[Stein] - Hawks More Open To Trading Trae Young; Would Include Zaccharie Risacher In Right Deal

[HumbleRen]

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Looks like we ain’t interested, wrap it up lol

[TheRaptor!]

I mean, worst case it is a ton of fun to watch us go into a win-now mode

The scary part is though lets say Trae comes here and just has a monster end of the year. Like goes back to averaging 28/10 like he did 3 or 4 years ago. he 100% is gonna opt out and ask for a max and then we are just **** salary wise.

That is the scary part to me. Worst case he sucks and we gain nothing. Best case he blows up and he **** our salary. Is that even good for us?

He cannot averag 28/10 because he's playing with BI RJ and Scottie

I'd say 22/12 is more realistic

Who tf cares about his D when the best PGs in the NBA includes guys like Brunson, Doncic, and Lillard

you know who are great defensive PGs? Davion Mitchell and Jamal Shead. Back ups, role players trying to find their niche and value in the NBA

Exactly. One thing not mentioned is his career teammates. I’m not sure anyone has ever looked at who his teammates have been. He’s never played with a current all-star.

Take a look at his teammates: https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Trae-Young/Teammates/88934

Put his talent with a solid team and that could be very exciting.

Again, it’s all about the cost, buying low, and capitalizing on another crap situation for another team (Ingram all over again).

Thats a sorry group of ppl, if i were Trae id be ecstatic and more than happy to change up my game to play with a good team for the first time ever

[MEDIC]

His ball handling & footwork are sooo much better than Quickley. That makes him interesting. It's just....how does it fit with BI, Scottie & RJ?

Like I mentioned in a post yesterday, BI, Scottie & RJ have all been pretty efficient with their scoring without pounding the snot out of the ball. They are scoring a lot of points with 0-2 dribbles. Does Trae help or hinder that?

I think Trae's talent could theoretically unlock some things for this team....but the question is, will he play like that?

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[sidsid]

Doubt we get him but Trae Young is a much better player than IQ....Anyone saying its close is fooling themselves. IQ as a defender isn't good enough to dismiss the leap in offensive production + passing ability....A big man that can protect the paint would be the next need though if we were to get Trae which is hard to find it seem.

Trae can actually run a team and be a floor general on the court, Has better handles and an Iso game to break guys down off the dribble as well as a great passer....We would need to find a lob threat big as Trae loves them kind of players...

IQ
Dick
Ochai
Lakers 2nd rounder

That would be my first offer but i think teams can outbid us because IQ makes lots of money and is on a long term deal....If it was expiring like CJ it would look more enticing for them....I think they either wanna get off his salary totally bringing in expirings or a better young guy than Dick....

I would make that deal. It's worth the risk.....although.....I don't even see that deal as risky. It solves a lot of problems.......even if Trae doesn't pan out. Reminds me of the BI deal.

I would need Jak to be in there too to justify taking on Trae. If we're doing a cap cleaning deal, then clean it all. And the Hawks are going to want a 1st for absorbing IQ the same way the Wizards want one for taking on Trae. It's justifiable if we get off of both our long term salaries.

The Hawks get expensive, but good fitting players for the long haul along with the draft capital as the sweetener. We get everything lined up for a huge cap space year

[MEDIC]

Young is way better than IQ at point. That is enough for me already (especially if we can get some other assets). Both suck on D, but at least Young can elevate our offense. Let's do it, Bobby.

IQ does not suck on defense.

Some games he gets torched by the POA ball handler & it looks bad. There is a pretty stark contrast between him & Shead during the games that he struggles to keep his man in front.

It's not every game, but the games that it does happen....it's hard to watch.

[MEDIC]

Doubt we get him but Trae Young is a much better player than IQ....Anyone saying its close is fooling themselves. IQ as a defender isn't good enough to dismiss the leap in offensive production + passing ability....A big man that can protect the paint would be the next need though if we were to get Trae which is hard to find it seem.

Trae can actually run a team and be a floor general on the court, Has better handles and an Iso game to break guys down off the dribble as well as a great passer....We would need to find a lob threat big as Trae loves them kind of players...

IQ
Dick
Ochai
Lakers 2nd rounder

That would be my first offer but i think teams can outbid us because IQ makes lots of money and is on a long term deal....If it was expiring like CJ it would look more enticing for them....I think they either wanna get off his salary totally bringing in expirings or a better young guy than Dick....

I would make that deal. It's worth the risk.....although.....I don't even see that deal as risky. It solves a lot of problems.......even if Trae doesn't pan out. Reminds me of the BI deal.

I would need Jak to be in there too to justify taking on Trae. If we're doing a cap cleaning deal, then clean it all. And the Hawks are going to want a 1st for absorbing IQ the same way the Wizards want one for taking on Trae. It's justifiable if we get off of both our long term salaries.

The Hawks get expensive, but good fitting players for the long haul along with the draft capital as the sweetener. We get everything lined up for a huge cap space year

I guess it depends on how the Raptors see the prognosis of Yak's injury.

If they think it will heal & he will be fine........they are basically throwing away a starting C, when the team desperately needs a starting C.

And based on this franchises history, I don't have a lot of faith that they will solve the big hole at the 5 position any time soon.

[Clutch0z24]

His ball handling & footwork are sooo much better than Quickley. That makes him interesting. It's just....how does it fit with BI, Scottie & RJ?

Like I mentioned in a post yesterday, BI, Scottie & RJ have all been pretty efficient with their scoring without pounding the snot out of the ball. They are scoring a lot of points with 0-2 dribbles. Does Trae help or hinder that?

I think Trae's talent could theoretically unlock some things for this team....but the question is, will he play like that?

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I think if you give him actual good scoring teammates + A coach that preaches ball movement that will help his game....In Atlanta he was the offense....The teams always revolved around him because he never had a 2nd go to guy ever....That may also help him on the offensive end because he will not have to carry so much of the team offense which may help....Its more so his iso scoring, Getting to the rim, Floaters, 3 point gravity, Passing/Floor general that will help us the most....In the playoffs you need more than just Ingram as a go to scorer to actually win games...

Doubt we get him still though idk if we have what they are looking for (Expiring contracts) and we are prolly unwilling to add picks besides 2nd rounders....

[tsherkin]

Young is way better than IQ at point. That is enough for me already (especially if we can get some other assets). Both suck on D, but at least Young can elevate our offense. Let's do it, Bobby.

IQ does not suck on defense.

Some games he gets torched by the POA ball handler & it looks bad. There is a pretty stark contrast between him & Shead during the games that he struggles to keep his man in front.

It's not every game, but the games that it does happen....it's hard to watch.

I think it's more the lazy coverages where we get burned because he did something weird which are a larger problem than him facing an individual matchup where he struggles. POA defenders have it harder than anyone else in that regard.

[bboyskinnylegs]

aside from the defense which seems hopeless, what worries me with Trae is his need to dominate the ball and his declining 3pt shooting. His playmaking, and ability to handle the ball and make plays under pressure is definitely something that would help us. It becomes a question of what are you giving up to get him and what kind of contract is he agreeing to extend here at. If you can get him for something like IQ+Ochai+Gradey, and he's willing to sign a BI-level extension, maybe that is worth considering. If it gets more expensive than that you start wondering if you're really coming out ahead as a team. And there is still the question of if he can tweak the way he plays to be more effective.

Personally I think the perfect fit is Garland. Can play well both on and off the ball, shoots from 3 well, is an excellent playmaker that gets into the paint and creates easy looks for teammates, signed to a less expensive deal, and the Cavs themselves may be motivated to perform a shakeup and reduce their league-leading payroll for a team that is barely in the East playoffs right now. Won't come as cheap as Trae, but I think we'd be a really dangerous team with him.

Your point about easy buckets is crucial in understanding Trae's upside. His assists aren't the generic pass along the perimeter for a semi-contested shot. He produces and manufactures ALOT of layups and wide open shots (which is part and parcel of the getting into the paint factor).

Not all assists are created equal and Trae's assists tend to be on the very high quality type. The other thing not being mentioned is how good he is at the picknroll at which he's top 10 in the league. Him and Poetl's soft hands could be a great, consistent option for that.

This isn't a perfect representation of ability to get teammates easy looks, but I think it is very informative:

[Tripod]

IQ does not suck on defense.

Some games he gets torched by the POA ball handler & it looks bad. There is a pretty stark contrast between him & Shead during the games that he struggles to keep his man in front.

It's not every game, but the games that it does happen....it's hard to watch.

I think it's more the lazy coverages where we get burned because he did something weird which are a larger problem than him facing an individual matchup where he struggles. POA defenders have it harder than anyone else in that regard.

But then flip that, when it's IQ on offense. He rarely can get by his man, collapse the defense, create wide open shots for others, etc...

It's more of a floater or dribble back out and let someone else try.

[tsherkin]

But then flip that, when it's IQ on offense. He rarely can get by his man, collapse the defense, create wide open shots for others, etc...

It's more of a floater or dribble back out and let someone else try.

He's more of a spacer and off-ball guy than a dribble attack guy, yes. He's at his best when he's allowed (and encouraged) to function that way.

[YogurtProducer]

I mean, worst case it is a ton of fun to watch us go into a win-now mode

The scary part is though lets say Trae comes here and just has a monster end of the year. Like goes back to averaging 28/10 like he did 3 or 4 years ago. he 100% is gonna opt out and ask for a max and then we are just **** salary wise.

That is the scary part to me. Worst case he sucks and we gain nothing. Best case he blows up and he **** our salary. Is that even good for us?

Is an acquiring team allowed to do an extension deal right away on him?

Nba has odd rules, so thought I would ask

I was wondering the same thing.

So we trade for him.....he immediately opts out for next season.....then we sign him to the Ingram deal. 2 years/80. Giving him a chance to rehab his image and a shot at making the big bucks when he turns 30 years old.

I figure he's at a place where taking 2 years for 80 is better than risking 1 year for 47 and then risking that he only gets 30 or under on the open market. (Which is a bad offseason to be a free agent due to so many contracts expiring at that time)

But i don't know if that whole scenario is allowed.

I don’t know why Trae does that though.

BI ended up getting a rise still doing that. Why should Trae turn down 1/50 to take 2/80?

In all honesty, if you want him to opt out your likely gotta offer 2/100 with a player option to make it 3/150

[YogurtProducer]

Some games he gets torched by the POA ball handler & it looks bad. There is a pretty stark contrast between him & Shead during the games that he struggles to keep his man in front.

It's not every game, but the games that it does happen....it's hard to watch.

I think it's more the lazy coverages where we get burned because he did something weird which are a larger problem than him facing an individual matchup where he struggles. POA defenders have it harder than anyone else in that regard.

But then flip that, when it's IQ on offense. He rarely can get by his man, collapse the defense, create wide open shots for others, etc...

It's more of a floater or dribble back out and let someone else try.

A big part of this is we tend to remember the negative with our players and don’t remember when our opponents make mistakes.

You can see it in the GTs. Anytime we score = something good we did. Anytime we get scored on = we did something bad.

It’s like our fans forget there’s another team playing on the other side that force you into doing something bad and/or make a mistake and give you easy buckets

[ArthurVandelay]

I mean, worst case it is a ton of fun to watch us go into a win-now mode

The scary part is though lets say Trae comes here and just has a monster end of the year. Like goes back to averaging 28/10 like he did 3 or 4 years ago. he 100% is gonna opt out and ask for a max and then we are just **** salary wise.

That is the scary part to me. Worst case he sucks and we gain nothing. Best case he blows up and he **** our salary. Is that even good for us?

Is an acquiring team allowed to do an extension deal right away on him?

Nba has odd rules, so thought I would ask

I was wondering the same thing.

So we trade for him.....he immediately opts out for next season.....then we sign him to the Ingram deal. 2 years/80. Giving him a chance to rehab his image and a shot at making the big bucks when he turns 30 years old.

I figure he's at a place where taking 2 years for 80 is better than risking 1 year for 47 and then risking that he only gets 30 or under on the open market. (Which is a bad offseason to be a free agent due to so many contracts expiring at that time)

But i don't know if that whole scenario is allowed.

BI deal was 2+1/$120m

I think a similar deal for Trae would be smart. Allows him to re-shape his image around the league, which winning will do. He will have opportunity to get another contract at 29 with a higher cap.

But the reality for Trae is, rightly or wrongly, his image is gone in the ****. He’s not getting a max from anyone. So where can he maximize this contract and set himself up for hopefully one more?

[djsunyc]

I'm not remotely convinced that IQ is that much worse than Trae. I think people are really underselling the difference in their defence. IQ is not that bad. And I think people are really overselling how much he'd help on offence - especially when you consider the additional cost he comes with (or the additional talent that would need to be outgoing otherwise).

i really have no clue how trae would look here. none of us really do.

but seeing what darko's done with rj and implementing BI, i think there's a universe where trae does well.

i think one difference between IQ and trae is that IQ will often pass on potential shots because he doesn't have the space creating ability or because he has such a low release point. trae will get a good look at the basket and get his shot off. whether it goes in or not will depend on other stuff but trae will force defenses to adjust to him. that's not the case with IQ.

my only real gripe with IQ is that he needs to be a more consistent shooter. he's only shooting 29.5% from 3 his last 13 games on 7.3 attempts. we need much better percentages from him since he's not making much of an impact anywhere else.

[pingpongrac]

I am a fan of IQ and think he is capable of more than he has shown this season (which is still a respectable 16/4/6 on 57 TS% despite not having many great games while playing some decent defence overall) and I have generally felt that Trae is one of the most overrated players in the league — but you do that swap 10 times out of 10 if all it takes is Agbaji + Gradey as added on filler. A lineup of Trae/RJ/BI/Scottie/Poeltl (assuming Poeltl can even be 80% of what he was last year) gives you a whole lot of weapons on the offensive end while we should be able to cover Trae's deficiencies on the other end to the point where the offence in that lineup would still far outweigh the negatives on the defensive end in the backcourt. You're talking about the potential for arguably one of the most potent offences in the league with Trae and BI leading the way.

All of that being said, it seems very unlikely that we would make that move. We have been playing well this season and have seemingly turned things around a bit lately winning the last 4 of 5 games while we were near the bottom of the league the past two years. Just my opinion, but the organization is more than likely content with winning 45-ish games and getting some playoff basketball this season then trying to improve the team around the edges rather than making another big trade.

[mdenny]

[quote="YogurtProducer":****][quote="mdenny":****][quote="Tripod":****]
Is an acquiring team allowed to do an extension deal right away on him?

Nba has odd rules, so thought I would ask[/quote:****]

I was wondering the same thing.

So we trade for him.....he immediately opts out for next season.....then we sign him to the Ingram deal. 2 years/80. Giving him a chance to rehab his image and a shot at making the big bucks when he turns 30 years old.

I figure he's at a place where taking 2 years for 80 is better than risking 1 year for 47 and then risking that he only gets 30 or under on the open market. (Which is a bad offseason to be a free agent due to sio many contracts expiring at that time)

But i don't know if that whole scenario is allowed.[/quote:****]
I don’t know why Trae does that though.

BI ended up getting a rise still doing that. Why should Trae turn down 1/50 to take 2/80?

In all honesty, if you want him to opt out your likely gotta offer 2/100 with a player option to make it 3/150[/quote:****]





It seems plausible to me because Trae's stock has fallen so hard and the league ain't givimg out max contracts like it used to.

As things stand now....the 2027 free agency class is historic (obviously some of those guys will sign extensions before then but probably not AS many compared to the past):

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027

So my thinking is the following factors:

-teams are less likely giving out max money
-there are a bunch of star players set to be free agents that same summer (trae's not even top 10 at this point)
-there will be a limited number of teams with money to sign players (and the hawks arent signing him)
-trae's percieved value has fallen in two ways: he hasn't been playing well AND his archetype is increasingly seen as outdated

So combining all that together....it's hard to see him getting anything above 33 million. Especially given he's not gonna get a chance to rehab the perception in Atlanta.

So us giving him 2/80 is equal to 1/47 and 1/33. (Assuming he finds someone to sign him for 33). In addition....then he's locked into a low to mid 30 milly AAV whereas our 2 year deal gets him a chance to go market after 2.5 seasons with the raptors. Having another shot at 45 or above if he succeeds in the new environment.

My logic could be wrong....but that was my thinking on why he'd take a slight paycut next year, getting him to summer of 2028 with a 40 AAV instead of locked in at low 30s until 2030.

Things are looking worse for Trae than they were for Ingram imo. That's why i think he'd consider the 7 milly paycut next season.

-

[PushDaRock]

I mean he’s a good player, just not what we need from our guard.

He has less than 10 assists when he’s touched the paint this year. You know how bad that is for an offence that barely has any rim pressure? It’s not really his fault but on a team that has BI and Scottie, we need any semblance of rim pressure and IQ just doesn’t provide that.

It’s why Shead looks so much better when that his numbers show because he can create an advantage by getting past his defender and touch the paint despite being an abysmal rim finisher and shooter.

We’ve been bottom 3 in offence when RJ has been out, it’s not because RJ is an offensive god but because he’s our only guard that can consistently apply rim pressure.

It's hard to have it all from one player. If you have a PG that can generate rim pressure and make 3's on high volume, what caliber player are we talking about there?

What you describe....isn't that Trae in a nutshell?

At his best? Yeah, I mean there's a reason why he was an All-NBA level player at one point.

[PushDaRock]

I'm not remotely convinced that IQ is that much worse than Trae. I think people are really underselling the difference in their defence. IQ is not that bad. And I think people are really overselling how much he'd help on offence - especially when you consider the additional cost he comes with (or the additional talent that would need to be outgoing otherwise).

If it's Gradey and Ochai going out with IQ and some SRP compensation, I don't think that's significant outgoing talent. I'm also not doing the trade if I have to give up any more than that.

[Spida888]

ATL is only interested in expirings based on the Washington rumour. What are the Bulls' plan? They have a bunch of expirings that can help facilitate a 3 team deal if we're interested in taking on Trae.

Raps - gets Trae
Bulls - gets IQ, Gradey (IQ can replace Coby if they want to remain competitive, again don't know if they are planning to rebuild from scratch)
Hawks - gets Vuc, Coby, Ochai (they get off of Trae's contract without giving up picks if he decides to opt-in to his PO)