, Ellis, Carter.

Young - Shead - Carter
Ellis - Walter - Temple
Ingram - Battle
Barnes - CMB
Sabonis - Mamu - Mamba

That’s a pretty competitive starting 5.

[Boogie!]

Actually, I don't agree with the premise of needing "assets to produce right now".

More what I was getting at is that we can't really be working on forever projects anymore. 3 years in, Gradey blows donkeys, and that's not getting it done. We're clearly pivoting into a win-now mode, and he's utterly useless to us in his present form. So players of that type, we need to move on from them instead of bogging down in their development. Obviously, that doesn't mean "move them for almost literally nothing," and as you say, we still have salary control over him next season (and I think he's an expiring then if we don't extend him, right?), which might make the timing more appealing then.

But he's definitely not a guy we should extend, nor one on whom we should pin our hopes, or mark as untouchable. Or even hesitating to move.

His value right now is similar underperforming prospect or possibly expiring scrub + SRP if you find the right team willing to still give him a chance which might not even exist. Maybe you could get Cam Thomas if he would agree to waive his NTC in some sort of package with a SRP or 2. Given the reality of the situation, we're probably better off just trying to keep developing him to see if it ever clicks and then dump him as expiring next season or just let him expire if it doesn't work out.

If you can trade him for cam Thomas you do that in a heartbeat. They essentially have the same role but Thomas has proven to be infinitely better at it. Again, if teams are willing to give us their reclamation projects in exchange for dick you do that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I think the nets laugh us off. Unless they really just want to unload Thomas for whatever reason.

[Boogie!]

Young’s game is quite similar to IQ. Except Trae is a way better passer and penetrator at drawing fouls. If it is something like Trae for IQ, Dick and Ochai. I would consider that deal. I see IQ’s deal more of a liability and his ceiling limited. Young has the higher upside, but there is a disruption in chemistry. However, the Raps need more offensive power. We have Shead who is almost the exact opposite of what Young brings. To me such a deal is really like -6+7.5. Doesn’t move the needle huge, but all comes down to price. Young may also need a change of scenery kind of like BI and if rejuvenated and we get the Trae Young from 5 years ago that could be huge upside. To me the cost to acquire Young is a lot lower than a LaMelo or Morant.

I’m still keen to see us then push for a Giannis or Sabonis trade.

RJ, Jak, Mogbo, 1 first and one protected first that converts to 2 2nds for Sabonis, Ellis, Carter.

Young - Shead - Carter
Ellis - Walter - Temple
Ingram - Battle
Barnes - CMB
Sabonis - Mamu - Mamba

That’s a pretty competitive starting 5.

Trae young is a worse shooter. Everyone hates iq, I don’t see how young’s ball dominance lack of defense and overall inefficiency will work with Ingram and Barnes. Idk the obsession with Trae, he’s always been overrated to me. It’s the same with lamelo ball. These guys are fancy but their ?volume production and inefficiency does not make your team better.

[PushDaRock]

More what I was getting at is that we can't really be working on forever projects anymore. 3 years in, Gradey blows donkeys, and that's not getting it done. We're clearly pivoting into a win-now mode, and he's utterly useless to us in his present form. So players of that type, we need to move on from them instead of bogging down in their development. Obviously, that doesn't mean "move them for almost literally nothing," and as you say, we still have salary control over him next season (and I think he's an expiring then if we don't extend him, right?), which might make the timing more appealing then.

But he's definitely not a guy we should extend, nor one on whom we should pin our hopes, or mark as untouchable. Or even hesitating to move.

His value right now is similar underperforming prospect or possibly expiring scrub + SRP if you find the right team willing to still give him a chance which might not even exist. Maybe you could get Cam Thomas if he would agree to waive his NTC in some sort of package with a SRP or 2. Given the reality of the situation, we're probably better off just trying to keep developing him to see if it ever clicks and then dump him as expiring next season or just let him expire if it doesn't work out.

If you can trade him for cam Thomas you do that in a heartbeat. They essentially have the same role but Thomas has proven to be infinitely better at it. Again, if teams are willing to give us their reclamation projects in exchange for dick you do that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I think the nets laugh us off. Unless they really just want to unload Thomas for whatever reason.

Thomas has a NTC so he controls where he goes. Would he want to come off the bench here? Maybe it's a possibility, but we would need to guarantee him at least 25 maybe 30 mins. He turned down a lot more money to keep his NTC so he's going to want to control where he goes.

[ArthurVandelay]

More what I was getting at is that we can't really be working on forever projects anymore. 3 years in, Gradey blows donkeys, and that's not getting it done. We're clearly pivoting into a win-now mode, and he's utterly useless to us in his present form. So players of that type, we need to move on from them instead of bogging down in their development. Obviously, that doesn't mean "move them for almost literally nothing," and as you say, we still have salary control over him next season (and I think he's an expiring then if we don't extend him, right?), which might make the timing more appealing then.

But he's definitely not a guy we should extend, nor one on whom we should pin our hopes, or mark as untouchable. Or even hesitating to move.

His value right now is similar underperforming prospect or possibly expiring scrub + SRP if you find the right team willing to still give him a chance which might not even exist. Maybe you could get Cam Thomas if he would agree to waive his NTC in some sort of package with a SRP or 2. Given the reality of the situation, we're probably better off just trying to keep developing him to see if it ever clicks and then dump him as expiring next season or just let him expire if it doesn't work out.

If you can trade him for cam Thomas you do that in a heartbeat. They essentially have the same role but Thomas has proven to be infinitely better at it. Again, if teams are willing to give us their reclamation projects in exchange for dick you do that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I think the nets laugh us off. Unless they really just want to unload Thomas for whatever reason.

There won’t be any Bird Rights with Thomas if he’s traded. Raptors are already going to need the MLE to sign Mamu next year.

[PushDaRock]

His value right now is similar underperforming prospect or possibly expiring scrub + SRP if you find the right team willing to still give him a chance which might not even exist. Maybe you could get Cam Thomas if he would agree to waive his NTC in some sort of package with a SRP or 2. Given the reality of the situation, we're probably better off just trying to keep developing him to see if it ever clicks and then dump him as expiring next season or just let him expire if it doesn't work out.

If you can trade him for cam Thomas you do that in a heartbeat. They essentially have the same role but Thomas has proven to be infinitely better at it. Again, if teams are willing to give us their reclamation projects in exchange for dick you do that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I think the nets laugh us off. Unless they really just want to unload Thomas for whatever reason.

There won’t be any Bird Rights with Thomas if he’s traded. Raptors are already going to need the MLE to sign Mamu next year.

It's more of a rental

[Def Leppard]

Honestly, fans of the Raps need to appreciate where this team is more. They are still in the rebuilding process, have managed to build a roster with talent in the starting lineup that has it positioned currently as 4th in the East. While their starters eat up a lot of their room under the tax, they still have a roster filled out with decent players on rookie deals. They really don't have any massive albatross contracts weighing down the team. Even Yak, if he gets healthy, is not a horrible deal. Either is IQ. BI has fit in great with Barnes, and they make a great duo.

All of these proposed trades for either Trae, AD, LaMelo, Ja, Sabonis, Garland, etc. are not dramatically improving the team, and put them in a much worse salary position, as all of these players are on max deals, so it requires the Raps moving 2 players on more reasonable deals (RJ, IQ or Yak) for players eating up significantly more money, who are injury risks, and who don't significantly improve the play of the team.

These aren't the deals the Raps should be wanting to make.

He's right you know...

Sent from my SM-S901W using RealGM mobile app

[Tor_Raps]

Please go after Trae man. This team needs an elite playmaker other than Barnes. IQ is basically a slightly better Jordan Clarkson.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

If we can get him for IQ, Ochai and Dick that’s an easy decision. He’s one of the best passers (elite) in the league and IQ has been getting torched on defense anyway. Team also keeps CMB and Walter who have been part of the defensive identity that has been forming and winning us games. We can also withstand injuries to guys as we have another guy who can create. Not sure a trade like that makes sense for the Hawks though.

I just don't believe it would just take that just like I don't believe Trae is gonna be a championship calibre lead guard. There is no way this team is gonna consistently defend blow bys from Trae's man all game long.

We are already dealing with IQ getting burned with his bad man defense but even worse team defense where he overhelps and/or runs away from players attacking him. The main difference is that Trae gets posted up on frequently whereas IQ can better hold his own.

The upgrade in offensive skill is much more than the downgrade in defense.

ya but we know Trae ain't coming to Toronto

[Tor_Raps]

I just don't believe it would just take that just like I don't believe Trae is gonna be a championship calibre lead guard. There is no way this team is gonna consistently defend blow bys from Trae's man all game long.

We are already dealing with IQ getting burned with his bad man defense but even worse team defense where he overhelps and/or runs away from players attacking him. The main difference is that Trae gets posted up on frequently whereas IQ can better hold his own.

The upgrade in offensive skill is much more than the downgrade in defense.

ya but we know Trae ain't coming to Toronto

Why would you think that? He'd go wherever he has a chance at a payday similar to what Ingram did. Its already been reported the market is limited on Trae (similar to Ingram) and we're also doing well record wise.

[Los_29]

Please go after Trae man. This team needs an elite playmaker other than Barnes. IQ is basically a slightly better Jordan Clarkson.

Hawks have been trying to put players around Trae for 5 years now and all he’s done is take them to the play-in. Trae is not the answer for this team.

[Tor_Raps]

Please go after Trae man. This team needs an elite playmaker other than Barnes. IQ is basically a slightly better Jordan Clarkson.

Hawks have been trying to put players around Trae for 5 years now and all he’s done is take them to the play-in. Trae is not the answer for this team.

Difference is that we wont be building around Trae, instead WITH him. This team needs a perimeter playmaker badly to help make the offense easier for the less skilled guys. Barnes will be our best player regardless.

[Thaddy]

Please go after Trae man. This team needs an elite playmaker other than Barnes. IQ is basically a slightly better Jordan Clarkson.

Hawks have been trying to put players around Trae for 5 years now and all he’s done is take them to the play-in. Trae is not the answer for this team.

I don't know how Trae can be hidden on a contender. That usually ends up being the issue. He gets targeted and it's a disadvantage you have to go with.

[TGM]

Young’s game is quite similar to IQ. Except Trae is a way better passer and penetrator at drawing fouls. If it is something like Trae for IQ, Dick and Ochai. I would consider that deal. I see IQ’s deal more of a liability and his ceiling limited. Young has the higher upside, but there is a disruption in chemistry. However, the Raps need more offensive power. We have Shead who is almost the exact opposite of what Young brings. To me such a deal is really like -6+7.5. Doesn’t move the needle huge, but all comes down to price. Young may also need a change of scenery kind of like BI and if rejuvenated and we get the Trae Young from 5 years ago that could be huge upside. To me the cost to acquire Young is a lot lower than a LaMelo or Morant.

I’m still keen to see us then push for a Giannis or Sabonis trade.

RJ, Jak, Mogbo, 1 first and one protected first that converts to 2 2nds for Sabonis, Ellis, Carter.

Young - Shead - Carter
Ellis - Walter - Temple
Ingram - Battle
Barnes - CMB
Sabonis - Mamu - Mamba

That’s a pretty competitive starting 5.

Trae young is a worse shooter. Everyone hates iq, I don’t see how young’s ball dominance lack of defense and overall inefficiency will work with Ingram and Barnes. Idk the obsession with Trae, he’s always been overrated to me. It’s the same with lamelo ball. These guys are fancy but their ?volume production and inefficiency does not make your team better.

Boogie, not sure if you were in the Ingram hater camp, but that's what a lot of people said about BI as well. He now is the go to guy for us in clutch moments. Everyone seems to get a bit too caught up on just comparing numbers to numbers and then saying whether someone fits or not. For one Young's defense net rating is considered average over his career. However, one thing we need to consider is when you watch the Raps, our issue is not defense a lot of times. Its stale offense. Young's ability to self create and draw fouls is something we lack as a team. You also want guys that have that "it" factor. When Young is on, he is impossible to guard. He didn't fluke averaging 30 a game for a season. That's the type of star power you sometimes need. There are definitely better players than Young out there, but once again this is about moving an overpaid contract on our side for him. I'm not suggesting to pay a Giannis Heist for the guy. If the experiment doesn't work you let the guy walk. Bigger chance is that he exercises his player option and comes to his senses that the market isn't max money for him at the end. With IQ the ceiling is pretty obvious, Young has the chance to potentially raise the ceiling for us.

I was suggesting BI two years ago on this forum and got crapped on about how he wasn't a good fit. How he didn't play defense, but it was clear the Raps needed a go to scorer. When you offense is not respected it impacts the offense across all players, when you have a guy like Young and BI on the floor it changes and opens up driving lanes and easy baskets for people like RJ and Barnes.

[TGM]

[quote="Tor_Raps"]Please go after Trae man. This team needs an elite playmaker other than Barnes. IQ is basically a slightly better Jordan Clarkson.[/quote]

Can't agree more. I think people get mixed between a true play maker and a guy who is given PG duties and puts up 6-7 assists. Young is what I call a true play maker, he initiates the offense and makes passes for easy baskets for his team makes. IQ, handles the ball and picks up assists off his teammates hitting shots. In the history of the Raps, Stoudamire, TJ Ford even Calderon to some extent were our purest play makers. Not crapping on Kyle or Fred, but top passers can locate spots to shift their teammate to move in the direction to gain a slight advantage to score. Chris Paul, Lebron are guys that do that. Trae, LaMelo are guys that are pretty up their as well when it comes to passing.

Most fans will not appreciate this difference, as the eye test on numbers makes every think 7 assists are all the same. IQ averages more assists than Scottie, but Scottie's passing intelligence is superior to IQ.

[slicedbread2]

Please go after Trae man. This team needs an elite playmaker other than Barnes. IQ is basically a slightly better Jordan Clarkson.

Can't agree more. I think people get mixed between a true play maker and a guy who is given PG duties and puts up 6-7 assists. Young is what I call a true play maker, he initiates the offense and makes passes for easy baskets for his team makes. IQ, handles the ball and picks up assists off his teammates hitting shots. In the history of the Raps, Stoudamire, TJ Ford even Calderon to some extent were our purest play makers. Not crapping on Kyle or Fred, but top passers can locate spots to shift their teammate to move in the direction to gain a slight advantage to score. Chris Paul, Lebron are guys that do that. Trae, LaMelo are guys that are pretty up their as well when it comes to passing.

Most fans will not appreciate this difference, as the eye test on numbers makes every think 7 assists are all the same. IQ averages more assists than Scottie, but Scottie's passing intelligence is superior to IQ.

They need to pull the damn trigger on Trae. If they are willing to take IQ's deal, it's even better. I really wish they hadn't given that 5th year as they honestly outbid themselves. 4/90-100M would've been more plausible not to mention it would've been a far more movable deal.

Trae wouldn't solve every issue, but he'd clean up a lot of problems that have been plaguing the Raptors offense. Plus his deal ends a lot sooner. If the price is IQ, Dick and Agbaji, just do it. Jalen Johnson's emergence has made Trae expendable not to mention Dyson Daniels and NAW have been a great back court tandem.

I realize Trae has been battling injuries, but honestly it's worth a gamble. Worse case scenario it doesn't work and you move on.