Stand pat? trade for has been star? All in?

[AreBe]

This is an exceedingly insightful post, in my view, and I think there should be a 5th option - DO NOTHING! DO NOT TRADE KIDS AND PICKS- we are more than a player away- getting a player costs us roster players, kids and picks- ALWAYS MADATRALLY FAILS! Still, I think this analysis is brilliant:

The one thing that annoys me about all the people that advocate for playing the middle.....Any player that is on the market "Sucks and we should not trade for"....Ball, No he sucks and is stupid don't want, Morant he sucks and is no good, AD too old and sucks, Sabonis sucks and bad....

I mean these are the reality of trades and players that you are most likely trading for when you have the limited assets like we have accumulated over the years....If you want to compete these are the type of players, Flawed stars you are trading for...

You can't be cheering for team mid while also not wanting to trade anyone and continue to build on two timelines, The Young rebuild timeline + the win now timeline....You have to pick a lane because trying to do both will end up in a bad result....

Playing the middle....Chances of you trading for a legit first option franchise player is most likely not happening so you can not be that picky....

And thats even if we have assets these teams even like....Being rumoured to these players means NOTHING in actual trade talks because these teams might hate what we have to offer...

Agree we shouldn’t be playing for the middle. Given that we have Scottie we aren’t going to tear it down and rebuild so it makes the whole direction pretty easy. The issue with most fans is people want top 10 players at top 30 value. Just doesn’t happen cause top 10 players rarely come on the market.

The Raps are not in a horrible situation, but also not in the best like a SA or OKC. Let me lay out realistic options on how they compete.

1. Push the chips in and mortgage the next 5-6 years on someone like Giannis. You pretty much hope Barnes, Giannis and Ingram along with some role players can win you a chip. It’s a strong team, but not sure if we are top 4 in the league. I would probably do it.

2. You trade for reclamation projects that are undervalued due to their team taking a different direction. Reclamation projects come in two groups, guys buried in depth and stars that are on teams just not looking to compete and need to fire sale. Sabonis, Ja, Sharpe, White, Monk, Kyrie, Gafford are some players that fall in that group. Just think when th Bulls dealt Markanen to the Jazz or when the Cavs dealt Sexton. These are quality players at fractional prices.

3. Value snipe as a 3rd team in big trades. Nets, OKC and Jazz are absolutely rapists when it comes to this. They always find a way to absorb large salaries that are partially reclamation projects with potential while gaining draft capital. They usually do it by cycling expiring contracts in return or provide cap space absorption.

4. Roll the dice on high risk high reward stars. Davis, Young, LaMelo. These are guys that come at a 50% discount because of injury, contract demands, etc… I personally feel this group you stay away unless it is 30 cents on the dollar.


Option 1 gives you the most certainty but if it fails you set the team back several years and will need to be ready for a full rebuild. It is a more sensible strategy for free agent attractive markets as even though they gift up assets they can always pick back up tier 1 players at no cost. Miami, GS, LA, NY are teams that fall in that category.

Option 2 is really what makes the most sense for the Raptors. Get a guy like Sabonis who won’t cost a kings ransom. You are a competitive playoff team. You bam on improvement across your roster and keep liquid enough to still pull off an option 1 move when ready.

Option 3 is another one, but it would need to be something where Giannis is going to NY and they need to move someone like Towns but the Bucks not wanting Towns and prefer pics and younger players back.

Option 4 is just not the type of deal we can risk unless the price is absolutely low. If it means giving up a few of our larger contracts, IQ, Jak and 1 first rounder and a bench player like Dick sure, but anything that needs two starters, 2 first a CMB and Dick should be avoided. Such a trade can absolutely blow up and the team is caught in limbo and out of assets to make a meaningful move going forward.

[MEDIC]

I think the worst possible.thing you can do is "nothing". All of the other options are possibilities.

Moves need to be made. Even if it's simply to shed salary.

[AreBe]

I think the worst possible.thing you can do is "nothing". All of the other options are possibilities.

Moves need to be made. Even if it's simply to shed salary.

Sure--- but- no trading kids and picks, and to get rid of a mistake it costs you a pick.

One of the things fans have a hard time getting around, in all sports, is that everyone has read Moneyball. Everyone uses analytics. Everyone has pro scouting. Everyone has access to Google. Nobody wants someone else's garbage- every GM sees every flaw that we see with Raptors players- "He's no good we should trade him" is NOT POSSIBLE, as for it to work, the other GM has to be an idiot, and they are not idiots. Making trades is now very difficult unless you want to be a fool. What can happen is that teams put different emphasis on different variables - speed, size, shots blocked, points scored etc. and so GMs may rank players differently.

All this verbiage is to say that the Raptors are going to have to throw in kids and picks into any deal, and that, therefore, they must not make the deal, because they are only getting 'win now' geezers back or moving a bad contract.

[JB7]

I think the worst possible.thing you can do is "nothing". All of the other options are possibilities.

Moves need to be made. Even if it's simply to shed salary.

I would actually disagree. I think they got lucky with the Ingram trade, as he and Barnes have probably meshed better than anyone expected, mostly because Barnes has been so willing to defer to BI on offence.

I think right now, they just need to continue to build value in their players, with more consistent winning, and play. They also have all of their draft picks, and generally have been one of the better teams at drafting. They just need to continue to build their asset base, and prep for a future deal.

Their contract situation is not as bad as it has been made out by the media, and their early season success has quieted all of those concerns.

The only real contract problem could be Yak, if he does have long term back issues, but if that is the case, no team is trading for him.

All of the other contracts are manageable.

[Raps in 4]

Buy low, like Portland did with Deni.

[earthtone]

I think the worst possible.thing you can do is "nothing". All of the other options are possibilities.

Moves need to be made. Even if it's simply to shed salary.

I would actually disagree. I think they got lucky with the Ingram trade, as he and Barnes have probably meshed better than anyone expected, mostly because Barnes has been so willing to defer to BI on offence.

I think right now, they just need to continue to build value in their players, with more consistent winning, and play. They also have all of their draft picks, and generally have been one of the better teams at drafting. They just need to continue to build their asset base, and prep for a future deal.

Their contract situation is not as bad as it has been made out by the media, and their early season success has quieted all of those concerns.

The only real contract problem could be Yak, if he does have long term back issues, but if that is the case, no team is trading for him.

All of the other contracts are manageable.

Yah, I don't see the need at all for a major move this season, we've had an almost complete roster turnover in the past 2/3 seasons and have played less than half a season with this core.

We need a small move to get under the tax, but aside from that I'm happy to watch this team contend for the playoffs and see what opportunities for improvement present themselves in the off-season.

[ItsDanger]

Where's the tanking option?

[Def Leppard]

Overall with these fun questions, we never know what is actually on the table so really tough to say "they should or shouldn't". I trust the FO to make any moves that get the team closer to contending, and there could be lots of directions for that, getting better and getting worse in the meantime.

Any way that boils down, the players we do have, have to develop and get better.

Sent from my SM-S901W using RealGM mobile app

[HumbleRen]

Gotta upgrade the PG or big man spot if you can.

Staying pat willingly doesn’t make sense, we don’t need to see this team gel more. We already know IQ can’t be a lead guard. Our starters aren’t going to suddenly get better, this is who they are for the most part.

[YogurtProducer]

I mean the real answer is “it depends”

Any of these options are viable depending on what the deal looks like.

And on the other hand, Sometimes the best moves are the ones that never get made.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

We have to be opportunistic. We still need bench upgrades but no need to trade our
Draft picks with dick and agabji most likely out thr door

[mdenny]

Reclamation project for me. We are perfectly situated it with a balanced SL that can absorb a 2 for 1 deal. And it allows for a pivot if it doesn't work (as compared to going the Giannis route).

I've been lower on scotty than most so that probably informs my choice. I'd prefer to try something konda bold with him and then it either works or we move on and pivot to rebuild.

I'm not excited about being a team that is 10 to 15 league-wide with Scottie for 10 years. I'd rather give it a big shot for the next 3 seasons and if it doesn't work out....move on.

Mamu and shead have been huge this year and we'll need one or two more players come out of nowhere like that for the reclamation route to work. Walter still has time. CMB looks solid. So it still looks to me like it's RJ and/or IQ that will have to be traded for said reclamation (which by no means is meant to pile on the hate both players have gotten unfairly this season....it's just that the guard position is where the upgrade makes the most sense)

A high ceiling dynamic guard seems to be what's missing most on paper. This is mostly because Scotty has proven not to be what ppl were expecting on offense. So we need more playmaking from our guards than was planned on when we got IQ and RJ.

I have noticed that Scotty was given more PG duties on offense the past 2 games. I'm pretty sure it's been intentional. So they probably need 10 games (if i'm correct) to evaluate that.

[bluerap23]

Where's the tanking option?

That isn't realistic. We are currently holding home court. While I'm not confident that will last, there is a clear opportunity to make the playoffs and management would never try and tank this season, unless they like unemployment.

[LoveMyRaps]

Acquire LaMelo Ball.

[TheRaptor!]

I think the worst possible.thing you can do is "nothing". All of the other options are possibilities.

Moves need to be made. Even if it's simply to shed salary.

I would actually disagree. I think they got lucky with the Ingram trade, as he and Barnes have probably meshed better than anyone expected, mostly because Barnes has been so willing to defer to BI on offence.

I think right now, they just need to continue to build value in their players, with more consistent winning, and play. They also have all of their draft picks, and generally have been one of the better teams at drafting. They just need to continue to build their asset base, and prep for a future deal.

Their contract situation is not as bad as it has been made out by the media, and their early season success has quieted all of those concerns.

The only real contract problem could be Yak, if he does have long term back issues, but if that is the case, no team is trading for him.

All of the other contracts are manageable.

Please speak for yourself

[AreBe]

We have to be opportunistic. We still need bench upgrades but no need to trade our
Draft picks with dick and agabji most likely out thr door

And if we think Dick is no good, why would another team take him.

Every problem you see with every player, all the GMs also see and know.

Everyone has the exact same information.

You cannot trade your mistakes without tossing in a sweetener. We must not, in my view, trade Dick, or picks- we must hold on to our kids and picks. Mandatory, in my view-

This year we are first-round cannon fodder, and that is ok. We must not be 'all in' to win a round or 2.

[JB7]

I think the worst possible.thing you can do is "nothing". All of the other options are possibilities.

Moves need to be made. Even if it's simply to shed salary.

I would actually disagree. I think they got lucky with the Ingram trade, as he and Barnes have probably meshed better than anyone expected, mostly because Barnes has been so willing to defer to BI on offence.

I think right now, they just need to continue to build value in their players, with more consistent winning, and play. They also have all of their draft picks, and generally have been one of the better teams at drafting. They just need to continue to build their asset base, and prep for a future deal.

Their contract situation is not as bad as it has been made out by the media, and their early season success has quieted all of those concerns.

The only real contract problem could be Yak, if he does have long term back issues, but if that is the case, no team is trading for him.

All of the other contracts are manageable.

Please speak for yourself

You don’t think they have brought out the best in each of their games?

BI focuses on O, and Scottie is allowed to focus more on D. BI does the one thing Scottie cannot do - clutch scorer.

[ConSarnit]

I would only tinker around the edges (maybe trade a 2nd or 2 and Agbaji/Dick) to try and bolster the bench.

Barring a trade for a star this team isn’t going anywhere trading a 1st (or anything of similar value). Just hold the fort, make the playoffs and hopefully sneak into the 2nd round.

RJ and Ingram are both in their final years next season. We don’t need another Poeltl/FVV scenario where we trade a 1st only to have it blow up in our face because one of our key guys walks for nothing.

Let this team play it out for the most part. No one is going to want to take on Poeltl’s deal right now (we have to hope he gets healthy) and it’s debatable whether IQ has positive value either. A Poeltl upgrade (at this very moment) will cost us more than it should because part of the price will be to dump him.

[AreBe]

Where's the tanking option?

That isn't realistic. We are currently holding home court. While I'm not confident that will last, there is a clear opportunity to make the playoffs and management would never try and tank this season, unless they like unemployment.

Our biggest problem is ownership- ownership is notorious for instant maximum profit, right now, right away or we can your ass and bring in someone who will bring in immediate maximum profit. Sadly, it does not work that way.

That is to say, ownership cannot stomach tanking - ownership is not the same as the Blue Jays but must learn from the Blue Jays' mistakes and lessons, in particular, it is OK to NOT have have maxmium and immediate profits but delayed gratification and to not have immidate and maximum proffits from the sports team, but use the sports team t drive other areas of the business. Current Raptors ownership has a long history of having exceedingly little patience and being very quick to ass can the C suites for something other than immediate growth and fantastic returns.

That is to say- I accuse the current ownership group of not being able to have the patience to see through a rebuild as it requires sacrificing financial returns today, maybe even have likley losses. So, no required tank.

[ConSarnit]

I would actually disagree. I think they got lucky with the Ingram trade, as he and Barnes have probably meshed better than anyone expected, mostly because Barnes has been so willing to defer to BI on offence.

I think right now, they just need to continue to build value in their players, with more consistent winning, and play. They also have all of their draft picks, and generally have been one of the better teams at drafting. They just need to continue to build their asset base, and prep for a future deal.

Their contract situation is not as bad as it has been made out by the media, and their early season success has quieted all of those concerns.

The only real contract problem could be Yak, if he does have long term back issues, but if that is the case, no team is trading for him.

All of the other contracts are manageable.

Please speak for yourself

You don’t think they have brought out the best in each of their games?

BI focuses on O, and Scottie is allowed to focus more on D.

Barnes maybe (though I never bought the argument that he couldn’t give full effort prior because his offensive load was “too high”). I feel like his defense would have developed either way but I could maybe see how Ingram has helped.

Ingram is exactly the same guy he’s always been. 22/6/4 on 56 TS%. This season could be any of his NOP seasons.