Shams: Raps one of teams to pursue Anthony Davis

[TGM]

The one thing that annoys me about all the people that advocate for playing the middle.....Any player that is on the market "Sucks and we should not trade for"....Ball, No he sucks and is stupid don't want, Morant he sucks and is no good, AD too old and sucks, Sabonis sucks and bad....

I mean these are the reality of trades and players that you are most likely trading for when you have the limited assets like we have accumulated over the years....If you want to compete these are the type of players, Flawed stars you are trading for...

You can't be cheering for team mid while also not wanting to trade anyone and continue to build on two timelines, The Young rebuild timeline + the win now timeline....You have to pick a lane because trying to do both will end up in a bad result....

Playing the middle....Chances of you trading for a legit first option franchise player is most likely not happening so you can not be that picky....

And thats even if we have assets these teams even like....Being rumoured to these players means NOTHING in actual trade talks because these teams might hate what we have to offer...

Agree we shouldn’t be playing for the middle. Given that we have Scottie we aren’t going to tear it down and rebuild so it makes the whole direction pretty easy. The issue with most fans is people want top 10 players at top 30 value. Just doesn’t happen cause top 10 players rarely come on the market.

The Raps are not in a horrible situation, but also not in the best like a SA or OKC. Let me lay out realistic options on how they compete.

1. Push the chips in and mortgage the next 5-6 years on someone like Giannis. You pretty much hope Barnes, Giannis and Ingram along with some role players can win you a chip. It’s a strong team, but not sure if we are top 4 in the league. I would probably do it.

2. You trade for reclamation projects that are undervalued due to their team taking a different direction. Reclamation projects come in two groups, guys buried in depth and stars that are on teams just not looking to compete and need to fire sale. Sabonis, Ja, Sharpe, White, Monk, Kyrie, Gafford are some players that fall in that group. Just think when th Bulls dealt Markanen to the Jazz or when the Cavs dealt Sexton. These are quality players at fractional prices.

3. Value snipe as a 3rd team in big trades. Nets, OKC and Jazz are absolutely rapists when it comes to this. They always find a way to absorb large salaries that are partially reclamation projects with potential while gaining draft capital. They usually do it by cycling expiring contracts in return or provide cap space absorption.

4. Roll the dice on high risk high reward stars. Davis, Young, LaMelo. These are guys that come at a 50% discount because of injury, contract demands, etc… I personally feel this group you stay away unless it is 30 cents on the dollar.


Option 1 gives you the most certainty but if it fails you set the team back several years and will need to be ready for a full rebuild. It is a more sensible strategy for free agent attractive markets as even though they gift up assets they can always pick back up tier 1 players at no cost. Miami, GS, LA, NY are teams that fall in that category.

Option 2 is really what makes the most sense for the Raptors. Get a guy like Sabonis who won’t cost a kings ransom. You are a competitive playoff team. You bam on improvement across your roster and keep liquid enough to still pull off an option 1 move when ready.

Option 3 is another one, but it would need to be something where Giannis is going to NY and they need to move someone like Towns but the Bucks not wanting Towns and prefer pics and younger players back.

Option 4 is just not the type of deal we can risk unless the price is absolutely low. If it means giving up a few of our larger contracts, IQ, Jak and 1 first rounder and a bench player like Dick sure, but anything that needs two starters, 2 first a CMB and Dick should be avoided. Such a trade can absolutely blow up and the team is caught in limbo and out of assets to make a meaningful move going forward.

[Clutch0z24]

The one thing that annoys me about all the people that advocate for playing the middle.....Any player that is on the market "Sucks and we should not trade for"....Ball, No he sucks and is stupid don't want, Morant he sucks and is no good, AD too old and sucks, Sabonis sucks and bad....

I mean these are the reality of trades and players that you are most likely trading for when you have the limited assets like we have accumulated over the years....If you want to compete these are the type of players, Flawed stars you are trading for...

You can't be cheering for team mid while also not wanting to trade anyone and continue to build on two timelines, The Young rebuild timeline + the win now timeline....You have to pick a lane because trying to do both will end up in a bad result....

Playing the middle....Chances of you trading for a legit first option franchise player is most likely not happening so you can not be that picky....

And thats even if we have assets these teams even like....Being rumoured to these players means NOTHING in actual trade talks because these teams might hate what we have to offer...

Agree we shouldn’t be playing for the middle. Given that we have Scottie we aren’t going to tear it down and rebuild so it makes the whole direction pretty easy. The issue with most fans is people want top 10 players at top 30 value. Just doesn’t happen cause top 10 players rarely come on the market.

The Raps are not in a horrible situation, but also not in the best like a SA or OKC. Let me lay out realistic options on how they compete.

1. Push the chips in and mortgage the next 5-6 years on someone like Giannis. You pretty much hope Barnes, Giannis and Ingram along with some role players can win you a chip. It’s a strong team, but not sure if we are top 4 in the league. I would probably do it.

2. You trade for reclamation projects that are undervalued due to their team taking a different direction. Reclamation projects come in two groups, guys buried in depth and stars that are on teams just not looking to compete and need to fire sale. Sabonis, Ja, Sharpe, White, Monk, Kyrie, Gafford are some players that fall in that group. Just think when th Bulls dealt Markanen to the Jazz or when the Cavs dealt Sexton. These are quality players at fractional prices.

3. Value snipe as a 3rd team in big trades. Nets, OKC and Jazz are absolutely rapists when it comes to this. They always find a way to absorb large salaries that are partially reclamation projects with potential while gaining draft capital. They usually do it by cycling expiring contracts in return or provide cap space absorption.

4. Roll the dice on high risk high reward stars. Davis, Young, LaMelo. These are guys that come at a 50% discount because of injury, contract demands, etc… I personally feel this group you stay away unless it is 30 cents on the dollar.


Option 1 gives you the most certainty but if it fails you set the team back several years and will need to be ready for a full rebuild. It is a more sensible strategy for free agent attractive markets as even though they gift up assets they can always pick back up tier 1 players at no cost. Miami, GS, LA, NY are teams that fall in that category.

Option 2 is really what makes the most sense for the Raptors. Get a guy like Sabonis who won’t cost a kings ransom. You are a competitive playoff team. You bam on improvement across your roster and keep liquid enough to still pull off an option 1 move when ready.

Option 3 is another one, but it would need to be something where Giannis is going to NY and they need to move someone like Towns but the Bucks not wanting Towns and prefer pics and younger players back.

Option 4 is just not the type of deal we can risk unless the price is absolutely low. If it means giving up a few of our larger contracts, IQ, Jak and 1 first rounder and a bench player like Dick sure, but anything that needs two starters, 2 first a CMB and Dick should be avoided. Such a trade can absolutely blow up and the team is caught in limbo and out of assets to make a meaningful move going forward.

Yep i think Raptor fans tend to say every player that is on the trade market sucks.....Donovan Mitchell when he was on the market "Sucked and shot chucker" , KD "Sucks and old can't lead a team", All these guys on the market now no one likes....

Giannis would obviously be the one guy who could actually make us legit contenders but the only way he comes here is if he hand picks us as the destination he wants to come to because we would not have the assets to win in a trade for him anyways....Rockets/Spurs/Okc easily outbid us....Prolly other teams could as well we lack alot of enticing assets outside of Barnes for that kind of a player....

I think Raptors fans want to play the "Lets compete" but think every player thats not on the Raptors suck.....Or in Raptors fans minds the only way we make a trade is for Giannis, Shai, Doncic, Kawhi, Jokic anything outside of that they all suck....That is so far from reality with what we could even get in a trade because we lack the attractive assets to even trade for these kind of players to begin with....Let alone them even being available....

Chances are if a trade is made for a player it will be for one of these flawed guys Morant/Ball/Sabonis/AD/Trae type of players....Idek if we have the assets to get that trade done....We will see how it goes though...

[Indeed]

how do you view this team/roster? do you view them as assets?

if so then AD will probably have more value than yak/iq in terms of trade value in the next 2 years.

Indeed if this is a straight up trade without involving picks.
However, I think Dallas is looking for picks and expiring, which is why we want to check the price of Sabonis to lower the price of Davis. Not that we are interested in Sabonis, but we can leverage it for Dallas to know the reality.

[AreBe]

This would be catastrophic. They would ask for a pick and swap at minimum along with some young guys, which we are in no position to give up. AD is rarely healthy, would not be motivated to play through pain for a team in a cold weather city in Canada, and would likely be out for the next 2 years and demand a trade in the 3rd when he's 36 and an expiring contract. On top of that, this team is nowhere near a contender and with one or two injuries will be a lottery team even with Davis. This would end up with Bobby fired in by the end of next season and a new GM coming in to trade Barnes and everybody else for another rebuild.

Leave it alone. Stay the course, keep your picks, trade for young players with potential only.

Exactly.

When in the history of Toronto sports has trading kids and picks for geezers gone well?
It's a Leafs thing to do. It's a Clippers thing to do- therefore, DO NOT DO IT! Keep kids and picks!

[MEDIC]

This would be catastrophic. They would ask for a pick and swap at minimum along with some young guys, which we are in no position to give up. AD is rarely healthy, would not be motivated to play through pain for a team in a cold weather city in Canada, and would likely be out for the next 2 years and demand a trade in the 3rd when he's 36 and an expiring contract. On top of that, this team is nowhere near a contender and with one or two injuries will be a lottery team even with Davis. This would end up with Bobby fired in by the end of next season and a new GM coming in to trade Barnes and everybody else for another rebuild.

Leave it alone. Stay the course, keep your picks, trade for young players with potential only.

Exactly.

When in the history of Toronto sports has trading kids and picks for geezers gone well?
It's a Leafs thing to do. It's a Clippers thing to do- therefore, DO NOT DO IT! Keep kids and picks!

Yeah. Seems like a Hakeem/ Eric Lindros type move.

The only reason to do this trade is to get off some long term contracts (if that's what you want to do as a GM) & generate interest.

[MEDIC]

Lamelo is talented and what i call a lifestyle baller. Meaning hes not in it to win it. Hes there to play the game have fun and go home in his bugatti to all dem farmer tools..

I like that term. I might have to steal it from you.

I see players at all levels with this attitide towards basketball.......and it seems to be unique to the sport of basketball. Guys that are playing as individuals.......as if basketball isn't a team sport. Just showing off and getting empty stats.......not really interested in learning the game or the team aspect of basketball (how to win as a team)

The NBA marketing geniuses created this problem. So did shoe deals, etc. You wouldn't see this in Euroleague or the NHL.

The NBA has put a stain on an otherwise amazing team sport.

The best time to watch the best athletes play basketball in its purest form is the Olympics.

[sidsid]

This would be catastrophic. They would ask for a pick and swap at minimum along with some young guys, which we are in no position to give up. AD is rarely healthy, would not be motivated to play through pain for a team in a cold weather city in Canada, and would likely be out for the next 2 years and demand a trade in the 3rd when he's 36 and an expiring contract. On top of that, this team is nowhere near a contender and with one or two injuries will be a lottery team even with Davis. This would end up with Bobby fired in by the end of next season and a new GM coming in to trade Barnes and everybody else for another rebuild.

Leave it alone. Stay the course, keep your picks, trade for young players with potential only.

Exactly.

When in the history of Toronto sports has trading kids and picks for geezers gone well?
It's a Leafs thing to do. It's a Clippers thing to do- therefore, DO NOT DO IT! Keep kids and picks!

Yeah. Seems like a Hakeem/ Eric Lindros type move.

The only reason to do this trade is to get off some long term contracts (if that's what you want to do as a GM) & generate interest.

As others' have mentioned, this can be a low-key cap cleaner of a deal.

Many variations with Jak being the important huge long term deal to move. Including one or both of IQ and RJ if they value them. They've got some old guy contracts with value to move in Klay/Martin/Russel which we can take on. Gradey and/or Jakobe if they care (no CMB) with this year's unprotected plus the swap next year. The Mavs banking on AD being injured to get those picks to turn out.

They want more expirings, but I'm having a hard time seeing which team is throwing itself into the second apron for him.

Then we have next year to possibly recoup some assets on him in a trade and we've unloaded Jak's deal at a minimum, and possibly IQs.

[TimeForChange]

Read on Twitter

It's going to be a 3 or 4 team trade. I could see the Hawks/Mavs/OKC/Toronto as the 4 teams.

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

It's going to be a 3 or 4 team trade. I could see the Hawks/Mavs/OKC/Toronto as the 4 teams.

OKC controlling Mavs 2028 1st is an interesting wrinkle

2028 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2028 1st round pick for Dallas' 2028 1st round pick [Dallas-Oklahoma City, 2/8/2024]

[Godaddycurse]

Read on Twitter

It's going to be a 3 or 4 team trade. I could see the Hawks/Mavs/OKC/Toronto as the 4 teams.

OKC controlling Mavs 2028 1st is an interesting wrinkle

2028 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2028 1st round pick for Dallas' 2028 1st round pick [Dallas-Oklahoma City, 2/8/2024]

Charlotte controls 2027 dallas 1st. if anything they would be involved before OKC

[ArthurVandelay]

Read on Twitter

It's going to be a 3 or 4 team trade. I could see the Hawks/Mavs/OKC/Toronto as the 4 teams.

OKC controlling Mavs 2028 1st is an interesting wrinkle

2028 first round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2028 1st round pick for Dallas' 2028 1st round pick [Dallas-Oklahoma City, 2/8/2024]

Charlotte controls 2027 dallas 1st. if anything they would be involved before OKC

Imo Charlotte is holding that pick as tightly as Atlanta holding better of Pelicans/Bucks.

[TheRaptor!]

The one thing that annoys me about all the people that advocate for playing the middle.....Any player that is on the market "Sucks and we should not trade for"....Ball, No he sucks and is stupid don't want, Morant he sucks and is no good, AD too old and sucks, Sabonis sucks and bad....

I mean these are the reality of trades and players that you are most likely trading for when you have the limited assets like we have accumulated over the years....If you want to compete these are the type of players, Flawed stars you are trading for...

You can't be cheering for team mid while also not wanting to trade anyone and continue to build on two timelines, The Young rebuild timeline + the win now timeline....You have to pick a lane because trying to do both will end up in a bad result....

Playing the middle....Chances of you trading for a legit first option franchise player is most likely not happening so you can not be that picky....

And thats even if we have assets these teams even like....Being rumoured to these players means NOTHING in actual trade talks because these teams might hate what we have to offer...

Agree we shouldn’t be playing for the middle. Given that we have Scottie we aren’t going to tear it down and rebuild so it makes the whole direction pretty easy. The issue with most fans is people want top 10 players at top 30 value. Just doesn’t happen cause top 10 players rarely come on the market.

The Raps are not in a horrible situation, but also not in the best like a SA or OKC. Let me lay out realistic options on how they compete.

1. Push the chips in and mortgage the next 5-6 years on someone like Giannis. You pretty much hope Barnes, Giannis and Ingram along with some role players can win you a chip. It’s a strong team, but not sure if we are top 4 in the league. I would probably do it.

2. You trade for reclamation projects that are undervalued due to their team taking a different direction. Reclamation projects come in two groups, guys buried in depth and stars that are on teams just not looking to compete and need to fire sale. Sabonis, Ja, Sharpe, White, Monk, Kyrie, Gafford are some players that fall in that group. Just think when th Bulls dealt Markanen to the Jazz or when the Cavs dealt Sexton. These are quality players at fractional prices.

3. Value snipe as a 3rd team in big trades. Nets, OKC and Jazz are absolutely rapists when it comes to this. They always find a way to absorb large salaries that are partially reclamation projects with potential while gaining draft capital. They usually do it by cycling expiring contracts in return or provide cap space absorption.

4. Roll the dice on high risk high reward stars. Davis, Young, LaMelo. These are guys that come at a 50% discount because of injury, contract demands, etc… I personally feel this group you stay away unless it is 30 cents on the dollar.


Option 1 gives you the most certainty but if it fails you set the team back several years and will need to be ready for a full rebuild. It is a more sensible strategy for free agent attractive markets as even though they gift up assets they can always pick back up tier 1 players at no cost. Miami, GS, LA, NY are teams that fall in that category.

Option 2 is really what makes the most sense for the Raptors. Get a guy like Sabonis who won’t cost a kings ransom. You are a competitive playoff team. You bam on improvement across your roster and keep liquid enough to still pull off an option 1 move when ready.

Option 3 is another one, but it would need to be something where Giannis is going to NY and they need to move someone like Towns but the Bucks not wanting Towns and prefer pics and younger players back.

Option 4 is just not the type of deal we can risk unless the price is absolutely low. If it means giving up a few of our larger contracts, IQ, Jak and 1 first rounder and a bench player like Dick sure, but anything that needs two starters, 2 first a CMB and Dick should be avoided. Such a trade can absolutely blow up and the team is caught in limbo and out of assets to make a meaningful move going forward.

Yep i think Raptor fans tend to say every player that is on the trade market sucks.....Donovan Mitchell when he was on the market "Sucked and shot chucker" , KD "Sucks and old can't lead a team", All these guys on the market now no one likes....

Giannis would obviously be the one guy who could actually make us legit contenders but the only way he comes here is if he hand picks us as the destination he wants to come to because we would not have the assets to win in a trade for him anyways....Rockets/Spurs/Okc easily outbid us....Prolly other teams could as well we lack alot of enticing assets outside of Barnes for that kind of a player....

I think Raptors fans want to play the "Lets compete" but think every player thats not on the Raptors suck.....Or in Raptors fans minds the only way we make a trade is for Giannis, Shai, Doncic, Kawhi, Jokic anything outside of that they all suck....That is so far from reality with what we could even get in a trade because we lack the attractive assets to even trade for these kind of players to begin with....Let alone them even being available....

Chances are if a trade is made for a player it will be for one of these flawed guys Morant/Ball/Sabonis/AD/Trae type of players....Idek if we have the assets to get that trade done....We will see how it goes though...

I remember that!!

What a huge joke that was, a top SG was some how a bad player haha

[RoteSchroder]

Agree we shouldn’t be playing for the middle. Given that we have Scottie we aren’t going to tear it down and rebuild so it makes the whole direction pretty easy. The issue with most fans is people want top 10 players at top 30 value. Just doesn’t happen cause top 10 players rarely come on the market.

The Raps are not in a horrible situation, but also not in the best like a SA or OKC. Let me lay out realistic options on how they compete.

1. Push the chips in and mortgage the next 5-6 years on someone like Giannis. You pretty much hope Barnes, Giannis and Ingram along with some role players can win you a chip. It’s a strong team, but not sure if we are top 4 in the league. I would probably do it.

2. You trade for reclamation projects that are undervalued due to their team taking a different direction. Reclamation projects come in two groups, guys buried in depth and stars that are on teams just not looking to compete and need to fire sale. Sabonis, Ja, Sharpe, White, Monk, Kyrie, Gafford are some players that fall in that group. Just think when th Bulls dealt Markanen to the Jazz or when the Cavs dealt Sexton. These are quality players at fractional prices.

3. Value snipe as a 3rd team in big trades. Nets, OKC and Jazz are absolutely rapists when it comes to this. They always find a way to absorb large salaries that are partially reclamation projects with potential while gaining draft capital. They usually do it by cycling expiring contracts in return or provide cap space absorption.

4. Roll the dice on high risk high reward stars. Davis, Young, LaMelo. These are guys that come at a 50% discount because of injury, contract demands, etc… I personally feel this group you stay away unless it is 30 cents on the dollar.


Option 1 gives you the most certainty but if it fails you set the team back several years and will need to be ready for a full rebuild. It is a more sensible strategy for free agent attractive markets as even though they gift up assets they can always pick back up tier 1 players at no cost. Miami, GS, LA, NY are teams that fall in that category.

Option 2 is really what makes the most sense for the Raptors. Get a guy like Sabonis who won’t cost a kings ransom. You are a competitive playoff team. You bam on improvement across your roster and keep liquid enough to still pull off an option 1 move when ready.

Option 3 is another one, but it would need to be something where Giannis is going to NY and they need to move someone like Towns but the Bucks not wanting Towns and prefer pics and younger players back.

Option 4 is just not the type of deal we can risk unless the price is absolutely low. If it means giving up a few of our larger contracts, IQ, Jak and 1 first rounder and a bench player like Dick sure, but anything that needs two starters, 2 first a CMB and Dick should be avoided. Such a trade can absolutely blow up and the team is caught in limbo and out of assets to make a meaningful move going forward.

Yep i think Raptor fans tend to say every player that is on the trade market sucks.....Donovan Mitchell when he was on the market "Sucked and shot chucker" , KD "Sucks and old can't lead a team", All these guys on the market now no one likes....

Giannis would obviously be the one guy who could actually make us legit contenders but the only way he comes here is if he hand picks us as the destination he wants to come to because we would not have the assets to win in a trade for him anyways....Rockets/Spurs/Okc easily outbid us....Prolly other teams could as well we lack alot of enticing assets outside of Barnes for that kind of a player....

I think Raptors fans want to play the "Lets compete" but think every player thats not on the Raptors suck.....Or in Raptors fans minds the only way we make a trade is for Giannis, Shai, Doncic, Kawhi, Jokic anything outside of that they all suck....That is so far from reality with what we could even get in a trade because we lack the attractive assets to even trade for these kind of players to begin with....Let alone them even being available....

Chances are if a trade is made for a player it will be for one of these flawed guys Morant/Ball/Sabonis/AD/Trae type of players....Idek if we have the assets to get that trade done....We will see how it goes though...

I remember that!!

What a huge joke that was, a top SG was some how a bad player haha

Donovan was expensive. Markkanen is a comparable player in value right now. The trade took Markkanen, Ochai, Sexton, three 1sts and two 1st round swaps. He's currently making 46 M, is a weak defender and has led his team to the 1st and 2nd round in the last three years (underachieving based on their roster). They currently have a similar record as us while being deprived of picks. Would you take Cleveland's situation over ours right now? Their team salary is $231,130,835 without pick control until 2030...ours is $188,430,978.

Durant is 37. There is a 1-2 year window to compete with him and our team (minus the two starters we would trade for Durant) isn't ready, nor does it have a lot of assets to make a follow up trade for more help. So what would be the point of giving up assets for KD? Trading long-term rotation players and picks for two years of 1st round exits sounds pretty dumb.

Last year, Houston ended up 2nd in the WC, 4th overall. This year thus far, they're 4th in the WC and 6th overall.

[TGM]

Yep i think Raptor fans tend to say every player that is on the trade market sucks.....Donovan Mitchell when he was on the market "Sucked and shot chucker" , KD "Sucks and old can't lead a team", All these guys on the market now no one likes....

Giannis would obviously be the one guy who could actually make us legit contenders but the only way he comes here is if he hand picks us as the destination he wants to come to because we would not have the assets to win in a trade for him anyways....Rockets/Spurs/Okc easily outbid us....Prolly other teams could as well we lack alot of enticing assets outside of Barnes for that kind of a player....

I think Raptors fans want to play the "Lets compete" but think every player thats not on the Raptors suck.....Or in Raptors fans minds the only way we make a trade is for Giannis, Shai, Doncic, Kawhi, Jokic anything outside of that they all suck....That is so far from reality with what we could even get in a trade because we lack the attractive assets to even trade for these kind of players to begin with....Let alone them even being available....

Chances are if a trade is made for a player it will be for one of these flawed guys Morant/Ball/Sabonis/AD/Trae type of players....Idek if we have the assets to get that trade done....We will see how it goes though...

I remember that!!

What a huge joke that was, a top SG was some how a bad player haha

Donovan was expensive. Markkanen is a comparable player in value right now. The trade took Markkanen, Ochai, Sexton, three 1sts and two 1st round swaps. He's currently making 46 M, is a weak defender and has led his team to the 1st and 2nd round in the last three years (underachieving based on their roster). They currently have a similar record as us while being deprived of picks. Would you take Cleveland's situation over ours right now? Their team salary is $231,130,835 without pick control until 2030...ours is $188,430,978.

Durant is 37. There is a 1-2 year window to compete with him and our team (minus the two starters we would trade for Durant) isn't ready, nor does it have a lot of assets to make a follow up trade for more help. So what would be the point of giving up assets for KD? Trading long-term rotation players and picks for two years of 1st round exits sounds pretty dumb.

Last year, Houston ended up 2nd in the WC, 4th overall. This year thus far, they're 4th in the WC and 6th overall.

Scottie has never made it past the first round so should we trade him away for a basket of balls.

I'm not sure what people are trying to suggest when they say pass on trading for all-stars.

If you look at the top teams right now:

OKC - They did not think SGA was going to be a perrenial MVP. No one saw that nor did mister Presti. A lot of people also passed on Jalen Williams. Take out SGA and that is maybe a 2nd round team at best.

Denver - 30 teams all passed on Jokic, meaning people didn't expect him to be this good either. So its another anomaly case.

SAS - Wemby is a once 3 decades talent. We could have tanked, but doesn't mean we get Wemby. SAS without Wemby is another 2 rounder at best.

The only team that I can defend the slowly build with talent argument is Houston. They have drafted smartly and sold Harden at peak. Trading Harden was heavily criticized by many and in between they did the Westbrook experiment as well that failed. They drafted very well with Amen and Sengun. Those were both home runs at the spot they were selected. They got lucky that they got the Shepard pick. Smith was a high lotto pick and I would say has underperformed thus far, but is decent, guys like Eason are good, but all-in-all they are the only team that is keep the talent and picks strategy.

So I think if you want to be top 4 its not that easy you need to take some risks.

[Thaddy]

I hope we are just jacking up the trade value of Davis so the Hawks end up overpaying. A part of me wants to dump IQ, Dick and Poeltl but Davis would probably be a nightmare. Other than a minor trade like Agbaji + 2nd for Sharpe or Richards for tax relief we shouldn't make any moves.

IQ will likely hit his open 3s sooner rather than later, Dick has shown development on defense and other parts of his game. Poeltl has been injured and isn't someone you'd consider to be old.

In terms of best case scenario. I'm glad the struggling players are IQ and Poeltl rather than Barnes or Ingram. I have a feeling we will surge in the 2nd half of the season as they adjust, get healthier, and the chemistry settles in.

[RoteSchroder]

I remember that!!

What a huge joke that was, a top SG was some how a bad player haha

Donovan was expensive. Markkanen is a comparable player in value right now. The trade took Markkanen, Ochai, Sexton, three 1sts and two 1st round swaps. He's currently making 46 M, is a weak defender and has led his team to the 1st and 2nd round in the last three years (underachieving based on their roster). They currently have a similar record as us while being deprived of picks. Would you take Cleveland's situation over ours right now? Their team salary is $231,130,835 without pick control until 2030...ours is $188,430,978.

Durant is 37. There is a 1-2 year window to compete with him and our team (minus the two starters we would trade for Durant) isn't ready, nor does it have a lot of assets to make a follow up trade for more help. So what would be the point of giving up assets for KD? Trading long-term rotation players and picks for two years of 1st round exits sounds pretty dumb.

Last year, Houston ended up 2nd in the WC, 4th overall. This year thus far, they're 4th in the WC and 6th overall.

Scottie has never made it past the first round so should we trade him away for a basket of balls.

I'm not sure what people are trying to suggest when they say pass on trading for all-stars.

If you look at the top teams right now:

OKC - They did not think SGA was going to be a perrenial MVP. No one saw that nor did mister Presti. A lot of people also passed on Jalen Williams. Take out SGA and that is maybe a 2nd round team at best.

Denver - 30 teams all passed on Jokic, meaning people didn't expect him to be this good either. So its another anomaly case.

SAS - Wemby is a once 3 decades talent. We could have tanked, but doesn't mean we get Wemby. SAS without Wemby is another 2 rounder at best.

The only team that I can defend the slowly build with talent argument is Houston. They have drafted smartly and sold Harden at peak. Trading Harden was heavily criticized by many and in between they did the Westbrook experiment as well that failed. They drafted very well with Amen and Sengun. Those were both home runs at the spot they were selected. They got lucky that they got the Shepard pick. Smith was a high lotto pick and I would say has underperformed thus far, but is decent, guys like Eason are good, but all-in-all they are the only team that is keep the talent and picks strategy.

So I think if you want to be top 4 its not that easy you need to take some risks.

What does your post have anything to do with mine and how does it counter anything I said.

[TGM]

Donovan was expensive. Markkanen is a comparable player in value right now. The trade took Markkanen, Ochai, Sexton, three 1sts and two 1st round swaps. He's currently making 46 M, is a weak defender and has led his team to the 1st and 2nd round in the last three years (underachieving based on their roster). They currently have a similar record as us while being deprived of picks. Would you take Cleveland's situation over ours right now? Their team salary is $231,130,835 without pick control until 2030...ours is $188,430,978.

Durant is 37. There is a 1-2 year window to compete with him and our team (minus the two starters we would trade for Durant) isn't ready, nor does it have a lot of assets to make a follow up trade for more help. So what would be the point of giving up assets for KD? Trading long-term rotation players and picks for two years of 1st round exits sounds pretty dumb.

Last year, Houston ended up 2nd in the WC, 4th overall. This year thus far, they're 4th in the WC and 6th overall.

Scottie has never made it past the first round so should we trade him away for a basket of balls.

I'm not sure what people are trying to suggest when they say pass on trading for all-stars.

If you look at the top teams right now:

OKC - They did not think SGA was going to be a perrenial MVP. No one saw that nor did mister Presti. A lot of people also passed on Jalen Williams. Take out SGA and that is maybe a 2nd round team at best.

Denver - 30 teams all passed on Jokic, meaning people didn't expect him to be this good either. So its another anomaly case.

SAS - Wemby is a once 3 decades talent. We could have tanked, but doesn't mean we get Wemby. SAS without Wemby is another 2 rounder at best.

The only team that I can defend the slowly build with talent argument is Houston. They have drafted smartly and sold Harden at peak. Trading Harden was heavily criticized by many and in between they did the Westbrook experiment as well that failed. They drafted very well with Amen and Sengun. Those were both home runs at the spot they were selected. They got lucky that they got the Shepard pick. Smith was a high lotto pick and I would say has underperformed thus far, but is decent, guys like Eason are good, but all-in-all they are the only team that is keep the talent and picks strategy.

So I think if you want to be top 4 its not that easy you need to take some risks.

What does your post have anything to do with mine and how does it counter anything I said.

Hey bro, response wasn't directed at you, but just conveniently responded to the last post relating to some of the folks above hating on some of the players being made available for trade right now. Don't disagree that you shouldn't mortgage the future for one player unless they are legitimately impactful, but also, cannot wait out for luck to turn the team into a contender.

[TGM]

I hope we are just jacking up the trade value of Davis so the Hawks end up overpaying. A part of me wants to dump IQ, Dick and Poeltl but Davis would probably be a nightmare. Other than a minor trade like Agbaji + 2nd for Sharpe or Richards for tax relief we shouldn't make any moves.

IQ will likely hit his open 3s sooner rather than later, Dick has shown development on defense and other parts of his game. Poeltl has been injured and isn't someone you'd consider to be old.

In terms of best case scenario. I'm glad the struggling players are IQ and Poeltl rather than Barnes or Ingram. I have a feeling we will surge in the 2nd half of the season as they adjust, get healthier, and the chemistry settles in.

Davis I do agree is sort of an Eric Lindros type of trade. Unless the price is 20 cents on the dollar. I think its going to be hard to stomach. I'm in the Sabonis wagon, but once again there hasn't really been any confirmation on what a Sabonis package would look like.

Also, I see RJ in a lot of proposed deals. I think we are underpricing RJs value by a lot. He might not be the best player in the deal, but I do feel like he is being treated like a salary toss in, when he is way more than that.

[YogurtProducer]

Agree we shouldn’t be playing for the middle. Given that we have Scottie we aren’t going to tear it down and rebuild so it makes the whole direction pretty easy. The issue with most fans is people want top 10 players at top 30 value. Just doesn’t happen cause top 10 players rarely come on the market.

The Raps are not in a horrible situation, but also not in the best like a SA or OKC. Let me lay out realistic options on how they compete.

1. Push the chips in and mortgage the next 5-6 years on someone like Giannis. You pretty much hope Barnes, Giannis and Ingram along with some role players can win you a chip. It’s a strong team, but not sure if we are top 4 in the league. I would probably do it.

2. You trade for reclamation projects that are undervalued due to their team taking a different direction. Reclamation projects come in two groups, guys buried in depth and stars that are on teams just not looking to compete and need to fire sale. Sabonis, Ja, Sharpe, White, Monk, Kyrie, Gafford are some players that fall in that group. Just think when th Bulls dealt Markanen to the Jazz or when the Cavs dealt Sexton. These are quality players at fractional prices.

3. Value snipe as a 3rd team in big trades. Nets, OKC and Jazz are absolutely rapists when it comes to this. They always find a way to absorb large salaries that are partially reclamation projects with potential while gaining draft capital. They usually do it by cycling expiring contracts in return or provide cap space absorption.

4. Roll the dice on high risk high reward stars. Davis, Young, LaMelo. These are guys that come at a 50% discount because of injury, contract demands, etc… I personally feel this group you stay away unless it is 30 cents on the dollar.


Option 1 gives you the most certainty but if it fails you set the team back several years and will need to be ready for a full rebuild. It is a more sensible strategy for free agent attractive markets as even though they gift up assets they can always pick back up tier 1 players at no cost. Miami, GS, LA, NY are teams that fall in that category.

Option 2 is really what makes the most sense for the Raptors. Get a guy like Sabonis who won’t cost a kings ransom. You are a competitive playoff team. You bam on improvement across your roster and keep liquid enough to still pull off an option 1 move when ready.

Option 3 is another one, but it would need to be something where Giannis is going to NY and they need to move someone like Towns but the Bucks not wanting Towns and prefer pics and younger players back.

Option 4 is just not the type of deal we can risk unless the price is absolutely low. If it means giving up a few of our larger contracts, IQ, Jak and 1 first rounder and a bench player like Dick sure, but anything that needs two starters, 2 first a CMB and Dick should be avoided. Such a trade can absolutely blow up and the team is caught in limbo and out of assets to make a meaningful move going forward.

Yep i think Raptor fans tend to say every player that is on the trade market sucks.....Donovan Mitchell when he was on the market "Sucked and shot chucker" , KD "Sucks and old can't lead a team", All these guys on the market now no one likes....

Giannis would obviously be the one guy who could actually make us legit contenders but the only way he comes here is if he hand picks us as the destination he wants to come to because we would not have the assets to win in a trade for him anyways....Rockets/Spurs/Okc easily outbid us....Prolly other teams could as well we lack alot of enticing assets outside of Barnes for that kind of a player....

I think Raptors fans want to play the "Lets compete" but think every player thats not on the Raptors suck.....Or in Raptors fans minds the only way we make a trade is for Giannis, Shai, Doncic, Kawhi, Jokic anything outside of that they all suck....That is so far from reality with what we could even get in a trade because we lack the attractive assets to even trade for these kind of players to begin with....Let alone them even being available....

Chances are if a trade is made for a player it will be for one of these flawed guys Morant/Ball/Sabonis/AD/Trae type of players....Idek if we have the assets to get that trade done....We will see how it goes though...

I remember that!!

What a huge joke that was, a top SG was some how a bad player haha

The discussion was way more nuanced than either of you remember.

The argument was that giving up 6 picks (Agbaji who was just selected, + 3 future firsts, + 2 swaps), and decent young pieces (like Lauri) was a risky AF move for a guy who was already upset in a small market (Utah) and could just bail in 24 months (or so, cant remember the exact time line).

It was just a really big risky move to take for a guy who was not a tier 1 star. They've had some good seasons so its hard to say it didnt work out, but had Mitchell bailed it would have been catastrophic for them.

[RoteSchroder]

Scottie has never made it past the first round so should we trade him away for a basket of balls.

I'm not sure what people are trying to suggest when they say pass on trading for all-stars.

If you look at the top teams right now:

OKC - They did not think SGA was going to be a perrenial MVP. No one saw that nor did mister Presti. A lot of people also passed on Jalen Williams. Take out SGA and that is maybe a 2nd round team at best.

Denver - 30 teams all passed on Jokic, meaning people didn't expect him to be this good either. So its another anomaly case.

SAS - Wemby is a once 3 decades talent. We could have tanked, but doesn't mean we get Wemby. SAS without Wemby is another 2 rounder at best.

The only team that I can defend the slowly build with talent argument is Houston. They have drafted smartly and sold Harden at peak. Trading Harden was heavily criticized by many and in between they did the Westbrook experiment as well that failed. They drafted very well with Amen and Sengun. Those were both home runs at the spot they were selected. They got lucky that they got the Shepard pick. Smith was a high lotto pick and I would say has underperformed thus far, but is decent, guys like Eason are good, but all-in-all they are the only team that is keep the talent and picks strategy.

So I think if you want to be top 4 its not that easy you need to take some risks.

What does your post have anything to do with mine and how does it counter anything I said.

Hey bro, response wasn't directed at you, but just conveniently responded to the last post relating to some of the folks above hating on some of the players being made available for trade right now. Don't disagree that you shouldn't mortgage the future for one player unless they are legitimately impactful, but also, cannot wait out for luck to turn the team into a contender.

Ok gotcha

Getting stars for cheap (Ingram, technically Kawhi) or getting unproven, budding stars (Shai, Haliburton, even Bucks getting Middleton was a steal from what I remember) seems like a good way to go. Take the opportunity when it’s there.

Don’t go for:

1) players who take a ton of assets to get, unless they’re really impactful

2) mid-tier stars aging out (barring they come cheap and have a palatable contract)

3) highly flawed “stars” (e.g. Trae) who have no way of overcoming their flaw

Of the rumoured players, I’d probably only look at Sabonis and Ball. Mainly looking at Sabonis’s defense and price tag, and for Ball, whether he can mature, be reined in, and change his game.

Morant, I hear is a bad defender and his poor perimeter shooting makes him a tough fit offensively.