PG (Atl): Raps take Hawk Two-Ah in Toronto (25/26 edition)

[mihaic]

I'm interested in Trae because of the player option and the shorter term along with either a first round pick and/or Risacher. I can care less if he leaves a free agent. But we can clean up the cap sheet by getting off of IQ and/or Jak's contracts sooner.

I disagree, it's a bad trade in my opinion. You give a C which you need against big bodies, IQ (playable but overpaid) and a prospect in Dick for a professional loser (empty stats, what he gives you on O he loses on D).

I prefer we stand pat.

Only deal I'd consider is IQ, Ochai, Gradey + SRP Compensation

That's significantly better.

Washington wants to give McCollum expiring and no compensation by the way for Trae.

[Madvillainy2004]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

[YogurtProducer]

Don't care if it's Walter or Dick but we gotta get one of them outta here ASAP. They are never good together and to my memory, the only times either of them were good on a more consistent basis was when the other guy was a non-factor. IMO only thing they do is get in each other's way. Like today in 4th quarter, Dick's having a good game and we are in key stretch in the 4th, there's no viable reason to have Walter switched into the game. But even when one guy's playing real well, Darko's gotta put the other guy in there for obligatory 2 minutes not within flow of anything.

Just pick a guy and get the other guy out. Not like we don't have 3~4 other backup SG's to step in.

Agreed.

It's just so odd how their plus/minus is so different given Walter has a better 3pt%.

Gradey somehow wins his minutes when not with Walter. Walter seems to somehow always lose his regardless who he plays with.

Probably some reversion to the mean as well, last year Walter was pretty bad but still had some decent on court and on/off splits for a really bad team.

Dick has also benefitted from teams shooting the 3 horribly in his minutes. 29% to be exact. That’s just variance and has nothing to do with Dick lol

[MoneyBall]

I was at the game tonight. It was fun, but our fans don’t cheer like they used to. The atmosphere was kind of sad compared to some games I've been to in the past.

[Godaddycurse]

I'm interested in Trae because of the player option and the shorter term along with either a first round pick and/or Risacher. I can care less if he leaves a free agent. But we can clean up the cap sheet by getting off of IQ and/or Jak's contracts sooner.

I disagree, it's a bad trade in my opinion. You give a C which you need against big bodies, IQ (playable but overpaid) and a prospect in Dick for a professional loser (empty stats, what he gives you on O he loses on D).

I prefer we stand pat.

Only deal I'd consider is IQ, Ochai, Gradey + SRP Compensation

you want to pay the tax for trae?

[LoveMyRaps]

Not on the contract he has. I want no part of Trae, at this point in his career he is the worse player imo. Would not touch.

Trae if 5 years ago? Sure but he's not there anymore. Look at Hawks record with him in.
At this point in his career he should be a sixth man but he won't take that role.

Trae on an expiring contract is better than Poeltl’s situation of being paid 28mil for the next 3 years.

And talent wise Trae is severals tiers above Poeltl.

lol and then you’ll go back to complaining we don’t have a 5.

When did I say trade Poeltl for Trae?

I was responding to the poster that said Poeltl is better than Trae.

Please consider the full context next time.

[Tor_Raps]

Walter is now -103 on the season.

Our next worse rotation guy is Ochai at -10.

Dick is +73....4th best on the team.

At some point isn't it clear that Walter is an issue and kills almost every lineup, regardless what he shoots from 3?

This is why +/- is useless.

Walter is good defensively and shoots the 3 alright. He’s far from a negative in his role.

How have you been raptor basketball all season and not seen how bad Walter has been? There are various aspects of basketball that you need to impact unless you provide elite production in a few.

Walter does none of these things at this time. Its very obvious why majority of lineups with him falter.

[PushDaRock]

I disagree, it's a bad trade in my opinion. You give a C which you need against big bodies, IQ (playable but overpaid) and a prospect in Dick for a professional loser (empty stats, what he gives you on O he loses on D).

I prefer we stand pat.

Only deal I'd consider is IQ, Ochai, Gradey + SRP Compensation

you want to pay the tax for trae?

It's not my money, so why not?

There's probably still a move or 2 to get below the tax anyways if they really prioritized doing it.

[Tripod]

Walter is now -103 on the season.

Our next worse rotation guy is Ochai at -10.

Dick is +73....4th best on the team.

At some point isn't it clear that Walter is an issue and kills almost every lineup, regardless what he shoots from 3?

This is why +/- is useless.

Walter is good defensively and shoots the 3 alright. He’s far from a negative in his role.

Is it useless when it's a trend?

So just a fluke that Walter is -93 worse than our next worse guy? Come on.

[mihaic]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

I think he is misused. That's why Shead is a better closer. Quick is not a PG. That lack of clock awareness on our 24 sec violation was laughable, a PG should feel the clock. The problem is we must play him at PG cause we have only Shead.

Quick would look realy good as a SG alongside a tall pg like Cade.

[YogurtProducer]

Trae on an expiring contract is better than Poeltl’s situation of being paid 28mil for the next 3 years.

And talent wise Trae is severals tiers above Poeltl.

lol and then you’ll go back to complaining we don’t have a 5.

When did I say trade Poeltl for Trae?

I was responding to the poster that said Poeltl is better than Trae.

Please consider the full context next time.

Full context was discussing a Poeltl for Trae trade. Maybe YOU need to consider the full context next time

[PushDaRock]

I disagree, it's a bad trade in my opinion. You give a C which you need against big bodies, IQ (playable but overpaid) and a prospect in Dick for a professional loser (empty stats, what he gives you on O he loses on D).

I prefer we stand pat.

Only deal I'd consider is IQ, Ochai, Gradey + SRP Compensation

That's significantly better.

Washington wants to give McCollum expiring and no compensation by the way for Trae.

Yeah, don't think there's much of a market for him. We are probably his best fit for a winning situation if we do actually want him in the first place.

[Tor_Raps]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

Because there are many possessions both offensively and defensively IQ ruins. There was a reason he got benched for a 2nd rounder who wasn't even playing that well.

I swear, it feels like some people dont watch any of the games and just go to the box score lol.

[Boogie!]

Side note but it’s crazy how many players are still playing at a star level well into their late 30s. You never saw this 10-20 years ago… when guys were 36-37 they were pretty much player coaches. Now you have LeBron, Durant, curry still outplaying some of the new up and coming “stars”

[Da_leg10n]

Walter is now -103 on the season.

Our next worse rotation guy is Ochai at -10.

Dick is +73....4th best on the team.

At some point isn't it clear that Walter is an issue and kills almost every lineup, regardless what he shoots from 3?

This is why +/- is useless.

Walter is good defensively and shoots the 3 alright. He’s far from a negative in his role.

Is it useless when it's a trend?

So just a fluke that Walter is -93 worse than our next worse guy? Come on.

Eye test buddy, use it once in a while instead of just being a stats nerd. Watch some games and look at how good walter defence can be most of the time. Gradey being a +73 and him being 4th best on the team defintely in no way does that mean hes our 4th best player

[YogurtProducer]

Walter is now -103 on the season.

Our next worse rotation guy is Ochai at -10.

Dick is +73....4th best on the team.

At some point isn't it clear that Walter is an issue and kills almost every lineup, regardless what he shoots from 3?

This is why +/- is useless.

Walter is good defensively and shoots the 3 alright. He’s far from a negative in his role.

Is it useless when it's a trend?

So just a fluke that Walter is -93 worse than our next worse guy? Come on.

Is it a trend when you can look at last year where Walter had a better +/- than Dick, Barnes, IQ, Shead, etc.?

+/- kind of sucks lol

[Madvillainy2004]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

Because there are many possessions both offensively and defensively IQ ruins. There was a reason he got benched for a 2nd rounder who wasn't even playing that well.

I swear, it feels like some people dont watch any of the games and just go to the box score lol.

I watch the game lmao he had some rough possesions but was shooting pretty well and we won his minutes by like 2 less points than Sheads. In general we do pretty well with IQ on the floor EPM isnt the be all end all but on the season hes at a +1.7 which is one of the higher on team. People overreact to 2-3 possesions a game. Hes not a perfect player and a bit overpaid but hes doing more good than bad most of the time.

[YogurtProducer]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

Because there are many possessions both offensively and defensively IQ ruins. There was a reason he got benched for a 2nd rounder who wasn't even playing that well.

I swear, it feels like some people dont watch any of the games and just go to the box score lol.

I’d love for you guys to go and actually show the “many possessions” because they really are not that many.

You guys just ball watch and blame whoever has the ball in their hands. Somthing like the **** click violation gets blamed on IQ when there was 4 other guys out there doing nothing for 24 seconds.

IQ is a good defender to, so anyone saying he ruins defensive possessions honestly just can’t be taken seriously.

IQ played the first 8 minutes of the quarter, and was looking gassed so we got Shead in the game. Honestly, the rotations there from Darko was freaking bad.

But that is the beauty of having good bench players. You can roll rotations based on the specific needs of what is needed in that moment. You guys like to read so far into these things but it is still IQ > Shead and it frankly isn’t close. IQ plays more because he is simply a better player.

[mdenny]

Just an observation but I just don't think the chemistry is there between IQ & Scottie. There's been multiple times throughout the season where you see Scottie visibly frustrated with IQ's decision making as a PG.

I hadn't really noticed it before tbh. But that play with 5 minutes left when IQ got kinda shoved out of bounds under the net and turned the ball over.....scott was near center court with his hands turned out the whole time and then motioned for IQ to have used his screen earlier in the play going up the court.

Shead subbed in around 30 seconds later. But it's also easy to read too much into this stuff.

id like to see the play again. I remember watching it thinking whoever was the close corner didn’t help the situation at all by not moving or cutting.

IQ kept his dribble alive but got kind of trapped due to that. But like I said, I haven’t been able to see a replay so I could be wrong

I just watched it again. It was Jakobe and yes, he could've done more to provide an outlet rather than standing still. He kinda flinched in the outlet direction and Risarcher read it well.

It was actually just a really good defensive play by Daniels more than anyhing else to be honest. 9 times out of 10 Iq just dribbles under the net and they reset. But Barnes reaction was definitely directed at IQ and from what i can tell....his point was "why didnt you use my screen and attack from the other side of the court". Wish i could hear what Barnes was saying but he simulates a screen and motions behind himself.

[Godaddycurse]

Only deal I'd consider is IQ, Ochai, Gradey + SRP Compensation

you want to pay the tax for trae?

It's not my money, so why not?

There's probably still a move or 2 to get below the tax anyways if they really prioritized doing it.

We would have to trade one of the starters to get under the tax in your scenario