PG (Atl): Raps take Hawk Two-Ah in Toronto (25/26 edition)

[Dennis 37]

We started the game playing IQ off ball and had Barnes running the point. Of course as usual Barnes was passive trying to score but the offense ran night and day better than it does with IQ.

The shots IQ took, you need him to take, but man he needs to be accurate. That’s his only skill.

"But, but, but, Scotties not a point guard," is what I'm told.

[reeelax]

I logged in just to say that CMB is really HIM.

[Dennis 37]

Is it useless when it's a trend?

So just a fluke that Walter is -93 worse than our next worse guy? Come on.

Eye test buddy, use it once in a while instead of just being a stats nerd. Watch some games and look at how good walter defence can be most of the time. Gradey being a +73 and him being 4th best on the team defintely in no way does that mean hes our 4th best player

I watch every game and am far from a stats nerd.

But Walter is clearly an outlier to losing his minutes way more than every other player. You are not -103 by fluke.

Of Ochai, JaKobe, and Gradey, Gradey's improved defence of late, and the fact that he is taller, is swaying my opinion on who is leaving. I think it will be Ochai.

[tsherkin]

I logged in just to say that CMB is really HIM.

Nit by any common usage of that phrase.

But he has been excellent when he's been healthy and given minutes. His offensive rebounding has been very impressive, and his reads on the floor. His finishing inside has been horrendous on the season, but he seems to be figuring it out as he gets more time. Certainly looked great against Atlanta's interior presence.

[SFour]

We started the game playing IQ off ball and had Barnes running the point. Of course as usual Barnes was passive trying to score but the offense ran night and day better than it does with IQ.

The shots IQ took, you need him to take, but man he needs to be accurate. That’s his only skill.

"But, but, but, Scotties not a point guard," is what I'm told.

He can play PG and center when needed, but you would still rather have a dedicated PG and center., especially if they're at an allstar level.

[Scizzup]

We started the game playing IQ off ball and had Barnes running the point. Of course as usual Barnes was passive trying to score but the offense ran night and day better than it does with IQ.

The shots IQ took, you need him to take, but man he needs to be accurate. That’s his only skill.

"But, but, but, Scotties not a point guard," is what I'm told.

Barnes isn't a point guard though. He can in certain games especially against bad POA defensive team like Hawks but it won't work long term. He doesn't have the consistent burst on ball and he can't shoot 3s of the dribble. He also limits amount of pnr u can spam and he does not touch paint enough for a great pg. He is great in transition though and decent advantage passer in half court which puts him as an elite #2 playmaker/passer.

Lamelo with all his open gym bull and inefficiency is still a far superior offensive player at point guard for ex.

[Tha Cynic]

Barnes is not a PG and should not be. But he can definitely be a guy who plays on ball more when a guy like IQ is the PG. We don’t want Barnes as PG as he stops trying to score

[tsherkin]

Barnes is not a PG and should not be. But he can definitely be a guy who plays on ball more when a guy like IQ is the PG. We don’t want Barnes as PG as he stops trying to score

He works well as we have been using him: grab a DRB/outlet and advance/attack on the break. Passing out of the short roll.

He isnt the guy to smash PnR and attack set defenses. We need to continue letting him play to his strengths and avoid having him endlessly chase improvement in his core weaknesses on O (like the stuff scouts said he would never be good at).

[ATLTimekeeper]

The difference is IQ can get deeper into the paint with the ball in his hands, so while Barnes is a better passer and decision maker, it's still typically bad offense because he can't get two feet into the paint easily. The bad fit with IQ likely has to do with this gap. Neither really serve the team as a lead ballhandler, but as a complimentary piece.

[ArthurVandelay]

I really thought ATL had a good offseason. I thought they were going to make noise. Maybe they will come together post Young trade, but man we've had their number this reg season.

They took a gamble on KP and it failed for them sadly.

When KP was on the floor, they were winning their minutes, when he was off, they were getting blown out. He just can’t stay healthy but we all knew that.

He's always been frail...or brittle... and injury prone. But this is something totally different, unfortunately:

NBA player Kristaps Porzingis has dealt with Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS), an autonomic nervous system disorder, and a lingering viral upper respiratory illness, both impacting his energy, breathing, and fatigue, with POTS diagnosed last season and the recent illness causing missed games and impacting his performance in the 2025 playoffs. He's found ways to manage POTS (like diet) and has recently returned to play, feeling better despite the earlier health issues, as noted by this ESPN article.

It's too bad because he is a difference maker for that team. Regardless, yeah, it hasn't worked out.

[HangTime]

Barnes is not a PG and should not be. But he can definitely be a guy who plays on ball more when a guy like IQ is the PG. We don’t want Barnes as PG as he stops trying to score

Maybe you, and a bunch of people, but I want him more as a PG.

I think he stops trying to score because he genuinely wants to help develop the guys around him, especially against worse teams.

That makes his scoring more unpredictable for the defences later on in the games, and the playoffs.

[Tha Cynic]

I really thought ATL had a good offseason. I thought they were going to make noise. Maybe they will come together post Young trade, but man we've had their number this reg season.

They took a gamble on KP and it failed for them sadly.

When KP was on the floor, they were winning their minutes, when he was off, they were getting blown out. He just can’t stay healthy but we all knew that.

He's always been frail...or brittle... and injury prone. But this is something totally different, unfortunately:

NBA player Kristaps Porzingis has dealt with Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS), an autonomic nervous system disorder, and a lingering viral upper respiratory illness, both impacting his energy, breathing, and fatigue, with POTS diagnosed last season and the recent illness causing missed games and impacting his performance in the 2025 playoffs. He's found ways to manage POTS (like diet) and has recently returned to play, feeling better despite the earlier health issues, as noted by this ESPN article.

It's too bad because he is a difference maker for that team. Regardless, yeah, it hasn't worked out.

He would be the perfect big man for this Raptors team. Would absolutely fit like a glove. Too bad about his injuries

[MiamiSPX]

We are 10-0 against Miami, Atlanta, Orlando, and Cleveland. Yeah, we all know about the injuries, but still....

[ATLTimekeeper]

Boston gave up Porzingis for Georges Niang and a 2nd rounder and cash. It's not a surprise that Porzingis isn't well enough to help the Hawks. I thought they would win 50, but they alienated Ice Trae early and Porzingis is damaged goods. NAW has blown up for them, at least. Meanwhile Daniels shoots 19% from 3 and still can't make free throws. For a guard, he's a tough fit at that price. Looking more like a scrawny Ben Simmons.

[dagger]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

It's not just this fan base. Darko was so disgusted with Quickley in the 4th quarter that he benched him for the 2nd time in 3 games and have Shead close out the game.

Quickley has his games where he feels he has to do it all and doesn't make enough of his shots. Shead, at least, has a little better understanding of his role. Once IQ drives, he all too often tries to go all the way or puts a floater. Defences collapse on him in the paint. It's a drive-and-dish league and we need a bit more of that from IQ to keep opposing defences honest. (Small data point - despite his shooting woes, Gradey still has the fourth best corner three make percentage in the league at over 50%... we ought to make more use of that.)

[Godaddycurse]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

It's not just this fan base. Darko was so disgusted with Quickley in the 4th quarter that he benched him for the 2nd time in 3 games and have Shead close out the game.

Quickley has his games where he feels he has to do it all and doesn't make enough of his shots. Shead, at least, has a little better understanding of his role. Once IQ drives, he all too often tries to go all the way or puts a floater. Defences collapse on him in the paint. It's a drive-and-dish league and we need a bit more of that from IQ to keep opposing defences honest. (Small data point - despite his shooting woes, Gradey still has the fourth best corner three make percentage in the league at over 50%... we ought to make more use of that.)

IQ started the 4th quarter and played 8 min in a row at that point or something close to that. He needed a breather and with the game in hand/shead winning his minutes he didnt have to go back in

[JCP11]

Barnes is not a PG and should not be. But he can definitely be a guy who plays on ball more when a guy like IQ is the PG. We don’t want Barnes as PG as he stops trying to score

Maybe you, and a bunch of people, but I want him more as a PG.

I think he stops trying to score because he genuinely wants to help develop the guys around him, especially against worse teams.

That makes his scoring more unpredictable for the defences later on in the games, and the playoffs.

I guess I'm part of the bunch, I absolutely do not want him as a PG. He can't break down a defense with his dribble and finish downhill or making defenders pay for playing off him. Let him play out of the post and playmake from there where he excels. He can still grab and go and make plays but putting the offense in his hands is not a winning strategy imo.

[Duffman100]

Lmao i dont think this fanbase will ever be satisfied with a PG tbh. IQ had 16 points on 62 TS% and was +8 far from a bad game. He had 0 assists but he was working off ball a lot and we had 34 assists as a team anyways.

It's not just this fan base. Darko was so disgusted with Quickley in the 4th quarter that he benched him for the 2nd time in 3 games and have Shead close out the game.

Quickley has his games where he feels he has to do it all and doesn't make enough of his shots. Shead, at least, has a little better understanding of his role. Once IQ drives, he all too often tries to go all the way or puts a floater. Defences collapse on him in the paint. It's a drive-and-dish league and we need a bit more of that from IQ to keep opposing defences honest. (Small data point - despite his shooting woes, Gradey still has the fourth best corner three make percentage in the league at over 50%... we ought to make more use of that.)

I've been noticing the guys trusting gradey less and less. Which makes sense, he hasn't hit shots. RJ, Ingram, Quickley... all have looked him off a ton.

[MiamiSPX]

Barnes seems to have that impact on the defensive end. I've noticed players either try to get Scottie off of them right away by calling for a screen or they just pass the ball off. Haven't seen too many players try to attack him one on one.

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[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

The difference is IQ can get deeper into the paint with the ball in his hands, so while Barnes is a better passer and decision maker, it's still typically bad offense because he can't get two feet into the paint easily. The bad fit with IQ likely has to do with this gap. Neither really serve the team as a lead ballhandler, but as a complimentary piece.

IQ doesn't really probe deep though, not enough anyway. Sometimes he can get right to the rim, but alot of his probes create no advantage, rarely get the ball below the FT line extended and just burns that 7 seconds or more, and puts us in a place where instead of drunkenly singing happy holidays, we have to listen to Jack yell "clock". Jack was a coach, you can hear in his voice when he wants to bench IQ, and I think its just all the time now.

And this is going to come as a shock, but I don't hate IQ, I don't think he's a bad player. I think, as I've said the entire time him as a lead PG had always been more hope than anything else. Why we thought a guy who plated with elite PG"s was himself one, I don't know. I only suspect he seemed very Maxey like to our front office and they had visions of him splashing threes alongside Scottie as a main ball handler. But then they trade for a number 1 option to play with Scottie, and they can't commit to or quit RJ and they don't want to upset anybody, so they unfairly expect Quickly to be someone he's not. I think its been a struggle for IQ because he's trying so hard, and credit to him because whether it was the right move or not, we made him generationally wealthy. He's set for life so cudos to him for giving a crap.

I don't care who, but if they want a PG to play with SL one of IQ or RJ would have to come off the bench. I don't know who wants to take IQs contract or Peoltl without draft compensation, and I'd only want to give that in very specific deals. We also may have to part with some seconds just to get someone to take a contract to get under the tax ( wtf was the need for Temple? Who's the agents that are pwning our execs?). Starting with weak punches and leaning on a different more merit based group to close may be the margins of competitive games. Just play the closers more.

Also, stop expecting Dick and Walter to develop in the same role at the same time. Let one of them get a run of consistent minutes and see what you have, stop searching for who's hot because more likely than not they never get comfortable, play free and they're both cold. Let them make a case to stay on the floor, not run them out to see if we have a large enough lead to allow Darko to keep everyone happy. Coach's need the respect of the team, without that, they're forced to stay on good sides and keep players happy to get buy in. Darko's not afraid to let some players know, but he's got to realize that not everyone who wants to play, should. And if a guy is good enough to pull a guy for when you need to win the game, he probably should have been playing more. See Shead, Jamal and Battle, Jamison.