PG: BENCH SLOBS SHART THE COURT

[Clutch0z24]

20-15 and 4th in the East - not that bad

Shouldn't be focused on the record because that does not tell the whole story all the time...Or where the level a team is at and their actual upside at being successfull when it matters against actual good teams....You got to take in account....We have one of the worst offensive ratings in the league, While also losing to teams like Nuggets (GLeague level team), Nets, Wizards....Took everything to go absolutly perfect to beat a mid Magic team who are missing Franz/Suggs....

We got off to a hot start but when you really break down the teams we beat...It gets dicey...

W Hawks
W Cavs (Without Mitchell/Garland/Allen)
W Grizzlies (Without Morant)
W Bucks
W Hawks (Without Trae)
W Nets
W Cavs (Struggling team)
W Pacers
W Hornets (Went to the last shot)
W 76ers (Without Embiid)
W Wizards
W Heat
W Nets
W Cavs
W Pacers (Came down to a game winner)
W Blazers
W Heat
W Bucks (No Giannis)
W Warriors
W Magic

L Bucks
L Mavs
L Spurs
L Rockets
L 76ers
L Hornets
L Knicks (Blown Out)
L Lakers
L Hornets (Blown Out)
L Knicks
L Celtics
L Celtics
L Nets Lol
L Wizards Lol
L Nuggets (Gleague Squad)

To me if you actually break it down if you want to give Raptors an applause on the season we can say we beat the Cavs every matchup (One where they were missing 3 starters) but they are also having a really bad year overall....And we beat the Heat....Other than that we have no real impressive wins on the season against an actual good team in the league so far.....We have been beating up on basement dwelling tanking teams so far outside of Magic/Cavs/Heat all 3 of them in the East are also having down years as well and been injured....

Until we look like we can hang in there with the actual top tier teams in the league (Have no evidence of it yet) And we stop losing to G-League tanking rosters we can't really bragg about our record without doing a deeper dive into things and realize the big glaring flaws we have..

I know we have missed Yak for alot of games but unless i see a healthy Yak on the court with no issues and the team is actually going head to head with the actual good teams in the NBA and looking decent in the process i will not praise the Record that much because come playoff time the Record won't mean jack **** and if we play an actual good NBA team in a 7 game series these flaws we see will be exposed and we will have no chance to win...

You really hate the Raptors lmao. Every win is fake and every loss is real.

Saying the truth and reality of whats going on does not mean i hate the Raptors....Its like a parent who lets his kids do anything they want and they can do no wrong vs a parent who actually parents their kid and teaches them right from wrong....Just because you call their **** out does not mean you don't love them....

This team is not good is what im trying to say.....We maybe good against tanking bad teams but thats to be expected but against actually good top tier teams we stand no chance....In a playoff matchup i am not confident against any team in a weak ass east....That says something about where we are at....Team mid....

Do i like being team mid? No not at all i think its the worst place to be in that is why i am calling out their ****...

I can tell which posters in here would let anyone get away with anything and have 100000 excuses for that person instead of holding them accountable for their actions....No need to give excuses to why we lost to a G-League level roster and have other horrible losses on the year or you are not striving for greatness and you are fine and okay with being a bad team....Also being one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA does not help make a case for how we will win in the playoffs when alot of playoff basketball is half court offense....We might be the worst half court offensive teams in the league or one of them...

[links135]

Still can’t believe we lost a game to a team with 4 missing starters that started JV in 2025.

Might fr be the worst L I’ve seen in the last 2 years lol.

It’s an 82 game season. Unless you’re an elite team, it happens all the time to other teams. I was chuckling when I read the beginning of the game day thread how the Raptors need to win this one because it seemed like the type of game they would lose.

What does this one game mean? Absolutely nothing. You take what you can from the entire season.

Starters are good
Bench is inconsistent and needs help
This team badly needs rotation players who can hit open shots
Need another legit big man who can play
Coaching is bad to mediocre
What development had been achieved by coaching staff?
IQ cannot run this team

Oh and this is a pretty new version with Ingram and no NBA trades have been made yet. No one was expecting this team to be some contender. This roster will be adjusted on the fly. Makes sense they’re not just jumping into trades. Pretty sure Bobby understands this is not a championship team

Only Raptor fans would PANAC after being 20-15 with nearly half that missing 2 starters.

[Clutch0z24]

We rank 21st in half court offense in the league....We are above most of the tanking teams.....We all know playoff basketball is majority half court offense execution.

Our defense is not generational like the Pistons in 04 or anything for us to be that bad in the half court offense to actually expect a good outcome in the playoffs when things crunch down and teams study you and lock in....We have one guy on the team who can give you buckets in Ingram but not much else, Lack of quality 3 point shooters, Lack of iso scorers that can break a defender down....

You guys can all love the vibes and what not but when it comes to actual playoff basketball and being a legit threat even in a weak ass east....We prolly don't stand much of a chance to make it far....If we have the right matchup we maybe squeek by the first round but lots would have to go right for even that to happen...

Trades need to be made you can't expect to develop a bunch of young guys while also trying to compete and be legit winners....Both timelines do not equal quality basketball. Pick a lane and stay in it....Bobby at the trade deadline should 100 percent make a move for someone if he is serious about winning this year....

[HiJiNX]

We rank 21st in half court offense in the league....We are above most of the tanking teams.....We all know playoff basketball is majority half court offense execution.

Our defense is not generational like the Pistons in 04 or anything for us to be that bad in the half court offense to actually expect a good outcome in the playoffs when things crunch down and teams study you and lock in....We have one guy on the team who can give you buckets in Ingram but not much else, Lack of quality 3 point shooters, Lack of iso scorers that can break a defender down....

You guys can all love the vibes and what not but when it comes to actual playoff basketball and being a legit threat even in a weak ass east....We prolly don't stand much of a chance to make it far....If we have the right matchup we maybe squeek by the first round but lots would have to go right for even that to happen...

Trades need to be made you can't expect to develop a bunch of young guys while also trying to compete and be legit winners....Both timelines do not equal quality basketball. Pick a lane and stay in it....Bobby at the trade deadline should 100 percent make a move for someone if he is serious about winning this year....

Even at our best, this team had first round exit written all over it. Anything more than that would honestly be a miracle. Missing the playoffs (or being a play-in team) would be a failure.

This team is going to make the playoffs which is where our expectations should be imo.

[Clutch0z24]

We rank 21st in half court offense in the league....We are above most of the tanking teams.....We all know playoff basketball is majority half court offense execution.

Our defense is not generational like the Pistons in 04 or anything for us to be that bad in the half court offense to actually expect a good outcome in the playoffs when things crunch down and teams study you and lock in....We have one guy on the team who can give you buckets in Ingram but not much else, Lack of quality 3 point shooters, Lack of iso scorers that can break a defender down....

You guys can all love the vibes and what not but when it comes to actual playoff basketball and being a legit threat even in a weak ass east....We prolly don't stand much of a chance to make it far....If we have the right matchup we maybe squeek by the first round but lots would have to go right for even that to happen...

Trades need to be made you can't expect to develop a bunch of young guys while also trying to compete and be legit winners....Both timelines do not equal quality basketball. Pick a lane and stay in it....Bobby at the trade deadline should 100 percent make a move for someone if he is serious about winning this year....

Even at our best, this team had first round exit written all over it. Anything more than that would honestly be a miracle. Missing the playoffs (or being a play-in team) would be a failure.

This team is going to make the playoffs which is where our expectations should be imo.

Yeah but does that truely make you or anyone actually happy? I mean is that where people genuinely want to be at....Cheer for a team that we all know in our heads will not make it far at all?....I mean if you are all power to the people who are....But for me personally that is the worst spot to be in because

-You don't have a chance to improve since we also have some horrible assets and can't make a game changing trade to catapult us as contenders since our only real assets would be Barnes for that kind of a player....And even then idk if other teams value Barnes as much as Raptors fans/Bobby does...

-You don't get a good draft pick so the chances of you getting a team changing talent via the draft is almost no chance at all and you are looking at adding more Rotation players/Projects/Players that will be out of the league soon type of guys unless you get historically lucky (Also losing faith in drafting with this front office)

So are people actually happy and excited about this projection or are they faking it to try and stay positive on here? If i had to guess lots are pretending/faking it because even during our tanking year you had mods/certain posters telling people to not talk about being excited about losing to get better odds for Flagg.....So there is absolutly a sub group of posters here who push the "Be positive no matter what even if thats not your actual feelings" agenda here....For me i can't fake being excited for a team that does not really excite me outside of a few players....I think this team is bad to mid and nothing more....Hard to fake being happy about that lol..

[Tha Cynic]

We rank 21st in half court offense in the league....We are above most of the tanking teams.....We all know playoff basketball is majority half court offense execution.

Our defense is not generational like the Pistons in 04 or anything for us to be that bad in the half court offense to actually expect a good outcome in the playoffs when things crunch down and teams study you and lock in....We have one guy on the team who can give you buckets in Ingram but not much else, Lack of quality 3 point shooters, Lack of iso scorers that can break a defender down....

You guys can all love the vibes and what not but when it comes to actual playoff basketball and being a legit threat even in a weak ass east....We prolly don't stand much of a chance to make it far....If we have the right matchup we maybe squeek by the first round but lots would have to go right for even that to happen...

Trades need to be made you can't expect to develop a bunch of young guys while also trying to compete and be legit winners....Both timelines do not equal quality basketball. Pick a lane and stay in it....Bobby at the trade deadline should 100 percent make a move for someone if he is serious about winning this year....

Even at our best, this team had first round exit written all over it. Anything more than that would honestly be a miracle. Missing the playoffs (or being a play-in team) would be a failure.

This team is going to make the playoffs which is where our expectations should be imo.

Yeah but does that truely make you or anyone actually happy? I mean is that where people genuinely want to be at....Cheer for a team that we all know in our heads will not make it far at all?....I mean if you are all power to the people who are....But for me personally that is the worst spot to be in because

-You don't have a chance to improve since we also have some horrible assets and can't make a game changing trade to catapult us as contenders since our only real assets would be Barnes for that kind of a player....And even then idk if other teams value Barnes as much as Raptors fans/Bobby does...

-You don't get a good draft pick so the chances of you getting a team changing talent via the draft is almost no chance at all and you are looking at adding more Rotation players/Projects/Players that will be out of the league soon type of guys unless you get historically lucky (Also losing faith in drafting with this front office)

So are people actually happy and excited about this projection or are they faking it to try and stay positive on here? If i had to guess lots are pretending/faking it because even during our tanking year you had mods/certain posters telling people to not talk about being excited about losing to get better odds for Flagg.....So there is absolutly a sub group of posters here who push the "Be positive no matter what even if thats not your actual feelings" agenda here...

Definitely happier than watching a team try to tank for an entire season and end up with a mediocre pick. No one is sitting here watching an entertainment product to see a team intentionally lose and rely on luck for a year let alone multiple years

I’d rather watch a team try to win and improve. Also, their drafting and development has been terrible. Why the heck would we want to tank more? Also we have seen this team build a championship the way they are currently building it. It just doesn’t happen overnight - it happens in increments

[Tha Cynic]

Here comes the “if we tank we’ll learn losing habits” argument again.

Here are some of the most aggressive tanking teams over the past 4-5 years:

OKC
DET
HOU
SAS

How come none of those teams have “losing” habits?

News flash: it’s not losing habits. It’s lack of talent.

The Raptors are 20-15. That’s a pretty big jump over last season.

What poster said is valid. For the young guys, this is the first time the team is actually trying to win and they’re the ones struggling the most.

The teams above went though growing pains too.

Sorry, I don’t buy it at all that these guys are playing bad because they are trying unlearn bad habits due to losing. Youth, sure, that plays a part.

Both Dick and Agabji were playing better last year when we were actually losing. Shead was scoring better. What losing habits do you think these guys are showing this year?

By and large a lot of these guys issues would be solved by hitting a few more wide open shots. What does that have to do with losing habits?

You’re focusing way too much on “trying to unlearn bad habits”. That’s not even what the poster said. His post is clearly that you don’t just miraculously go from a team that was a lottery team with bad habits to being a contender in a season. That’s very rare. It’s going to take some time to get better. They’re already better than last season by quite a lot.

The Pistons who are really the only comparable were 17-18 last season btw after 35 games.

[PushDaRock]

We rank 21st in half court offense in the league....We are above most of the tanking teams.....We all know playoff basketball is majority half court offense execution.

Our defense is not generational like the Pistons in 04 or anything for us to be that bad in the half court offense to actually expect a good outcome in the playoffs when things crunch down and teams study you and lock in....We have one guy on the team who can give you buckets in Ingram but not much else, Lack of quality 3 point shooters, Lack of iso scorers that can break a defender down....

You guys can all love the vibes and what not but when it comes to actual playoff basketball and being a legit threat even in a weak ass east....We prolly don't stand much of a chance to make it far....If we have the right matchup we maybe squeek by the first round but lots would have to go right for even that to happen...

Trades need to be made you can't expect to develop a bunch of young guys while also trying to compete and be legit winners....Both timelines do not equal quality basketball. Pick a lane and stay in it....Bobby at the trade deadline should 100 percent make a move for someone if he is serious about winning this year....

Even at our best, this team had first round exit written all over it. Anything more than that would honestly be a miracle. Missing the playoffs (or being a play-in team) would be a failure.

This team is going to make the playoffs which is where our expectations should be imo.

Yeah but does that truely make you or anyone actually happy? I mean is that where people genuinely want to be at....Cheer for a team that we all know in our heads will not make it far at all?....I mean if you are all power to the people who are....But for me personally that is the worst spot to be in because

-You don't have a chance to improve since we also have some horrible assets and can't make a game changing trade to catapult us as contenders since our only real assets would be Barnes for that kind of a player....And even then idk if other teams value Barnes as much as Raptors fans/Bobby does...

-You don't get a good draft pick so the chances of you getting a team changing talent via the draft is almost no chance at all and you are looking at adding more Rotation players/Projects/Players that will be out of the league soon type of guys unless you get historically lucky (Also losing faith in drafting with this front office)

So are people actually happy and excited about this projection or are they faking it to try and stay positive on here? If i had to guess lots are pretending/faking it because even during our tanking year you had mods/certain posters telling people to not talk about being excited about losing to get better odds for Flagg.....So there is absolutly a sub group of posters here who push the "Be positive no matter what even if thats not your actual feelings" agenda here....For me i can't fake being excited for a team that does not really excite me outside of a few players....I think this team is bad to mid and nothing more....Hard to fake being happy about that lol..

It would be the worst spot to be in if we were deep in luxury tax, 2nd apron territory and didn't own all of our draft picks. Since that's not the case, there's quite a bit to be encouraged about because we know this is obviously not the final product.

[Clutch0z24]

Even at our best, this team had first round exit written all over it. Anything more than that would honestly be a miracle. Missing the playoffs (or being a play-in team) would be a failure.

This team is going to make the playoffs which is where our expectations should be imo.

Yeah but does that truely make you or anyone actually happy? I mean is that where people genuinely want to be at....Cheer for a team that we all know in our heads will not make it far at all?....I mean if you are all power to the people who are....But for me personally that is the worst spot to be in because

-You don't have a chance to improve since we also have some horrible assets and can't make a game changing trade to catapult us as contenders since our only real assets would be Barnes for that kind of a player....And even then idk if other teams value Barnes as much as Raptors fans/Bobby does...

-You don't get a good draft pick so the chances of you getting a team changing talent via the draft is almost no chance at all and you are looking at adding more Rotation players/Projects/Players that will be out of the league soon type of guys unless you get historically lucky (Also losing faith in drafting with this front office)

So are people actually happy and excited about this projection or are they faking it to try and stay positive on here? If i had to guess lots are pretending/faking it because even during our tanking year you had mods/certain posters telling people to not talk about being excited about losing to get better odds for Flagg.....So there is absolutly a sub group of posters here who push the "Be positive no matter what even if thats not your actual feelings" agenda here...

Definitely happier than watching a team try to tank for an entire season and end up with a mediocre pick. No one is sitting here watching an entertainment product to see a team intentionally lose and rely on luck for a year let alone multiple years

I’d rather watch a team try to win and improve. Also, their drafting and development has been terrible. Why the heck would we want to tank more? Also we have seen this team build a championship the way they are currently building it. It just doesn’t happen overnight - it happens in increments

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....If we can even trade for a Morant type because who knows if we have players teams even value league wide...

[ArthurVandelay]

Yeah but does that truely make you or anyone actually happy? I mean is that where people genuinely want to be at....Cheer for a team that we all know in our heads will not make it far at all?....I mean if you are all power to the people who are....But for me personally that is the worst spot to be in because

-You don't have a chance to improve since we also have some horrible assets and can't make a game changing trade to catapult us as contenders since our only real assets would be Barnes for that kind of a player....And even then idk if other teams value Barnes as much as Raptors fans/Bobby does...

-You don't get a good draft pick so the chances of you getting a team changing talent via the draft is almost no chance at all and you are looking at adding more Rotation players/Projects/Players that will be out of the league soon type of guys unless you get historically lucky (Also losing faith in drafting with this front office)

So are people actually happy and excited about this projection or are they faking it to try and stay positive on here? If i had to guess lots are pretending/faking it because even during our tanking year you had mods/certain posters telling people to not talk about being excited about losing to get better odds for Flagg.....So there is absolutly a sub group of posters here who push the "Be positive no matter what even if thats not your actual feelings" agenda here...

Definitely happier than watching a team try to tank for an entire season and end up with a mediocre pick. No one is sitting here watching an entertainment product to see a team intentionally lose and rely on luck for a year let alone multiple years

I’d rather watch a team try to win and improve. Also, their drafting and development has been terrible. Why the heck would we want to tank more? Also we have seen this team build a championship the way they are currently building it. It just doesn’t happen overnight - it happens in increments

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....

We the North Raptors of 2014-2015 is the appropriate comparison, not the 2017-2018 version. The Raptors are in year 1 of trying to win. Still lots of trades and draft picks to come over the next few seasons.

[Tha Cynic]

Yeah but does that truely make you or anyone actually happy? I mean is that where people genuinely want to be at....Cheer for a team that we all know in our heads will not make it far at all?....I mean if you are all power to the people who are....But for me personally that is the worst spot to be in because

-You don't have a chance to improve since we also have some horrible assets and can't make a game changing trade to catapult us as contenders since our only real assets would be Barnes for that kind of a player....And even then idk if other teams value Barnes as much as Raptors fans/Bobby does...

-You don't get a good draft pick so the chances of you getting a team changing talent via the draft is almost no chance at all and you are looking at adding more Rotation players/Projects/Players that will be out of the league soon type of guys unless you get historically lucky (Also losing faith in drafting with this front office)

So are people actually happy and excited about this projection or are they faking it to try and stay positive on here? If i had to guess lots are pretending/faking it because even during our tanking year you had mods/certain posters telling people to not talk about being excited about losing to get better odds for Flagg.....So there is absolutly a sub group of posters here who push the "Be positive no matter what even if thats not your actual feelings" agenda here...

Definitely happier than watching a team try to tank for an entire season and end up with a mediocre pick. No one is sitting here watching an entertainment product to see a team intentionally lose and rely on luck for a year let alone multiple years

I’d rather watch a team try to win and improve. Also, their drafting and development has been terrible. Why the heck would we want to tank more? Also we have seen this team build a championship the way they are currently building it. It just doesn’t happen overnight - it happens in increments

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....If we can even trade for a Morant type because who knows if we have players teams even value league wide...

Yeah, I’m perfectly fine watching a team improve season by season than watch them try to lose because they have no other strategy.

I also lived through all those years. People were saying the same thing about that team . They made trades over the years to improve. If their drafting and development does not get better, this is all moot though. They have not done well recently here and that will be the most important aspect of a team in Toronto.

[Clutch0z24]

Definitely happier than watching a team try to tank for an entire season and end up with a mediocre pick. No one is sitting here watching an entertainment product to see a team intentionally lose and rely on luck for a year let alone multiple years

I’d rather watch a team try to win and improve. Also, their drafting and development has been terrible. Why the heck would we want to tank more? Also we have seen this team build a championship the way they are currently building it. It just doesn’t happen overnight - it happens in increments

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....

We the North Raptors of 2014-2015 is the appropriate comparison, not the 2017-2018 version. The Raptors are in year 1 of trying to win. Still lots of trades and draft picks to come over the next few seasons.

Yeah so basically these kind of posters are banking on adding players like Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV with draft picks in the late 20s, 2nd rounders or undrafted guys for us to take a proper leap?.....I mean yeah that is nice in fantasy land and could work out (Once in a lifetime) with luck and beating the odds that many times....But most the times you end up with Mogbos in these draft positions....I think that is actually a worse team building strat than either going full Tank mode or trade for all flawed stars....Again we are also rumoured to be going for AD, Ball, Sabonis types that does not mean we will get them....We been rumoured to be going after Durant/Giannis/Lillard types for years now with no deal to be made because we either don't have the assets or the said player does not want to play in Toronto...

Again i lost all confidence in Raptors drafting lately so to try and recreate what we did with the We the North era seems like an unrealistic way to try and build a winner....And most likely outcome would be us having to Tank anyways in a few years...

[Pointgod]

We rank 21st in half court offense in the league....We are above most of the tanking teams.....We all know playoff basketball is majority half court offense execution.

Our defense is not generational like the Pistons in 04 or anything for us to be that bad in the half court offense to actually expect a good outcome in the playoffs when things crunch down and teams study you and lock in....We have one guy on the team who can give you buckets in Ingram but not much else, Lack of quality 3 point shooters, Lack of iso scorers that can break a defender down....

You guys can all love the vibes and what not but when it comes to actual playoff basketball and being a legit threat even in a weak ass east....We prolly don't stand much of a chance to make it far....If we have the right matchup we maybe squeek by the first round but lots would have to go right for even that to happen...

Trades need to be made you can't expect to develop a bunch of young guys while also trying to compete and be legit winners....Both timelines do not equal quality basketball. Pick a lane and stay in it....Bobby at the trade deadline should 100 percent make a move for someone if he is serious about winning this year....

We are #5 in defensive rating which means that there’s something there with this team. Where it falls apart is the offense and I believe it’s strictly a spacing issue. We have two rotation guys shooting over 40% from 3 on extremely low volumes. Our highest 3 point volume shooter is Quickley but he did that at below league average percentages.

[PushDaRock]

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....

We the North Raptors of 2014-2015 is the appropriate comparison, not the 2017-2018 version. The Raptors are in year 1 of trying to win. Still lots of trades and draft picks to come over the next few seasons.

Yeah so basically these kind of posters are banking on adding players like Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV with draft picks in the late 20s, 2nd rounders or undrafted guys for us to take a proper leap?.....I mean yeah that is nice in fantasy land and could work out (Once in a lifetime) with luck and beating the odds that many times....But most the times you end up with Mogbos in these draft positions....I think that is actually a worse team building strat than either going full Tank mode or trade for all flawed stars....Again we are also rumoured to be going for AD, Ball, Sabonis types that does not mean we will get them....We been rumoured to be going after Durant/Giannis/Lillard types for years now with no deal to be made because we either don't have the assets or the said player does not want to play in Toronto...

Again i lost all confidence in Raptors drafting lately so to try and recreate what we did with the We the North era seems like an unrealistic way to try and build a winner....And most likely outcome would be us having to Tank anyways in a few years...

Tanking till you luck into a Superstar Talent isn't fantasy land? There isn't even one in every draft.

[Clutch0z24]

Definitely happier than watching a team try to tank for an entire season and end up with a mediocre pick. No one is sitting here watching an entertainment product to see a team intentionally lose and rely on luck for a year let alone multiple years

I’d rather watch a team try to win and improve. Also, their drafting and development has been terrible. Why the heck would we want to tank more? Also we have seen this team build a championship the way they are currently building it. It just doesn’t happen overnight - it happens in increments

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....If we can even trade for a Morant type because who knows if we have players teams even value league wide...

Yeah, I’m perfectly fine watching a team improve season by season than watch them try to lose because they have no other strategy.

I also lived through all those years. People were saying the same thing about that team . They made trades over the years to improve. If their drafting and development does not get better, this is all moot though. They have not done well recently here and that will be the most important aspect of a team in Toronto.

Um no the We the North Raptors also had a better overall team with a on court product that fit together much better with players that actually could win together....Lowry/DD as a duo also had a better upside than Barnes/Ingram imo.....Lowry was legit one of the better PGs in the league during his prime with us and DeRozan with some flaws was always consistantly a go to guy....We also had proper bigs with JV as a development legit 7 footer, While also having alot of good young prospects like Powell/FVV/Siakam/Yak/OG/Wright/Tross to root for....We had a mix of everything during that We the North run.....We had the upper tier guys who were not old and also still developing while also having a group of young guys who were all legit great to root for and better talents...

This team is not really in that same mode as i see more bad than good....There are like 3-4 guys on the team to root for and the rest look like either bad prospects or bad contracts that don't look to be getting better anytime soon...That is kind of not the same thing here...

[ArthurVandelay]

So basically you are telling me you are happy and perfectly okay with being a meh mid or bad team.....Because again this is not the We the North Raptors so to try and compare that team to this one is an actual joke in itself...

The We the North Raptors had multiple hits in the draft where they got extremely lucky outcomes with not the best draft positions....That does not happen majority of the time and you actually end up with meh to bad prospects with lower draft position than what we had in We the north era.

We the North Raptors used one of their all star players in DeRozan to get a once in a lifetime trade that will never happen again btw in Kawhi (A top 5 player in the league) And we still had enough to compete because we had deep team with mutliple great young prospects who were on the rise...

This team has a bunch of young guys more on the meh or on the decline rather than the up and up.....So if we were to make an all in move like the Kawhi move we would have to give up Barnes....And where would that exactly leave us with not much depth? We would be the next Bucks congrats....


I mean yeah its funner to win games that is true....But when you look at the roster we constructed its hard to cheer for a mid team with bad contracts, not much young prospects that look to be on the up and up, And no real way to improve on things unless you trade for "Flawed stars" like Morant and pray it works out for the better....

We the North Raptors of 2014-2015 is the appropriate comparison, not the 2017-2018 version. The Raptors are in year 1 of trying to win. Still lots of trades and draft picks to come over the next few seasons.

Yeah so basically these kind of posters are banking on adding players like Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV with draft picks in the late 20s, 2nd rounders or undrafted guys for us to take a proper leap?.....I mean yeah that is nice in fantasy land and could work out (Once in a lifetime) with luck and beating the odds that many times....But most the times you end up with Mogbos in these draft positions....I think that is actually a worse team building strat than either going full Tank mode or trade for all flawed stars....Again we are also rumoured to be going for AD, Ball, Sabonis types that does not mean we will get them....We been rumoured to be going after Durant/Giannis/Lillard types for years now with no deal to be made because we either don't have the assets or the said player does not want to play in Toronto...

Again i lost all confidence in Raptors drafting lately so to try and recreate what we did with the We the North era seems like an unrealistic way to try and build a winner....And most likely outcome would be us having to Tank anyways in a few years...

Can’t get too high or too low. I feel you’re too low, respectfully. There is a lot wrong with the team but they’ve done some good things too. BI was a great trade for what they gave up. CMB is an impactful player. It’s not all doom. I don’t know what trades will be made, draft positioning, or who will be drafted but Im not assuming every move will all be hits or misses. Raptors had hits and misses from 2014 to 2018.

[Clutch0z24]

We the North Raptors of 2014-2015 is the appropriate comparison, not the 2017-2018 version. The Raptors are in year 1 of trying to win. Still lots of trades and draft picks to come over the next few seasons.

Yeah so basically these kind of posters are banking on adding players like Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV with draft picks in the late 20s, 2nd rounders or undrafted guys for us to take a proper leap?.....I mean yeah that is nice in fantasy land and could work out (Once in a lifetime) with luck and beating the odds that many times....But most the times you end up with Mogbos in these draft positions....I think that is actually a worse team building strat than either going full Tank mode or trade for all flawed stars....Again we are also rumoured to be going for AD, Ball, Sabonis types that does not mean we will get them....We been rumoured to be going after Durant/Giannis/Lillard types for years now with no deal to be made because we either don't have the assets or the said player does not want to play in Toronto...

Again i lost all confidence in Raptors drafting lately so to try and recreate what we did with the We the North era seems like an unrealistic way to try and build a winner....And most likely outcome would be us having to Tank anyways in a few years...

Tanking till you luck into a Superstar Talent isn't fantasy land? There isn't even one in every draft.

Never said that....I think you need multiple top picks to become a good team in the NBA unless you do luck into a Franchise superstar talent....

Me personally i think the better strat to gaining a legit winning product is playing the draft for multiple years with actually going for the highest pick possible since it takes more than just one talent to win...

ill point out the bright spots on our current roster (Ingram/Barnes/CMB) All come from top end draft picks.....Now does that mean you will get the best outcome always ....No but its a better strat imo than trying to build a team in the middle drafting in the 20s and pray you get steals like we did with Powell/Siakams of the world in the 20s...

For example if we played the 2025 draft a little better and got better odds you get a guy like Harper/Flagg/Edgecombe/Kon to pair with Barnes and then lets say you do that again and don't trade for Ingram and you keep that Pacers pick + your own pick in 2026 and draft one of Boozer/AJ/Peterson...

Now you have a core of One of Harper/Flagg/Edgecombe/Kon along with Barnes + One of the good kids in 2026 draft...

Now you have something to build around and have a much higher ceiling of a team imo than what we have atm....I never said it takes one draft either i think it takes multiple hits like the Warriors got with Curry/Klay & OKC did with Chet/Williams....

But also if you do not trust our drafting than this is all pointless and we will not amount to nothing in the end anyways...But yes its sheer odds and percentages that the higher you draft the better the player outcome and i feel the Raptors best chance at building a true winning team is through the draft than any other way because i also think trading for stars is harder now days than it was before....And im talking about real stars like the Kawhis of the world because these guys in recent years hand pick where they wanna go...

[PushDaRock]

Yeah so basically these kind of posters are banking on adding players like Siakam/OG/Powell/FVV with draft picks in the late 20s, 2nd rounders or undrafted guys for us to take a proper leap?.....I mean yeah that is nice in fantasy land and could work out (Once in a lifetime) with luck and beating the odds that many times....But most the times you end up with Mogbos in these draft positions....I think that is actually a worse team building strat than either going full Tank mode or trade for all flawed stars....Again we are also rumoured to be going for AD, Ball, Sabonis types that does not mean we will get them....We been rumoured to be going after Durant/Giannis/Lillard types for years now with no deal to be made because we either don't have the assets or the said player does not want to play in Toronto...

Again i lost all confidence in Raptors drafting lately so to try and recreate what we did with the We the North era seems like an unrealistic way to try and build a winner....And most likely outcome would be us having to Tank anyways in a few years...

Tanking till you luck into a Superstar Talent isn't fantasy land? There isn't even one in every draft.

Never said that....I think you need multiple top picks to become a good team in the NBA unless you do luck into a Franchise superstar talent....

Me personally i think the better strat to gaining a legit winning product is playing the draft for multiple years with actually going for the highest pick possible since it takes more than just one talent to win...

ill point out the bright spots on our current roster (Ingram/Barnes/CMB) All come from top end draft picks.....Now does that mean you will get the best outcome always ....No but its a better strat imo than trying to build a team in the middle drafting in the 20s and pray you get steals like we did with Powell/Siakams of the world in the 20s...

For example if we played the 2025 draft a little better and got better odds you get a guy like Harper/Flagg/Edgecombe/Kon to pair with Barnes and then lets say you do that again and don't trade for Ingram and you keep that Pacers pick + your own pick in 2026 and draft one of Boozer/AJ/Peterson...

Now you have a core of One of Harper/Flagg/Edgecombe/Kon along with Barnes + One of the good kids in 2026 draft...

Now you have something to build around and have a much higher ceiling of a team imo than what we have atm....I never said it takes one draft either i think it takes multiple hits like the Warriors got with Curry/Klay & OKC did with Chet/Williams....

But also if you do not trust our drafting than this is all pointless and we will not amount to nothing in the end anyways...But yes its sheer odds and percentages that the higher you draft the better the player outcome and i feel the Raptors best chance at building a true winning team is through the draft than any other way because i also think trading for stars is harder now days than it was before....And im talking about real stars like the Kawhis of the world because these guys in recent years hand pick where they wanna go...

Yeah, you're living in fantasy land if you expect to pick top 4 multiple years. Even if you finish worst in the league, you still pick out of the top 4 about half the time.

[Tripod]

Hornets must be a juggernaut with Kon, Miller, Salaun AND Ball.

[Clutch0z24]

Tanking till you luck into a Superstar Talent isn't fantasy land? There isn't even one in every draft.

Never said that....I think you need multiple top picks to become a good team in the NBA unless you do luck into a Franchise superstar talent....

Me personally i think the better strat to gaining a legit winning product is playing the draft for multiple years with actually going for the highest pick possible since it takes more than just one talent to win...

ill point out the bright spots on our current roster (Ingram/Barnes/CMB) All come from top end draft picks.....Now does that mean you will get the best outcome always ....No but its a better strat imo than trying to build a team in the middle drafting in the 20s and pray you get steals like we did with Powell/Siakams of the world in the 20s...

For example if we played the 2025 draft a little better and got better odds you get a guy like Harper/Flagg/Edgecombe/Kon to pair with Barnes and then lets say you do that again and don't trade for Ingram and you keep that Pacers pick + your own pick in 2026 and draft one of Boozer/AJ/Peterson...

Now you have a core of One of Harper/Flagg/Edgecombe/Kon along with Barnes + One of the good kids in 2026 draft...

Now you have something to build around and have a much higher ceiling of a team imo than what we have atm....I never said it takes one draft either i think it takes multiple hits like the Warriors got with Curry/Klay & OKC did with Chet/Williams....

But also if you do not trust our drafting than this is all pointless and we will not amount to nothing in the end anyways...But yes its sheer odds and percentages that the higher you draft the better the player outcome and i feel the Raptors best chance at building a true winning team is through the draft than any other way because i also think trading for stars is harder now days than it was before....And im talking about real stars like the Kawhis of the world because these guys in recent years hand pick where they wanna go...

Yeah, you're living in fantasy land if you expect to pick top 4 multiple years. Even if you finish worst in the league, you still pick out of the top 4 about half the time.

Never said top 4 either you are putting words in my mouth here....I said you GO for the best odds possible because the higher your odds are the chances of you falling to lets say 9-10-11-12 is alot less possible the higher your odds are to begin with....And yes it is a lottery at the end of the day so you have a good enough chance to draft top 4 as every other team in the lottery does but the higher you are again the odds are better for you....

You can also find these high level talents outside of the top 4....Like i said the higher you pick better the outcome....So even getting 6th for example you can find higher level talents than you would in the 20s 2nd rounder.....Thats why CMB/Barnes look like the only young players with upside on our team because they were high picked prospect....are they franchise players no....But they are better than what we would have had if we picked in the 20s them years....I think building up an asset based with players on that level while also giving yourself the Chance to get a legit game changing talent with a top pick if you get lucky is a better strat than what we are currently trying to do...

The strat we are currently trying to do i would say involves more luck than the way i am presenting to being a good team because i also think the better the talent you have the better the team you have and odds are you get better talent with higher picks...Now if you tell me we will draft 3 or 4 studs with 2nd rounders and picks in the 20s over the next 2 years who have all star or all nba potential i will be fine with that but odds are not in favor...